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Trump v. Bernie Debate
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Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
I will bet you a permaban that Sanders will not win CA by 30+ points.
I suppose flailing empty rhetoric, failing to denounce violence and death threats properly and unequivocally, and throwing around bullshit accusations at the DNC is fighting harder than ever...?
That counts?
Just because she would be willing doesn't mean she'll waste her time if there's no value in the debate. If a crazy person comes up to her and wants to debate how the price of Xenons on Klatu will effect the national economy should she get into an impromptu debate or make her excuses and rock out?
Ready and willing =/= always will
She has been more than happy to debate him many times when there was a point. There's no point anymore. He can vex her when she's the president.
Prodigal Son
Member
Is the difference between being good and bad at math whether or not you are willing to label the unlikely as outright impossible?
And I LIKE Bernie but he's overplayed his weak hand and is making an ass out of a graceful or productive exit
It's hilaryis44 all over again.
Honestly its not about winning anymore to me. I had accepted a long time ago that Bernie is unlikely to win. Now its about fighting for as long as he can, never give up is what I say and more power to him for his persistence and adherence to his goals. Hillary is clearly a moral red line for many, and even if he and Hillary are running for the same nomination the message they preach is radically different. If Bernie and Hillary were similar enough, I agree there is no reason for Bernie to stay, but he is just too different.
That`s why I think this debate is good. Also, Bernie has no fucks to give. I always had a feeling Trump and Clinton have way too much dirt on each other for any real effectiveness, whereas Bernie will go straight for the jugular even if Trump tries to talk him up.
That`s why I think this debate is good. Also, Bernie has no fucks to give. I always had a feeling Trump and Clinton have way too much dirt on each other for any real effectiveness, whereas Bernie will go straight for the jugular even if Trump tries to talk him up.
I have already said it's very unlikely for Sanders to win the nomination, so why would I bet on him winning 30+ points in CA?
The amount of times words have been put into my mouth in this thread by Clinton die-hards...
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Hey, if you think it's so possible, take a permaban bet with me.
Sanders will not win CA by more than 30 points. I stake my 14 year account on it.
Is that offer open all the way up until June 6th? Obama hinted that he'd be commenting on the report once he returned to the country.
I might just take your bet after more of this plays out. The NYT Editorial Board just jumped on the shame train: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/27/opinion/hillary-clinton-drowning-in-email.html
The Chosen One
Member
Megaton if it happens.
Trump gets to make Hilary seem irrelevant And Sanders gets to have one more adrenaline injection before the California primary.
But there's a bit of a risk for Trump too. He's not the greatest debater and he risks making a blunder in front of a general election audience that's starting to pay more attention.
It's also bad for Hilary because it makes her seem like the party isn't fully behind her.
It's good for Progressives though because it might generate some much needed energy since so far all the excitement has been on the GOP side.
Trump gets to make Hilary seem irrelevant And Sanders gets to have one more adrenaline injection before the California primary.
But there's a bit of a risk for Trump too. He's not the greatest debater and he risks making a blunder in front of a general election audience that's starting to pay more attention.
It's also bad for Hilary because it makes her seem like the party isn't fully behind her.
It's good for Progressives though because it might generate some much needed energy since so far all the excitement has been on the GOP side.
brianmcdoogle
Member
For people so confident, no one ever takes up my ban bets.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
Even if he wins CA, and that is a big IF, it won't be by much. So he will take a few more delegates than her, and still be behind by several hundred.
Only if it involves insult sword fights
You might be hating it but I'm loving what he's doing now. I have never been as excited for a political candidate as Bernie Sanders, and I'm Canadian, it's not even my country.
OpinionatedCyborg
Member
why don't you guys have a fist fight and shut up with this ban bet shit
they're scared of you
Saying it's "a toss up" is, by definition, not being confident.
LudicrousSpeed
Member
Let me ask you, when you wake up in the mornings, do you worry that gravity has suddenly reversed itself overnight? Or that you might have been struck by lightning in your sleep?
Because there comes a point where things are so vastly unlikely that you might as well not worry about them. "Hillary Clinton loses the Democratic nomination" reached that point a month ago.
brianmcdoogle
Member
Exactly. Word for word.
The debates were for the primary. The primary is over. Bernie will not win California. He will not win the majority of pledged delegates. He will not convince superdelegates to switch (that about 10 more supers declared for Hillary this week should tell him that). The only person who thinks there's still a contest is Bernie Sanders. But that doesn't mean everyone else has to, or will, play along.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
A toss up implies even chances. Of which people should be willing to put it all on the line.
After all it's a "toss up" isn't it?
It reached that point last Tuesday.
You don't win Oregon by that little then win California by 30 points. It does not happen.
Sanders has a better chance of winning the lotto than doing anything in his power to win. His only chance is Hillary being jailed. Hence why many people are hoping for it (some of them outwardly).
If the DNC continues to give him concessions, he's garnering support down ticket (think Canova for a start), and getting donations (can someone confirm that he matched or exceeded Hillary in Apr?), then his hand isn't as weak as you think.
There is nothing wrong with finishing the run even if it's futile in terms of the presidential election at this point.
I'm pretty sure ban bets are no longer allowed.
You think it's funny now but if trump starts building a northern nafta trench in November you're not gonna like lines at peace arch.
It is more likely that Hillary gets indicted than that Bernie wins the nom outright. And that doesn't mean much, because her chances of being indicted are probably in the range.
Prodigal Son
Member
I don't think anyone thinks that's going to happen. I'm arguing about how intellectually disingenuous it is to label that as an outright impossibility as opposed to an extremely unlikely occurrence. A meteorite could crush me before I finish this sentence. Is that impossible or highly unlikely?
As long as people have agency and can vote, any of these candidates could possibly win by any percentage. That speaks to the nature of our democracy, not the likelihood of a Sander's victory. I don't think saying that has any bearing on whether or not I'm 'good at math.'
^
Funny. I spoke of examples of being killed by random unlikely natural events too!
Well you did say impossible and you are technically wrong, being on the right side of one argument doesnt mean you are right about another. Regardless of how many bets you're willing to take on it.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
You post like a cow!
And you stink like a sow!
And this is why I want Bernie to be the nominee, because I just don't think Hillary is a good enough candidate against him.
So do you confidently believe Hillary is a strong enough candidate to win the election or is she a weak enough candidate that this debate between Sanders and Trump will damage her so much that she will lose the election?
This is an oft-repeated, increasingly thoughtless false dichotomy.
One does not have to think a candidate is weak to believe that someone from your *own party* making wild accusations can damage the candidate.
Yes, she is a strong enough candidate to win the election.
Yes, she can also be damaged by Sanders making stupid moves and creating a festering narrative of corruption, fraud, and disenfranchisement.
The two aren't mutually excusive. Your dichotomy is utterly flawed.
Why not both?
Aussie here, plus one to this. We're also in an election campaign at the moment, but it's pretty lacklustre, status-quo stuff. I am far more captivated by the United States of Rustled Jimmies right now.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
So, you think none of this, 95% of which has not been brought up in mass media, will not affect his favorability numbers? I mean you are welcome to think that, but you need to aware of them. Although by this point oppo research against Sanders is probably nill. This is what mostly freelance journalists have found.
A couple of things may be dated by a few weeks since I originally posted it.
Hillary beats him badly and that's without Republicans sneakily voting for her out of fear. Trump drives record numbers to vote against him.
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The Autumn Wind
I'm over being angry. Now I just feel sorry for Bernie supporters. Their fragile reality is crashing down and they have no idea how to deal with it, so they're lashing out and trying their best to convince themselves that everything is ok. Like someone that's had a mental break.
Which is funny, since Hillaryis44 is just a bunch of Trump supporters now. Birds of a feather...
That's a pretty disdainful view of roughly 40% of Democratic voters.
I feel sorry for Hillary Clinton supporters. They don't realize how much they're hurting the party in the long run through rhetoric like this.
This should have been a golden opportunity for Democrats to take back control over the House and Senate. Instead, we'll likely have a bitter Presidential race that ultimately maintains the status quo in Congress.
Such hyperbole.
Bernie has treated her far better than Trump will in a debate. He never touched on the e-mails. He asked for the Wall Street transcripts and she never offered them up, because they probably would show her the inconsistency of her character.
There is no doubt in my mind that Sanders will support her once she is (likely) the nominee, at the convention. Hillary's scandals like the e-mail debacle are going to be far, far more damaging to her than a Bernie v Trump debate will be.
This, x10. Hillary supporters have consistently been the angriest, most hateful people in this thread.
WOW. Good lord... I wonder if she just passed on barbecuing him because of the Dems not having control of the senate currently, and fear for making things worse there or something. Would have been pretty easy to turn him into a pincushion, but I guess her internal numbers always illuminated that he wasn't a big enough threat to bother.
What hyperbole?
It's a broken dichotomy, period. It's a logical fallacy so common it even has a proper name!
Its only fair after we planted Trump to annihilated the Republicans.
1. Denial and Isolation
2. Anger
3. Bargaining
4. Depression
5. Acceptance
*We will be fine. most will go through this stage and come out for Hillary in November.
"Oh no. Your being mean to me on the internet. Better stop Hillary supporters or I am A. voting for Trump B. Staying home C. vote third party". Give me a break. Some of Bernie supporters need to breath in and look at the big picture and not worry about feeling being hurt.
-Quite tired of the persecution complex. I'm been tired of it for a year and its still happening.
I'm sorry, whose supporters sent people death threats again?
In this thread?
Go back and read some of the threads from earlier in the year and late last year if you want to see hateful.
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The Autumn Wind
Again with the terrible math.
Not everyone that voted for Sanders has become one of these alternate reality loons. A lot of them have either changed their opinion or realized reality. Some of them in this very thread have even talked about how insane you all sound.
40%? Not even fucking close. Talk about delusions of grandeur. Though considering Bernie's attitude, that makes sense.
"This, x10. Hillary supporters have consistently been the angriest, most hateful people in this thread."
Or were you responding to something totally different?
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
Nothing says sexism like two mediocre men getting together to debate politics when they don't really deserve to. The presumptive democratic loser and the guy with no political experience at all.
SolicitorPirate
Member
Having both worked for people giving these kind of talks and being an audience member, there's not a whole lot. It'll start with platitudes about how important <insert industry here> is to the economy and their contributions to the nation. Then it'll go either into the speaker's general industry specific experiences, or a deep dive into a contemporary industry issue, depending on how technically minded the speaker is. Honestly these things are more a networking event; an opportunity to create relationships with the powerful and influential
I'd imagine the reason she doesn't want to release transcripts is that those dime a dozen platitudes can be construed as her being a wall street puppet or whatever by people who aren't used to these things
Outdoor Miner
Member
The Dems will be fine. That you think 40% of Democrats are going to sit this one out or vote for someone else is insane and laughable.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Managing relationships. The path to Dem victory is the Obama coalition, Clinton has most of it but Sanders a part too. No reason to go scorched earth. This though is why the GOP has not attacked him hoping and praying to lob that salvo and sink Sanders day 1.
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