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[kiguel182]

Again, I think people give too much credit to this Eco system/service thing.
I have yet to see any example one successful Eco system can translate into multiple devices with different form factor or input.
PS4 success didn't help PS vita with some share digital library, Windows PC success didn't help Windows phone, Android success didn't help all those Andriod micro console and Apple didn't even try unify their OS with their huge iOS success.

IOS runs on tablets and phones.

Android runs on phones, tablets, cars and TV.

Having a closed ecosystem is the way that it works. It doesn't guarantee success but it sure helps. It's the present (and future) of tech.

EDIT: And an ecosystem doesn't mean OS. Apple has their app store on all of their devices with tight integration between them and as for years. Same with Microsoft and all of their services and even stuff like Battle.net.

It's just how most things work these days and consoles are (finally) getting themselves up to speed.

 

[Conduit]

It is possible to get a 6tf system out in 2017 for $399.

Hm.... GTX 980 is a 4.6 TF GPU and cost around 450$. Let's say next year that card will have a price drop to 350$. So, a 6 TF console for 399$? I don't think so.

 

[pixelbox]

Yeah but... it's the same model as the PC. A single game has to run across various high and low end specs over many generations of hardware. That hasn't seemed to stop innovation there.

You also have to consider that gen1 to gen2 is likely to be 2-3 years, not 4-6 like we have now, so while you might think ps1 games in 1080p, that'd probbaly happen only until time frame that ps1 was getting replaced by ps2 anyway.

This is why i don't game on pc. It's held down by consoles. So in this model when do we see devs allowed to use the hardware?

 

[gofreak]

Hm.... GTX 980 is a 4.6 TF GPU and cost around 450$. Let's say next year that card will have a price drop to 350$. So, a 6 TF console for 399$? I don't think so.

AMD is a better analog. The R390 is a 5.xTflop GPU - Scorpio's might be something quite similar - and it's around $300 at retail now. That range of AMD tech might be quite mid-range in late 2017.

But of course PC and console retail prices aren't comparable anyway.

(And I think these new consoles could be >$399. Or at least I could see Neo being $499 if it releases this year to mark it out as a premium over the standard.)

 

[Bits N Pieces]

Hm.... GTX 980 is a 4.6 TF GPU and cost around 450$. Let's say next year that card will have a price drop to 350$. So, a 6 TF console for 399$? I don't think so.

If you're buying it from PC World . . . . . lol

 

[napata]

Hm.... GTX 980 is a 4.6 TF GPU and cost around 450$. Let's say next year that card will have a price drop to 350$. So, a 6 TF console for 399$? I don't think so.

And the 390x is a 5.9 TF card for 400$. it's also about on par with the 980 in game performance. See how useless this comparison is?

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

Hm.... GTX 980 is a 4.6 TF GPU and cost around 450$. Let's say next year that card will have a price drop to 350$. So, a 6 TF console for 399$? I don't think so.

Retail GPU's are singular and sold at a huge mark up. A company buying a chip in amounts of 1million+ is a totally different thing and therefore price bracket. It's perfectly viable.

Furthermore, it's clear MS have to impress if they want to improve their market share. Good hardware is one of the obvious ways to do so. A 6TF machine is a realistic upper end for holiday 2017 hardware. The price would be sub $500 comfortably. Finally, reputable sources have 'leaked' the information. It's legitimate and happening.

 

[Sydle]

Only recently we had that dude from epic harping on about how Microsoft are trying to monopolize the pc games industry. Lots of people seemed to agree with him too.

So the gold subscription will just be a lucky bag of pc & pc compatible Xbox games?

Sweeney said he's afraid they might try to monopolize PC gaming based on prior conversations with MS over an 18 month period. Then he wasn't at all aware that MS were making UWP open where a dev could sign and distribute a UWP like a Win32 program with nothing needed from MS. Obviously things changed at some point and then MS bungled communication (surprise).

Lol Lord Raptor and Durante are not lots of people.

A few free games every month for about $50 per year sounds like a no brainer to me, but YMMV.

 

[mitchman]

This would be marketing suicide imo. The specs would be revealed and huge backlash/trust issues would ensue. I suppose it could take some temporary limelite from Sony right now, but good Lord people would be pissed when things settled and they said nothing.

Marketing suicide only if it came from an official source. Currently, it's just a rumor and we all know the rumour mill is often used for marketing and to build up hype.

 

[wapplew]

IOS runs on tablets and phones.

Android runs on phones, tablets, cars and TV.

Having a closed ecosystem is the way that it works. It doesn't guarantee success but it sure helps. It's the present (and future) of tech.

Exactly, they only find success within same input method/form factor. PC and console is not nessasory within same input method.
So, I think the MAU on PC mean very little on console or phone, just like PC developer don't care how much iOS MAU have, they won't port their PC games to Mac base on those numbers.
Same goes to MS, no matter how high the MAU numbers on Windows 10 and how much they say all the device using same OS, dev won't make app for Windows phone.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

(And I think these new consoles could be >$399. Or at least I could see Neo being $499 if it releases this year to mark it out as a premium over the standard.)

Osirisblack's info has it at $499 max only if they go for a better CPU though. I don't see that happening right now. Then again for all we know the Neo might also be due in late 2017 and all the info we have is wrong.

 

[kiguel182]

Exactly, they only find success within same input method/form factor. PC and console is not nessasory within same input method.
So, I think the MAU on PC mean very little on console or phone, just like PC developer don't care how much iOS MAU have, they won't port their PC games to Mac base on those numbers.
Same goes to MS, no matter how high the MAU numbers on Windows 10 and how much they say all the device using same OS, dev won't make app for Windows phone.

You are doing a game for PC, if the MS store has a lot of clients you might as well put your game there. And then, since it' easy to port, you might as well put it on the Xbox where a ton people buy stuff too. That's how they want to work.

The phones make no money but if it's easy to port to a phone and it's already on the store anyway devs might port stuff.

Altought Windows Phone is an extreme example since it's a failure.

 

[JMizzlin]

Xbox Neo.

e: goddamn, wrong scorpio thread.

 

[...Scatter...]

Hm.... GTX 980 is a 4.6 TF GPU and cost around 450$. Let's say next year that card will have a price drop to 350$. So, a 6 TF console for 399$? I don't think so.

NVIDIA pricing though, not a custom SOC

 

[Sunset Samurai]

But..... we're only 3 years into this gen

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Xbox Neo.

If they end up coming out the same time they probably will have virtually identical specs.

 

[Art Vandilay]

But..... we're only 3 years into this gen

Next year will mark 4 years.

 

[Zedox]

You are doing a game for PC, if the MS store has a lot of clients you might as well put your game there. And then, since it' easy to port, you might as well put it on the Xbox where a ton people buy stuff too. That's how they want to work.

The phones make no money but if it's easy to port to a phone and it's already on the store anyway devs might port stuff.

Altought Windows Phone is an extreme example since it's a failure.

And with mouse and keyboard support coming to the Xbox, PC and Xbox would share all the same inputs. Both running UWP...for a dev, that's a no brainer. But that's my opinion.

 

[tiredheadcrab]

Hm.... GTX 980 is a 4.6 TF GPU and cost around 450$. Let's say next year that card will have a price drop to 350$. So, a 6 TF console for 399$? I don't think so.

I am going to pretend you didn't just ignore the rest of my post and use a bad example to prove me wrong. 3 other users did above this.

 

[Sunset Samurai]

Next year will mark 4 years.

That doesn't make it any better

 

[Nheco]

Hm.... GTX 980 is a 4.6 TF GPU and cost around 450$. Let's say next year that card will have a price drop to 350$. So, a 6 TF console for 399$? I don't think so.

This is consumer price, you can't apply the same price logic to a long term deal with high demand between MS & ATI.

 

[JaggedSac]

But according to rumors it won't launch until end of 2017. E3 2016 seems too early to announce it. People would just not buy an Xbox for an entire year just to wait for the next one.

Kotaku and Sams said Spring next year. Only Polygon said Fall.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

E3 is gonna be great!

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Kotaku and Sams said Spring next year. Only Polygon said Fall.

Announce in Spring 2017 for the first two wasn't it? All think launch in Fall 2017 but only Polygon saying announced at E3 this year?

 

[ClearData]

What's the price target for Scorpio? A 4K and VR box in a console form factor that's backwards compatible? It sounds like a dream machine but how in the world is that going to be sold for $399, $499, or less? Oculus Rift compatible PCs are more expensive than that.

I have a hard time believing Scorpio can target the specs in the Polygon article and be expected to be priced as a mass market machine.

Though if it is $600 or more than the other form factors make sense targeting the $99-$300 range, but I think that runs the risk of confusing the market place. How do you educate the market of parents whose kid wants the Xbox Scorpio and not the Xbox Streamer or slim? There will be that angry kid who gets an Xbox Streamer rather than the Scorpio on Christmas from confused grandparents.

 

[Somnia]

Hm.... GTX 980 is a 4.6 TF GPU and cost around 450$. Let's say next year that card will have a price drop to 350$. So, a 6 TF console for 399$? I don't think so.

That's not how this works at all...

 

[MilkyJoe]

Hm.... GTX 980 is a 4.6 TF GPU and cost around 450$. Let's say next year that card will have a price drop to 350$. So, a 6 TF console for 399$? I don't think so.

Do you think MS are going to pop into a shop and buy all these cards at retail, then take them apart and glue them on to.... etc...

 

[gamz]

Do you think MS are going to pop into a shop and buy all these cards at retail, then take them apart and glue them on to.... etc...

Nah. Just buy it from Amazon have it shipped to Foxconn.

 

[SneakyStephan]

Well tough luck for you dude, it will not be going anywhere. Unless MSFT goes bankrupt. Everything is riding on UWP for the company atm.

UWP is not going to take off on pc, no matter how hard they try to trojan horse it with xbox ports and moneyhatting a few developers to make uwa applications for their store.

There is a reason why outside of a few xbox ports and photoshop 99 percent of the windows store is just mobile shovelware.

No publisher in their right mind is going to willingly put themselves into microsofts ecosystem where they'll end up paying platformholder royalties (like on IOS, which is what MS is after, those billions of free dollars )

PC users are also not going to go onto microsoft's store for anything that is available outside of it, and many will ignore their exclusives, just like they did with GFWL.

Hm.... GTX 980 is a 4.6 TF GPU and cost around 450$. Let's say next year that card will have a price drop to 350$. So, a 6 TF console for 399$? I don't think so.

You're looking at nvidia flops

Xbox scorpio will not have a gtx 980ti equivalent gpu, it will have a 390x equivalent (5.9TF on AMD)

Which incidentally will be the performance polaris 10 will offer (either the cut down chip or the full chip) ,for less than 250 dollars.

 

[DieH@rd]

Hm.... GTX 980 is a 4.6 TF GPU and cost around 450$. Let's say next year that card will have a price drop to 350$. So, a 6 TF console for 399$? I don't think so.

Reality does not work that way.

The part that console maker need [a GPU chip] costs a fraction of a final MSRP price [especially from Nividia that likes big profits].

The size of the chip and the yields are the only thing that are important here. For example, 1080 is a chip of a similar size as PS4 APU. Since wafer size and price are most likely the same, this means if the yields are good Nvidia is paying a bit over $100 for each working chip. Even if it is $150, they are making a killing on each 1080 sold.


Prices of PC GPU cards mean nothing in console space.

 

[Somnia]

No publisher in their right mind is going to willingly put themselves into microsofts ecosystem where they'll end up paying platformholder royalties (like on IOS, which is what MS is after, those billions of free dollars )

You mean like they do on Origin, Steam, UPlay, GOG and on and on? Every publisher pays these fee's if they don't have their own service like EA.

 

[kiguel182]

And with mouse and keyboard support coming to the Xbox, PC and Xbox would share all the same inputs. Both running UWP...for a dev, that's a no brainer. But that's my opinion.

Yes, I agree. If they make it easy to port is hard to argue against it.

And as a consumer, with cross buy, you would already have the games if you bought an Xbox or a gaming PC. And you could even have them on your laptop or your Xbox.

Honestly, as I said before, this is a great move by MS to try and take the PC market and establish their store and it can be some real competition for Steam.

Again, it all depends on the implementation but I think they way they are handling Windows 10 is quite interesting.

 

[Ricky Ricardo]

Hm.... GTX 980 is a 4.6 TF GPU and cost around 450$. Let's say next year that card will have a price drop to 350$. So, a 6 TF console for 399$? I don't think so.

Well, that's one way to prove you're out of your depth.

 

[rrc1594]

Damn y'all savages LMAO

 

[Asmodai48]

Hm.... GTX 980 is a 4.6 TF GPU and cost around 450$. Let's say next year that card will have a price drop to 350$. So, a 6 TF console for 399$? I don't think so.

Ffs nvidia flops =/= amd flops. 980 is more like 6-7 amd tflops.

 

[Sydle]

UWP is not going to take off on pc, no matter how hard they try to trojan horse it with xbox ports and moneyhatting a few developers to make uwa applications for their store.

There is a reason why outside of a few xbox ports and photoshop 99 percent of the windows store is just mobile shovelware.

No publisher in their right mind is going to willingly put themselves into microsofts ecosystem where they'll end up paying platformholder royalties (like on IOS, which is what MS is after, those billions of free dollars )

PC users are also not going to go onto microsoft's store for anything that is available outside of it, and many will ignore their exclusives, just like they did with GFWL.

UWP's don't require distribution through the Windows Store. Devs can distribute them however they like.

 

[Banderdash]

I'm not great with hardware...

Is this just upgrading the CPU?
What about the RAM? isn't that what's holding the xbox back? I thought it had something to do with them using a slower kind of RAM than the PS4...

How much RAM does it need to get up to 6 terraflops?

 

[nelsonroyale]

What will the power draw be of a 6TF card be by late 2017 I wonder? 390x is 275 watts which surely is too high for a console? With the next iteration are they going to be able to reduce it enough? Or is this thing going to be BIG?

 

[vpance]

What's the price target for Scorpio? A 4K and VR box in a console form factor that's backwards compatible? It sounds like a dream machine but how in the world is that going to be sold for $399, $499, or less? Oculus Rift compatible PCs are more expensive than that.

PC gpus often have large markups, consoles do not.

I don't think Sony will receive much praise if Neo is 4TF and $499, especially with the threat of a Scorpio announcement out there.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

That doesn't make it any better

Ya an extra year means nothing

 

[Asmodai48]

What will the power draw be of a 6TF card be by late 2017 I wonder? 390x is 275 watts which surely is too high for a console? With the next iteration are they going to be able to reduce it enough? Or is this thing going to be BIG?

150W or less

 

[dragonelite]

UWP's don't require distribution through the Windows Store. Devs can distribute them however they like.

inbe4 wait for build jokes

 

[Ricky Ricardo]

I'm not great with hardware...

Is this just upgrading the CPU?
What about the RAM? isn't that what's holding the xbox back? I thought it had something to do with them using a slower kind of RAM than the PS4...

How much RAM does it need to get up to 6 terraflops?

The Xbox One has a weaker GPU with less grunt (fewer compute units, fewer ROPs, fewer TMUs, fewer ACEs) and the ESRAM is fast-ish, but there's not enough of it for a 1080p framebuffer without compromises (which must sometimes be significant). The XBO CPU is clocked higher than the PS4's, but that doesn't mean much as Jaguar cores are middling to weak as all hell.

The GPU in the Xbox Scorpio will be updated, but we have no specifics. "More than 4x the power of the Xbox One GPU" is all we have now. No idea about whether the CPU is being changed either, though I'm sure that will happen.

RAM is not a part of calculating Teraflops, so it doesn't matter. That being said, we don't know where they'll go on that front either. Right now the Xbox One uses 32MB of eSRAM and 8GB DDR3 compared to the Playstation 4's 8GB of GDDR5. The Scorpio could possibly use GDDR5X, but who knows.

 

[Zedox]

Yes, I agree. If they make it easy to port is hard to argue against it.

And as a consumer, with cross buy, you would already have the games if you bought an Xbox or a gaming PC. And you could even have them on your laptop or your Xbox.

Honestly, as I said before, this is a great move by MS to try and take the PC market and establish their store and it can be some real competition for Steam.

Again, it all depends on the implementation but I think they way they are handling Windows 10 is quite interesting.

I agree. To me it seems that they are taking the approach for all their businesses differently than the status quo. Xbox and PC with iterating consoles. Surface Pro is a tablet that can be a laptop. Surfacebook is a laptop that can be a tablet. Windows 10 Mobile can be a phone or a PC. Office has gone freemium. Windows 10 is basically freemium. Bash is on Windows. Xamarin was purchased to make iOS, Android, W10M development. Azure just runs everything. All of MS' big mobile apps are on iOS and Android. MS is making a lot of differing things compared to the competition (besides Azure and AWS).

What they say and do for the next 2 years as a whole is going to be very interesting. Next years E3 is probably going to be Phil Spencer's biggest E3. He's going to be launching "his" Xbox with all of his direction. It's been so long as he's been righting the ship. Now let's see what he decides what's best for Xbox.

I just hope that the hardware announcements are just as quick as the Elite controller announcement. I want more game announcements and demos at E3 more than anything.

 

[icespide]

how is Windows 10 freemium? it's gonna cost money eventually and as far as I know you don't pay for additional features (except for your privacy and soul)

 

[otakukidd]

how is Windows 10 freemium? it's gonna cost money eventually

July

 

[etta]

Why is there always this notion that Sony now have the market on lock down for the rest of eternity?

MS screwed up badly with the XB1 and damaged the brand for sure, but to suggest that it's impossible for them to regain marketshare is laughable.

There's like a gazillion ideas and strategies yet to be used in the core gaming market, fueled by an ever changing landscape of technology and infrastructure. No company owns the future.

Because PlayStation is the best place to play ;-)

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

Reality does not work that way.

The part that console maker need [a GPU chip] costs a fraction of a final MSRP price [especially from Nividia that likes big profits].

The size of the chip and the yields are the only thing that are important here. For example, 1080 is a chip of a similar size as PS4 APU. Since wafer size and price are most likely the same, this means if the yields are good Nvidia is paying a bit over $100 for each working chip. Even if it is $150, they are making a killing on each 1080 sold.


Prices of PC GPU cards mean nothing in console space.

Was gonna say this, not sure why people think its exact dollar per dollar....

This thread is getting crazier n crazier lol.

 

[Gamezone]

Is the Xbox Scorpio suppose to be a brand new console like the Xbox One was for the Xbox 360, or will it be a "upgraded" Xbox One? Will the Xbox One be able to run every game the Scorpio does?

 

[icespide]

Is the Xbox Scorpio suppose to be a brand new console like the Xbox One was for the Xbox 360, or will it be a "upgraded" Xbox One? Will the Xbox One be able to run every game the Scorpio does?

no one knows for sure but it's a safe bet that everything will be backward and forward compatible