Yeah it was a gimmie of don wasn't an idiot. Boy did they let me momentum go
Polygon: Xbox Scorpio will be a ~6 TFLOP system (v PS4K's 4.14), unveil soon, Fall 17
- Thread starter BUNTING1243
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Yeah it was a gimmie of don wasn't an idiot. Boy did they let me momentum go
KinofChaos
Banned
lol apples and oranges...the Cell had 7 SPE's not regular cores, you can;t comprare them like that. Unified shaders does not mean in pure power the gpu was 3 times as powerful, it doesn;t work that way, they were the same gen a Nvidia versus AMD GPU, same gen with 360's being a bit fast, ps3 was more powerful overall. You don't know what you are talking about, it pure TFLOPS ps3 was more capable period.. You can't compare the 360 and PS3 architecture directly as they were totally different, when Cell was used to offload GPU tasks Ps3 was more capable then 360 and we saw that in first party games, every tech analysis shows this.
From AANDTECH:
In fact, specialized hardware can be significantly faster than general purpose hardware at certain tasks, giving the PS3 the potential to outperform the Xbox 360 in CPU tasks.
Graphics-wise the 360’s Xenos GPU and the PS3’s RSX are fairly different in implementation, but may end up being very similar in performance. Treating Xenos as a 24-pipe R420, it could be quite competitive with a 24-pipe RSX despite a lower clock speed. The unified shader architecture of the Xenos GPU will offer an advantage in the majority of games today where we aren’t very geometry limited. The free 4X AA support offered by Xenos is also extremely useful in a console, especially when hooked up to a large TV.
The gpu's wwre close with a small edge to 360 lol at 3 generation difference.
Sigh - reading comprehension is such a lost art.
LOL you edit supports my argument not yours.
KinofChaos
Banned
Says the guy spreading FUD.. what analysis do you have that proves tech sites like AANDTECH wrong? Saying the 360 GPU was 3 generations ahead is pure nonsense. 3 generations would be like the scorpio versus x1
According to pure technical fact...and tech sites like AANDTECH, toms hardware etc......but think what you think.
How so ? it proves your 3 generations gap wrong and that PS3 CPU was in fact more powerful. Reading comprehension is indeed an issue.
Did you correct/address the double standard yet?
Like I said the andtech article supports my statement not yours.
KinofChaos
Banned
Umm no they don't at all. Show me were AANDTECH says its a huge 3 gen gap in GPU and PS3 cells is slower then 360's CPU, I am waiting. A 3 gen gap is massive, it's like going from a nvidia GTX 570 to a GTX 970, massive performance gap, it's simply FUD and nonsense. They were the same generation GPU, one from Nvidia and one from AMD>
But you said the 1st Parties used it?
MilkyJoe
Member
You two ever heard of derailing?
Bits N Pieces
Member
Nope! lol
The article I quoted was written on the 21st of May 2013, the day the Xbox One was revealed.
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/xbox-one-does-not-target-high-end-graphics/0115918
They had a different roadmap back then with different goals and having a machine capable of high end graphics wasn't one of them.
Don't worry though, looks like the times they are a changing
LukasTaves
Member
PS3 gpu was in a really bad light compared to Xenos in many scenarios:
- Vertex shading and geometry throughput. RSX had separate vertex and pixel shaders, and most of their processing units was at their pixel shaders. And there was another bottleneck that the vertex and pixel shader were coupled together and at a time the gpu was processing vertex the pixel shader would be stalled. This is many times brought as an imediate reason of why framerates on Ps3 were never as good as on 360, and one of the key areas where they used cell to do work.
- Simple shader model with terrible branch performance. Even to this day branch is not very performant on gpus, but many effects depended on that like DoF and Motion Blur. Motion Blur was pretty much absent from Ps3 games until Sony came with a Cell implementation (that had its own share of issues like added delay)
- Ps3 gpu was also from a time where pixel shaders were simpler so the gpu was designed around that: It worked on large pixels groups but run the same shader on that. The problem with that is that as shading complexity went higher processing power would go to waste because the gpu was designed to process many pixels at once, but the pixels couldn't be grouped together because there weren't many pixels using the same shader at once.
Add that to the fact that there were less memory available on Ps3, that 360 supported more compressed texture formarts (which makes the memory difference even bigger), Ps3's memory bottlenecks and the edram which gave 360's ROPs all the bandwidth they needed and it's easy to see how despite being similarly speced gpus there was a huge performance delta (Back in the day there were reports of bigger than 10 times the performance on Xenos in some of the scenarios above) that reflected on many games.
Of course that doesn't mean they couldn't make beatiful games on Ps3, or that it couldn't offer a similar experience but it's also clearly not how the console was designed. It was designed to crush 360 (and sony paid the price because the console was dead expensive), it was supposed to have a similar performant GPU and cell would be used to push further than 360 ever could. But the end result was that everyone had terrible bottlenecks on Ps3 and had to use all the extra performance Cell had to counter those bottlenecks.
LukasTaves
Member
That was comparing to high end Pcs though, not in comparison to ps4 (which didn't target the highest possible as well, but ended up being way better up to the task compared to xbone)
BeforeU
Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
They will literally sell no more Xbox One if this will be the case.
They want people to stay in the Xbox eco system. If PS4 launches this holiday, even releasing new Xbox in fall 2017 is pushing it. Like they need it in 2017 summer, but still fall wouldn't be too terrible idea. But pushing it to 2018? nah, Not a chance.
I can see lot of leftover Xbox fans would make switch to PS4 Neo if chatter of new and powerful Xbox doesn't start soon enough.
The more I think about it, the more I feel that this does seem like a controlled leak. Microsoft want to assure fans that they are working on the next more powerful hardware. So people just don't rush out and buy the other system knowing Xbox One is too out of date.
Since all the future Sony and MS console will be full backward compatible, containing your fanbase in your eco system is now more than ever important. Because if you were a 360 or PS3 gamer, choosing your next console wasn't so difficult knowing none of your library will go forward anyways. But if you think about it now, Sony already has a huge advantage this generation. 40million ps4 owner. and all their content will go forward with them. So to convince them to chose other side is going to be difficult task.
...Scatter...
Banned
I'm away for a few hours and you guys reignited the 360/PS3 console war. You should be ashamed of yourselves.
What I'd rather be speculating about is what CPU the Scorpio could use. Bulldozer < Excavator < Zen
This is from Anandtech:
Here's the article for credit: http://www.anandtech.com/show/9231/amds-20162017-x86-roadmap-zen-is-in
I'm really hoping for Zen cores
What I'd rather be speculating about is what CPU the Scorpio could use. Bulldozer < Excavator < Zen
This is from Anandtech:
Here's the article for credit: http://www.anandtech.com/show/9231/amds-20162017-x86-roadmap-zen-is-in
I'm really hoping for Zen cores
I'm away for a few hours and you guys reignited the 360/PS3 console war. You should be ashamed of yourselves.
What I'd rather be speculating about is what CPU the Scorpio could use. Bulldozer > Excavator > Zen
This is from Anandtech:
Well it is certainly not Bulldozer or Excavator that is for sure. Whether it will be Zen depends on its power envelope.
rokkerkory
Member
CPU will be key to maximize a 6TF gpu
curiouscharles
Member
it's literally all i can think about with regards to these new babies.
6TF EVERYTHING.
statham
Member
I agree. I really hope they dont just OC the current one.
BeforeU
Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
Why do people even think that? I mean it will be coming out 4 year after the first one. What makes anyone think there is even slightest possibility of not upgrading CPU? Genuine question.
...Scatter...
Banned
I don't get it?
Liabe Brave
Member
That's a bind, though. If they put in a mild upgrade, you're right that the GPU could be underutilized. But if they put in a highly-upgraded CPU, games that take advantage may not run at all on the original Xbox One.
Then Scorpio is a new generation, not an increment. Even with backwards compatibility that's a harder sell, both to consumers and publishers.
...Scatter...
Banned
If it's Zen cores, how many do you think we'll see.
http://wccftech.com/amd-zen-cpu-performance-double-fx-8350/
http://wccftech.com/amd-zen-cpu-performance-double-fx-8350/
MaulerX
Member
That'll be horrendous if they did that. Jaguar cores suck. We need to move away from that quick.
statham
Member
From the leaks, isnt that what Sony is doing? 2.1?
...Scatter...
Banned
Do we think we're going to see a modified version of this 4 core Zen APU?
http://wccftech.com/xbox-one-may-be-getting-a-new-apu-based-on-amds-polaris-architecture/
It mentions that it's an improvement over the current XBO/PS4 architecture. I'm thinking we're going to get something like this but with a much better GPU attached.
http://wccftech.com/xbox-one-may-be-getting-a-new-apu-based-on-amds-polaris-architecture/
It mentions that it's an improvement over the current XBO/PS4 architecture. I'm thinking we're going to get something like this but with a much better GPU attached.
I asked the same question and the answer was compatibility. It's hard to change CPU alone without breaking stuff.
...Scatter...
Banned
I don't get why the new GPU wouldn't "break compatibility" but a new CPU would. Doesn't make sense to me. It's all X86 it's not like we're recompiling from something vastly different. They will have to do something to care for XBO compatibility for sure, but whatever they do they shouldn't gimp the console for the sake of making that easier.
curiouscharles
Member
yeah, this.
if they're working via UWP or whatever, won't that api layer essentially function the way PC ones do - hence making a CPU upgrade [within the x86 instruction set] be just as possible as a GPU upgrade?
Just being a turd. Several people kept saying aandtech.
It could be ARM and UWP would work fine on it as long as they created a runtime. Which they did, since they have it on mobile. That is one of the key things about them building the UWP. I wouldn't be surprised if those streaming sticks/boxes they are rumored to be releasing were actually ARM devices.
Ya we had one whole topic for the Neo CPU.
http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=201442468
Doable if MS tools devs work double-time for compatibility, they got the brains and money.
...Scatter...
Banned
Exactly!!! With some of the stuff I'm reading folks should just call it the Xbox 2.
Voost Kain
Banned
You are going all In and assuming iterative consoles will be a hit, if things star falling apart around Sony's 4k console them pushing to 2018 with a nee box would make sense.
Voost Kain
Banned
Also the Ps3/360 discussion above, the PS3 is more powerful and designed to be more powerful than the 360, but as the Jaguar to 3DO, the PS3 had way too many bottlenecks and that power never showed with games. The Ps3s best looking titles avoiding the necks as much as possible are narrow linear scripted titles.
wapplew
Member
Only 4x improvement over the last gen? That must be most underwhelming generation jump ever in console history.
There is always some truth to rumours mixed in with false information.
so which is it? a 6 TFLOP system in FALL 2017?
or a much lower NEO esc type of upgrade in early 2017?
Something has to be said and announced but I am thining the fall 2017 is WAY to late for microsoft to make up sales. You cant let a market leader have a much better product out on the market for a full YEAR before you bring in competition.
If microsoft wants to kill it im thinking fall 2016/spring 2017 a 6 TFlop microsoft system and they will just eat the cost.
so which is it? a 6 TFLOP system in FALL 2017?
or a much lower NEO esc type of upgrade in early 2017?
Something has to be said and announced but I am thining the fall 2017 is WAY to late for microsoft to make up sales. You cant let a market leader have a much better product out on the market for a full YEAR before you bring in competition.
If microsoft wants to kill it im thinking fall 2016/spring 2017 a 6 TFlop microsoft system and they will just eat the cost.
MaulerX
Member
Well it's pretty much sure it ain't going to be a "Neo" esque type upgrade. That much I'm pretty confident in. Fall '17 is not too bad. 6TF not including CPU and RAM setup etc... is a pretty massive upgrade.
If they announce it properly they wouldn't lose current sales much if at all. People can build their library with confidence fully knowing that their games will carry over.
Primethius
Banned
An E3 announcement with a Fall 2017 release would hurt sales quite a bit. And they are already doing pretty bad this year so I'm not sure they would risk such an early reveal.
They just need to say they're working on something, give a clear plan and vision, how it fits next to Xbox One...etc.
No need for specifics aside from stuff like 4K gaming, Oculus-ready, and give a reason for people to not get Neo and wait for that. A deep discount on a nice Slim reveal will help with sales. Even if they don't say anything to not disrupt XBO sales, PS4 + PS4K will disrupt them all by themselves.
I can't see that going over well with anybody. they either announce something or they don't