MaulerX
Member
They don't have to reveal it for us to know it exists. If you're too worried about current sales than reveal it a month before Neo drops. Exiting times ahead.
Polygon: Xbox Scorpio will be a ~6 TFLOP system (v PS4K's 4.14), unveil soon, Fall 17
- Thread starter BUNTING1243
- Start date
They don't have to reveal it for us to know it exists. If you're too worried about current sales than reveal it a month before Neo drops. Exiting times ahead.
Primethius
Banned
Well, if it's largely unspecific, it probably wont impact sales much.
I was thinking more along the lines of them giving a clear indication as to the power and release date which would probably allow articles to reasonably speculate about the price point. That, plus the market domination of the PS4 already and early launch of Neo would likely put a damper on sales.
Slim would make up for lost sales but I'm not sure if Slim making up for lost sales due to a super early announcement is worth it.
If they do a basic roadmap like you suggested though, they are good. No specifics and no actual product announcements.
Don't think MS wants to reveal their upgraded XB1 model a month before the launch of the competitors iterative model that follows one of the biggest console successes. Probably isn't going to do the Scorpio much favor.
MaulerX
Member
So basically what you're saying is that no matter what they do they're fucked. Ok, so you're Spencer, what should they do?
funkystudent
Member
Yup.
Microsoft really has to be on point with their messaging this E3.
At the very least even without a announcement I can Phil dropping something like "while some of our competitors will be taking half steps into the future we at xbox will be taking leaps and we will have more to show you at a later date".
And depending how cheap the slim is I can see them getting away with it.
So wanna take bets at the XB1 slim at 299 or 250?
Considering Sony is making strict rules about PS4 compatibility, i wonder where MS is on that kind of thing?
They obviously want all sorts of compatibility between the systems, but if they go too far, making a forwards compatible game on XB1 is going to be a challenge if they upgrade the CPU to Zen
There are no generations anymore, according to MS's plans. The jumps in power are going to be smaller regardless along with the frequency of the updates
Your not seriously expecting a 60tflop GPU for the XB3 are you?
They obviously want all sorts of compatibility between the systems, but if they go too far, making a forwards compatible game on XB1 is going to be a challenge if they upgrade the CPU to Zen
There are no generations anymore, according to MS's plans. The jumps in power are going to be smaller regardless along with the frequency of the updates
Your not seriously expecting a 60tflop GPU for the XB3 are you?
wapplew
Member
No worry about compatibility, they have UWA.
yeah this makes me wonder if the obscenely powerful GPU is really just for oculus rift support and actual improvements to normal games will be limited because of forward compatibility
What is UWA?
MaulerX
Member
That really doesn't make sense Imo. Nobody is buying a console with that kind of power exclusively for Oculus support only to have regular games have a little upgrade. There's going to be a transition period where devs will target both consoles and eventually if you're want to play the latest and greatest you'll need to upgrade. I mean with that kind of power even games made for the XB1 at 900p could be brute forced to run at native 4K on Scorpio which would still be a huge upgrade for alot of people.
I'd like to know this too.
A Fall 2017 release would be perfect for me, not sure I could afford the most-likely $500 box that will be coming out until then.
That makes no sense.
They're gonna invest in a stronger box for the 1% that buy Oculus headsets?
I'm not saying games won't look better but they'll be held back by having to support the old box
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Thats probably sony reason for ths neo and vr instead of ms and the rift.
If they're neutering the beastness then no-one will buy it.
except PSVR will support the original PS4. Microsoft will limit VR support to the Scorpio
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Yeah but apparently VR doesnt run that hot on the old ps4
if you ignore all of the glowing impressions of PSVR sure
It has literally only ever run in public on the ps4, and that's the old version of the word literally.
Primethius
Banned
Slim announcement a month before release. Scorpio full blowout a month or so before release.
Use E3 to layout the iterative plan without any actual details or products but rather just to set expectations.
That should maximize sales I would think.
0coolclimate0
Member
Great, now we will a ps4 neo-2 right after.
Not sure how I'd feel about that though
MaulerX
Member
Saying something at E3 without giving too many details I can agree with. But a full blowout a month before release is too short of a time frame. You need to build hype and give retailers ample time to take pre-orders etc... Six months at least I think.
HighResTomato
Member
Microsoft should show the box at E3 but keep all the technical shit for later. Just show us Xbox one titles that are close to release. Let Sony come out with the numbers first so you don't get your nose bloody again.
Primethius
Banned
I think you can do the retailer stuff without doing official stuff to the gaming public. There will be leaks and so on but the impact will be minimized compared to a official blowout 6 months prior.
...Scatter...
Banned
I'd like to know this too.
A Fall 2017 release would be perfect for me, not sure I could afford the most-likely $500 box that will be coming out until then.
Universal Windows Apps. What they mean is UWP. Not sure that helps XBOX One forwards compatibility as they weren't coded as UWPs.
Steelyuhas
Member
Yeah it's a touchy balance of how much do you say to get people excited and compete with new Playstation hardware coming (compete favorably if the specs targets end up being the case) vs not wanting to undercut the software you have coming out for the next year and half and discourage people from buying your existing hardware.
Communicating that your software platform is at the point where you're ending what we consider traditional console generations is a communication issue I don't envy.
I also wonder how this would affect Sony's reveal of NEO. You would think nothing would really change, but they might want to counter potential sales losses just from the pure hype of having a numbers game again in the console space.
Don't think that's something that is necessary but they've grown pretty comfy having the widest advantage space in most aspects
Don't think that's something that is necessary but they've grown pretty comfy having the widest advantage space in most aspects
LowEndTorque
Member
I can see a few ways to spin it.
We're pleased to offer the PS4 "Premium"/Xbox One "Premium" in addition to our standard PS4/XB1. The premium models will offer bla bla and will be priced at yada yada. And following this announcement, all standard models will now be priced at bla.
...Scatter...
Banned
Are you saying it's just "creative chatter"?
MaulerX
Member
So let retailers take pre-orders on something that they have no clue what's inside the box? People will want to know what exactly it is that they're preordering. I think you're being overly cautious on current sales. At some point you'll want people to buy the new system and not the old one. Build hype. Give people enough time to let it sink in how beastly this is. If people decide to not buy an XB1 and wait for a Scorpio than so be it. Heck, you might even convince some people to skip the Neo for a Scorpio.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
I think releasing the Neo earlier would be an 'FU' to MS. That gives them an opportunity to release the next 'version' in early 2018. I think MS will be playing catch up from in on out.
Eh?
What's your source on that claim?
What you've said runs counter to almost every single impression of VR on PS4 by the Press/Devs/GAFers who've tried it.
They aren't going to release within 2 years. That literally makes no sense. I don't much think releasing in 3 is much sense either.
Flooding the market with units isn't a smart strategy
It depends on the price of the slim, when the new box is scheduled to come out, and if the slim offers any new functionality. I'm pretty happy with the current box though, so I'll probably just wait until the actual upgrade. The current XBO is probably the happiest I have ever been with a console design since the PS1. If there is anything I hate, it is a loud system, and the XBO is the quietest system since the N64.
Maximilian Kolbe
Member
Then MS release the next version in fall 2018, then loop and loop?
Is this arms race lol?
MilkyJoe
Member
What planet are you from? Ha ha
A new box every two years would be madness.
And if each are taking it in turns on having the strongest box, how is anyone playing catch up?
Bitch Pudding
Member
Let's cross that assumption bridge when we come to it, shall we?
Fact is, in fall 2017 the install base for PSVR will be 60mn+, while Scorpio VR starts with zero. And it will cost a lot more.
Obscuritas
Member
.
And on top of that, VR games on OG PS4 would be perfectly playable, so just deal with it.
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
If the rumours are true PS4 is just as incapable for VR as Xbox One. And the install base for Scorpio VR will be every PC with a decent graphics card.
Leyasu
Banned
Lol Taking damage control to new levels.
Source?
Which rumour are you referring to that invalidates PS4's VR capabilities?
We've had VR impression on PS4 for months now, from a plethora of sources, almost all of which were positive.
There is none, except that insider "recently" which pretty much goes against what everyone else has said who's tried it running on ps4.
Spreading alot of FUD a few months before release, not uncommon.
Bitch Pudding
Member
Sure, why not.
How is it incapable when it's running vr and Xbox one hasn't even got a vr product?
As for your second sentence, I don't even understand it. Can you explain?
This would be that one anonymous source in a quoted Edge article by a gaffer promoting his own website, right?
The one with the thread closed after several devs working on PSVR, not to mention gaffers who've had hands-on with the HMD debunked it thoroughly?
Yeah, I reckon you're both talking about that.
OT: the next 14 months until this thing is out are going to be like the NX threads they might as well have had that 'Hope' Obama image in the OP.
I guess MS thinks that pure power will make up all that mindshare lost pretty much everywhere except NA/UK/Mexico, the 'Tier 2/3' stuff etc...
SneakersSO
Member
Except, if this is a premium priced product that is meant to exist alongside the Xbox One (Its an X1 upgrade, not a new console generation), then they can price it higher & have it come with an Oculus headset.
This whole thing is to counter the PSVR & get them a foothold on the VR market for potential console users. Forward compatibility for X1 & PS4 ensures that both of these units are intended for another function that requires higher horsepower. I fully expect a Neo + PSVR sku to launch alongside a new VR controller solution I have a gut feeling Sony will be launching late next year. MS will probably have Scorpio marketed as their all in one VR starter pack, have it be priced high but comes with both the Oculus & the Oculus Touch.
Swass
Member
I doubt they release the slim at the same price as the current model so $299 is out. I would guess $250 or maybe even $230 with deals around black friday putting it around $199. With that price point people will ignore the upcoming upgraded system.
Announcing the Scorpio at E3 keeps Xbox owners and fans from jumping to the PS4 Neo knowing it's a short wait until the console they already are invested in has an even beefier upgrade coming.
Is the AMD Bobcat/Jaguar/Puma line of products dead in favor of ARM in that category? Been 2 years since Puma and I haven't read about any successor. Outside of XO/PS4 they never really got any design wins of note for the line. ~2500-3000 SPs + Zen cores sounds like a massive die.
100 percent agree with this but the flip side is nobody who planned on buying an xbox product is going to buy the Old Xbox One or the slim model knowing a vastly superior console is out a year later, so sales will tank.
I think that's just something Microsoft is gonna have to ride out, it's better doing that and having a tough 12 months or so with a Product you believe in at the end of it.
SneakersSO
Member
Eh, Xbox owners & fans are already invested in that environment. The X1 is on the market for multiple holiday seasons, they've done relatively well in the markets the Xbox brand has been historically strong in, and they've begun to reach a ceiling at the current existing user threshold their brand appeals to as of right now. Those same Xbox users are also still within the platform once MS announces that all of their 1st party software development will now be coming to PC going forward, so it can both potentially attract & serve an audience who want to play on Xbox but feel the technical performance of the platform is lacking.
The Scorpio won't be changing the console's brand appeal, not just on a message of 'moar power', which won't even be the marketing message they'll be using for this thing. Oculus VR will be its biggest selling point, its why the console is being specced so high in the first place. To be fair, pivoting towards an audience that may be interested in VR is actually a very smart move for the Xbox team.