KinofChaos
Banned
LOL sorry, just laughing at your name man. Big Green Anus.
Polygon: Xbox Scorpio will be a ~6 TFLOP system (v PS4K's 4.14), unveil soon, Fall 17
- Thread starter BUNTING1243
- Start date
Big Green Anus
Member
Is Neo still coming 2017 or is it 2016? I know you said 2017, but other insiders said 2016( at least one did)
If it's coming 2017, then I hope Sony can beef up the specs since Scorpio sounds like its going to be a monster.
Jessie.Bristol
Member
There were some people questioning whether Microsoft could deliver a 6TF console for $399. I think AMD are proving that they can launch a 6TF console at $399 if the WSJ is to be believed. They have reported that the new RX 480 will cost $199 and is 5.5TF. So it is more then probable, but a near certainty, that the Xbox One Scorpio will be a 6TF console priced at $399.
statham
Member
good chance Microsoft will be taking a loss on this console, if you don't buy any games or subscribe to live, I think they would much prefer the couple of games you do buy, you get it on PC.
Chris Metal
Member
BeforeU
Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
Very interesting.
Wow, $200. That seems pretty good.
Absolutely.
WSJ:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/amd-prices-3-d-cards-to-spur-virtual-reality-market-1464725394
A maxed out Polaris 10 would nearly do the trick, before we even get to the CPU.
However, what's to stop Microsoft from getting an equivalent-sized GPU from AMD in the Vega family (Vega 11) with or without HBM2. The advantage would be, Vega 11 probably would not have to be clocked as high or even be a full GPU with all its Compute Units / Stream Processors active.
ninjablade
Banned
So this is really happening? we'll I guess I'm gonna end up keep my ps4 and skipping neo, to get this. unbelievable that were gonna get a console this powerful so early.
And a year later Sony comes out with PS5 with 10 TFLOPS!
BeforeU
Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
ninjablade
Banned
Hmm I wouldn't upgrade though, I would have gotten neo, but the cpu seems to be a huge bottle neck for 60fps, Scorpio seems like a huge upgrade in everthing.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
For me there's something that doesn't quite add up. If there's a slim coming this year why on earth would MS announce a Scorpio for the late 2017? That's the definition of counter productive.
BeforeU
Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
Pretty much what I think since this whole thing started, can't find a single reason that works in their favor by announcing this as early as in 2 weeks and releasing it next year.
If they announce, its coming this year. No way they are announcing a product that comes next year, that's even longer reveal to release period than Xbox One and even PS4 had. Come on guys
Then 15 then 20TFLOPS by 2020
Yep if this is succesful that's how it's going to end up.
That's pretty great pricing.
d00d3n
Member
I don't think I would be interested in this. The so called "exclusives" for xbone end up on PC pretty fast these days. This may change once/if xbox starts to take market share from playstation, I guess, but in the short term people who own capable gaming PCs don't need this console imo.
Realistically, it seems the console space will be something like this:
2013: PS4, Xbox One. - on 28nm - 1+ TF
2017: PS4 Neo (early '17), Xbox Scorpio (late '17) - 14nm chips - 4-6 TFs
2020 or 2021: PS5 and XB5 - on 10nm or 7nm chips - 15-20 TFs
Being on a 3 to 4 year cycle is fine by me. Never want to have to wait 7-8 years again like last gen to current gen.
2013: PS4, Xbox One. - on 28nm - 1+ TF
2017: PS4 Neo (early '17), Xbox Scorpio (late '17) - 14nm chips - 4-6 TFs
2020 or 2021: PS5 and XB5 - on 10nm or 7nm chips - 15-20 TFs
Being on a 3 to 4 year cycle is fine by me. Never want to have to wait 7-8 years again like last gen to current gen.
...Scatter...
Banned
Cloudy with a chance of I'm buying it! LOL
My dad can beat up your dad.
he could, totally
I think we'll all be happy as he'll to have competent hardware. I hope Sony brings it too. Because when I buy a new PlayStation I want it to be beastly.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
And then you have the idea of it being a controlled leak which makes matters even harder to think through. It's bad enough for them to suddenly spring it on people later on this year (at the rumoured event). At least MS would have gotten some sales from the slim before information of the Scorpio made people think twice about buying a slim. The only way I can square this is to consider the Scorpio rumours as a strategy to prevent more XB fans from buying a PS4/Neo while hopefully sustaining a reasonable sell through for their XB1/Slim. In the mean time the XB1 OS is offered on PC and they start talking 'platform'.
davidwhangchoi
Member
so glad i traded in my ps4 early
Slim Xbox one running the same games at Xbox One resolution or fps is great for a lot of people and I'm sure it will be priced to move fast when Xbox scorpio comes out .
Scorpio will be for power users (early adopters) at first and an Oculus Rift jumping in price point. The can coexist for a couple years easily.
It can cast doubt in the minds of current/future PS4 and Neo owners, reinforces Xbox may be worth sticking with or giving a go, shows consumers Microsoft are still in the game.
A $200-300 Xbox One consumer is not necessarily the same as a $399 Scorpio buyer so they shouldn't really lose out. Same goes for Sony with Neo and PS4. They serve different sets of price conscious consumers. A user is what's important.
kingwingin
Member
But if you think what happened to sony when they tried to slim the ps4, why would microsoft pay more to keep the same specs when they could pull a neo but at the same time crank it up a few notches.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Sorry, but I don't think it makes sense. There has to be something we're missing. If people already have an XB1 and know there's a Scorpio coming next year then there's 'definitely' going to be people that think twice about buying the slim. Whether that's a low percent or not, it's going to have an affect.
Yeah, and Scorpio's GPU, even if it was Polaris 10 @ 5.5 AMD TFLOPs, is probably going to run VR better than the GTX 970 @ 3.4 Nv TFLOPs, the baseline for Rift and Vive.
3rdamention
Member
A couple of days ago, Tim Dog tweeted a picture that said "NeoGAF" and had a bag of dicks...That's it, a picture of a bag of dicks ...
I'm sure Penello, Major Nelson, all the developers and journalists, and others who have NeoGAF accounts all thought "oh, there is Phil's little friend Tim Dog.., that is so funny"
He also refers to Gaf users as "gaffots" so yeah it's very weird that Phil would even associate with him considering Phil's recent stand on how toxic console wars are...And you know what? Maybe he is a great guy, and a fun loving gamer. I dont know him, but this doesn't ooze 40 year old nice guy who is misunderstood! and is pretty much the definition of what Phil was saying.
Yes...I really hope it ends up like this, though I'd love it if Scorpio releases sooner.
StarBlazers1
Member
I'm still thinking they Release the Slim with a 2TB drive for $299. They blow out the rest of the existing units at $249 after E3. They Release Project Scorpio next year at $499 and Drop the new slim at $249.
This gives you an entry level SKU that lets you play all current XB1 and Xbox 360 BC games.
It also gives a pro level SKU that plays everything, as well as improved and possibly exclusive new games. In addition, something that would work with a VR set like Oculus.
They could announce all of this at E3 without a tremendous hit, if and only if, they are VERY CLEAR with their messaging.
Hopefully MS learned their lesson.
This gives you an entry level SKU that lets you play all current XB1 and Xbox 360 BC games.
It also gives a pro level SKU that plays everything, as well as improved and possibly exclusive new games. In addition, something that would work with a VR set like Oculus.
They could announce all of this at E3 without a tremendous hit, if and only if, they are VERY CLEAR with their messaging.
Hopefully MS learned their lesson.
Yes, all of that would be a way forward for Microsoft and the Xbox brand.
Slim is not just slimmer. It has UHD Blu-ray and 4k support (probably HEVC hardware). It's an upgrade over the current Xbox One and will likely be $350.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Thanks for making me look like I have some minuscule idea of what I'm talking about
I think that IF you take Phil Spencer at face value, Scorpio is going to be a monstrosity that MS is willing to take a hit on at $399
Phil has said 2 things publicly.
- We're here to "win"
- If we do an upgrade, it will be significant
A $399 6TF Scorpio would support both those intentions. That's not to say they "win" of course. But making this move supports their intentions.
totallydied
Neo Member
Firstly, when comparing two things of similar origins (AMD graphics cards) the order of magnitude of the gap is irrelevant in relative comparisons, percentage gives an accurate measure as this donates the difference between the two bodies.
Secondly, in relation to Neo vs. Scorpio and XB1 vs. PS4 gap comparisons and what developers can do with them, developers can only increase performance, resolution and effects relative to the percentage of the gap, as the size is irrelevant as stated previously.
Since the theoretical gap between Neo vs. Scorpio is similar to XB1 vs. PS4 around 40% the difference that would be displayed would be similar to what we would already get. This is already evidenced by already available desktop comparisons of similar architecture which show 2tflop or greater gaps giving performance advantages relative to the percentage rather than the size.
As I didnt fill like going through and individually providing benchmarks so instead I will simply link to Guru3d 1070 review which uses benchmarks of a variety of GPUs in it, simply compare like architecture to see what Im getting (uses Wikipedia for the flop difference) http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/nvidia_geforce_gtx_1070_review,17.html
Finally, this is not to say that there couldnt be significant difference in performance between Sonys Neo or Microsoft Scorpio, as other parts of the hardware (CPU, Memory size and bandwidth, etc.) could provide significant advantages to Microsoft, especially if current information and extrapolations for both are any indicators.
Information below is what I used to make my statements.
XB1(1.32 T-flops) to PS4 (1.84 T-flops) = 39.4% difference
Neo (4.14) to Scorpio (5.28 to 6**) = 27.5%>>Scorpio≤44.9%
*Wiki articles flop count could be different due to different clock speeds of the measured cards
**As Kotakus information gives a range of between 5-6 T-flops and Polygon indicates that the Scorpio would be over 4 times more powerful (they also state its 6 T-flops) than XB1 I choose to use a range that reflected currently available information to more accurately describe the relative percent difference.
All numbers are rounded thus approximate
Sources of information:
Sources for range:
http://www.polygon.com/2016/5/25/11774294/xbox-one-slim-one-two-scorpio
http://kotaku.com/sources-smaller-xbox-one-coming-this-year-more-powerf-1778634446
Wikipage
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Radeon_Rx_300_series
StarBlazers1
Member
Console prices are dictated by more than just the APU. Didn't the Apu in the PS4 originally cost about $100. If Xbox Scorpio has a $200 apu, it needs a completely new memory architecture to feed it. Gddr5x or HBM2 is more expensive, plus other BOM, I'm not seeing a $400 price point unless MS is content for selling at a loss.
StrongBlackVine
Banned
How much would comparable PC cost compared to this rumored Scorpio?
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
I just wanted to further support my argument for why I think we'll see a $399 Scorpio.
People may want to use the OG Xbox as an example of why Microsoft won't want to bleed money on a console again, but people need to remember, Microsoft slit the OG's throat because they basically had no way of getting that console's costs down thanks to nVidia. But make no mistake, the OG Xbox was a monster for it's time. Microsoft isn't scared of making powerful hardware.
But the Scorpio will be built in conjunction with AMD so that they CAN get the costs down. Most likely quickly. Microsoft is well aware that they dun goofed on the specs of the Xbox One. This thing basically couldn't keep up the day it was released. So yeah, they're not taking a hit on the box, but the fact that the thing isn't selling all that great makes saving money kinda pointless no? The idea is to sell lots of them with a view to sell software/subs and then eventually making money on the hardware with time. But the Xbox One as it is right now simply won't last that long. It's too weak.
By making a 6TF monstrosity within the confines of a locked down console, Microsoft knows they'll bleed, but they'll bleed knowing this console will most likely be able to run games at a bare minimum 1080/60 for many many many years knowing the majority of gamers out there will be more than happy with that. 4K won't hit mainstream levels for quite a while and when it does? Microsoft (and Sony) will have their 4K gaming ready upgrades for the enthusiats that want that option. The costs will then obviously come down on the console, but it will be on a console they can sell for many more years than they can the current Xbox One, which makes the initial bleeding worthwhile. If the rumours are true, I don't see why they can't sell the Scorpio for at least 6-8 years, if not more.
This is obviously pure speculation based on the information that's been floating around, but to me it makes sense. I even forgot Oculus support, which seems all but confirmed. They need this thing to support Oculus for a decent amount of time.
People may want to use the OG Xbox as an example of why Microsoft won't want to bleed money on a console again, but people need to remember, Microsoft slit the OG's throat because they basically had no way of getting that console's costs down thanks to nVidia. But make no mistake, the OG Xbox was a monster for it's time. Microsoft isn't scared of making powerful hardware.
But the Scorpio will be built in conjunction with AMD so that they CAN get the costs down. Most likely quickly. Microsoft is well aware that they dun goofed on the specs of the Xbox One. This thing basically couldn't keep up the day it was released. So yeah, they're not taking a hit on the box, but the fact that the thing isn't selling all that great makes saving money kinda pointless no? The idea is to sell lots of them with a view to sell software/subs and then eventually making money on the hardware with time. But the Xbox One as it is right now simply won't last that long. It's too weak.
By making a 6TF monstrosity within the confines of a locked down console, Microsoft knows they'll bleed, but they'll bleed knowing this console will most likely be able to run games at a bare minimum 1080/60 for many many many years knowing the majority of gamers out there will be more than happy with that. 4K won't hit mainstream levels for quite a while and when it does? Microsoft (and Sony) will have their 4K gaming ready upgrades for the enthusiats that want that option. The costs will then obviously come down on the console, but it will be on a console they can sell for many more years than they can the current Xbox One, which makes the initial bleeding worthwhile. If the rumours are true, I don't see why they can't sell the Scorpio for at least 6-8 years, if not more.
This is obviously pure speculation based on the information that's been floating around, but to me it makes sense. I even forgot Oculus support, which seems all but confirmed. They need this thing to support Oculus for a decent amount of time.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
I'd prefer them to go full beast mode at 449 or even 499, but I'm not an average consumer.
It seems the console industry is about to go down a better road. Not a perfect road, but a better one.
therealbigrich
Member
Pretty funny
therealbigrich
Member
Definitely agree I think they are banking on the ppl that don't have a gaming PC though
Haha, love it.
Same. For something I'll use almost every day for ~4 years, paying $100 more is like 7 cents a day, not to mention the fact that when the next thing comes around I can turn around and sell it for probably 1/3 or more of what I paid for it. But I understand why they might knock it down a peg to hit a lower price point.
StarBlazers1
Member
Yup. I'm a sucker for this type of thing. Go Full on!
BeforeU
Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
Nothing new. Same old speculations.
Maximilian Kolbe
Member
I just wonder if Rx480 can coming this month(it's June now in my country lol), can we think maybe Scorpio coming earlier than rumor's expect?
kingwingin
Member
this is why i dont think scorpio would come out 2017, 6TF is attainable this year.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
itshappening.gif?
Wouldn't be crazy to think the RX 480 will form the basis of Scorpio's APU? A retail $199 5.5TF GPU should be able to squeeze it's way into a loss leading $399 console right?
Wouldn't be crazy to think the RX 480 will form the basis of Scorpio's APU? A retail $199 5.5TF GPU should be able to squeeze it's way into a loss leading $399 console right?
This is kind of what I'm thinking...