Polygon: Xbox Scorpio will be a ~6 TFLOP system (v PS4K's 4.14), unveil soon, Fall 17

Tatsumi Oga said:
Some people say Sony would not let MS have the more powerful hardware, but i don't see why not. Look at PS360, sure the PS3 was slightly more powerful but it also had to cope with slightly lesser multiplatform games, but despite all that the PS3 sold pretty damn well. I really doubt the userbase of PS4 will make Xbox their main system anytime soon, so i think they will be ok.
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I don't think it's a question of Sony letting them, they don't really have much of a choice in the short term if the rumors are true.
 
DagnastyEp said:
The info about Scorpio available seems to indicate that MS is looking to go to a PC or mobile phone model with hardware *and* software. With a faster upgrade cycle for hardware, and software that works on various levels or hardware.

This is beneficial for developers because: they can submit one game that then works on multiple devices (and generations of devices). Rather than submitting a game once per platform it would be on. It would be much like iOS, and there would eventually be a point where the game would no longer be supported on certain older hardware, and it would likely be more up to the developer as to which platforms to support. One submission and update process could greatly simplify things for developers.

This is beneficial for gamers because: its about keeping your library with you. Instead of waiting and hoping for a game to be added to the BC list, all your games and saves will be there already and "just work" regardless of platform. The library goes from being tied to the console, to tied to you.

This is beneficial to MS because: this allows them to move much faster with hardware. The software is now decoupled from hardware. Moving to a new console would no longer mean moving to a new gaming library, and starting over. People develop attachments to their games, and not consoles. MS can have shorter console cycles, and people have the option to upgrade more often - which in turn results in more consoles sold. There could be some people who would upgrade every time, and others who hold off every few years as long as the same games still work. It also means that they don't have to worry as much about making a future proof console that sells at a loss; instead make a console that is powerful at that point in time and sells for a profit - in a few years that console is starting to look weak, but a new one is on the horizon to take it's place.
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Thinking about this a bit more, this is a lot more like the phone/tablet model than it is a PC model, where upgrades can, and often do happen modularly.

For example, I'll be upgrading to a 1080 GPU soon. I'm not buying na entirely new PC though.
 
Lister said:
I love how the stoy of iterating hardware that has been console gamer's #1 reason for never going PC, is now suddenly the best thing since sliced bread.

I mean, I agree... I just find it amusing that now everyone agrees too, you know, once consoles started doing it ;)

This is the smartest move consoles have made in a very long time, as has been just about EVERY move they copied from PC gaming since the release of the Xbox.
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47E8D.gif
 
DagnastyEp said:
This is beneficial for developers because: they can submit one game that then works on multiple devices (and generations of devices). Rather than submitting a game once per platform it would be on. It would be much like iOS, and there would eventually be a point where the game would no longer be supported on certain older hardware, and it would likely be more up to the developer as to which platforms to support. One submission and update process could greatly simplify things for developers.
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You don't need hardware iterations for that, Microsoft already has UWP to deal with this.
DagnastyEp said:

This is beneficial for gamers because: its about keeping your library with you. Instead of waiting and hoping for a game to be added to the BC list, all your games and saves will be there already and "just work" regardless of platform. The library goes from being tied to the console, to tied to you.
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BC doesn't need to be done the way they do the 360 going forward, UWP can take care of that.

DagnastyEp said:
This is beneficial to MS because: this allows them to move much faster with hardware. The software is now decoupled from hardware. Moving to a new console would no longer mean moving to a new gaming library, and starting over. People develop attachments to their games, and not consoles. MS can have shorter console cycles, and people have the option to upgrade more often - which in turn results in more consoles sold. There could be some people who would upgrade every time, and others who hold off every few years as long as the same games still work. It also means that they don't have to worry as much about making a future proof console that sells at a loss; instead make a console that is powerful at that point in time and sells for a profit - in a few years that console is starting to look weak, but a new one is on the horizon to take it's place.
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If I'm being completely honest I don't really care if it's good for MS.. they're a big company. All of that brings negatives to me as a consumer. DRM stuff was good for MS too, doesn't mean we should accept it
though I'd of liked it
.

All the positives listed can already be done, just without any of the negatives it brings. That's another reason why I don't see any reason for this to happen. From where I'm sitting all I can see this is being a cash grab to get more money out of each consumer, and I guess an actual good thing is the userbase doesn't reset, but I don't think that's an issue as long as your last gen games come forward with BC.
 
Jarod McChicken said:
So, let's say you got PS4 Neo Q4 2016 with 4TFLOPS and Xbox One Scorpio Q4 2017 with 6TFLOPS.

You are the legendary Microsoft marketing team. How do you tell people to not buy PS4 Neo exactly ? How is that 2TFLOPS advantage does translate for the average user across PR and trailers ? The only Digital Foundry face off during 2017 would be those who show how PS4 Neo games are over Xbox One games. Finally, by the time the Scorpio is supposed to come to the market, there will be something like 70 million PS4 across the globe. Do you see a lot of publishers working on Scorpio as a lead platform from there ?
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Slim at a good price is the answer until then along with great games and exclusives. Everyone will know that a more powerful machine than PS4k is not too far off so buy into the xbox ecosystem now and everything will be forward compatible. Even with Oculus.
 
Curufinwe said:
I doubt QB sold well enough for them to want to continue with it.
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The game is simply too damn good for it to not get a followup. It's as simple as that. It was a masterpiece as far as I'm concerned, and one of the best game experiences I've ever had. It not getting a sequel, or an opportunity to grow into something more and develop the rest of the potential that is there, would be a travesty.
 
Lister said:
I love how the stoy of iterating hardware that has been console gamer's #1 reason for never going PC, is now suddenly the best thing since sliced bread.

I mean, I agree... I just find it amusing that now everyone agrees too, you know, once consoles started doing it ;)

This is the smartest move consoles have made in a very long time, as has been just about EVERY move they copied from PC gaming since the release of the Xbox.
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The overall package of said console is likely to still be much cheaper and carry with it less hassle compared to the process that one has to go through to upgrade to the latest and greatest gaming PC, especially if the person is in a position where they require more than just a new GPU, but also need improved ram and/or a new CPU and motherboard.
 
Panajev2001a said:
What is the benefit for you as a gamer? Where do you see value in exactly?
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Mainly the opportunity to play the 1st party games (and some multiplatform games) on upgraded machines, combined with the backward/forward compatibility. But like I said, I don't let my gamer side take over on me as I can't ignore all the downsides from a business/technical standpoint.


MilkyJoe said:
"That's right, Folks! More than a whole extra PS4 worth of power under the bonnet..."
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Yeaaaah, that's not gonna work. Not when the XB brand is almost weaker than ever, not when you'll have just "console exclusives", not when Sony is slowly but gradually taking all the mindshare and not when the OG PS4 is still selling like gangbusters (with the possibility of more price cuts) while more gaming communities (the BF1, COD:IW, TF 2, FFXV, RE7, ME Andromeda, maybe RDR2 etc. crowd) will probably choose to embrace/stick with PS consoles.


The late release date will not definitely help them.
 
Power doesn't mean anything.

But it's a good place to start. MS need to think real hard how they going to beat or even compete with Sony in the European market.

Having a more powerful console is a good start. But this console needs to wow people and do something that the PS4 neo can't. The exclusives need to be fresh. Otherwise it will be the same story with this as it will only sell in UK and America.
 
Obscuritas said:
Yeaaaah, that's not gonna work. Not when the XB brand is almost weaker than ever, not when you'll have just "console exclusives", not when Sony is slowly but gradually taking all the mindshare and not when the OG PS4 is still selling like gangbusters (with the possibility of more price cuts) while more gaming communities (the BF1, COD:IW, TF 2, FFXV, RE7, ME Andromeda, maybe RDR2 etc. crowd) will probably choose to embrace/stick with PS consoles.


The late release date will not definitely help them.
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It was kind of a joke. And that's some choice fortune telling you got going there.
 
3rdamention said:
I saw that, appears to be ending the day of MSs conference. I bet they simply dated the price cut just so they could say it's permanent at E3...
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Well also I think the previous announcements hadn't mentioned the 1TB being $319 just teh xbox one starting at $299. I am wondering if this is worded this way so when E3 hits the 1TB is actually dropped to $299, 500GB $249 and the new slim is set at $349.
 
If the Scorpio 2017 rumor was a planned Leak, maybe it was meant as a smoke screen to mask a 2016 launch. lol #CreativeChatter
 
Chobel said:
They're launhcing a new XB1 slim SKU this year. Announcing Scorpio will sure fuck up their plans.
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Not really.

They announce the Xbone S as the entry level at $249, then enter Xbox Scorpio as hardcore level at $399-449. Bam! *techno music plays*
 
So is the slim going to directly competing with the Neo? I know the Neo is getting a power boost, is the slim doing the same?
 
TLZ said:
Not really.

They announce the Xbone S as the entry level at $249, then enter Xbox Scorpio as hardcore level at $399-449.
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I don't think they're going to do a $100 price drop in the matter of weeks. It'll be $299 with $249 during the holidays.

Doesn't make sense to announce Scorpio at E3 though unless it's out this year, if it's next year it's going to kill sales.
 
Chris1 said:
You don't need hardware iterations for that, Microsoft already has UWP to deal with this.
BC doesn't need to be done the way they do the 360 going forward, UWP can take care of that.
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Yes. The move toward UWP is the reason continuously iterative consoles are possible in the first place. And while we're labeling this as an iterative machine, the rumored GPU in Scorpio seems to be a significant jump. That could be considered more of a new generation than an iteration.

If I'm being completely honest I don't really care if it's good for MS.. they're a big company. All of that brings negatives to me as a consumer. DRM stuff was good for MS too, doesn't mean we should accept it
though I'd of liked it
.

All the positives listed can already be done, just without any of the negatives it brings. That's another reason why I don't see any reason for this to happen. From where I'm sitting all I can see this is being a cash grab to get more money out of each consumer, and I guess an actual good thing is the userbase doesn't reset, but I don't think that's an issue as long as your last gen games come forward with BC.
Click to expand...

The main negative you seem to be talking about is having to buy more hardware more often.

If future consoles are forward and backward compatible, then there's no immediate pressure to upgrade. Upgrade when you want or are able to. You can continue to grow you games library on your current hardware, and when you're ready to upgrade all your stuff will move over. People who need the newest tech will upgrade quickly, while others will wait until they are more comfortable with the purchase.

For the sake of progress there has to be a point where older hardware is no longer supported, so as to not hold back future software. It's just that going forward MS wants to blur the line of when that would happen, rather than it being a sharp line starting and ending at each new console generation.

I'm not 100% sold on this idea, but I'm willing to have an open mind and see what the future of Xbox is all about - as of now I'm optimistic. Plus, if it really sucks, consumers have options, and I could easily switch over to Playstation, or go full on PC gaming.
 
So here's a wild guess on how the multiple skis will pan out.

Ms paid for the redesign of the current apu @ 14nm.

At that size the apu becomes extremely cheap, small and low power.

Disabling a few cus they can have a passively cooled solution for their apple tv like.

For the slim they have some headroom for overclocking compared to current design. They can make the box very small, silent and still more powerful than the current design.

On xbone they still have some cooling headroom as well, because currently they go for a near silent console. So perhaps they can overclock the console a bit too, in exchange for a more noisy console.

Along side that they paid for a newer chip using newer architecture that's going to power Scorpio.

That would give them a very interesting selection of devices and price range.

The stick could be apps and stream games only. For 100 dollars.

The apple tv like could play current games at lower settings (even lower resolutions) for 150-200 dollars.

The current console and slim would become a bit stronger than the current model (with a small bump in res/framerate for current games) and keep the current price 250-300 dollars).

Next year they can knock off a 50 dollar on every device and offer Scorpio for 400 dollars. Aimed at the highest performance they could get. And who knows, perhaps offer even higher performance consoles at 500-600 price range or even more.

Align that with their strategy: The same ecosystem, running the same apps and games and they would have killer devices for all price points and use cases.
 
If Scorpio is launching this year, then the possibility of it using Zen cores is close to 0%. If people really want a good (balanced) box then they should hope that Scorpio is next year with the best case scenario would be Spring 2017.
 
El_Chino said:
But the rumor still stands that it's due out next year.

We would've heard about more exact specs and devKits by now if it was releasing this year.
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If I recall didn't MS have one of their FCC filing NDA's expire at the end July? Could this be related?
 
wachie said:
If Scorpio is launching this year, then the possibility of it using Zen cores is close to 0%. If people really want a good (balanced) box then they should hope that Scorpio is next year with the best case scenario would be Spring 2017.
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Would it really be that big of a deal if they didn't use Zen?

It feels like anything would be an upgrade over the Jaguar.
 
Chris1 said:
I don't think they're going to do a $100 price drop in the matter of weeks. It'll be $299 with $249 during the holidays.

Doesn't make sense to announce Scorpio at E3 though unless it's out this year, if it's next year it's going to kill sales.
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We all know a new iPhone is coming out every year, does that kill sales?

MS are most likely going down the yearly console route most likely. When Scorpio comes out, are people going to be like I will wait next year as they'd release a new one. You'd be waiting forever.

Nintendo announced the NX basically a year in advance.

I don't understand this kill sales. PS3 sales were good when Sony announced the PS4 back in Feb 2013.

As long as MS support the Xbox one with good games then the sales will good. Then you got a game like red dead redemption and Mass effect, which could launch before the Scorpio. GTA V launched before the PS4 and that boosted PS3 sales.

Also the Scorpio won't be for everyone. It's going to a high price entry console. Where as Xbox one will be low entry and that should boost its sales.
 
FordGTGuy said:
It would be odd to not support Kinect and HDMI in.

Hardware wise the cost of the ports is almost non-existent and the software is already there.
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Yea, Kinect they will have to support because they said many times Cortana will be able to be used with Kinect.
And HDMI in also has to happen because of the rumored DVR feature. Not to mention all the TV features already in place.
 
Compsiox said:
I'm expecting it by Fall. Eat me!

People seem to forget that we didn't know this gen console specs until like March and they came out in October/November
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That would be quite the comeback, but I don't see that happening. It's not a smart move to release a successor after three years unless you have an upgrade incentive in place. I can't even see it be helpful in the VR war, since Oculus simply doesn't have enough units ready in November to really counter PSVR with bringing the Oculus store and all its games to Scorpio. If that happened it would be the boldest move ever.
 
gundamkyoukai said:
Those people are crazy the TDP for that thing is 150watts and that is just the GPU .
Something like that is not going to find it's way into a console this year .
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You use the word this year when the rumor is next year...

Also consumer card requirements =/= custom built console hardware.

etta said:
Yea, Kinect they will have to support because they said many times Cortana will be able to be used with Kinect.
And HDMI in also has to happen because of the rumored DVR feature. Not to mention all the TV features already in place.
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Well I think the controller revision at E3 is going to be a microphone, I also expect a remote control for the streaming devices with a mic installed too.

But still a Kinect has it's place for people that want it.

link1201 said:
Another price drop maybe? lol
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More like a hardware shakeup to the lineup.

I could see the slim taking the spot of the fat Xbox One.
 
wachie said:
If Scorpio is launching this year, then the possibility of it using Zen cores is close to 0%. If people really want a good (balanced) box then they should hope that Scorpio is next year with the best case scenario would be Spring 2017.
Click to expand...

Yeah, as much as I'd like to see it release this year, it's probably best for a 2017 release. I just hope they don't keep us waiting too long though.
 
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