Leyasu
Banned
All depends on who answers this question....
If the specs are true, then the gap is big
Polygon: Xbox Scorpio will be a ~6 TFLOP system (v PS4K's 4.14), unveil soon, Fall 17
- Thread starter BUNTING1243
- Start date
All depends on who answers this question....
If the specs are true, then the gap is big
Depends.
Scorpio's GPU will be more powerful than Neo's, but what matters even more will be what CPU and what kind of memory (and how much) Scorpio uses. If Scorpio uses a Zen CPU, it's essentially a new console. If it also has HBM2, it's even more of a next gen console.
A new CPU is very likely. HBM2 is a huge if, and not nearly as likely, yet still a possibility that can't be ruled out yet.
The PS2 was severly disadvantaged when the Xbox came out. But it still destroyed it market share-wise.
If the PS4/Neo is the market share leader, devs won't give their full attention to Scorpio, only MS will. So the added power won't matter.
thelastword
Banned
Still specs can be upgraded, things can change and XB 1.5 specs are just rumours and NEO specs are not final. Remember that PS4 was once a 4GB Machine till GDDR5 matured. I also read quite a few articles on how X1 would be stronger than PS4 too prior to release, so these specs are definitely not set in stone.
Zen would be great for any console, but that's likely a new console generation if Zen comes in, also, a 6TF console with Zen is going to require higher power draw than current consoles, cooling will have to heighten and the price of such a console will not be $400.00, so there are many other variables to consider.
Stronger machines have failed, also stronger machines powered by the cloud (with good balanced hardware) have also had a tougher timeTo be fair, if Scorpio releases a year later and is the weaker box, it's curtains for Xbox
Hopefully we get more solid specs in less than two weeks at E3, I think the games they show on these new systems will be the sellers more than anything else.
Why are you explaining that to me? That's why they have to go for next year, that should be common sense. Polaris vs Vega..is the Neo vs Scorpio GPU difference
...Scatter...
Banned
I want it to be i7 caliber as much add the next guy but if they're going to put it into an APU I'm sure it will be a bit more reserved than the desktop variant. But it will still smoke the Jaguar.
I wasn't trying to explain it to you, as if you didn't know. Just posting my thoughts for others to reply to, agree or disagree with.
The fact that there are already 40 million PS4's out there though means that the untapped market of potential console buyers is likely smaller. So Microsoft still has room to grow because there are probably more Xbox One owners who also bought a PS4 than PS4 owners who also bought an Xbox One. Similar to why Sony eventually cut the gap last generation. Eventually a lot of people ended up owning both. The Slim console will help this more than the Scorpio though.
Art Vandilay
Member
Haha
I know it's not a big difference, but I find it hilarious how you're rounding up.
How is a 1.8 Tflops difference similar to .5 tflops difference? Lol
Proelite
Member
One super computer with 600 tflops, and another with 550 tflops. 50 tflops difference. The must be SOOO different.
SpartanN92
Banned
Imagine Halo on Scorpio though... I know Halo isn't exactly the juggernaut it once was but if they release Halo 3 anniversary on Scorpio that might be the magic bullet Xbox needs to get people racing back.
You mean, wont Scorpio be disadvantaged by launching a year later? The minimum spec will not be Scorpio, so, if the power in Scorpio is not used 100% by multiplats running on both hardware and the PS4 and XB1, it means less.
Percentage wise. 1.31 vs 1.84 is similar to 4 to 6. Since both consoles GPU's are ugprading, the differences between the two are smaller because they competing on a higher level in general.
Its like PS2 having 6gflops vs Xbox having 20gflops, which was a far bigger difference than the GPU disparity here
The differences were there, but that's still only 12 gflops difference today.
OdysseusVA
Banned
it's all relative to base values which is why you can't compare percentages when they're two completely different numbers, that was my point
If you're gonna compare the two you have to do it based on the actual numbers not percentages.You really can't use %'s when comparing two completely different values, $10 might be way more than $1 on it's own but we're not talking about on it's own, when you compare it to $100 to $10 that $9 difference isn't much at all.
What?
5f and 10tf is a 200% difference, 100gflops and 500gflops is a 500% difference... I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here..
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
I think it really depends what is the time difference between the releases. If Neo comes out quite a bit in advance of Scorpio I think it will take away a large amount of the impact Scorpio could generate. On the other hand though if they are releasing relatively close to each other and ads are showing a massive leap in visual between 3rd party it won't be good for Sony.
Interfectum
Member
Begun again, the console wars have.
Art Vandilay
Member
Because that's all we have to work with whereas 4.14 was specifically stated.
anexanhume
Member
MS DUCK TAPED A PS4 TO A PS4 NEO, PACK IT UP SONYPONYS.
Actually what happened is that 4.2 was a typo. It's just supposed to be 6/4 since those were the numbers in the post I quoted.
If it really should be 6/4.2, then the power ratio is even more similar: 1.429 to 1.385.
Add Quantum Break Remastered.
how does 6/4.2 = 1.4285 become 1.5 while 1.8/1.3 = 1.3846 becomes 1.385 ?
Proelite
Member
We have people in this thread that would argue you'll see a bigger difference in graphics between the 5tf and 10tf system since it's like 2+ PS4s of difference.
I apologize, i was rude sounding.
It seems like the power wars have spiraled again.
The only point i was making was that the Scorpio has to launch next year to make the most out of their upgrade path.
In terms of GPU, there's a limited amount they can do with the power envelope, even with Vega, so they need to think about what they prioritize.
I say they should go in hard, but the GPU is going to have a limited impact considering that is what Sony is prioritizing, so the CPU and HBM is what they should really be running after
I'm imagining it on my PC instead lol.
The added power of the Scorpio will make those first party games look amazing though I agree.
Eh, they are. This is more than the earth simulator which dominated the top 500 list for 2 years (!!).
XBox had 20GFlops the same way PS3 had 2TFlops.Inuhanyou said:
The actual figure was ~7.1 (counting both CPU and GPU). There was still a large disparity (featureset, 2x more memory, faster CPU and higher sustained GPU performance), but no need to do revisionist history on it.
Ultimately 50% difference never meant a whole lot though - as relative jumps from DC->PS2 and PS2->XB (also GC->XB) were in fact larger than that and people still argue about them to this day. Admittedly - Digital foundry didn't exist back in the day to put a numerical measure on the differences.
presagetogood
Member
A lot of people here are making it seem like developing/getting power out of the hardware of Scorpio will be hard.... This is PC hardware with a Direct X API. If anything, the only hardware that will still take work to code for will be XB1..... Settings will be adjusted for Scorpio and PS4k, with Scorpio taking the highest settings and frame rates. I hope I see plenty of gaffers calling games unplayable relative to Scorpio, lol. Sarcasm aside, the higher end for hardware will push games development further, and we should see bigger sacrifices being made on XB1 and PS4, but probably not until 2020 or somewhere around then , when we will be 1-2 years away from next next gen. Anyone thinking we're going to have shorter than 3 year spans between hardware is ignoring the R&D and marketing costs of launching new hardware.
The play for new hardware makes complete sense right now. Hardware is what drives curiosity; the sense of what's possible, the drive for exploration of new utilities/experiences, is literally what drives society forward. Even with ps4 sales at a breathtaking pace, a well positioned Sony doesn't want to miss out on the fullest possible territory for VR. Combine that with the enviable esteem consumers feel for Sony, and I could see them seeing offering more power as exactly what enthusiasts wanted.
Obviously, they risked MS doing exactly what they're doing, but I believe they're counting on the exact counter currents that have already been proferred here; suddenly hardware doesn't matter so much here in this thread after years of it mattering so much because it comes down to ecosystem... Which at this point, objectively speaking, only consists of one major blockbuster and a couple smaller exclusives [considering only the names that made a big splash] on the Sony side.
Back to my original argument.... MS made the API incredibly easy to port from PC, there is literally no reason developers can't simply port over code for the highest settings possible on Scorpio.
The play for new hardware makes complete sense right now. Hardware is what drives curiosity; the sense of what's possible, the drive for exploration of new utilities/experiences, is literally what drives society forward. Even with ps4 sales at a breathtaking pace, a well positioned Sony doesn't want to miss out on the fullest possible territory for VR. Combine that with the enviable esteem consumers feel for Sony, and I could see them seeing offering more power as exactly what enthusiasts wanted.
Obviously, they risked MS doing exactly what they're doing, but I believe they're counting on the exact counter currents that have already been proferred here; suddenly hardware doesn't matter so much here in this thread after years of it mattering so much because it comes down to ecosystem... Which at this point, objectively speaking, only consists of one major blockbuster and a couple smaller exclusives [considering only the names that made a big splash] on the Sony side.
Back to my original argument.... MS made the API incredibly easy to port from PC, there is literally no reason developers can't simply port over code for the highest settings possible on Scorpio.
Ummm, okay.
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
I think I can speak for every lurker:
Hehe.
??? The GPU of the Xbox was literally a PC part with that FLOP number as relayed on B3D by a developer himself.
I didn't make that number out of my ass
The GPU had Vertex Shader units that worked in Floating point, which would be rated at roughly 4.2GFlops. The rest of the programmable pipeline was fixed point, just like PS2, GC, and any other GPU until 2002 sometime.Inuhanyou said:
And I distinctly remember NVidia putting out that 20+ something number, but maybe I'm just getting old, it has been a long time ago...
SpartanN92
Banned
Trust me I'd rather it be on my PC too but a big multiplayer game like Halo on a console like Scorpio really might bring the masses back
Can we please not pretend that comparing the differences in two quantities by using a ratio isn't a perfectly normal thing to do?
Shadax the wizard
Member
Any kind soul wanna give a short summary? I haven't been active in this thread.
therealbigrich
Member
Nobody knows it's all speculation
presagetogood
Member
Instead of making these obscure comparisons... Why not just compare a 4TF AMD GPU to a 6TF GPU for something like Battlefront. Can anyone post screens/graphs?
DagnastyEp
Member
Regarding 4.19TF (Neo) vs ~6TF (Scorpio), looking at percent differences it's close to what we currently have with XB1 and PS4. Though in absolute terms, 1.8TF difference does seem like quite a lot.
I think it's still to early to try to guess the comparative performance of these two consoles without knowing RAM amount, memory bandwidth, or CPU for Scorpio. It's my *guess* that Scorpio will be significantly ahead of Neo in each of these regards, in a similar manner (or more) that the (rumored) GPU target is ahead of Neo's. If that's the case, I would then guess the overall difference in games would be something of significance, favoring Scorpio.
I think it's still to early to try to guess the comparative performance of these two consoles without knowing RAM amount, memory bandwidth, or CPU for Scorpio. It's my *guess* that Scorpio will be significantly ahead of Neo in each of these regards, in a similar manner (or more) that the (rumored) GPU target is ahead of Neo's. If that's the case, I would then guess the overall difference in games would be something of significance, favoring Scorpio.
New Xbox will be more powerful than PS4K GPU wise, has the potential to be far stronger CPU and RAM wise depending on what they put in the box.
The rest of the thread is just backround noise about what Sony should do, or the amount of success the Xbox unit will have compared to Sony's new unit.
Proelite
Member
Or you can get the same perceived visual difference if you compare a 2TF AMD GPU to a 3TF AMD GPU, provided everything is else is equal.
blue_phazon
Member
Halo will never recapture than super widespread appeal anymore. The casual shooter crowd moved to COD and didn't look back.
presagetogood
Member
This is literally the only place of substance we can arrive to. This is the best possible guess based on rumors with well founded sources. Can't wait for both hardware to get better already; I'm ready for the huge upgrades and VR already.
what about ram or cpu ? are they the same ?
CrimsonEclipse
Member
I'm a lurker in this thread but holy shit dude, your fucking avator....is that the crack addicted conker (hololens) and crash fused?
LOL gross.
Bitch Pudding
Member
Wanna take an educated guess which console has the edge?
Scorpio due to that extra source of TerraFLOPS?
Or PS4 Neo due to an approx. $100 price and the early mover advantage?
I am not even starting with the availability of games exploiting the power of both systems, or substitutes.
PS4 Neo will be fine...