I really dont know how people can have this view, considering UWP.
Polygon: Xbox Scorpio will be a ~6 TFLOP system (v PS4K's 4.14), unveil soon, Fall 17
- Thread starter BUNTING1243
- Start date
Are they delicious now?
Nah, the power difference will suddenly drop as an important factor, DF will be called bias, and the conversation on GAF will just shift to highlight exclusives and sales.
I think it's plausible for UWP to still be in effect with Scorpio and PC but giving up on Xboner eventually
so if they (as in third party) still target ps4s because the of numbers it it possible MS version could still suffer?
The Mad Draklor
Member
Well last year, the PS4 received games such as Disgaea 5, Until Dawn, and Helldivers, all of which belong in different genres.
I don't really see how "5 of those games are not even out" is an argument when they are coming one way or another. It also disregards the numerous games the PS4 has received so far this year that the XB1 has not gotten (e.g. Digimon Story: Cyber Sleuth, MLB 16, Nights of Azure, Ratchet & Clank, etc.)
I think it will be different. Xbox one released at the same time as ps4, for $100 more and got trounced in head to heads. No one expected that going into the gen.
Scorpio will be coming out a year later for $100 more if rumours are to be believed. The real story will be if Scorpio fails to be materially better.
I don't think that's an 'if'. Devs arent going to drop XB1 and PS4's user bases just because MS and Sony put out stronger units. They will take advantage of that power possibly in exclusives, but third party games will be limited to the design constraints of PS4 and XB1
geordiemp
Member
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=702055
You can watch Neogaf burn when COD ghosts was leaked at only 720p. Gaf went nuts, cue Albert Panello of MS on GAF saying we have the best graphics programmers in the world etc....and GAF went more nuts.
Great times on GAF, not good for MS.
It was the first real benchmark, it hit home allot more than vague 1.1 / 1.3 / 1.8 or Gddr5 discussions did which were all ifs and maybe's.
If Neo gimps the CPU and does not run games as users would expect....then its goodnight Sony and many will switch like last gen.
vpance
Gold Member
All depends on the lazy dev paradigm.
forced parity and lazy devs amirite??
anothertech
Member
Not even that. MS marketing 2013 happened.
Power, price, global markets, all that made a difference, but what did MS in was their message in 2013. TV, watercoolers, Kinect and DRM. Gamers heard their message loud and clear 3 years ago and picked sides.
It was the perfect shtstorm hurricane of negative points against Xbox and MS were the only ones responsible.
Now 3 years later, I still hear players talking about that debacle, as if it wasn't 180'd in its entirety.
Scorpio vs Neo power difference is going to be a non issue in comparison.
We are long past the days of Cell and PowerPC. These games are running on x86 architecture just like your PC games. It's an annoyance for developers but I think it's being overblown by spectators. Games are developed and then optimized down for the platform.
You forgot the biggest thing. Neo and Scorpio are probably releasing 6-12 months apart.
Leyasu
Banned
Qft. No need of a crystal ball.
Don't forget the extra year of getting used to the Neo architecture.
MS too has a good variety then: Recore, Scalebound, sunset overdrive, ori and the Blind Forest, halo, Gears, quantum break, d4, etc...
Or are you one of those guys that really think MS only has halo/forza/gears?
The only real difference is that Sony has some japanese games that MS doesn't, but they are irrelevant in the big market.
I think people think UWP won't be used on XBO or something cuz I don't get it. UWP is going to be the way to develop on any Windows 10 device. Right now devs use the XDK specifically for XBO, but soon enough that will change.
It will I just think devs will stop bothering optimizing for XBO faster than PS4
Samurai G0SU
Member
You know.. With the way ms is leveraging win10 and xbox as being unified..... Cant they just have devs use uwp and have it also avail on every win10 pc essentially?
So that to me seems like a no brainer on dev support with uwp... Well maybe.....
Of course except the tim sweeny stuff and etc etc. And they still need to prove to them to do it and perhaps the fine print needs reworkd idk.
From what ive read on gaf...
If i were a dev and i had an option to make a uwp game where i will be available on every windows 10 pc and xbox by only coding for the uwp.. That seems like a step toward convienence, no?
It probably goes too complex for my small mind on all the logistics, price, time-frame etc but overall it seems like a good idea for everyone.
So that to me seems like a no brainer on dev support with uwp... Well maybe.....
Of course except the tim sweeny stuff and etc etc. And they still need to prove to them to do it and perhaps the fine print needs reworkd idk.
From what ive read on gaf...
If i were a dev and i had an option to make a uwp game where i will be available on every windows 10 pc and xbox by only coding for the uwp.. That seems like a step toward convienence, no?
It probably goes too complex for my small mind on all the logistics, price, time-frame etc but overall it seems like a good idea for everyone.
I'm guessing that over the next few weeks that will change. A big part of the Redstone update this month is to unify the stores. I have a feeling Microsoft is going to talk up UWP quite a bit.
this is the entire point of UWP
More than anything, the most optimizations will come from engines. I do agree with what you are saying but I think more than anything we won't really know how optimized something is for a system because most will be using engines (and plus, the Xbox is already lower powered).
That's exactly the reason why UWP is what MS is pushing. If you're an indie dev, it would be much easier to release 1 app that spans across Xbox and PC than make specific apps for both systems. Note, not all indies have to use the Xbox Live SDK and go through ID@Xbox to get their game on an Xbox One. They can just release a regular Windows Store app and have one of the targets be Xbox One but without the Achievements and all that stuff.
Sydle said:
Oh they definitely will, that's a given. Everytime you hear Windows, you might as well just think UWP. It's what they are pushing for everything that has to do with Windows. Same APIs, shared features, same security, one store, etc...
anothertech
Member
That was more a product of MS and other big heads in game development saying Xbone and ps4 power difference was negligible though. That was another part of their message. It seemed like it was said over and over again to try and brainwash us who knew better that there was no difference in power and the $100 price difference was worth it somehow.
When that first 720p game hit, it was like all the marketing and lies and their entire message was turned on its head.
Shortly after that they revealed sales numbers and the 180's started rolling in. It was a sht show of how to lose the faith of your entire userbase in a single year.
This won't be the case at all for Neo and Scorpio. Especially if they release 6 months apart.
dragonelite
Member
Considering Microsoft is also releasing a Xbox 1 mini/slim sku,
and their push for x1/pc crossbuy and merging both ecosystem.
KinofChaos
Banned
What does that have to do with anything? How does JRPG's not diversify the lineup?
1 ad, your reaching in 3 years it has barely been mentioned by sony in the mainstream ads.
It has not been used "Consistently" at all, it has barely been mentioned at all.
Scalebound is a JRPG, baby steps bro
vpance
Gold Member
With 5 platforms to support, super lazy. They might even start falling asleep on their dev kits.
Samurai G0SU
Member
All 300 of them! To the gallowz they must go. Buckets full of scorpions to remind them who's daddy.
Amiryte!?!?!?
If released, all of those would be running Windows Store Apps (UWAs). Not saying that you didn't know that but for others.
EDIT:
I think one thing that we haven't even talked about regarding MS and E3 and their announcements for the Scorpio and Slim is 3rd party games using UWP on PC. Could you imagine if they could get 3rd party support on there? I know that we got Ubisoft and EA who have their own stores for PC so I'm not assuming that they will, but other 3rd party studios doing it. Releasing games on both PC/Xbox would be a big win for MS. I don't think it will happen this year honestly (if anything I would think next year). As much as we talk about power of these systems...it's the 3rd parties that are crucial to a system being successful.
Samurai G0SU
Member
So i get a lil confused when ppl ask for other stores on the xbox and then say the scorpio will alienate prior xbox one owners when... In fact they are trying to bring everyone together(somewhat)
thanks for confirming guys.
That is an awful argument to make. Games don't have to be runaway 7 million Overwatch sales successes to exist. People who support niche JRPGs are really dedicated and support developers. They all don't need millions.
Bits N Pieces
Member
Do you live in the UK? It's been used in numerous promotional material including TV, print and online since the PS4 launched. I'm not making this up, lol
No problem. This picture from a MS presentation helps.
You see that it says "Xbox" and not "Xbox One"...that's because it's a platform that will have multiple iterations but still apart of the whole ecosystem. Every device goes to the same exact store. Nothing is separated (well, they are filtered if you are on a system that an app can't run on). The tools are the same. There's a set of Core APIs that all of the devices can talk to and there are specialized APIs for each platform (telephony is needed for mobile, but not Xbox...)
Yep. I am fairly confident to say that any game developed for Scorpio will have to be UWP.
As for your above comments about 3rd parties, I think that is the key leverage MS is using the XBox for. Devs aren't going to ignore their console(Scorpio), and MS will require UWP, if dev already has UWP version, it is MS' hope that they decide to just make it available on PC as well.
Sams said that MS was putting the XBox shell on Windows, so you are effectively correct. It will be effectively like playing on a console. MS' Big Picture mode on PC.
Art Vandilay
Member
No problem. This picture from a MS presentation helps.
You see that it says "Xbox" and not "Xbox One"...that's because it's a platform that will have multiple iterations but still apart of the whole ecosystem. Every device goes to the same exact store. Nothing is separated (well, they are filtered if you are on a system that an app can't run on). The tools are the same. There's a set of Core APIs that all of the devices can talk to and there are specialized APIs for each platform (telephony is needed for mobile, but not Xbox...)
I think Xbox as a platform, i.e. a service, is definitely the future. There will still be consoles, but I think people will be able to just launch the Xbox app on a Windows 10 PC and it will be exactly like playing from a console.
Edit: I may have just talked myself into building a PC.
Proelite
Member
Why? Neo would have been out for a year with any hardware competition. Only meltdown is if Scorpio is not a noticeably significant upgrade when it's released.
vpance
Gold Member
The greatest trick that lazy devs will ever pull is convincing the world that 2TF does not exist.
Art Vandilay
Member
I knew I had heard this somewhere, but didn't want to botch the source. I mean at the rate these GPUs are becoming increasingly cost effective, I'm really tempted to just build a PC. I'll at least wait to see what's inside the new consoles though.
Edit: I'm really surprised there isn't more talk about this. It's a pretty big deal in my opinion. Particularly in that you would not only have access to discounted games via Steam e.g., but also all the games in the Xbox catalog via UWP. I'm also pretty sure Spencer has said he would like to make it where people who want to use a controller would be able to play against others with controllers, as opposed to keyboard and mouse.
...Scatter...
Banned
We'll see what happens when it happens. Big dogs will lead the way. Madden. NBA2k. FIFA, COD, Destiny 2. If these games show the power you can kiss PS4 and XBOX One goodbye because people will be upgrading like hotcakes. Destiny will be delicious on the new consoles.
To your first statement: That's exactly right but even moreso, they are transitioning the Xbox One to only use UWP as well. There are still games in the pipeline that don't use UWP from 3rd parties but you can bet that it won't be that way for long.
To your second statement: Yes, and that is the most interesting part to all of this to me. The Windows Store is the end game. That's why they are pushing it for developers, that's why they are moving to UWP for the Xbox One, it's all about attracting developers to make apps for their Store. Gaming is a huge part of app stores, and if they can bring the numbers that they get into console and have it on PC, that could attract more developers (and indie developers) to make more apps (not only games, apps) to use UWP.
Gamers spend money and app developers are going to be looking at what the Windows Store produces and bringing the Xbox into that helps them a bunch, it's like free marketing for them (at least in my eyes). And because of how they developed their system, moving from one device to another is "relatively" easy depending on the code created to make the app and get more people to buy their app "for cheap". It's actually really smart, I'm just interested to see if it actually works or not. lol.
One of the main thing that interests me is how do they get more people to buy digitally. The Windows Store is really only great if people actually purchase from the store, so how MS markets this E3 is very telling.
And if MS had it their way (aka have all 3rd parties release their games on both PC and Xbox), they wouldn't care either way as they would still be getting a cut. I'm gonna build my PC but not until wedding stuff is over.
EDIT:
Art Vandilay said:
I was going to make a thread about UWP and the implications it has for MS and what's possible for the Xbox since it runs on Windows 10...but I haven't pulled the trigger yet.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
To your first statement: That's exactly right but even moreso, they are transitioning the Xbox One to only use UWP as well. There are still games in the pipeline that don't use UWP from 3rd parties but you can bet that it won't be that way for long.
To your second statement: Yes, and that is the most interesting part to all of this to me. The Windows Store is the end game. That's why they are pushing it for developers, that's why they are moving to UWP for the Xbox One, it's all about attracting developers to make apps for their Store. Gaming is a huge part of app stores, and if they can bring the numbers that they get into console and have it on PC, that could attract more developers (and indie developers) to make more apps (not only games, apps) to use UWP.
Gamers spend money and app developers are going to be looking at what the Windows Store produces and bringing the Xbox into that helps them a bunch, it's like free marketing for them (at least in my eyes). And because of how they developed their system, moving from one device to another is "relatively" easy depending on the code created to make the app and get more people to buy their app "for cheap". It's actually really smart, I'm just interested to see if it actually works or not. lol.
One of the main thing that interests me is how do they get more people to buy digitally. The Windows Store is really only great if people actually purchase from the store, so how MS markets this E3 is very telling.
And if MS had it their way (aka have all 3rd parties release their games on both PC and Xbox), they wouldn't care either way as they would still be getting a cut. I'm gonna build my PC but not until wedding stuff is over.
If MS is serious about their ecosystem, cross buy will be standard across all UWP. That's how you get people to buy digital.
MaulerX
Member
In the case of the XB1 it's almost guaranteed that MS will move past it much quicker than Sony with the PS4.
Art Vandilay
Member
And if MS had it their way (aka have all 3rd parties release their games on both PC and Xbox), they wouldn't care either way as they would still be getting a cut. I'm gonna build my PC but not until wedding stuff is over.
Congrats on getting married! I recently found out I'm going to be a dad so I'm kind of wanting to get this build under way sooner than later. It may sound horrible, but I'm planning on putting one of the rumored Xbox sticks in a TV in the nursery. Haha
And they will be still as annoying as ever, just with a nice big green coating of paint lol
He discussed that at GDC 2015. He wants it to be completely up to devs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nNMrDqZcj8 ~37:00
Yep. That will naturally happen with the Scorpio requirement.
I've actually heard having a baby leads to more gaming time because there are so many late nights just waiting for the kid to go to sleep
Art Vandilay
Member
Well damn. That would be a must for me. I also wonder if games like Destiny, those which aren't available on PC, would be playable through the Xbox app. Hopefully we'll hear more about this at E3.
This is good to know. I suppose I'll definitely be up for some midnight launches.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
But we actually know they exist.
Well for first party, for games that span across different devices, I'm sure that will be standard (they would be stupid to not do it, and i'm sure Quantum Break and KI really helped them see that even with QB not being a true crossbuy). So I agree 100%.
Thanks man and congrats to you too!