KinofChaos
Banned
Yeah and they all said 2017 Fall, Neo 2016.... They are not going to be able to get 6 tflops with current tech, 2017 makes sense for Zen. MS coming in more powerful and cheaper is a fantasy.
Polygon: Xbox Scorpio will be a ~6 TFLOP system (v PS4K's 4.14), unveil soon, Fall 17
- Thread starter BUNTING1243
- Start date
Yeah and they all said 2017 Fall, Neo 2016.... They are not going to be able to get 6 tflops with current tech, 2017 makes sense for Zen. MS coming in more powerful and cheaper is a fantasy.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
No way Scorpio releases more than 3 months after Neo. No point otherwise. If 480 is ready for retail this month, Scorpio is ready for retail by March 2017 at the latest. I still think November 2016 personally.
KinofChaos
Banned
Then it will cost 600 bucks lol, if the 6 tflops target is true.
Dude c'mon now?
They can't with current technology?
The GPU they are supposed to be using is 5.5 TFLOP stock.
Man this is embarrassing.
Dude the card is $199 for consumers...
kingwingin
Member
Where did you come up with that price?
Art Vandilay
Member
Don't forget #creativechatter
KinofChaos
Banned
They can but right now that would cost them a lot more then neo, thats the point. Also thats desktop TFLOPS, won't be the same in a console due to heat issues.
Thin air.
Running a $200(consumer price) card at it's default TFLOP doesn't somehow cost $600 in a console.
A console is more then capable of providing cooling requirements for PC grade GPUs. The Xbox One has better cooling then my Alienware X51 which can use a GTX 980.
Where are you getting this price from?
Jessie.Bristol
Member
Yup, console manufacturers (and PC manufacturers) get those gpu's and cpu's at a significant discount. They don't pay retail prices for them.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
MS is all but guaranteed to take a hit on this thing. Won't be more than $449. Bank on it. You underestimate the Surface team too btw.
The 480 retail is 199. A custom raw version won't be costing MS anywhere near that much. But regardless, MS will eat a bit initially on this box knowing it will last and they'll make money on it pretty quick.
KinofChaos
Banned
You underestimate Sony BTW...MS won;t be taking much or a loss, those days are gone and Neo won't be 449, and will be out earlier if the leaks are true.
I'm thinking $399 max.
If Microsoft want to recover from lost marketshare they need to take as much of a loss on cost as possible.
It's not even close to $200. They don't need the card's cooling, logic board, ports...etc. and they'll buy in mass bulk.
Not sure there's much point in arguing with King though, it feels like he's trying to downplay anything Xbox.
presagetogood
Member
Polaris is the 5.5tf GPU revealed this week by AMD, with a much higher clock rate than has been confirmed in Neo dev kits. It is believed that Scorpio will launch with a version of Vega or a different version of Polaris than what was released this week.
All that being said, Scorpio was presented to devs, and the leaks draw the same conclusion, Scorpio will release next year with an upgraded Zen CPU. Zen is not included in Neo dev kits.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Huh? I didn't even mention Sony. Who the fuck is talking about Sony here? You seem to be driving an agenda here man
I think $399 too. I said it many pages ago. I'm just saying they wouldn't go over $449 as a ceiling. They'll take a hit if they have to.
KinofChaos
Banned
This...it is a pipe dream MS is going to launch close to neo, way more powerful and same price or cheaper.
I never mentioned the surface team either, there was no point in bringing it up so I brought out a counter point.
Speculating over hardware is downplaying? Second time I have seen you get very defensive and sensitive over silliness. Scorpio sounds like a beast, no doubt, but launching cheaper and same time or shortly after neo is silly talk.
BeforeU
Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
I dont think Surface team will have any direct input into the console. They already have shit ton under their head to look after, supporting current Surface devices, which btw they are doing fine job. And also next version of Surface devices. Pro 5, Book 2 and most likely a Phone.
Which not bad btw, Surface team is known for pushing the innovation, creating new catagory of devices. making premium and aspirational windows products. They probably have no experience in designing a gaming console.
But I do have faith in Panos. His input, in whatever way it will be. Hopefully its impactful. And Xbox team already is very well tenanted.
I just listened to his podcast to be sure.
Well the PS4 did it... why can't MS with this next Xbox?
There's just no way this machine is launching over $399. Phil isn't stupid. Pricing it over $399 is stupid.
The original leaker of the neo on here (OsirisBlack) said last he heard Neo was due out March 2017 aswell though so who knows what's going on a this point
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Um. The Surface team is making this console. Seems relevant to bring them up.
Pretty sure MS has said Surface team designs all hardware now.
KinofChaos
Banned
Because Sony won;t build their system around kinect and TV features,
Sony is making the NEO, one of the worlds best electronics companies.
Brad Sams specifically said he didn't know a date for Scorpio.
the TV stuff was software except HDMI in which probably cost them pennies to put in, TV features is irrelevant to the hardware cost.
Kinect is a good point but that doesn't change the fact both was $399 with a ~50% power difference even excluding the Kinect
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
But I never brought up Sony. We're talking about the Scorpio. From Microsoft. I don't get why you're bringing up Sony. Especially when quoting me. I never brought them up.
KinofChaos
Banned
Umm no. Kinect drove the cost up meaning less room for hardware costs and all the focus on TV integration led to them using DDR3 for multitasking. These things led directly to x1 being weaker.
The 3 OS's take up resources that could have gone to gaming but MS wanted TV integration.
kingwingin
Member
but rumours point towards neo being the result of sony trying to make a slim ps4 and being forced to upgrade the chips in order to keep cost down. They werent going towards making a powerful new system. I cant see it being expensive
Im sure MS was forced down the same path while wanting to slimline their console but chose to dial it up to 11.
He relayed what one source said and he clearly says spring 2017. He admits he doesn't know himself if that's true.
Just KinofChaos. I think the majority of people after the 480 reveal kinda realized it's a very plausible build at ~$399.
KinofChaos
Banned
Not sure , maybe I am missing something, doesn't a system consists more then the GPU, the NEO is also supposed to use the same GPU, so where is the scorpios extra TFLOPs come from? ZEN, as currently it's not possible with the jaguar CPU. In order for Scorpio to launch at 6 tflops same time as neo it will need a new CPU, how would BC work? What CPU currently? It would most like;y be Zen which means launching much later then NEO, am I missing something?
See above, a system is more then the GPU.
Just so you know how it is for the current Xbox One so you don;t continue throwing around price tags.
.
therealbigrich
Member
Based on all the speculation I've seen the most plausible scenario to me is Neo released this year. Using the new AMD gpu and older jaguar cpu with a lower clock speed to get something out that will do PS VR well and perform well in general for 399. I could definitely see Scorpio released next year with a new gpu and higher clock that's able to be 5-6 TFlops for 399 but not this year.
BeforeU
Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
come on now, that's not how it works. So according to you, what happened to those engineers who has been in Xbox team for almost 2 decades? Suddenly Surface team is more qualified, and will take control, school those guys?
Microsoft had small individual hardware teams before without a proper management. Xbox, Phone, PC Accessories, Surface team. Satya unified them all. and assigned them under one head. Panos Panay.
Surface team won't start making Xbox or PC accessories. All those teams will do their own thing, but of course Panos is over seeing each teams. Which is pretty exciting since he is very talented, passionate and innovative.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Panos was formerly Surface lead no? He's now Hardware lead. As far as I'm concerned, that's effectively the same as Surface team designing new Xbox. No different Ives being at the head of hardware at Apple.
I think what BeforeU is saying is that its likely there are hardware folks that were formerly Xbox who are now technically on the "surface" team that still probably focus on Xbox. On paper it's "the surface team" but really it's likely folks that worked on Xbox before
KinofChaos
Banned
I just got to say Panos Panay is a bad ass name.
therealbigrich
Member
Seems like a big difference to me personally. It only takes O e person with a different vision to change everything. If he is new head of HW then whoever he replaced I'm guessing had a different idea for how Xbox one should look when I was mad
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
I totally get that. But Panos will be exerting his influence over the team. I mean, it's no different to Ive being credited with all hardware involving Apple. I'm sure there's still different individual teams that work on the Phone, iPad, MacBook etc. But Ive gets the credit.
With Panos overseeing, the Slim and Pro (what I think it will be called, Xbox One Pro) will look vastly different than they would have had Panos not been involved.
BeforeU
Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
Yes you are right, Panos was the guy behind Surface hardware. Then it became popular and he got even a bigger role. Now Microsoft Hardware Lead but then again Xbox team is Xbox team and Surface team is surface team. Both have different jobs, they both have different deliverables. They are both good at what they do. Panos is looking after Xbox - Yes, just like he looking after other hardware teams at MS but Surface team is not designing next Xbox.
I honestly think Xbox team is great, they just needed a good management. Now they have both Phil and Panos. I think they will kill it.
I agree
Number one, Sony in particular has little to fear as far as 'goodnight' goes, because a majority of their userbase(only 1/3rd of users buy from North America) don't care about what Xbox is selling regardless of the power.
Number two, at launch, people were against MS from before that and largely were not going to be buying Xbox with their horrible marketing regardless of how close XB1 got to PS4. The power differential in actual practice just exacerbated it.
If you think devs are going to start targeting Scorpio as to make all other 3 systems in the marketplace run like crap, you're being naive as to what actually moves the industry.
Number 3, Neo will be out a year before Scorpio. If you think that people are expecting better or similar performance from a unit that will launch a full 12 months behind the competition, your not thinking straight.
...Scatter...
Banned
I mean...AMD really just showed off a GPU that can do that now coming out in June for $225 MSRP to consumers. I guess we could ignore that.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Im telling you this will not be the case. 3 months max.
KinofChaos
Banned
You can ignore this post too then?
Originally Posted by KinofChaos
Not sure , maybe I am missing something, doesn't a system consists more then the GPU, the NEO is also supposed to use the same GPU, so where is the scorpios extra TFLOPs come from? ZEN, as currently it's not possible with the jaguar CPU. In order for Scorpio to launch at 6 tflops same time as neo it will need a new CPU, how would BC work? What CPU currently? It would most like;y be Zen which means launching much later then NEO, am I missing something?
See above, a system is more then the GPU.
Based on what? Hopes and Dreams? Based on what we know and rumors this seems unlike;y.
Even 3 months WW is not good for scorpio.
Art Vandilay
Member
As much as I'd like to see this, you seem way too confident given what we know so far.
kingwingin
Member
neo is clocked at 900mhz and scorpio will be the running the full 1200.
KinofChaos
Banned
Is this finalised though? The other thread said NEO specs are not. Thanks for the clarification though, I did not know this, appreciate the response instead of condescension and people getting defensive. Still doesn't come near making up the TFLOP gap.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
I'm confident based on common sense.
I'm working under the assumption that Phil Spencer meant what he said about trying to make the Xbox One legitimately successful. If they're serious about this thing doing well, no way known they release 1 year later. They might as well not release at all.
Given that the 480 and Zen are ready for shipping THIS YEAR, why would a console whose architecture is based around those products be releasing 18 months from now?
Makes zero sense. March 2017 is my worst case scenario release for the Pro.