Support NeoGAF

[The Artisan]

We have a solution to aspects of the gun problem, we don't have solutions to the other. People have been placing it a top priority for sometime, nothing is working.

what is your solution to the gun problem? these mass murders keep on happening.

You would need to go through a lot more, with a lot more training and preparation, to commit this act without a gun.

There is a reason he had to dig back 21 years to find an example. The existence of 9/11 or OKC doesn't really have any relevance to why gun control should or shouldn't happen is my point.

fair enough. I'm not saying guns aren't an issue. my point in most of my posts in this thread is that radical islam is just as serious of an issue.

...Also, taking no side is essentially taking the side of the status quo. Thats like saying I am taking no side amidst the struggle for gay marriage. I will just stay out of it. Staying out of it is just an endorsement for the status quo through inaction.

...well that's my problem, not yours. it's something i have to deal with myself, so let's not make this personal.

 

[Epsilon-delta]

If that were the case, we'd still have slavery legal, women and non-whites wouldn't be allowed to vote and other things like that. They're called amendments because they can be amended. They're not iron clad and unshakeable.

But the 2nd amendment seems to be iron clad and unshakeable in this day and age.

 

[everyday math]

Thanks for the well wishes. We just heard back from him and thank God he's safe. Turns out that he and some friends were indeed at the club earlier but left before the shooting. He's pretty shaken and trying to track down some friends that stayed behind. I'm praying that they turn up safe too.

That's awesome news. I hope his friends are ok.

 

[oatmeal]

Have any details of what went down come out?

The France concert shooting had the killers enter and then start executing, and were afforded time to keep going because the cops outside thought it was a hostage situation.

This one sounds similar (when I went to bed last night it had just started), as I had read hostages.

Just curious to see how it ballooned so fast. Have there been eyewitness reports?

 

[Disxo]

A religion of peace and love.

Sure, the bible has sooo much love in it.
/S

 

[Chiggs]

Do we have a serious conversation about radicalized Christianity and want to ban all Christians the next time some deranged white guy shoots people up?

No, of course we don't, because America has Christian roots. Not saying that's fair or intellectually honest, but it is the reality of the situation.

 

[Auctopus]

Went out today when this news had just broke. Coming back to this is unbelievable.

 

[meanspartan]

That is great to hear! I have the same exact situation. My guns are stored very very safe.

I think this guy who killed all those poor people.....Was gonna use whatever he could, to get the job done. If he did not have access to a gun. He might of made pipe bombs instead.

The point is, nothing was going to stop this nutter with a shit radical ideology that oppresses homosexuals, women and beliefs. This should be the real discussion. But neogaf cares more about taking away our guns, than the issue at hand here.

Let's be real though, as gun owners we have to admit to the capability, the power, of the weapons we own, especially an AR 15.

Could he have made a bomb? Sure. But ultimately a high capacity weapon, even semi-auto, is the most straightforward way of killing a bunch of people especially in a tight setting.

We can't just knee-jerk get defensive of our weapons (and ya, I like my AR 15 a lot), we have to be willing to work with reformers on reasonable regulation. In the end, it'll be good for us. Responsible gun owners should be what people think of when they think AR 15, or we are screwed long term.

 

[Audioboxer]

Thanks for the well wishes. We just heard back from him and thank God he's safe. Turns out that he and some friends were indeed at the club earlier but left before the shooting. He's pretty shaken and trying to track down some friends that stayed behind. I'm praying that they turn up safe too.

Good, but sorry about his friends.

 

[Already Torn]

Sad to say, I'm starting to "hate" too.

Hate Christians, hate Muslims, hate homophobes, hate racists, hate anyone whose belief in dumb fairy tales, stupid ideologies and imaginary beings causes them to be a threat to other human beings. And I do mean hate. I can no longer imagine empathy for their dead bodies whether man woman or child. That is hate.

I'm tired of their dangerous delusions and I'm ashamed to have been raised in a "book" religion myself before coming to my senses. All of the architects of the homophobic order are responsible for this, not just the foot soldiers. Fuck guns. It's the people and the society. Nobody praises the pen for Shakespeare's Macbeth or the chisel for Michelangelo's David. Blaming the gun is a copout.

I'm not trying to troll, and I suppose I will calm down a little but I'm more angry than sad to have awoken to this. My mind's eye is conjuring up cheerful images of a razed church or mosque. I tell it not to be silly, but it is a seductive image. How many are as mad as I am but will not be able to restrain themselves? Rights have always been ransomed with blood.

R.I.P

I hope you do calm down.

 

[Cromwell]

Rick Scott is also a blabbering piece of shit.

Yup.

 

[ThisGuy]

Seems like this person was violent to begin with and then (possibly) turned to radical Islam.

Ex-wife of suspected Orlando shooter: ‘He beat me’ - The Washington Post

A mentally disturbed person who should have never been a guard. We seriously need gun control, mental health institutions, and respect for your fellow person.

That'll stop as soon as racism ends...

This is America the land of a lot ignorant people, racism and homophobia will never go away in this country.

It's disgusting, if people weren't so distant from one another. If people were around gays/different races, most of them wouldnt have such a strong hatred. It's so saddening that people have to actually live in fear of a mass shooting over love. It's ridiculous.

 

[therealist]

If that were the case, we'd still have slavery legal, women and non-whites wouldn't be allowed to vote and other things like that. They're called amendments because they can be amended. They're not iron clad and unshakeable.

The difference is that in all of those instances, you are granting rights to people and increasing liberty. Amending the 2nd amendment only means stripping away rights, and that is a touchy subject.

Imagine if you were to advocate an amendment that would remove people's right to vote, that would cause controversy.

 

[CountAntonius]

Waking up to see the number of deaths climb to 50 is shocking. Rest in peace.

 

[linkboy]

By 'banning' Muslims you serve only to radicalise more people abroad into hating your country. By allowing Muslims into your county, or in our case Muslim refugees fleeing Syria, you actually dent the ISIS cause, as it serves to remind unconverted Muslims abroad that you aren't the devil nation that ISIS members portray you as.

This is why we should never have dropped bombs on Syria. It plays into the hands of fundamentalists. You are never going to win the war that way.

Yep, but considering the "war on terror" is just a crock of shit to keep the military complex rolling, having an entity like ISIS around is a damn good way to keep the money flow coming in.

 

[KingBroly]

You're implying something that's extremely bigoted.

I'm not. I simply wanted to provide more information to people because this may be their first and only avenue for information about this issue because they want to keep up.

 

[The Artisan]

Yes, it is that simple. No one is arguing that preventing individuals on the terrorist watch list from purchasig guns, or an assault weapons ban, is going to end shootings in this country.

But it very well may have prevented this one. Should we do nothing because this provision doesn't end all gun violence?

if it's so simple then why do these mass murders keep happening so much? as in, if it is so simple to change gun laws - because doesn't seem so simple

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

What? That's insane if true. Are you saying that because of the American second amendment the FBI literally has to sit on their hands even if they have evidence that a person on a terrorist watch list has just made a fire arm purchase?

Not the 2nd amendment, but the politicians in the pocket of the gun lobby. You can walk into a store and pass a background check if you are on the terrorist watch list.

 

[michaelius]

The main problem is any and everybody being able to buy killing machines extremely easily and being able to carry out their extreme views.

Not really - just a few weeks ago a guy attempted bomb attack in Poland. He put together a bomb using freely accessible parts (including nails etc) and planted it in the bus.

The only reason no one died was because he put it into bright colored plastic bag and bomb started emitting smoke due to small mistake in chemicals.

 

[Dark Cloud]

This guy was already beating his wife. He had mental problems from the beginning.

 

[faceless007]

Seems like this person was violent to begin with and then (possibly) turned to radical Islam.

Ex-wife of suspected Orlando shooter: ‘He beat me’ - The Washington Post

Literally all the article says about radical Islam is that there's no evidence he turned to radical Islam.

 

[_Nemo]

I'm not. I simply wanted to provide more information to people because this may be their first and only avenue for information about this issue because they want to keep up.

lol, this guy.

 

[manfestival]

This is pretty crazy. I looked at my Facebook and I see friends posting about friends being shot and killed. Pretty wild to see something like this so close to home. My heart goes out to Orlando and the people there.

 

[Maxim726X]

if it's so simple then why do these mass murders keep happening so much? as in, if it is so simple to change gun laws - because doesn't seem so simple

... What?

How the fuck would we know if none of these laws never get passed??

 

[N° 2048]

Ugh I can't even look at the picture of that piece of shit in that article w/ his ex-wife.

I want to punch my screen.

 

[InfiniteBento]

CVS's around Orlando are donating water to people standing 3+ hours in line to donate blood.

Really great how the community is coming together to help each other through this.

 

[linkboy]

The difference is that in all of those instances, you are granting rights to people and increasing liberty. Amending the 2nd amendment only means stripping away rights, and that is a touchy subject.

Imagine if you were to advocate an amendment that would remove people's right to vote, that would cause controversy.

Some states are essentially doing that already with their stupid Voter ID laws.

There's ways to implement gun control without amending the 2nd. However, it's impossible to have a discussion on the subject when one group (the NRA and their supporters) won't even step up to the table.

It's like trying to negotiate with a 2yr. No matter how hard you try, you're going to fail.

 

[Sephzilla]

Jesus Christ the count is 50 people!?!?

This tragedy is sadly showing me who I need to delete from mY Facebook list

 

[Already Torn]

Not really - just a few weeks ago a guy attempted bomb attack in Poland. He put together a bomb using freely accessible parts (including nails etc) and planted it in the bus.

The only reason no one died was because he put it into bright colored plastic bag and bomb started emitting smoke due to small mistake in chemicals.

IE the only reason 50 people didn't die was because he didn't have something as good at killing people as an assault rifle.

 

[Alavard]

There is absolutely no reason to think an attack like this (Islamist terrorism) would be curtailed if we had more strict gun laws. The attacks in Europe should make this evident. The biggest issue BY FAR is Islamism.

This shooter was on a watch list, but could legally purchase guns. I think there's a very good chance legislation preventing those on watch lists from purchasing guns would have helped prevent this.

 

[Majmun]

Gun control is a obvious valid discussion . But, let's talk about the obvious motivation which is by far the biggest reason of this massacre.

It's plain obvious again the problem with Islamic scripture.

"And (remember) Lut: behold, he said to his people: "Ye do commit lewdness, such as no people in Creation (ever) committed before you. "Do ye indeed approach men, and cut off the highway?- and practise wickedness (even) in your councils?" But his people gave no answer but this: they said: "Bring us the Wrath of Allah if thou tellest the truth." He said: "O my Lord! help Thou me against people who do mischief!" When Our Messengers came to Abraham with the good news, they said: "We are indeed going to destroy the people of this township: for truly they are (addicted to) crime."
Qur'an 29:28"

Hadith

"Narated By Abdullah ibn Abbas : The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: If you find anyone doing as Lot's people did, kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done.
Abu Dawud 38:4447"

Disgusting.

 

[R10Neymarfan]

Sad to say, I'm starting to "hate" too.

Hate Christians, hate Muslims, hate homophobes, hate racists, hate anyone whose belief in dumb fairy tales, stupid ideologies and imaginary beings causes them to be a threat to other human beings. And I do mean hate. I can no longer imagine empathy for their dead bodies whether man woman or child. That is hate.

I'm tired of their dangerous delusions and I'm ashamed to have been raised in a "book" religion myself before coming to my senses. All of the architects of the homophobic order are responsible for this, not just the foot soldiers. Fuck guns. It's the people and the society. Nobody praises the pen for Shakespeare's Macbeth or the chisel for Michelangelo's David. Blaming the gun is a copout.

I'm not trying to troll, and I suppose I will calm down a little but I'm more angry than sad to have awoken to this. My mind's eye is conjuring up cheerful images of a razed church or mosque. I tell it not to be silly, but it is a seductive image. How many are as mad as I am but will not be able to restrain themselves? Rights have always been ransomed with blood.

R.I.P

+1 that was brave to speak your mind, hope you don't get banned. I do agree with most of these things, however we aren't the majority though :/

 

[Boke1879]

Literally all the article says about radical Islam is that there's no evidence he turned to radical Islam.

Yup. Seemed to be an unstable person to begin with. Shouldn't have ever had a gun. Could have easily killed his ex wife one day.

 

[LNBL]

Seems like this person was violent to begin with and then (possibly) turned to radical Islam.

Ex-wife of suspected Orlando shooter: ‘He beat me’ - The Washington Post

Where in the article does it hint towards him turning to radical islam exactly?

 

[kamspy]

Gun control is a obvious valid discussion . But, let's talk about the obvious motivation which is by far the biggest reason of this massacre.

It's plain obvious again the problem with Islamic scripture.

"And (remember) Lut: behold, he said to his people: "Ye do commit lewdness, such as no people in Creation (ever) committed before you. "Do ye indeed approach men, and cut off the highway?- and practise wickedness (even) in your councils?" But his people gave no answer but this: they said: "Bring us the Wrath of Allah if thou tellest the truth." He said: "O my Lord! help Thou me against people who do mischief!" When Our Messengers came to Abraham with the good news, they said: "We are indeed going to destroy the people of this township: for truly they are (addicted to) crime."
Qur'an 29:28"

Hadith

"Narated By Abdullah ibn Abbas : The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: If you find anyone doing as Lot's people did, kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done.
Abu Dawud 38:4447"

This boggles my mind.

 

[nOoblet16]

That is great to hear! I have the same exact situation. My guns are stored very very safe.

I think this guy who killed all those poor people.....Was gonna use whatever he could, to get the job done. If he did not have access to a gun. He might of made pipe bombs instead.

The point is, nothing was going to stop this nutter with a shit radical ideology that oppresses homosexuals, women and beliefs. This should be the real discussion. But neogaf cares more about taking away our guns, than the issue at hand here.

Not having guns help.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

what is your solution to the gun problem? these mass murders keep on happening.

Ban on hi-cap magazines, ban AR-15 style weapons, limited/full background checks on all firearm purchases to start with. All of which is exceptionally reasonable.

I can walk across the street and buy an AR-15 or any other legal firearm without a single background check.

See a partial solution to make this better.

if it's so simple then why do these mass murders keep happening so much? as in, if it is so simple to change gun laws - because doesn't seem so simple

It is simple, but no one wants to do it because it is never a problem with guns. It is always, fucking always something else.

 

[Disxo]

This guy was already beating his wife. He had mental problems from the beginning.

Nah, Gaf preferms to blame Islam.

 

[jstripes]

Something needs to be done about homophobia in America. It's far too accepted. It's horrifying when a group of people are targeted like this. I feel/fear for homosexuals. The speeches we're going to hear from some people who practice certain religions and follow a specific party are going to be terrible. We have got to figure out how to accept others.

Something is being done about it. Things are way different now than they were 20 years ago.

When I was in high school in the '90s, out of 1,200 students, exactly zero were openly gay. The ones who may possibly have been gay were generally loners. Now my daughter is in high school, and there are numerous openly gay students, and some are her friends. They tend to be popular and have large circles of friends. (At least here, anyway)

What's going on could be a side-effect of the growing acceptance. The LGBT community is much more open and visible nowadays, and the minority of extreme conservative bigots are having a difficult time dealing with that. What was once hidden is now right in front of them, and they hate it.

As years go on and acceptance continues to grow, you'll still have the extreme bigots, but hopefully they'll have grown used to the LGBT community being so out in the open that they won't have such a hard time dealing with it.

That takes time. But trivial access to guns makes things a whole lot worse in the meantime.

 

[N° 2048]

This tragedy is sadly showing me who I need to delete from mY Facebook list

Deleting Facebook was one of the best decisions I've ever made in my life.

 

[old manatee]

I wish we could outlaw anything with a clip. Let people own a .38 special for home defense and concealed carry, and a basic shotgun and bolt-action rifle for hunting, target practice and overthrowing the government.

There is absolutely no defense for a system that lets a lone homophobic maniac possess the firepower to take down 100 adults before being overwhelmed.

No one is being attacked by 100 coyotes in the woods. No one is defending their homes against 100 intruders. No liquor store is being robbed by 100 people. It's completely fucking ridiculous.

 

[Shake Appeal]

If you are born in the United States, you are American. Can we stop undermining or shrugging aside citizenship based on heritage, color, religion, etc.? It is literally the work of white supremacy.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

Literally all the article says about radical Islam is that there's no evidence he turned to radical Islam.

It also says he wasn't religious.

 

[everyday math]

I know we're trying to avoid idiotic statements on the Internet. But Trumps latest tweet IMO is extremely dangerous.

 

[Zapages]

Yet I see a certain pattern in this case

Acknowledging the problem and naming it publicly and persistently would be start. Way too many public figures are not even doing that. Make this a hot topic to support those who want ideological reform and put pressure on those who don't or who see no problem.

/edit: For instance, let's loose patience with statements like this:



Anyone who spends a few minutes researching what the Qur'an and especially the Hadith have to say on the issue of homosexuality would not try to deflect all blame from the doctrine.

Once again, no one in Islam has the right to judge anyone in Islam. In Islam, only God can judge anyone.

Before you go up about Islam and homosexuality. A Mosque in Toronto be open to everyone including non-Muslims and the LGBT community during the holy month of Ramadan:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/unity-mosque-peace-iftar-toronto-1.3630935

 

[red capsule]

i'm looking at pictures of this guy (if I'm looking at the correct ones of course)
and he looks like the biggest tool in the world

still shocked that this was a one person job

Sadly, the only thing I see coming out of this is stereotypes just escalating even more

 

[kiguel182]

Sad to see islamophobia starting to appear. Again.

Comparing this mad men to an organized attack by a terrorist organization to justify the lack of gun control in the US is also sad. Just a bunch of false analogies to shift the blame around.

There bad Muslims like there are bad Christians and bad everyone else. Don't use this as an excuse to hate an entire group of people.

 

[TaterTots]

I think its sad that I wasn't even phased when I discovered this news. It's just another day here in America. Mass shootings no longer surprise me, in fact, I expect them. It's fucked up. RIP to the lives lost.

On gun control; Lets stop pretending guns will be banned. There are too many in circulation right now. The only thing we can hope for is stricter gun laws.

 

[therealist]

Some states are essentially doing that already with their stupid Voter ID laws.

There's ways to implement gun control without amending the 2nd. However, it's impossible to have a discussion on the subject when one group (the NRA and their supporters) won't even step up to the table.

It's like trying to negotiate with a 2yr. No matter how hard you try, you're going to fail.

I agree and hate guns but I honestly think those people have a solid point. I don't support voter ID laws because it limits a constitutional right, would I be a hypocrite if I supported any law whatsoever that limits a constitutional right to bear arms?

That is why the NRA have all of the leverage right now in this debate.

 

[ElTorro]

This boggles my mind.

The world would be different if people actually made an effort to read the "holy books" they are defending front to back and maybe with some objective scholarly commentary.