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[2MF]

As a published researcher I thank you for your description but no this is not how statistical significance is calculated.

So how would you do it? And do you actually know what you're talking about, or you just want to think that I'm wrong?

I'll be happy to learn something, if you have any valuable input. But as far as I know, the binomial distribution is exactly what would be applied here. There are tutorials and explanations in the link I posted, by the way.

 

[Gunslinger]

Man how savages can some people become over religion. Religion sells outdated ideology. I can't believe in 2016 people take them as literal teachings. As a Muslim person I am so ashamed and depressed after hearing about this and so sorry for all the innocents lives that were lost....

I think religion is a personal "belief" and should stay like that. It should never influence any action that involves other people. If I believe in religion then I must believe the same God that created me created LGBT human beings too. We are all same species. They have just as much as right as I have as all are created equal. This whole Isis thing is gone out of hand and must be stopped. We can't be losing innocent lives like this because of some religious nuts. Man this thing made me upset all day long...my question is why? What can be gained from this? Why kill innocents? /sigh...

 

[A Link to the Past]

This is a textbook example of why a rational debate on firearms cannot happen in America. Good luck getting gun owners to support more regulation when all you want is to destroy their hobby, and you shit on them all the fucking time.

Oh for goodness sake. So it's not that people are sick to death of the fact that guns are dangerous to so many people (kids, innocent bystanders, LGBT people, people at risk of suicide, etc.), it's "fuck gun owners"? I realize that Nekofrog is getting unfortunately vitriolic, but you need to realize that the source of the vitriol is seeing these stories day-in day-out and not being able to do anything to stop it.

And yet you think an outright ban wouldn't result in the deaths of thousands. How cute.

Well I mean, is there evidence that suggests that a gun ban would result in that? From what I've seen, states with more legally acquired firearms have a greater degree of unlawful discharges.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

I'm personally in favor of gun control, as well, but if this attack was motivated by ISIS, realistically, more gun control wouldn't have prevented it. Either he would have resorted to homemade bombs or, if he had a legitimate connection to ISIS, he may have been provided weapons illegally. Although, I suppose it may have reduced the scope of the attack.

Homemade bombs are much less likely to be successful than precision manufactured weapons. A lot of people are also caught when buying the ingredients to make one. Also, any time you are dealing with black market weapons and things like that there's a chance you get busted before the transaction is made, undercover officers, etc. It just makes it more difficult and less likely, I can't imagine how that could be denied.

 

[AnathemicOne]

This is a textbook example of why a rational debate on firearms cannot happen in America. Good luck getting gun owners to support more regulation when all you want is to destroy their hobby, and you shit on them all the fucking time.

Sorry, but when a hobby, any hobby, is a leading cause/factor in people killing each other, then I don't particularly give a fuck about it nor the people who enjoy it. Archery is still a hobby but people don't get outraged because people don't fucking kill each other with bow and arrows on a routine basis.

 

[Chococat]

The FBI/CIA/US Gov't fucked up by not getting this asshole sooner.

Don't blame the government when it is the people who are making easy for mentally unstable people like this guy to walk in a buy the guns with no issue days before committing this crime.

 

[timetokill]

Stop, okay, please. It isn't authoritarian to understand that 'rights' have limitations and restrictions.

What you are saying is rather offensive, especially at this time. You are basically saying we are the cause of this, no?

No, he's saying that being scared and emotional and immediately rushing to authoritarian means to "solve" the problem is anti-liberal. It's how you get things like the Patriot Act, the TSA security theatre, and other abhorrent things done in the name of "safety."

He's not saying anybody here is the cause of this awful event. Don't make it so personal.

 

[The Broken Ska Record]

The line in Orlando to donate blood.

That's fantastic.

 

[Switch Back 9]

Excuse me if this is insensitive, but I would like to know if the person that tweeted their mother made it out alive?

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

True, but video games are not made for the purpose of ending life. 'Lest you want to kill someone by smashing a video game case in their face repeatedly.

I could replace gaming with archery then, which has a lot of controversy not attached to it. Bows and crossbows can kill people too, and have been used to kill for thousands of years.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Don't blame the government when it is the people who are making easy for mentally unstable people like this guy to walk in a buy the guns with no issue days before committing this crime.

FBI had him on their radar but they can't just hold a guy for no crime. Unfortunately, they also can't do a damn thing to his ability to purchase weapons and large magazines. I doubt they are even alerted.

 

[A Link to the Past]

I could replace gaming with archery then, which has a lot of controversy not attached to it. Bows and crossbows can kill people too, and have been used to kill for thousands of years.

Bows and crossbows are less effective, more unwieldy, and are not being designed in ways that make them more dangerous and more effective. It's not a valid comparison.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

Sorry, but when a hobby, any hobby, is a leading cause/factor in people killing each other, then I don't particularly give a fuck about it nor the people who enjoy it.

The vast majority of gun owners are responsible adults who quite candidly support common sense limitations. You are not helping any more than the individuals who toss out blanket statements on all Muslims.

 

[Steel]

Excuse me if this is insensitive, but I would like to know if the person that tweeted their mother made it out alive?

Answered on a previous page, no one in that bathroom survived.

 

[Sephzilla]

I'm personally in favor of gun control, as well, but if this attack was motivated by ISIS, realistically, more gun control wouldn't have prevented it. Either he would have resorted to homemade bombs or, if he had a legitimate connection to ISIS, he may have been provided weapons illegally. Although, I suppose it may have reduced the scope of the attack.

If he was an atheist, this doesn't happen. Period. If we had better gun control, the bomb around his chest goes off.

I don't think either of you are wrong here (though I'm not sure about the atheist part). He likely would have tried with other means. That being said, I don't think that is a viable excuse for making it easier for someone like him to commit a mass murder like this. Regardless of the reasons for why he did this, the lax American gun acquisition process actively made his end goal a lot easier to achieve and that should not be acceptable.

 

[Piggus]

Oh for goodness sake. So it's not that people are sick to death of the fact that guns are dangerous to so many people (kids, innocent bystanders, LGBT people, people at risk of suicide, etc.), it's "fuck gun owners"? I realize that Nekofrog is getting unfortunately vitriolic, but you need to realize that the source of the vitriol is seeing these stories day-in day-out and not being able to do anything to stop it.

Hint: blaming and generalizing gun owners and advocating that their property be forcefully siezed isn't how you stop it.

 

[Renekton]

As a published researcher I thank you for your description but no this is not how statistical significance is calculated.

Since you keep declining to explain...

 

[platakul]

And yet you think an outright ban wouldn't result in the deaths of thousands. How cute.

It...wouldn't

 

[A Link to the Past]

Hint: blaming and generalizing gun owners and advocating that their property be forcefully siezed isn't how you stop it.

There would obviously need to be a slow and methodical roll out. An outright ban wouldn't work right away; we would need a program designed to incentivize gun owners to bring in their guns and be compensated with new firearms (and perhaps a cash incentive) that are less dangerous and have more up-to-date technology.

 

[Nekofrog]

Hint: blaming and generalizing gun owners and advocating that their property be forcefully siezed isn't how you stop it.

We're past the stage of tiptoeing around the "poor gun owners" feelings about their stupid killtoys.

 

[HykCraft]

Let's talk about how the Orlando shooting was a hoax using crisis actors staging the event by Hollywood and the g-men.

 

[AnathemicOne]

The vast majority of gun owners are responsible adults who quite candidly support common sense limitations. You are not helping any more than the individuals who toss out blanket statements on all Muslims.

Then the vast majority of gun owners should invest in politics and demand gun regulations; the vast majority of gun owners shouldn't concede to the NRA being the posterboy for their hobby; the vast majority of gun owners should realize that the ease of access to their hobby is a dangerous thing.

 

[Keri]

Homemade bombs are much less likely to be successful than precision manufactured weapons. A lot of people are also caught when buying the ingredients to make one. Also, any time you are dealing with black market weapons and things like that there's a chance you get busted before the transaction is made, undercover officers, etc. It just makes it more difficult and less likely, I can't imagine how that could be denied.

That's true. The thought did occur to me, that it would have been more likely he'd be caught beforehand. Yet still, we've seen numerous successful attacks in recent years, even in countries with much stricter gun controls than the U.S. So, if the motivation and organization exists, attacks will always occur. This isn't an argument for not instituting gun controls, I just think we're being overly optimistic, in assuming gun controls would completely solve or eliminate this problem. It won't.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

No, he's saying that being scared and emotional and immediately rushing to authoritarian means to "solve" the problem is anti-liberal. It's how you get things like the Patriot Act, the TSA security theatre, and other abhorrent things done in the name of "safety."

He's not saying anybody here is the cause of this awful event. Don't make it so personal.

The vast majority aren't rushing to authoritarian means, not that basic gun control is somehow authoritarian. Again, the vast majority are asking for basic and common sense gun control.

Then the vast majority of gun owners should invest in politics and demand gun regulations; the vast majority of gun owners shouldn't concede to the NRA being the posterboy for their hobby; the vast majority of gun owners should realize that the ease of access to their hobby is a dangerous thing.

I can agree with this.

 

[shoreu]

You're wrong - you're trying to use this tragedy to push a gun control agenda. this was motivated by religion and terrorism and hatred by a hateful religious homophobe.

The FBI/CIA/US Gov't fucked up by not getting this asshole sooner.

if he didn't have the guns to commit the massacre we wouldn't be having this conversation

 

[timetokill]

It...wouldn't

There would absolutely be violence if the government decided to suddenly throw out an amendment and a fundamental right.

If you're talking about doing it through the actual process, then sure, maybe not, but we're nowhere near having the popular support for that, so it's moot.

The vast majority aren't rushing to authoritarian means, not that basic gun control is somehow authoritarian. Again, the vast majority are asking for basic and common sense gun control.

People asking for common sense gun control clearly aren't the subjects of that message, though. By talking about "taking your rights away" and therefore obviously talking about the multitude of people in here calling for a gun ban.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Since you keep declining to explain...

But they explained it already, near the top of the page

 

[Chococat]

FBI had him on their radar but they can't just hold a guy for no crime. Unfortunately, they also can't do a damn thing to his ability to purchase weapons and large magazines. I doubt they are even alerted.

Yup, I saw that. My point was, when he went to purchase the guns for this crime, it was opportunity to have stopped this guy legally if gun regulations were more stringent. If he was mental unstable as his wife said, a proper check could have flagged him.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

Bows and crossbows are less effective, more unwieldy, and are not being designed in ways that make them more dangerous and more effective. It's not a valid comparison.

Modern crossbows are pretty much copying elements from firearm design, though. Also, I am devastated to hear that nobody in that bathroom survived.

This thing is legal in most countries without a license, btw. I could buy this thing tomorrow on the internet and nobody would care. They're even less regulated in terms of power than airguns are.

 

[Switch Back 9]

Answered on a previous page, no one in that bathroom survived.

Oh jeeze...

 

[Piggus]

We're past the stage of tiptoeing around the "poor gun owners" feelings about their stupid killtoys.

You're right, we've reached the stage of ranting and generalizing without contributing the the conversation.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

I realise this is a very well worn topic, but I don't completely understand how he was able to get his hands on an assault rifle in the first place. Can someone link me to an article that explains the current gun control situation in the US? Even a book?

 

[emag]

Since you keep declining to explain...

Restricting the sample size to 8 throws things off, for starters. Looking at all mass shootings in the US, Muslims are actually under-represented as perpetrators relative to population (as shown in the infographic a few pages back). It would be absurd to claim atheists are inherently evil because atheists were responsible for 2 (arguably 3) of the 3 worst mass murders of the last 100 years, right?

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

That's true. The thought did occur to me, that it would have been more likely he'd be caught beforehand. Yet still, we've seen numerous successful attacks in recent years, even in countries with much stricter gun controls than the U.S. So, if the motivation and organization exists, attacks will always occur. This isn't an argument for not instituting gun controls, I just think we're being overly optimistic, in assuming gun controls would completely solve or eliminate this problem. It won't.

That's true of life in general, nothing is 100% but surely there could have been things done to lessen the severity of the violence and lessen the frequency that it occurs. There a lot of sympathizers out there that can buy some seriously hardcore weapons and wreak havoc, that's scary.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

There would absolutely be violence if the government decided to suddenly throw out an amendment and a fundamental right.

If you're talking about doing it through the actual process, then sure, maybe not, but we're nowhere near having the popular support for that, so it's moot.

Edit--This is where the 2nd amendment is seemingly different. Numerous amendments have been eroded, etc. without absolute violence. Why is this one different?

This nuanced actual process sure is interesting, I'm assuming you are referring to an actual constitutional amendment? Why can't it be re-classified via the SCOTUS who has historically interpreted constitutionality?

 

[A Link to the Past]

Modern crossbows are pretty much copying elements from firearm design, though. Also, I am devastated to hear that nobody in that bathroom survived.

This thing is legal in most countries without a license, btw. I could buy this thing tomorrow on the internet and nobody would care. They're even less regulated in terms of power than airguns are.

Judging by that image, it still is a less dangerous weapons than some of the weapons one can legally obtain. A crossbow can kill easily (and requires less training than a bow), but anyone can use a gun. Guns are fast, efficient, deadly, and with the "right" gun, you can know shit all about firearms and kill enough people with it.

 

[SmokeMaxX]

Hint: heads are 50% of a coin's possible outcomes, not 1%.

Hint: a sample size of 8 is not statistically significant.

Eight kids are born and three have Down Syndrome. Is there definitely something wrong, or is this the variance in small sample sizes?

 

[BearPawB]

I realise this is a very well worn topic, but I don't completely understand how he was able to get his hands on an assault rifle in the first place. Can someone link me to an article that explains the current gun control situation in the US? Even a book?

Depends on the state.
In my state I just go to a gun store, get a quick background check done, fill out a few forms, and leave the store.

For a pistol i would have to get a purchase permit which takes a few weeks

 

[Alienfan]

You're wrong - you're trying to use this tragedy to push a gun control agenda. this was motivated by religion and terrorism and hatred by a hateful religious homophobe.

The FBI/CIA/US Gov't fucked up by not getting this asshole sooner.

"motivated by religion and terrorism and hatred by a hateful religious homophobe", you're not wrong there - but you also can't kill 50 people with spoons, gun control is a VERY relevant topic.

 

[timetokill]

I realise this is a very well worn topic, but I don't completely understand how he was able to get his hands on an assault rifle in the first place. Can someone link me to an article that explains the current gun control situation in the US? Even a book?

I think somebody explained it's not technically an assault rifle (AR in AR-15 doesn't stand for "assault rifle.") It's a sporting rifle. Media and politicians like to sensationalize these things and always talk about "assault rifles." Anyway if that's wrong I'm sure somebody will tell me.

The gun control situation in the US is ... incredibly lax. The vast majority of people are in favor of some level of reasonable gun control measures, both gun owners and non-owners alike. Unfortunately, like many industries in America there is an incredibly powerful lobby focused against any kind of regulation.

 

[Piggus]

There would obviously need to be a slow and methodical roll out. An outright ban wouldn't work right away; we would need a program designed to incentivize gun owners to bring in their guns and be compensated with new firearms (and perhaps a cash incentive) that are less dangerous and have more up-to-date technology.

I'm sorry, but you're simply never going to get gun owners to agree to that. You're focusing on a ban (which will never happen) when you should be focusing on preventing ease of access, which, as we have seen with the NFA act, is possible. It may take time, but we could reach a point where buying a gun requires a lot more work to weed out the bad guys.

 

[Ponn]

Hint: blaming and generalizing gun owners and advocating that their property be forcefully siezed isn't how you stop it.

Seems to be the right course of action at this point because the current state of things isn't fucking working. I honestly could give a shit less what gun owners think at this point.

 

[Bel Marduk]

Let's talk about how the Orlando shooting was a hoax using crisis actors staging the event by Hollywood and the g-men.

Lets not.

 

[devilhawk]

I don't think either of you are wrong here (though I'm not sure about the atheist part). He likely would have tried with other means. That being said, I don't think that is a viable excuse for making it easier for someone like him to commit a mass murder like this. Regardless of the reasons for why he did this, the lax American gun acquisition process actively made his end goal a lot easier to achieve and that should not be acceptable.

I agree with you. Make it sensibly harder. We just can't divorce ourselves from the real problem, the problem that is decidedly upstream of the gun in this incident - his radical islamic driven hate for gays.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Anyone who says "well people would use other weapons" is being disingenuous. That argument is worth as much as saying nothing, even less in fact.

 

[a Master Ninja]

Very sad Tony Awards opening.

 

[rob305]

I realise this is a very well worn topic, but I don't completely understand how he was able to get his hands on an assault rifle in the first place. Can someone link me to an article that explains the current gun control situation in the US? Even a book?

It varies from state to state. In FL, background checks are only required on new gun sales. You can buy an AR-15 on armslist or gun shows with no checks. You only need to be a FL permanent resident.

Also, you only need a license in FL to carry your gun in public (concealed). There is no such thing as a license to buy or own a gun.

Waiting period in FL depends on the county. Usually you only have a waiting period on handguns (3 days), not on rifles or shotguns. This is only for new guns though, not resale.

 

[LordRaptor]

It's really sad that many of both liberals and conservatives alike cling to an authoritarian type of government ideal when they feel threatened. And in this situation the word liberal loses all meaning.

It's also the greatest Victory you can give terrorists and people who want to take your rights away.

No, it is perfectly rational - in fact it is one of the underlying precepts of society - that an individuals freedoms can and should be curtailed at the point where they infringe on others essential freedoms.

It's why you have the right to free speech, but you cannot shout fire in a crowded room and cause injury or death to others as a result without consequence.

 

[SaviorX]

Truly shocking hate crime of unprecedented scale in our country.

It's just a shame that nothing will be done to combat these kind of events through the passage of new laws. If putting holes the size of golf balls through dozens of children wasn't enough to create a change, this definitely won't.

Throw in the religious implications of this event and we are stuck at square one. I would not want anyone to merely brush this off as a case of mental illness - the vast majority of the mentally disturbed are not capable of such methodical and irrational loss of life.

All I can say, is that the fact that 1 person could kill/injure 100 people alone, should be reason enough to crack down on these Assault Weapons. Pistols and handguns require more precision and have less rate of fire per clip.

 

[A Link to the Past]

I'm sorry, but you're simply never going to get gun owners to agree to that. You're focusing on a ban (which will never happen) when you should be focusing on preventing ease of access, which, as we have seen with the NFA act, is possible. It may take time, but we could reach a point where buying a gun requires a lot more work to weed out the bad guys.

But it has to happen. The firearms that we have are too dangerous in the hands of most people. I suppose you could make provisions that allow people to keep older firearms if they can demonstrate their ability to understand the responsibilities of gun ownership as well as show their proficiency with a firearm, but to an extent, we kind of need to give a bit of a push.