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[2MF]

Hint: a sample size of 8 is not statistically significant.

Eight kids are born and three have Down Syndrome. Is there definitely something wrong, or is this the variance in small sample sizes?

If the eight kids were drawn from a random sample, either it was a very unlucky sample or there's something very wrong (such as, the number of kids with down syndrome is increasing, perhaps some disease is increasing the chance of it happening). For example, if you sample 8 random kids in the US today and 3 of them have micro-cephaly, I would definitely suspect that the Zika virus is now very active in the US. Sure, there's a chance you sampled the 8 kids in a very unlucky way, but the probability of that is really small. It would be cause for panic.

There's much more to statistics than "just choose a big sample". These things are actually quantifiable, just read the explanations in the binomial calculator page I pasted earlier...

 

[reckless]

I think somebody explained it's not technically an assault rifle (AR in AR-15 doesn't stand for "assault rifle.") It's a sporting rifle. Media and politicians like to sensationalize these things and always talk about "assault rifles." Anyway if that's wrong I'm sure somebody will tell me.

The gun control situation in the US is ... incredibly lax. The vast majority of people are in favor of some level of reasonable gun control measures, both gun owners and non-owners alike. Unfortunately, like many industries in America there is an incredibly powerful lobby focused against any kind of regulation.

Yeah it's not an assault rifle but it is one of the most popular guns in the U.S probably because its similar to the guns the military uses.

From 2000-2010, 2 million AR-15s were made for domestic use in the U.S so there are a ton of them out there.

 

[Scrooged]

No, he's saying that being scared and emotional and immediately rushing to authoritarian means to "solve" the problem is anti-liberal. It's how you get things like the Patriot Act, the TSA security theatre, and other abhorrent things done in the name of "safety."

He's not saying anybody here is the cause of this awful event. Don't make it so personal.

The no-fly list as we know it today is a direct result of the Bush administration after 9/11. The ACLU has been against it from its inception, saying that it an overreach of the government. And yet people on the left in this very thread are not only defending it, but asking why it doesn't have even more power over the civil liberties of Americans. Quite amazing.

 

[mid83]

Posted?

One look at his Twitter page shows that he has pre planned scripture posted at 7 am every Sunday. His office claims the post was planned last week. As a Texan I don't care for Dan Patrick, but I think this was just a horrible coincidence.

Unfortunately the main issue is that people wouldn't have been surprised if he did post that intentionally. That's one of the many reasons I've really grown disgusted with the social conservative movement.

 

[cr0w]

Crossbows also can't be fired into a crowd with one press of a trigger and proceed to take out dozens of people in the blink of an eye.

Common sense regulation is what's needed, there's absolutely no fucking reason a regular citizen should have an assault rifle. There's also no reason, in my mind, that anyone should be allowed to carry a firearm, concealed or not, into a public place. An outright ban isn't feasible, but I believe regulation, strict regulation, is. But I guess being realistic about this means I'm fine with people being gunned down by psychopaths.

I'm also pro-choice, so I guess the blood of millions of unborn children is on my hands as well.

 

[timetokill]

but you cannot shout fire in a crowded room and cause injury or death to others as a result without consequence.

That quote really needs to stop being used. That decision was overturned and is legally irrelevant.

The no-fly list as we know it today is a direct result of the Bush administration after 9/11. The ACLU has been against it from its inception, saying that it an overreach of the government. And yet people on the left in this very thread are not only defending it, but asking why it doesn't have even more power over the civil liberties of Americans. Quite amazing.

Exactly. The fact that Obama keeps trotting out the No Fly List and the left (in this very thread, even!) are pointing to it and saying, "Yes, Obama! So Amazing! Perfect!" is utterly bizarre.

But emotion and fear cause people to cling to authoritarian measures. It's the scariest thing about all of this, to me.

 

[Piggus]

Seems to be the right course of action at this point because the current state of things isn't fucking working. I honestly could give a shit less what gun owners think at this point.

"I'm mad, and our conversations haven't been working. So let's stop conversing and blame people instead."

Great plan.

 

[everyday math]

This is how I always view people defending their guns. They always seem to care more about an object that kills more then about the living beings themselves.

 

[Pandy]

The 'right' to bear arms even in the US isn't a right given that felons are prohibited from owning firearms anyway (and even also prohibited from voting as well). Something being a right would imply all citizens should be entitled to them.

What about other weapons, like airguns, bows, crossbows, knives, swords, slingshots, etc. Should they be banned too because 'nobody really NEEDS a bow, right?' Here in the UK knife crime is a pressing issue. Many thousands die every year to them. Should we ban knives too just because someone might misuse them?

Is this poorly worded? I read it that you are saying there are thousands of knife murders in the UK every year.

There are many thousands of knife murders worldwide every year, but there were 'only' 182 knife murders in the most recent figures for England and Wales, and I doubt very much that Scotland and Northern Ireland make up the difference.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...fences-involving-knives-and-sharp-instruments

 

[MikeDown]

I use to lean against most types of gun control, it is unfortunate it took me this long for my eyes to be opened. It is scary to think about all the people out there who are still at where I was in their thought process. Americans really have no business owning assault rifles or guns really for that matter. RIP to all vicitms..

This is how I always view people defending their guns. They always seem to care more about an object that kills more then living beings.

And that's the thing, I totally get that in some cases guns have saved lives when used in self-defense etc, but is the alternative really worth it? People groups that do not value the lives of others & that spew hate really have no place in Western Society. I'm not saying we should do what are government did to the Japanese in WWII, but their influence in our culture is really not helping. This country needs unity, and we have so much division. There is no coming together or conformity, everybody holds grudges and sticks to their beliefs, no matter how irrational. Much more a salad bowl then a melting pot.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Depends on the state.
In my state I just go to a gun store, get a quick background check done, fill out a few forms, and leave the store.

For a pistol i would have to get a purchase permit which takes a few weeks

I think somebody explained it's not technically an assault rifle (AR in AR-15 doesn't stand for "assault rifle.") It's a sporting rifle. Media and politicians like to sensationalize these things and always talk about "assault rifles." Anyway if that's wrong I'm sure somebody will tell me.

The gun control situation in the US is ... incredibly lax. The vast majority of people are in favor of some level of reasonable gun control measures, both gun owners and non-owners alike. Unfortunately, like many industries in America there is an incredibly powerful lobby focused against any kind of regulation.

It varies from state to state. In FL, background checks are only required on new gun sales. You can buy an AR-15 on armslist or gun shows with no checks. You only need to be a FL permanent resident.

Also, you only need a license in FL to carry your gun in public (concealed). There is no such thing as a license to buy or own a gun.

Waiting period in FL depends on the county. Usually you only have a waiting period on handguns (3 days), not on rifles or shotguns. This is only for new guns though, not resale.

Thanks for the replies. I don't have anything of substance to add.

 

[Doomshine]

Don't blame the government when it is the people who are making easy for mentally unstable people like this guy to walk in a buy the guns with no issue days before committing this crime.

This is why I don't get the comparisons to France. One event involved careful planning and coordinated attacks performed by three teams during a refugee crisis. The other... well, see above.

 

[Hip Hop]

Seems to be the right course of action at this point because the current state of things isn't fucking working. I honestly could give a shit less what gun owners think at this point.

Cool I guess, but you aren't changing anything.

 

[ShironRedshift]

No, it is perfectly rational - in fact it is one of the underlying precepts of society - that an individuals freedoms can and should be curtailed at the point where they infringe on others essential freedoms.

It's why you have the right to free speech, but you cannot shout fire in a crowded room and cause injury or death to others as a result without consequence.

Indeed. It's right in the 2nd Amendment itself, being so important that it's the first part mentoined:
"A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security...."
"well-regulated"
"well-regulated"
"well-regulated"
"well-regulated"

Our current firearms situation in the United States is anything but "well regulated." No way is the current situation anywhere close to what the founders envisioned. No way. Few other amendments even spell it out that clearly, but the 2nd does.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

I think somebody explained it's not technically an assault rifle (AR in AR-15 doesn't stand for "assault rifle.") It's a sporting rifle. Media and politicians like to sensationalize these things and always talk about "assault rifles." Anyway if that's wrong I'm sure somebody will tell me.

Honestly, it is a semantic argument. While there is a functional difference between an AR-15 and say a M-16, that difference is rather moot in actual usage. Perhaps someone who has been in the military can correct me or link to some actual statistics; but, I find it highly difficult to imagine the majority of M-16 use is in an automatic setting. The basic difference is Auto v. Semi, both guns are going to be used in a semi auto mode. The biggest issue is high capacity magazines and the actual cartridge itself.

The no-fly list as we know it today is a direct result of the Bush administration after 9/11. The ACLU has been against it from its inception, saying that it an overreach of the government. And yet people on the left in this very thread are not only defending it, but asking why it doesn't have even more power over the civil liberties of Americans. Quite amazing.

Because, we are stuck in a situation where are inability to act is leaving us in a situation of victim hood. What are we to do to stop these types of situations? Radicalism isn't going away nor is the ease of access to weapons capable of mass destruction and carnage.

 

[Aurongel]

Any argument not in favor of an outright ban is a justification of murder.

This threads churning out some absolute gold. Take a nap, man.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

Is this poorly worded? I read it that you are saying there are thousands of knife murders in the UK every year.

There are many thousands of knife murders worldwide every year, but there were 'only' 182 knife murders in the most recent figures for England and Wales, and I doubt very much that Scotland and Northern Ireland make up the difference.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...fences-involving-knives-and-sharp-instruments

Ah fuck, should have said thousands of offences then. Firearms crimes are even higher than I thought they were, I thought firearms crime numbered in the hundreds at most.

 

[BearPawB]

"you can't change the constitution!"
Yell people who cling to an AMENDMENT

 

[SuperSah]

I just saw this and saw 50 people and thought it wasn't possible.

It was

This is extremely depressing and distressing for all. God bless those unfortunate casualties today, may they sleep tight and find peace.

 

[Piggus]

But it has to happen. The firearms that we have are too dangerous in the hands of most people. I suppose you could make provisions that allow people to keep older firearms if they can demonstrate their ability to understand the responsibilities of gun ownership as well as show their proficiency with a firearm, but to an extent, we kind of need to give a bit of a push.

I'll humor your and say that IF somehow a ban were to pass, every existing gun the country would need to be registered or surrendered, much like the NFA act of 1986. You'd still have 300 million guns floating around, though they'd have names attached to them at least. There is absolutely no scenario where the majority of Americans (and especially congress) agree to to a law that forcefully strips citizens of the property. As with any ban, only future sales would be truly banned.

 

[LordRaptor]

That quote really needs to stop being used. That decision was overturned and is legally irrelevant.

Okay; you can't as the owner of a newspaper print things that damage anothers reputation that you know to be untrue.
Likewise you cannot verbally damage someones reputation with falsehoods.
You can't incite violence. Or print child pornography. Or steal someone else copyrighted or trademarked work and pass it off as your own. Or any of the other numerous limits on what is not legally protected as 'free speech'

 

[Hip Hop]

This threads churning out some absolute gold. Take a nap, man.

churning out the crazies, that's for sure.

 

[DragonSworne]

I still haven't heard much of an argument why these guns should not be controlled other than "my hobby" or "my right".

What is the argument for having these guns made so easily available and obtainable?

 

[timetokill]

Our current firearms situation in the United States is anything but "well regulated." No way is the current situation anywhere close to what the founders envisioned. No way.

Sure, it sounds that way when you take it out of context. But actually our militias are very well regulated, and anyway all of that is part of the reasoning for the actual statement, which is that you can't infringe on people's right to own and bear arms.

 

[Nev]

I ask for people to look at the countries where Islam has what it wants: political control with no outside pressure from a pluralistic society? What are the rights of gays and women there? What is it like in Iran or Saudi Arabia? I really have to wonder what people are smoking when they try to handwave the influence of this religious ideology away.

Religion of Peace? Religion of being cut into pieces.

It's illegal in both places and often punished by death.

 

[rob305]

Any argument not in favor of an outright ban is a justification of murder.

The things you read here

 

[Staccat0]

Sorry, but when a hobby, any hobby, is a leading cause/factor in people killing each other, then I don't particularly give a fuck about it nor the people who enjoy it. Archery is still a hobby but people don't get outraged because people don't fucking kill each other with bow and arrows on a routine basis.

I feel your pain, but it's not really a hobby. As someone whose family litterally lived off of hunting when my parents were out of work I can see a middle ground worth preserving. Maybe if we fix the social safety net first, it'd feel less damning to poor midwesterners, but until then just maybe keep in mind this wasn't done with a hubting rifle.

My dad by the way, an avid hunter, is a staunch liberal who supports strict gun control.

 

[Ponn]

"I'm mad, and our conversations haven't been working. So let's stop conversing and blame people instead."

Great plan.

We've tried to have a conversation about gun control rights for years now. It's more than clear the NRA and its gun owner followers have no intention of pursuing any kind of smart and reasonable gun control laws. We have a President that is visibly disgusted and tired of the inability of a group not willing to discuss gun control laws. If you don't come to the table in good faith to have a conversation then don't be fucking surprised if others get tired of seeing the dead bodies of friends and loved ones pile up. People are sick and tired of the bullshit.

 

[Scrooged]

Indeed. It's right in the 2nd Amendment itself, being so important that it's the first part mentoined:
"A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security...."
"well-regulated"
"well-regulated"
"well-regulated"
"well-regulated"

Our current firearms situation in the United States is anything but "well regulated." No way is the current situation anywhere close to what the founders envisioned. No way.

Are you even aware of who makes up a militia? It's everyday people. Literally any man fit to fight. And they brought their own guns if they had them. The "well-regulated" part is talking about being organized when they are needed in a militia. Do you think that everyone went to an armory to get their guns back then?

 

[AnathemicOne]

It's really sad that many of both liberals and conservatives alike cling to an authoritarian type of government ideal when they feel threatened. And in this situation the word liberal loses all meaning.

It's also the greatest Victory you can give terrorists and people who want to take your rights away.

I'd argue it's the most rational and logical course of thought and action to look up to your respective government and demand a solution when death on a routine basis is caused by your fellow countrymen.

Government is created to ensure safeguard to the people who they govern, said power granted by the people. Put simply, "I don't fucking trust Joe over there to not kill me one day, please make sure he doesn't."

 

[Aurongel]

churning out the crazies, that's for sure.

It's sad too because I'm technically on Neko's side in the debate but speaking in moral absolutes like that doesn't further any meaningful discussion at all.

 

[A Link to the Past]

I'll humor your and say that IF somehow a ban were to pass, every existing gun the country would need to be registered or surrendered, much like the NFA act of 1986. You'd still have 300 million guns floating around, though they'd have names attached to them at least. There is absolutely no scenario where the majority of Americans (and especially congress) agree to to a law that forcefully strips citizens of the property. As with any ban, only future sales would be truly banned.

Would that be the worst thing in the world though? Sure, we won't get all of the guns, but over time the guns will start to get better, and many of the guns not legally allowed to be owned would turn up and be destroyed. It'd be nice if the end result was perfect, but I'll take "better" any day over things staying the same. Plus, attaching a financial incentive might do a world of good to accelerate people bringing in their firearms for replacements.

The biggest concern I have is that once it becomes illegal to purchase old-fashioned guns, we're going to have a really bad smuggling problem.

 

[silva1991]

Rip all the victims.

 

[TheOfficeMut]

We really should just label these mass shootings as acts of Americanism. We are a god damned embarrassment to allow such easy access to firearms.

 

[Piggus]

We've tried to have a conversation about gun control rights for years now. It's more than clear the NRA and its gun owner followers have no intention of pursuing any kind of smart and reasonable gun control laws. We have a President that is visibly disgusted and tired of the inability of a group not willing to discuss gun control laws. If you don't come to the table in good faith to have a conversation then don't be fucking surprised if others get tired of seeing the dead bodies of friends and loved ones pile up. People are sick and tired of the bullshit.

I do come to the table to have a conversation in good faith. And then I get insulted and berated anyway. Are you expecting change to happen by having conversations on the Internet? Change happens by voting for people who share your beliefs and actually getting out and advocating for what you believe in.

 

[Staccat0]

We've tried to have a conversation about gun control rights for years now. It's more than clear the NRA and its gun owner followers have no intention of pursuing any kind of smart and reasonable gun control laws. We have a President that is visibly disgusted and tired of the inability of a group not willing to discuss gun control laws. If you don't come to the table in good faith to have a conversation then don't be fucking surprised if others get tired of seeing the dead bodies of friends and loved ones pile up get sick and tired of the bullshit.

The majority of gun owners are fine with restrictions. Most NRA members are too. The NRA used to as well.

Now they have gone insane and back politicians who are shills. Obama isn't frustrated that people don't support him. He's frustrated by congress.

The problem isn't gun owners. It's congress and by extension voters. To a degree, every life lost to gun violence sits partially on the shoulders of every dumb lazy young person who doesn't vote in non-presidential elections. Our representatice government isn't representing the will of it's people becuase they don't vote.

If we're going by the numbers, the majority of people who say they want stricter gun control actively stopped us from having it 6 years ago.

 

[Kenshin001]

To add to that, Unity Mosque here in Toronto (among other LGBT-friendly outreach initiavites in Canada) is also dedicated to supporting LGBT Muslims and non-Muslims alike.

Most religious groups support same sex marriage in the US. The only exceptions are white evangelical Christians, black Protestants, Mormons and Muslims. The majority of Muslims do not support it and I would guess that extends to a general intolerance towards homosexuals.

The only countries with the death penalty for homosexuality are Muslim. What kind of message does that send? I'm curious what it says in the Quran about homosexuality as no doubt Islamist groups and Islamic countries use it to justify their persecution and bigotry.

 

[Hellwarden]

We've tried to have a conversation about gun control rights for years now. It's more than clear the NRA and its gun owner followers have no intention of pursuing any kind of smart and reasonable gun control laws. We have a President that is visibly disgusted and tired of the inability of a group not willing to discuss gun control laws. If you don't come to the table in good faith to have a conversation then don't be fucking surprised if others get tired of seeing the dead bodies of friends and loved ones pile up get sick and tired of the bullshit.

Careful with statements like this. I understand that emotions run high, but we shouldn't paint in too broad a stroke on issues like this.

What the NRA supports and what NRA members support can be very different.

 

[LizardKing]

No, he's saying that being scared and emotional and immediately rushing to authoritarian means to "solve" the problem is anti-liberal. It's how you get things like the Patriot Act, the TSA security theatre, and other abhorrent things done in the name of "safety."

He's not saying anybody here is the cause of this awful event. Don't make it so personal.

Thank you

 

[TheRed]

It might be insensitive but I was thinking that the only way I see gun control debates making any decent progress in this country is if one happened in an NFL game. Sad.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

Careful with statements like this. I understand that emotions run high, but we shouldn't paint in too broad a stroke on issues like this.

What the NRA supports and what NRA members support can be very different.

and yet these people still donate money to this organization so they are culpable too.

 

[Spinluck]

Were there armed cops at the club during the incident?

I'm already seeing people bring up the "if only those victims had a gun" bullshit. I cannot believe people are being this insensitive.

 

[Osukaa]

We really should just label these mass shootings as acts of Americanism. We are a god damned embarrassment to allow such easy access to firearms.

Truth.

 

[Kinsei]

It might be insensitive but I was thinking that the only way I see gun control debates making any decent progress in this country is if one happened in an NFL game. Sad.

I doubt it. If there's one thing America loves more than football stars it's children 10 and under and Sandy Hook didn't change anything.

 

[cr0w]

It might be insensitive but I was thinking that the only way I see gun control debates making any decent progress in this country is if one happened in an NFL game. Sad.

If no progress was made after rooms full of children were slaughtered, no progress will ever be made.

 

[Ahasverus]

It might be insensitive but I was thinking that the only way I see gun control debates making any decent progress in this country is if one happened in an NFL game. Sad.

No lies detected. Or in the capitol or something. Hope that never happens though.

 

[Future]

I still haven't heard much of an argument why these guns should not be controlled other than "my hobby" or "my right".

What is the argument for having these guns made so easily available and obtainable?

It's not an argument for. It's more of an argument why take them away when people don't believe them to be the core of the issues that cause mass violence. They cite mental Illness, terrorism, as the real problems to resolve

If one were to remove an auto rifle from circulation, it doesn't mean they can't get one if they put their mind to it, and it doesn't mean they won't use another tool to get the job done. Meanwhile, law abiding citizens get their hobbies, and national heritage taken away by doing something that really doesn't address the problem

Note I'm not in agreement with this thought, but it's hard to argue against some of that point of view

 

[harriet the spy]

This news filled me with a sadness I am having a hard time getting over.

As much as I think the gun situation in the US is completely insane and needs strong regulation (if you dig deep in my post history you will find me being yelled at by a large number of gun supporters on GAF on a heated gun thread), I am actually not sure that this is so relevant to this case (though I certainly don't know the specifics - and I think we should certainly always be talking about gun regulation so I guess this time is 'relevant' in that sense).

If (and this is a big) this slaughter was a planned act of terrorism, terrorists are exactly the kind of people who would go out of their way to locate weapons (and for someone who really wants to, you'll always be able to access them). Strict gun control in France didn't prevent terrorists from accessing weapons. It's much more likely to prevent sandy hooks or VTech murder than the attacks that happened in France or Belgium.

 

[reckless]

Were there armed cops at the club during the incident?

I'm already seeing people bring up the "if only those victims had a gun" bullshit. I cannot believe people are being this insensitive.

More than 1.

Sunday, 2:02 a.m. ET: Shooting erupts at Pulse, a gay nightclub in the heart of Orlando, as some 320 people enjoy the club's "Latin flavor" event.

An officer working extra duty in full uniform at the club responds.

He and two officers nearby open fire on the shooter, and a gun battle ensues.

The shooter goes inside the club, where a hostage situation develops.

Some 100 officers from the Orange County Sheriff's Office and the Orlando Police Department respond to the chaotic scene.

2:09 a.m. ET: Pulse posts an urgent message on Facebook: "Everyone get out of Pulse and keep running."

http://www.wyff4.com/national/timeline-of-orlando-shooting/40020896

 

[Wickerbasket]

and yet these people still donate money to this organization so they are culpable too.

I find it disgusting that donations to the NRA spike after mass shooting incidents.

It's like they care more about owning guns than saving lives. Blows my mind.

But really, after the inaction after Sandy Hook, nothing surprises me any more.

America has a problem, and nothing's being done about it.