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[gamechanger87]

Depends on the policies that Microsoft imposes on supporting the original Xbone. Assuming they have the same policies as Sony (i.e. an Xbone version is required), then it would be either target their game on the Xbone hardware, resulting in a disappointing Scorpio experience, or target Scorpio and risk not getting a playable Xbone version.

Come to think of it, requiring an Xbone version could neuter the Scorpio's power, since everyone would in theory would still be targeting the Xbone/PS4.

Couldn't they just make the games so they flex depending on the platform where the game is being used? Isn't this how the PC handles it? Aren't these consoles just PCs?

 

[Panajev2001a]

Hrm...couple of thoughts

1) 6 TFlops with the optimization that comes from console will be..ridiculous. Comparing PC specs to console specs 1:1 never quite works out because you can optimize so much more heavily for consoles (since you have a single unified spec) rather than PC.

Regarding point 1... Anniterative model were multiple console specs are essentially on the market at once and new hardware comes out rather frequently make old style console optimisation and lot less efficient.

One thing is learning the intricacies of HW which will remain stable for five years and being able to assume that all your customers have the same exact specs... another thing is coding for a rolling average target like on iOS or PC. I think that the people predicting a UWP box have hit the nail on the head.

 

[KinofChaos]

Is this your first generation?

Is it yours? How did xbox do against ps2? When has a more powerful, more expensive console come out after the market leader and sold more? Answer? NEVER.

 

[MrCarter]

It won't help them win this console generation but it's worth a try I guess. Buying a mobile phone is justifiable after 3/4 years but buying an expensive console when the previous model is more than capable of playing the EXACT same games won't be worth it to a LOT of gamers I'm afraid.

 

[Zombie James]

Has a console ever been revealed this far ahead of time?

The PS3 was announced at E3 2005 and it launched fall 2006.

 

[michaelius]

That's a lot more bandwidth than the RX 480, I assumed it would be based on that but maybe not. Vega then? But then the tflop number seems small for Vega, but just right for RX480 with an upclock. Unless they're including eSRAM again.

That bandwidth it exact number for 256 bit GDDR5X at 10GHz. Which Polaris supports.

 

[wapplew]

Has a console ever been revealed this far ahead of time?

NX?

 

[Josman]

Sounds very good, I'd think about getting one if it supports Vive. But why on earth would they announce it so early and sink the Xbone even more? seems desperate

 

[El_Chino]

The PS3 was announced at E3 2005 and it launched fall 2006.

.

 

[Undead]

Well, as someone who was on the fence about buying an Xbox One, I can 100% say that I am now off the fence and will wait for Scorpio instead, as I image others might.

 

[allan-bh]

House got Scorpio specs on his lap.

But they can sit back.

He already knew.

 

[SkylineRKR]

On the youtube stream, Geoff seems to think these iterations will eventually go yearly, the people with him say it'll go either way.

So no profits on hardware ever?

Mobile phones are being way overpriced and have bigger market penetration. In that space it works.

 

[Pocky4Th3Win]

Yeah but we know 7S is coming next year anyway.

Yeah but Apple isn't out there telling people how great it will be, they stick to pushing the current model.

 

[JayhawkerStL]

Nintendo announce console without showing specs. Microsoft announce specs without showing the console.

And Sony announced without showing either.

Weird transition to a new generation no one thought was coming so fast.

 

[Kacho]

The king has returned.

 

[madmackem]

Will Sony announce the spec of Neo today?

Considering they said it won't be at e3 I doubt it.

 

[BFIB]

I'm negative on the Scorpio, but I think its because I know my investment days are over as a multi-console owner if this is going to be the new course we wade into.

I'm going to have a make a decision on who I want to invest in, and I think its going to be Sony for MLB The Show.

Its a sad day.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

This would be like if Apple started talking iPhone 7S today even though the iPhone 7 is launching this year.

But the Xbox One S isn't akin to the iPhone 7.

If anything this is a 5C/6 scenario.

 

[gamechanger87]

Sounds very good, I'd think about getting one if it supports Vive. But why on earth would they announce it so early and sink the Xbone even more? seems desperate

Console is within the ecosystem. Some people will buy the full upgraded others will get the cheap ones. Games will work on either. Some will even only go PC. They care about SW not HW.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

So wait. Does Xbone play Scorpio games or is this a flat out new console?

 

[jmizzal]

whoa thats a beast

 

[AngelOFDeath]

I think MS should have announced this project, but say zero numbers. They set themselves up, even though nothing is concrete, it is kinda like here are my cards now lets bet.

 

[michaelius]

1) 6 TFlops with the optimization that comes from console will be..ridiculous. Comparing PC specs to console specs 1:1 never quite works out because you can optimize so much more heavily for consoles (since you have a single unified spec) rather than PC. That said, I'm curious as to whether Xbox Anywhere will reduce the optimization done for consoles (also; will the multiple models thing also change how optimization is done). Or is there something upcoming in DX / Win 10 that will aid them?

What console optimizations? This will be windows 10 box running DX12 UWP games.

 

[i3allistic]

Didn't Sony pull a switch-a-roo with the PS4 ram? Won't surprised me I'd the leak Neo spec is fake, Sony been good with keeping stuff hush hush last few years

 

[...Scatter...]

Is it yours? How did xbox do against ps2? When has a more powerful, more expensive console come out after the market leader and sold more? Answer? NEVER.

That was also a brand new brand entrant into console gaming with no backlog or history in console space. Let's not pretend the scenarios are similar.

 

[Giriath_89]

The king has returned.

 

[Killer Queen]

Is it yours? How did xbox do against ps2? When has a more powerful, more expensive console come out after the market leader and sold more? Answer? NEVER.

I don't think they'll launch the Scorpio with a large price tag

 

[Liamario]

As many others have said, its going to come down to the quality of the games. Sony seems to have a good balance of hardware/software right now, so I'd expect the Neo to stay the course in this method.

Of course. I'm working on the assumption that all things being equal. Specs alone aren't going to sway the average punter. As someone who can only afford one console ( PS4), there's no way I'd jump ship to MS based on specs alone. It's about the games, and it's about how much I've already invested into a platform. SCORPIO specs are great, they really are, but with Neo coming (though possibly less powerful), there's no incentive for me invest in a high end Xbox. Again, this is assuming things remain as they are in terms of software line-up.

 

[gamechanger87]

So no profits on hardware ever?

Mobile phones are being way overpriced and have bigger market penetration. In that space it works.

They may make money on the older versions. In either case, only Nintendo has ever made a ton of money from HW.

 

[Tinúviel]

Do we know anything about a deal between Sony and AMD about RX480 GPU's.

I don't believe Sony can change Neo's specs at this point.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Couldn't they just make the games so they flex depending on the platform where the game is being used? Isn't this how the PC handles it? Aren't these consoles just PCs?

Yes I've been repeating this, dunno what people are so confused about.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Is it yours? How did xbox do against ps2? When has a more powerful, more expensive console come out after the market leader and sold more? Answer? NEVER.

PS3? I think it did catch the Xbox 360 after all, but I get your point.

 

[SwolBro]

if it's truly a beast and i can actually see the difference without digital foundry telling me there's a difference i will grab it first thing next fall.

 

[DeepEnigma]

That's that optimistic view, yes, but it depends upon the length of that hardware sweet spot timeframe, and whether the new hardware is more about enhancements to a base game like you describe, or if the base game is a cut down port of a game positioned to push sales of the new hardware.

It is still going to be pushing the current (or newly base, last 'gen') box to it's max potential if sacrifices have to be made. Only difference now, is you have an option for more bells and whistles, or stick to the potential cap.

 

[FZW]

God damm.

Announcing it early is great as Sony has to react to it.

Thats what MS is hoping for

 

[jeffc919]

Depends on the policies that Microsoft imposes on supporting the original Xbone. Assuming they have the same policies as Sony (i.e. an Xbone version is required), then it would be either target their game on the Xbone hardware, resulting in a disappointing Scorpio experience, or target Scorpio and risk not getting a playable Xbone version.

Come to think of it, requiring an Xbone version could neuter the Scorpio's power, since everyone would in theory would still be targeting the Xbone/PS4.

I don't see how this has to be the case. X1 can be like PC low settings and Scorpio can be high/ultra settings. Or X1 can be 720p/900p/variable and Scorpio can be 1080p. Or X1 can be 30 FPS and Scorpio can be 60 FPS. Or some combination of the above depending on the game. I just don't see the older consoles holding back the newer ones in this iterative model any more than lower/mid level PCs hold back high end PCs. Also, cross gen games are already held back today by being forced to work on 10+ year old hardware for the first few years of a new gen. If the new iterative model typically maintains support for the 2 most recent hardware iterations, which happen every 3-4 years, then the new way of doing things is actually better as far as avoiding games being gimped by out of date hardware.

 

[gamechanger87]

Yes I've been repeating this, dunno what people are so confused about.

I'm just as confused. Not sure why this is a hard topic to understand.

 

[Papacheeks]

As it stands now, Sony should scrap the Neo, ride the PS4 train until 2018 then drop the PS5 to destroy the scorpio. Only sensible course of action I can see from here

I agree 100%. I mean it's not like Vega, Polaris wasn't going to happen regardless. Imagine PS5 HIGH end Zen cpu, HBM2, Vega gpu SSD HD.

 

[Caayn]

Is it yours? How did xbox do against ps2? When has a more powerful, more expensive console come out after the market leader and sold more? Answer? NEVER.

Jup, my first generation.

Just wondering. Seeing how you didn't answer my question I'm going to take that as a yes.

Besides, remember the PS3? Launched a year later, later even in Europe, was €100~€200 more expensive. Look how Sony managed to turn that ship around. My point is. You seem to take things really black and white in this thread. The real world isn't like that and neither is this industry. A lot can happen in a year, especially since we know so little about both devices.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

Well I'm in

 

[element]

huh? is it going to be that, same exact visuals but in 4k..?

zero interest if true. not interested in 4k media.

4k is a 300% increase in pixels being rendered. 2.1m to 8.3m. I wouldn't say exact, but at that resolution you shouldn't expect a HUGE upgrade to the visuals we have now.

It will be interesting to see how devs use the power given they have two hardware SKUs and PC.

MIPMAPS to the rescue!

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

It's cool for people who want a console with more power but Microsoft just announced pretty much every game for PC too and my PC will still be more powerful, so why would I buy Scorpio when my PC will play the game ?

With that in mind and the fact I've had PS4 since launch, the PS4k is still a more logical buy for me and it won't even matter if isn't quite as powerful, because the exclusives like Uncharted will be exclusive and thats the main reason I buy a console, everything else I can play on PC.

Can't knock MS for offering great value with their cross buy games though and it was a pretty solid E3 for them overall.

 

[Fishook]

Just building a new PC so has little interest to me. The problem Microsoft has is how much this is going to cost, and trying to encourage casuals and family to buy new machines, It may be the hardcore gamers wet dream. Since we are going digital will traditional games stores be still with us in acouple of years time, therefore lessen the part exchange options which a lot of people use.

With tablets and mobile games becoming popular, is the console market is danger of over pricing it's user base.

 

[Delusibeta]

Couldn't they just make the games so they flex depending on the platform where the game is being used? Isn't this how the PC handles it? Aren't these consoles just PCs?

The problem would be time optimizing. Indeed, I suspect the primary reason we're getting incremental consoles in the first place is that developers are already spending noticeably more time optimizing their games. The problem is that by mandating all games support the base PS4 (and presumably Microsoft will want all games to support the base Xbone) is that they making the problem worse, since developers will have to optimize for the base PS4/Xbone *and* the PS4k/Scorpio. I suspect the end result will be one of the two parings will be left as an afterthought for practically all developers. Precisely which pairing will vary. Will developers focus on PS4/Xbone to maximize user base, or PS4k/Scorpio for maximum graphics? Who knows.

 

[...Scatter...]

As it stands now, Sony should scrap the Neo, ride the PS4 train until 2018 then drop the PS5 to destroy the scorpio. Only sensible course of action I can see from here

Sure. That won't piss off their hardware vendors or cause them to piss away an APU tapeout choosing millions. One does not simply cancel these things without a careful plan in place and a solid budget.

 

[Negotiator]

Do we know anything about a deal between Sony and AMD about RX480 GPU's.

I don't believe Sony can change Neo's specs at this point.

It depends on if the PS4 Neo APU tape out has been completed or not (it's a quite costly process).

If the PS4 Neo is already being manufactured, then, yeah, it's almost impossible (except a slight upclock)...

 

[Hiro_Kunimi_80]

As it stands now, Sony should scrap the Neo, ride the PS4 train until 2018 then drop the PS5 to destroy the scorpio. Only sensible course of action I can see from here

then, with a major upgrade ( let's say 10+ ? TF processing power ) we will have no Multiplatform optimization on PS5 for a long amount of time ( as every title developed for ps4, scaled down for X1, scaled Up to Scorpio and pc , will provide more user base for any third party )

this would lead one year or so without a good software lineup , + pricecut on Scorpio...
on 2019 Microsoft could announce Scorpio2 released 2020 and the cycle restart ...


the best course of action for Sony is either

1) release Neo this fall (best solution) / early 2017 and push on price policy and software optimization from the start ( that would lead into a ps2 vs Xbox scenario )

2) release Neo next fall, alongside Scorpio, with a little specs bump and match/ getting extremely close to their specs, and then go head to head again from the day one


i hope solution 1 because i want 4K games and VR games as soon as possible

 

[xzeldax3]

That's really unexpected! I can't wait to see of Sony does something similar.

 

[| Praxis |]

All of these announcements, and all of these games coming to PC has made buying any model of Xbox pointless to me. I will just buy everything for the PC instead. Plus, I already have a Vive.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

The problem would be time optimizing. Indeed, I suspect the primary reason we're getting incremental consoles in the first place is that developers are already spending noticeably more time optimizing their games. The problem is that by mandating all games support the base PS4 (and presumably Microsoft will want all games to support the base Xbone) is that they making the problem worse, since developers will have to optimize for the base PS4/Xbone *and* the PS4k/Scorpio. I suspect the end result will be one of the two parings will be left as an afterthought for practically all developers. Precisely which pairing will vary, but considering that focusing on PS4k/Scorpio will result in better graphics, I suspect most AAA games will lean that way.

"optimisation" is a but overblown here, it's all the same amd architecture, you'd only need to optimise once really and then scale your content.