Xbox Project Scorpio Announced - 6TFlops, 320GB/s - Fall 2017

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I'm pretty stoked.. be about time to upgrade the One in Fall 2017. I'm down and the specs look great so far.
 
Maximilian E. said:
So specs wise, what are we seeing realisticly?

8 Core Zen Summit ridge + 6 TFLOP GPU semi custom SoC
16Gb RAM? (viable or even "must" for a 2017 release?)

What perhaps it the most important thing here is perhaps the statement that they are making. Yes, all signs points to Scorpio being the most powerful console made yet.. but the fact that MS is actually pushing towards this and wanting to have it means that they will strive for the power edge even with generations after Scorpio..

I would like to see MS make more custom designs though. They have such a huge talent pool with GFX development and often contribute to lots of technical documents to SIGGRAPH. It feels like MS could to do more "pushing the envelop" with silicon, at least in regards to GFX..

Anyways.. interesting times..
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Huh? Didn't they specify the system as 6tf?
 
Venuspower said:
We will see. I can not see this happen.



But why did they develop the slim version then? Who will buy that one if there is a more powerfull console right around the corner for (nearly) the same price.

If they want to make Scoprio that cheap they could stay with the big XBox One and drop the price for the old console to 200€. It's much easier and cheaper (for them) if you ask me.



As said above: Why developing a Slim then? Maybe I am just to stupid to get the point behind it. For me it looks like XBox One S for a low price and Scoprio for a much higher price.
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I mean who do you think will buy iPhone 7 this year knowing iPhone 7S coming out next year?

I think its fair to say, its not targeted towards enthusiast. This is going to be cheap model, which will sell modest to people who wants to play current Xbox library right now. Without spending lot of money building a PC. I mean even if you build a PC, you won't be able to play games that came out in last 3 years that were exclusive to Xbox One. $300 and when its on sale, probably $200 by blackfriday. Is very appealing
 
MilkyJoe said:
You honestly think it's just a concept? With a release date? Jinkies...
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don't get me wrong, I'm not actually trying to say I don't think scorpio is real, I'm not dense.

I'm just saying what they showed today, which was a very slick hype video, is hardly a reveal, it's a tease.

it's a pretty smart way to play it though I give them that
 
Shubit said:
I did a quick and dirty speculative comparison, filling in the blanks by using known specifics of GCN uarch in a way that best fits the already announced numbers.

Geometry rates are derived from typical GCN "raster engine" arrangement which ties a geometry processor to a certain number of CUs (up to 16 per). I left out texel fill rates since number of TMUs is unknown, but scaling to memory interface width, Scorpio could end up with 50% more TMUs than Neo.

PS Neo:
CPU: 8 cores @ 2.1 GHz (14nm Jaguar/Puma successor)
GPU: 36 CU @ 911 Mhz => ~4.2TF , ~2.7 billion vertices/s , ~29.1 GP/s (4th gen GCN, most likely arranged into 3 raster engines with 12CU each, memory setup suggests 32 rops)
Memory: 8GB GDDR5 @ 6800 mt/s, 256 bit interface => ~218 GB/s max bandwidth

XBOX Scorpio:
CPU: 8 cores @ ? GHz (insistence on backwards compatibility suggests the same uarch as Neo: 14nm Jaguar/Puma successor)
GPU: 48 CU @ (at least) 977 MHz => ~6TF , ~3.9 billion vertices/s, ~46.9 GP/s (4th gen GCN, most likely arranged into 4 raster engines with 12CU each, memory setup suggests 48 rops)
Memory: 12GB GDDR5 @ 6700 mt/s, 348 bit interface => ~320 GB/s max bandwidth (announcement trailer PCB render shows 12 memory ICs)
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Zen is probably more likely...

As for the memory, it's actually 16 memory ICs in one shot.

Which means GDDR5x on 256 bit. 8 or 16 GB.
 
Bits N Pieces said:
I'll eat that crow :) It goes against everything I know in marketing a product an it was the strangest, boldest move I've seen anyone make it at E3 in years. Only time will tell how this all pans out and how they dripfeed us information over the next 12/16 months.

Exciting times ahead for sure :p
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I said from day one. Announce it or they will lose VR market share to Sony. The goggles are too expensive to switch sides.
 
-ImaginaryInsider said:
Exactly, when has releasing the a more powerful console a year after the competition ever yielded the number one sales spot?
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Super Nintendo
Playstation 2

Now of course, it's a bit silly to attribute all of that to them just being more powerful (which is even kinda arguable in the SNES' case), but so would assuming an early release guarantees greater success be.
 
The Albatross said:
Even moreso, you're seeing software developers delivering features that were previously unheard of.

Rocket League is one of the first successful games to feature cross-console/PC support on both major consoles, and Bethesda has delivered full mod support to console games with Fallout 4 and the new Skyrim remaster.

We've had to rethink a lot of assumptions about console gaming this gen, and while the idea of Steam running on Xbox is out there, it's far fetched because of Valve and Microsoft's business relationship, not because of the technology.
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Sad thing is, on all levels except the GabeN level, their relationships are insanely good. There are so many folks that are friends on the programmer / business development / art / everywhere else team between MS and Valve (since they're only a few miles away from each other) that they could have a really good relationship outside the executive levels. :(

Kieli said:
I don't think the Xbox division has that kind of freedom. Supposedly the other divisions of Microsoft aren't very happy with the Xbox division.
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After their latest re-org (wait a year and there will be another one, lol) MS folks are happier with Xbox. More importantly, Satya is happy with Xbox. That's the one that matters. :D
 
So now we know why sony isnt talking about neo!
I think neo just got sent back for a spec bump question is if so will scorpio get one to and now come out earlier than neo now sony has to rethink?
 
J-Skee said:
I mostly agree, but Sony is going to feel pressure from people saying how their competitor has a more powerful console. They don't need to cave to that, but when you've been winning the spec war for the past 3 years, it's going to be hard to ignore.
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I have to disagree. The ones who truly care about power (such as most posters on NeoGAF), falls within the minority (which are hardcore gamers/enthusiasts). The majority of console buyers are casuals/Average consumers, which makes up the big majority of console sales. Always.

yyr said:
Let's not forget that Market-Leader Sony is less humble than Coming-From-Behind Sony. They will charge a higher price for their product if they believe folks will pay for it. Microsoft is discounting the X1 left and right...Sony is not matching their price, because they feel they don't have to. So don't be so sure!
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Are you high or something? You must be.
 
Maximilian E. said:
What perhaps it the most important thing here is perhaps the statement that they are making. Yes, all signs points to Scorpio being the most powerful console made yet.. but the fact that MS is actually pushing towards this and wanting to have it means that they will strive for the power edge even with generations after Scorpio..
Click to expand...

Microsoft has lacked a strong identity for their console ever since the multimedia/Kinect focus of the XB1crashed and burned. Halo isn't the hegemon it once was and they don't have a particularly large stable of first-party developers. Being the most powerful console and the reference console for multiplats ( a la the 360) gives them something to define their brand by.
 
Venuspower said:
We will see. I can not see this happen.



But why did they develop the slim version then? Who will buy that one if there is a more powerfull console right around the corner for (nearly) the same price.

If they want to make Scoprio that cheap they could stay with the big XBox One and drop the price for the old console to 200€. It's much easier and cheaper (for them) if you ask me.



As said above: Why developing a Slim then? Maybe I am just to stupid to get the point behind it. For me it looks like XBox One S for a low price and Scoprio for a much higher price.


e: And if we look at GTX 1070/1080: They are the first graphic cards that can handle 4K Gaming good enough. And I cannot see Microsoft and Sony putting that power into a small console for a low price.
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I don't understand all of Microsoft's motivations but a $400 6TF console in fall 2017 seems like a perfectly reasonable proposition to me. That's a long way away.
 
BeforeU said:
I mean who do you think will buy iPhone 7 this year knowing iPhone 7S coming out next year?

I think its fair to say, its not targeted towards enthusiast. This is going to be cheap model, which will sell modest to people who wants to play current Xbox library right now. Without spending lot of money building a PC. I mean even if you build a PC, you won't be able to play games that came out in last 3 years that were exclusive to Xbox One. $300 and when its on sale, probably $200 by blackfriday. Is very appealing
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The thing with the smartphones is that they are basicly the same. Every year. With small hardware upgrads.

I contrast to that the scoprio is a massive upgrade. Maybe even worth calling it "next gen".
 
mjp2417 said:
Microsoft has lacked a strong identity for their console ever since the multimedia/Kinect focus of the XB1crashed and burned. Halo isn't the hegemon it once was and they don't have a particularly large stable of first-party developers. Being the most powerful console and the reference console for multiplats ( a la the 360) gives them something to define their brand by.
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Your brand needs more then power, which could be short lived when sony announces another console in 2018 or 19. It needs IP people want and not Just a US/UK box. Power is not going to be enough for MS>
 
...Scatter... said:
Could be Vega downclocked for lower TDP or with a lower CU count. Not saying it is, but it could.
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Vega is Polaris, but with HBM memory controller. Both MS and Sony can ask from AMD to create APU with any number of CUs. Scorpio has GDDR5/X chips, so at least it won't be insanely expensive.

I still expect $500€.
 
CrispyBoar said:
I have to disagree. The ones who truly care about power (such as most posters on NeoGAF), falls within the minority (which are hardcore gamers/enthusiasts). The majority of console buyers are casuals/Average consumers, which makes up the big majority of console sales. Always.
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Agreed, I don't think has Sony worried at all. The main thing this does is hurt the sales of the xbox one even if the Scorpio is more powerful than the Neo. It doesn't actually assume that Microsoft is going to lead in sales again when the Scorpio is released.
 
DuckSlayer said:
Lol so neo is super low tier and useless next year .. Here let me google that for you ...

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-980-Ti-6GB-Review-Matching-TITAN-X-650 980ti is 5.8 tf

Scorpio is faster than everything but latest nvidia cards .. Mid tier lol. What u smokin bro?
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You know by 2017 new mid-range GPU's will be out that will way outperfom those right? There is also more to a system then a GPU. AMD and Nvidia flops are also not apples and oranges.
 
mjp2417 said:
Microsoft has lacked a strong identity for their console ever since the multimedia/Kinect focus of the XB1crashed and burned. Halo isn't the hegemon it once was and they don't have a particularly large stable of first-party developers. Being the most powerful console and the reference console for multiplats ( a la the 360) gives them something to define their brand by.
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Which was a statement made with the OG Xbox.. but somewhere along the way it a bit distorted. MS seems to have shifted back the focus towards how it was in the OG days and I think this is good..

If you cater the hardcore gamers and entice them with powerfull hardware, this trickles down to mainstream.. because casuals read the net, they check stuff up... and then the word to mouth starts to spread about most powerful console.. and the snowball starts to roll..

What MS also need is to work on their first party stuff. IN general, it is very action-oriented.. it feels like MS could do more, be a bit more diverse and not always put so much weight on shooters and such..
 
joecanada said:
not only that but this will basically happen every 2-3 years now. someone will come out and say "most powerful console ever!!" next year it could be neo, following year scorpio, then a couple years later ps5 and so on and so on. its not exactly groundbreaking or exciting news. what matters most is what comes out of it. games >>>> apps, media functions or other stuff.
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To me saying you get the best experience possible for multi platform games for 2-3 years is pretty exciting. Especially if it comes close to PC since most of my friends are on consoles and I only pick up PC when console tech gets old.
 
DuckSlayer said:
Lol so neo is super low tier and useless next year .. Here let me google that for you ...

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-980-Ti-6GB-Review-Matching-TITAN-X-650 980ti is 5.8 tf

Scorpio is faster than everything but latest nvidia cards .. Mid tier lol. What u smokin bro?
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Who said lower tier was "useless"

cyberheater said:
Lol. What rubbish.

More like high end now, mid tire when it comes out.
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Yeah. People get their nickers in a bunch when someone mentions mid-range, but there isn't anything wrong with that at all. The 970 and r480 will be decent for a long time
 
robertsan21 said:
wow sony dropped the ball here, it needs to be the most powerful. Hopefully they change it to that. Or I just wait for PS5
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PS4K is upgrade for PS4 [that targets not to be too expensive], so large upgrade is not as needed.

Scorpio looks to be brand new gen, and MS is willing to take risk on expensive console again.

Both approaches are viable for their repective goals, although high price can cause problems.
 
Venuspower said:
The thing with the smartphones is that they are basicly the same. Every year. With small hardware upgrads.

I contrast to that the scoprio is a massive upgrade. Maybe even worth calling it "next gen".
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or may be we should expect these massive update every 3-4 year? I mean component prices and size are going down. There is no reason not to refresh your hardware every 4 years.

There is no more "current or next gen". I think it will take us gamers some time, but after the first 2-3 years. We will adapt to this new model.

ethomaz said:
Actually that is correct.

Anything below GTX 1070 is mid-tier... that include GTX 980 and RX 480.
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lol come on

Coulomb_Barrier said:
Because consoles have exclusives. This won't.
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so suddenly everyone will be building PC? and put them in their living room?
I agree there is going to be some cannibalization, people who have powerful PC will have no reason to own Xbox One. But the question is, how many were there to begin with?

I would still want a console under my TV for all multimedia feature.
 
Gonna need a lot of gb's of ram for those 4K uncompressed textures. One thing is upresing a game such as uncharted 4 to 4K while keeping 1080p texture resolution, another is having native 4K textures.
 
I see kinofchaos is in here already. The console insecurity of this guy is amazing.

The Xbros finally have a console they are happy about and all you can do is shit on their thread. Amazing. Go enjoy the games for goodness sake.
 
KinofChaos said:
You know by 2017 new mid-range GPU's will be out that will way outperfom those right? There is also more to a system then a GPU. AMD and Nvidia flops are also not apples and oranges.
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To be fair the speed of all that seems to have slowed. I think it'd be mid-high even then. If Neo is this year it'd be mid-high for then.
 
KinofChaos said:
Your brand needs more then power, which could be short lived when sony announces another console in 2018 or 19. It needs IP people want and not Just a US/UK box. Power is not going to be enough for MS>
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Who said anything about it being enough to beat Sony? I said it gives them a stronger identity, not that it gives them a victory.
 
I prefer this over new console generations. Releasing an upgraded version of the hardware and making the games scale is the right thing for consumers.

Hoping the NEO is the same strategy. Not interested in buying a PS5.
 
Nzyme32 said:
When Scorpio actually comes out - we're talking mid-low tier again.
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if it has a zen cpu, its a way better deal, then xbox or even ps4.

robertsan21 said:
wow sony dropped the ball here, it needs to be the most powerful. Hopefully they change it to that. Or I just wait for PS5
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sony main problem is the cpu, if it stick with jaguar and scorpio goes with zen, they are not even close. if they upgrade the cpu, then were looking at it ps4 to xbone difference not, really that big especially with games targeting lower end ps4 and xbonx one.
 
ninjablade said:
there is a very small chance scorpio will use a jaguar with those specs. most likely will have a zen cpu.
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They have to conform to certain TDP limitations. Zen is a "fat" core with a far more robust cache subsystem and would output significantly more heat even clocked similarly to a proposed Jaguar successor. If they announced a 4 core CPU it would have undoubtedly been a Zen derivative but with 8 cores... it could go either way but it's more likely the leaner Jaguar/Puma successor that is also rumored for PS Neo.
 
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