MACROSS (pronounced Delta) ~~ ~~

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Shun

Member
Keith doesn't get a buff, he's just super-Windamere amongst the already superhuman Windamere species and that was just his natural heightened abilities as a Windamere. Messer had a fold-buff pseudo newtype thing going on where he finally gets onto Keith's level, but gets blindsided by not just the Lil Draken drone flying in to take the hit and limit Messer's vision, but the hidden laser inside his Draken's nose.

Usually Draken Valkyries are fitted with Lil Draken drones on the side of their wings that act as lasers and extra weapons, before deploying as drones.

The drones are kind of like Funnels or Dragoons or Bits in Gundam where they're work alongside the pilot. Considering the enhanced physical abilities of the Windamere, it's not unexpected for them to be able to control or influence how the Lil Draken maneuvers while flying.

It's not a rookie mistake, even seasoned fighters can get caught off guard by a tactic. It's called human error and Messer misread Keith's movements. Messer wasn't a jobber as you make him out to be, he just finally hit his human limits even after being enhanced by fold waves and bacteria.

How do you beat these super humanoid pilots? Well that's going to get touched on later on in the series. We see Hayate kill one earlier in the series, only because that one was locked on to Mirage and was caught and flanked. We'll no doubt see more coordinated movements and teamwork between Mirage and Hayate if the opening cinematic is to go by.

Hayate's ability to pilot on the level of a super humanoid by following the "wind", when he unconsciously resonates with external fold waves and emitting his own. An ability he will only further develop as he's what you would consider an "evolved" humanoid compared to the rest of the Delta Squad.

In this universe of Macross, fold technology is the equivalent of Minovsky particles in Gundam and we get to see these humanoid characters further progress and evolve into "Newtypes" through better awareness of their surroundings, environment, and relationships with people. It's not going to be done the same way as Gundam, but the way it's setup and the way Macross touches on human and extraterrestrial relationships, it's similar.

That's at least the speculation and discussion amongst MacLog.
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
I guess my bigger problem is that I don't know what they want me to think about the villains. They are racist, surreptitious, warmongers yet they also apparently have apple orchards and are presumably normal people as well.

My assumption is that end game is for everyone to get together and use the power of song to fix Windamere. It just seems like the obvious ending and that at some point they'll get over their dumb misunderstandings and figure out they should work with each other. So they try to have some sympathetic members of the Windamere force to make it look like they aren't just Space Nazis.

But how am I supposed to feel when Messer dies a chump's death? I certainly don't feel sorry for him, since his death felt like an inevitability - at least if it was Mirage or Hayate, I would have been surprised or shocked by the death. What am I supposed to feel about Keith? I'm not impressed with his skill as a pilot, nor am I impressed with him as an villain. It's the equivalent of watching a villain shoot someone in the back to make them seem villainous, and it just feels so manipulative that I find it more annoying than antagonizing.

And maybe using the drones is a measure of skill, but in that case, it just means Messer really is a shitty pilot who - for some dumbass reason - decided to stop shooting the moment he saw an explosion. In my eyes, that just compounds the problem. If you're going to use Messer as a plot device to actually give the show some stakes, why not let Keith get a clean kill to show he's the superior pilot without relying on gimmicks? At least for me, I could see him as some kind of honorable warrior.
 
Who exactly is calling Messer a jobber though and why? He was at this current point the most skilled pilot except for when Hayate resonates with Freyja and dances around, which even Keith took notice of. Hayate is just too green to be consistent. On the topic of resonance it seems like each member has a Walkure that they resonate with, which makes me wonder who Mirage is supposed to resonate with? I don't really see her have friendly conversations with any of them unless I really need to rewatch this from the beginning.
 
I don't know how anyone could watch this show and come to the conclusion that Messer is a jobber. The Windamere villains haven't been done that well, but the obsession with skill rankings or whatever comes off as weird nitpicking.

Messer's death was way better executed than Frontier's equivalent.
 
I don't know how anyone could watch this show and come to the conclusion that Messer is a jobber. The Windamere villains haven't been done that well, but the obsession with skill rankings or whatever comes off as weird nitpicking.

Messer's death was way better executed than Frontier's equivalent.
Messer wasn't a jobber like some fool from Diamond Force. I honestly think they killed Michael mostly for shock value and to fuck over Klan. His death wasn't really needed at all.
 

Mokoi

Banned
I don't know how anyone could watch this show and come to the conclusion that Messer is a jobber. The Windamere villains haven't been done that well, but the obsession with skill rankings or whatever comes off as weird nitpicking.

Messer's death was way better executed than Frontier's equivalent.
Idk because a drone fucked him over messer is a shit pilot i guess. I don't understand. Windermere can dodge bullets i mean come on they pretty op if you take that into context. Also in the words of messer "gallant 1v1 duels are a fallacy" it's war yo use whatever tools u got. Also the wind fuck messer over distracting him and shit
 

bfrye26

Neo Member
This will either be AMAZING or horrible. I will watch it, although my expectations are a bit low. Not sure it can recpature that magic of the older series, and nothing can compare to Macross Plus!
 
This will either be AMAZING or horrible. I will watch it, although my expectations are a bit low. Not sure it can recpature that magic of the older series, and nothing can compare to Macross Plus!
It's not Macross Frontier (at least to me), but it's enjoyable enough, not enough Battroid action though. Do not dare ask me why.
Though I do like Delta up until this point, it does feel like it's still a ways off from picking up in order to realize its potential, and I would agree in considering Frontier the better show so far.

Kind of feels like we've been going in circles in how Delta Squadron has been squaring off with the Aerial Knights so far, and the love triangle aspect seems fairly lukewarm compared to where Frontier was by now in spite of being nearly halfway through the series.
And thanks for saying this. Frontier gets the weirdest bad rap for some odd reason when that show really brought the fucking hype. Macross Quarter taking on that giant Vajra battalion as Sheryl sing Infinity 7 and they do that Macross Canon shit! Fucking fuck fucking yeah. Delta has nothing as large scale and awesome as that.
 
It's not Macross Frontier (at least to me), but it's enjoyable enough, not enough Battroid action though. Do not dare ask me why.

And thanks for saying this. Frontier gets the weirdest bad rap for some odd reason when that show really brought the fucking hype. Macross Quarter taking on that giant Vajra battalion as Sheryl sing Infinity 7 and they do that Macross Canon shit! Fucking fuck fucking yeah. Delta has nothing as large scale and awesome as that.

One of the best scenes in a mecha anime to me. I can only think of one better than it
Fafner Exodus, Kazuki and Soushi saving the day like the Big Damn Heroes they are, complete with an insert song by angela

I approve of your new avatar, btw.
 
One of the best scenes in a mecha anime to me. I can only think of one better than it
Fafner Exodus, Kazuki and Soushi saving the day like the Big Damn Heroes they are, complete with an insert song by angela

I approve of your new avatar, btw.
I just HAD to make a Sheryl avatar. Too good not to get one. I honestly feel that so far Delta is just nothing more than a small skirmish anime. I don't know if it's because the music is sucking up all the budget, but the stakes just don't feel large scale enough and it just comes off in the battles. Compare this to Macross 7. Every battle at least 15 nameless VF 11 Thunderbolt mooks died cause they couldn't dodge for shit. Delta just seems like a show based around said mooks, but at least this time they have more name based plot armor...unless you're Messer. Oddly I still feel like I don't know that much about even Delta Platoon. I feel like you got more out of Gamlin than you do with Hayate. It just doesn't seem like we spend that much time with these guys. It's like a cast full of verbal Veffidas.
 
How is Messer's death a chump's death? A fighter pilot died in a dogfight. He got beat by a better pilot. Also, Messer wasn't part of the no helmet club.
That's what I'm saying. If Messer didn't step in when he did, that would've been the series finale. Or we'd be getting a twin of a few of these guys like Gundam 00.
 

Principate

Saint Titanfall
How is Messer's death a chump's death? A fighter pilot died in a dogfight. He got beat by a better pilot. Also, Messer wasn't part of the no helmet club.

Messer served his purpose it's not like he litterally just died randomly in a fight, without his intervention Walkure would be dead, and he eventually got beaten in an unpredctable scenario by a more skilled pilot. His death has more in common with a heroic sacrifice than simply to hype up the villains.
 
I'm reading through the Macross World forum and clearly I'm not the only person that thinks Mikumo is the child of Basara and Sivil.
 
I honestly feel that so far Delta is just nothing more than a small skirmish anime. I don't know if it's because the music is sucking up all the budget, but the stakes just don't feel large scale enough and it just comes off in the battles. Compare this to Macross 7. Every battle at least 15 nameless VF 11 Thunderbolt mooks died cause they couldn't dodge for shit.

It's because the "large scale" comes mostly from all the singing and not the dog-fighting. It's pretty clear to me that the impact of the Windermere prince's song is very big. After all, complete planets get taken over if Walkure isn't there to stop him.

While all the attacks always end up in a small dogfight, the stakes are super high for both parties.

I like how it works in Delta, the battles are definitely a step up from Zentradi attack #347
 
It's because the "large scale" comes mostly from all the singing and not the dog-fighting. It's pretty clear to me that the impact of the Windermere prince's song is very big. After all, complete planets get taken over if Walkure isn't there to stop him.

While all the attacks always end up in a small dogfight, the stakes are super high for both parties.

I like how it works in Delta, the battles are definitely a step up from Zentradi attack #347
I get you on that front. I guess I just want more of a spectacle. What's Macross with out big ass wave motion gun going off? Though yeah this is kind of a flip of what usual Macross is like cause the bad guy has never really used music as a weapon before.
 
I get you on that front. I guess I just want more of a spectacle. What's Macross with out big ass wave motion gun going off? Though yeah this is kind of a flip of what usual Macross is like cause the bad guy has never really used music as a weapon before.

I feel the point of Mikumo's character is to up the ante later in the story. I think it'd be best to just wait and see what happens in future episodes. Right now I think we'll have to see Hayate stepping up first before anything explosive happens.
 
I feel the point of Mikumo's character is to up the ante later in the story. I think it'd be best to just wait and see what happens in future episodes. Right now I think we'll have to see Hayate stepping up first before anything explosive happens.
I honestly think the whole cast just needs to step up. At least from a fighting standpoint. I've mostly been perfectly fine with how the main Macross squad operates, but for some odd reason these guys just irk me.
 

ED Cantu

Member
Messer a jobber? oh come on, he carried the whole squadron on his own and we saw it, the very first battle without Meeser and 30 seconds later they were "Oh no, a pincer attack!" even Arad said "If this continues were done"

Messer saved Walkure and Hayate, and as I already said Windermereans are super-humans with natural fold receptors because of their runes, that is a huge advantage as they can sense danger and can get a song boost/ride the wind without effort.

I'm reading through the Macross World forum and clearly I'm not the only person that thinks Mikumo is the child of Basara and Sivil.
My personal theory is that Mikumo is the Jellyfish god that Chuck mentioned, the one their festival is made to honor, which in reality would be that maybe the protoculture created Mikumo/her race to watch over all the worlds of that star cluster, something like the Bird-Human on earth but with a humanoid.
 
Messer a jobber? oh come on, he carried the whole squadron on his own and we saw it, the very first battle without Meeser and 30 seconds later they were "Oh no, a pincer attack!" even Arad said "If this continues were done"

Messer saved Walkure and Hayate, and as I already said Windermereans are super-humans with natural fold receptors because of their runes, that is a huge advantage as they can sense danger and can get a song boost/ride the wind without effort.


My personal theory is that Mikumo is the Jellyfish god that Chuck mentioned, the one their festival is made to honor, which in reality would be that maybe the protoculture created Mikumo/her race to watch over all the worlds of that star cluster, something like the Bird-Human on earth but with a humanoid.
Would explain why she isn't shooting spiritia beams at people.
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
I mean, I don't deny that I'm biased. The fact that I hate the Windamere (not because they are the writers have successfully portrayed them as villains, but because I feel like I am watching a cartoon) can't help but colour how I read Messer's death. It's cheap manipulation and it annoys me because I would like the show otherwise.
 
I mean, I don't deny that I'm biased. The fact that I hate the Windamere (not because they are the writers have successfully portrayed them as villains, but because I feel like I am watching a cartoon) can't help but colour how I read Messer's death. It's cheap manipulation and it annoys me because I would like the show otherwise.
Would you prefer Gepilnitch over them?
 
I'm still holding on that Messer is alive. There's no way he can die so quick. I feel he's drifting like Isamu and will wake up.

Why do i think this? Because the girl restaurant hasn't had time to ask him out on a date. That story needs more character development.
 

tuffy

Member
When Macross wants somebody gone this instant, it blows them up - like DYRL Fokker or Kakizaki. When it wants to pass a Valkyrie on to someone else or just fake out the audience, it shoots the pilot - like TV Fokker or Ozma.

Messer's death flags are too strong for him to get past episode 11, but it's suspicious that they didn't blow him up outright at the end of the episode.
 
When Macross wants somebody gone this instant, it blows them up - like DYRL Fokker or Kakizaki. When it wants to pass a Valkyrie on to someone else or just fake out the audience, it shoots the pilot - like TV Fokker or Ozma.

Messer's death flags are too strong for him to get past episode 11, but it's suspicious that they didn't blow him up outright at the end of the episode.
Is it bad that I only remember Kakizaki as "Ben Dixon?" I honestly don't think there's anybody in the cast currently worthy of Messer's Valk but that's just me. Besides if Hayate or Mirage got it they'd have to change their color schemes and I like them with the Max and Miria color combo.
 

Reknoc

Member
Who would even want Messers valk now. Keith made quite the mess...er of the cockpit. Someone gonna be cleaning blood up for days.
 

Shun

Member
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shintoki

sparkle this bitch
When Macross wants somebody gone this instant, it blows them up - like DYRL Fokker or Kakizaki. When it wants to pass a Valkyrie on to someone else or just fake out the audience, it shoots the pilot - like TV Fokker or Ozma.

Messer's death flags are too strong for him to get past episode 11, but it's suspicious that they didn't blow him up outright at the end of the episode.

He's still alive. It was just strawberry jam! I swear!
 
I really wonder if we're going to get any information on just what NUNs is doing about the Windermere threat. They seem so passive. You've a population of xenophobic people with the means and intention to use biological weapons and mind control against populations and so far it's just a few civilian operations being on the defensive.

Also, they keep mentioning Lady M. I think we're supposed to think it's Mikumo, but what if it's actually old ass Minmei. Is this a thing?
 
I really wonder if we're going to get any information on just what NUNs is doing about the Windermere threat. They seem so passive. You've a population of xenophobic people with the means and intention to use biological weapons and mind control against populations and so far it's just a few civilian operations being on the defensive.

Also, they keep mentioning Lady M. I think we're supposed to think it's Mikumo, but what if it's actually old ass Minmei. Is this a thing?
I thought Minmei was on the Megaroad that they lost contact with many many many many fucking years ago? What do the NUNS even ever do? I can't remember them being too useful in any show. Where's SMS? Those guys know how to get shit done.
 

Mokoi

Banned
Im pretty sure in one of the episodes Arad says nuns don't give a shit about this small time war. They got more important things to do
 

Shun

Member
With all the bloodsplatter and vaporization, I am surprised they were still able to find a body to put him into a casket during the funeral scene.

Everyone holding strong and Kaname the one openly crying.

At least they weren't heartless enough to remove Messer from the opening.

Oh shit Arad you heartless motherfucking going in for the swoop now that Messer is dead and gone. Kaname knows what you doing you thirsty shit, packing up and leaving with the awkward situation.

It's so chilling to see how skilled and heartless Keith is.

RIP Lagunyan girlfriend, you never got a chance to ask him on a date (´;д;`)

Wow Kaname is pissed and in military drill sergeant mode.


that was a good unwinding episode. Messer still a true mentor and bro after death.

We space battles now, shit is going to go down.
 
I just liked it and dropped some comments. Why am I not surprised that you know the guy?

i'm just friends with a only few guys on Macross World. i stopped posting on Macross World forums and closed my account there recently.

Outside of the forums, Alex one of the few that i keep in touch with. His facebook page is independently run by him. he's pretty good at keep that facebook page updated.
 
i'm just friends with a only few guys on Macross World. i stopped posting on Macross World forums and closed my account there recently.

Outside of the forums, Alex one of the few that i keep in touch with. His facebook page is independently run by him. he's pretty good at keep that facebook page updated.
So what was wrong with Macross World? Too many Ranka vs Sheryl battles?
 
So what was wrong with Macross World? Too many Ranka vs Sheryl battles?

the toy section is good for pre-order announcements. especially pre-order night. i can just use it as a lurker. other than that, too much petty drama. Like the macross podcast team hating on the mods and fight over credit for who breaks the news etc.
i just decided to stop posting bc it's the same nonsense. but the news and info is really good.
 
the toy section is good for pre-order announcements. especially pre-order night. i can just use it as a lurker. other than that, too much petty drama. Like the macross podcast team hating on the mods and fight over credit for who breaks the news etc.
i just decided to stop posting bc it's the same nonsense. but the news and info is really good.
That feud sounds rather petty to be honest. I actually just assumed that the podcast was staff based and not fan based.
 

Mokoi

Banned
Watching this on a weekly basis sucks. I'm hooked. Time to freeze myself till this done airing.

Also don't forget to get yo copy of walkure attacks. It coming out soon.
 
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