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[Tak3n]

You'll get no argument from me there! Living out the rest of my days without ever having to see his smarmy face grinning over a pint again (cos he's one of us, innit) is a tantalising prospect indeed.

Until UKIP can find a face to represent them he won't be going anywhere

 

[Jasup]

/sigh

I am wasting my breath here, but it is not my BS...fine you don't want it posted, but stop trying to say it is mine, when clearly it is not...and it is ironic you are calling his post facts, when clearly they are not, they are opinions. Unless of course you have a psychic link to the judge.. Then by all means produce your facts


So mine is BS and the other is facts, just about right....enough said really

Maybe it's a call for you, and any of us, to check our sources and engage in a little bit of source criticism. You know, basic information evaluation skills.

 

[Tak3n]

You'll get no argument from me there! Living out the rest of my days without ever having to see his smarmy face grinning over a pint again (cos he's one of us, innit) is a tantalising prospect indeed.



Maybe, maybe not. They've always seemed to me to represent the disenchanted. The protest vote for those dissatisfied with the status quo of UK politics. A milder version of the BNP in policy/approach, but a more potent force in mainstream acceptance/appeal.

Given Farage's performance in the last GE (when he resigned, lest we forget) and the recent shit show of his 'Breaking Point' poster, I wonder just how many of his 9 lives he has left and how much more of him the masses will tolerate/stomach.

Ask yourself this, if remain win we are about to have roughly 40 percent of people disadvected....those voters will need to go somewhere

 

[Exterminieren]

/sigh

I am wasting my breath here, but it is not my BS...fine you don't want it posted, but stop trying to say it is mine, when clearly it is not...and it is ironic you are calling his post facts, when clearly they are not, they are opinions. Unless of course you have a psychic link to the judge.. Then by all means produce your facts


So mine is BS and the other is facts, just about right....enough said really

If you choose to post this stuff under your username in the way that you do, you're taking ownership of it. You don't get to post nonsense and then claim it's got nothing to do with you.

 

[DrFurbs]

But if it wasn't for Farage, I really don't think we'd have had this referendum. The Tories would always be in a mess over it, but it took the external factor of UKIP in the European elections, and Farage as the face and voice of leave that's done it.

That said yes he is quite toxic to it. As someone for remain I sort of feel there's benefit of him doing shit, however the greater picture I think the effect he's had on public discourse by stroking fears is incalculable.

I've watched Farage for months now on YouTube. Honestly, he's the most forward thinking politician of them all. What is strange (unless I have over looked it) many say he's racist. I have yet to see a single YouTube video to convince me of this. His opinions on leaving the EU are sensible compared to Cameron's proposalls.

It can't always be about GDP.

 

[Tak3n]

Maybe it's a call for you, and any of us, to check our sources and engage in a little bit of source criticism. You know, basic information evaluation skills.

Agreed will double check from now on

 

[OverBlood 3]

I've watched Farage for months now on YouTube. Honestly, he's the most forward thinking politician of them all. What is strange (unless I have over looked it) many say he's racist. I have yet to see a single YouTube video to convince me of this. His opinions on leaving the EU are sensible compared to Cameron's proposalls.

It can't always be about GDP.

He wants to bring back the death penalty. Regarding him being forward thinking.

 

[Tak3n]

If you choose to post this stuff under your username in the way that you do, you're taking ownership of it. You don't get to post nonsense and then claim it's got nothing to do with you.

I think what we learned here is what they said was not that far from the money....now it being written with a right wing agenda makes you call it nonsense....I get that...

 

[Tak3n]

He wants to bring back the death penalty. Regarding him being forward thinking.

I would vote for the death penalty. As long as dna proved guilt.... Something tells me that won't surprise you

 

[OverBlood 3]

I would vote for the death penalty. As long as dna proved guilt.... Something tells me that won't surprise you

You're right about that, I'm more surprised by your repeatedly double posting.

 

[Jezbollah]

So it looks like Warsi has "defected" from Leave to Remain.

Not too sure what this means on the grand scheme of it all - probably very little normally, but it may fill a few newspaper columns...

 

[Hazzuh]

Here's a genuine question - if Remain does win by a convincing margin, what does that mean for the political future of Farage and UKIP in general?

British independence is their entire raison d'etre. If they fail in their once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to achieve it (gifted via a referendum that many feel should never even have been on the table in the first place), where do they go from here? Aside from peddling the same rhetoric indefinitely and crying out for another vote, would they not almost be, by definition, obsolete?

IMO they would only really be obsolete if we do vote to leave. If we remain nothing really changes for them, they can continue to use their framework in which the EU is broadly responsible for most of the major issues facing the country. If we leave either A) various issues with the country are solved and they are hailed as visionaries, or B) Things stay the same or get worse in which case UKIP as a party seems unsustainable to me and probably some new populist party will need to replace them.

 

[Tak3n]

What job does Boris get in the cabinet if we vote to remain....if I recall Cameron said he would being him onboard

I would spit my coffee if he got chancellor. He won't of course....

 

[phisheep]

I think what we learned here is what they said was not that far from the money....now it being written with a right wing agenda makes you call it nonsense....I get that...

Look Tak3n, I'm kind of running out of patience here and I am a pretty patient guy.
Everything I've looked at was not "not that far from the money" - yes, something was happening, but no it wasn't secret, no it wasn't being deliberately delayed until after the referendum, nearly all of it was misleading headlined, linked to the UK when in reality it wasn't or linked to the EU in a way that it wasn't or liked to immigration in a way that it wasn't.

And, to say it again - It is not about it being posted with a right-wing agenda, it is about it being misleading at best and wrong at worst. That's not right-wing, that is conspiracy-nutter territory.

 

[PJV3]

What job does Boris get in the cabinet if we vote to remain....if I recall Cameron said he would being him onboard

I would spit my coffee if he got chancellor. He won't of course....

Something with little paperwork, and lots of opportunities for publicity stunts.

 

[phisheep]

What job does Boris get in the cabinet if we vote to remain....if I recall Cameron said he would being him onboard

I would spit my coffee if he got chancellor. He won't of course....

That's a tough one!

Trouble is that Boris isn't tremendously good at detail. Couldn't give him Home Office, definitely not the FO! Probably something safe and incomprehensible like Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster would be my bet. He would need to earn credibility in the Cabinet before being offered anything bigger.

I suspect Gove has kept his credentials though and will either remain in Justice or move somewhere bigger. Word in the criminal courts suggests they'd prefer him to stay where he is.

 

[Tak3n]

Look Tak3n, I'm kind of running out of patience here and I am a pretty patient guy.
Everything I've looked at was not "not that far from the money" - yes, something was happening, but no it wasn't secret, no it wasn't being deliberately delayed until after the referendum, nearly all of it was misleading headlined, linked to the UK when in reality it wasn't or linked to the EU in a way that it wasn't or liked to immigration in a way that it wasn't.

And, to say it again - It is not about it being posted with a right-wing agenda, it is about it being misleading at best and wrong at worst. That's not right-wing, that is conspiracy-nutter territory.

Ok, let's leave it there, don't want anyone getting hot under the collar....last thing I want....I apologise if I have exasperated you....

 

[OverBlood 3]

So it looks like Warsi has "defected" from Leave to Remain.

Not too sure what this means on the grand scheme of it all - probably very little normally, but it may fill a few newspaper columns...

It's a shame the media focus is on the Conservatives for the ref, it's hard to care about anything they do or say.

 

[Jasup]

Agreed will double check from now on

Wery well. I'm open to debate and will happily aknowledge differing opinions as long as we have the basics of the current situation correct. Ideally that's politics in a nutshell, you have the basic facts of the current situation in place and only then you form opinions of where we should go from there.

Sadly, this isn't true in too many cases.

 

[PJV3]

It's a shame the media focus is on the Conservatives for the ref, it's hard to care about anything they do or say.

Poor libdems, this is their bread and butter and they go extinct when it matters.

 

[Pandy]

I would vote for the death penalty. As long as dna proved guilt.... Something tells me that won't surprise you

Given your earlier comment about the 'forward thinking' Texan justice system, no, this is not a big surprise.

 

[Tak3n]

Johnson calling for amnesty. I can see that being unpopular. Possible even amongst remain voters


Boris Johnson has sought to change the rhetoric about immigration in the campaign for Britain to leave the EU, calling for an amnesty for migrants who entered the UK illegally more than 12 years ago.

The former London mayor made the call at a rally in London on Sunday, as campaigners for Brexit face accusations that the debate about immigration had become too toxic in the heat of the referendum campaign.

Johnson’s words on immigration prompted a handful of boos and shouts of “No” from people in the crowd, but he said the amnesty would help those trapped and “unable to contribute to this economy, unable to pay taxes, unable to take proper part in society”.


http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ndemn-nigel-farage-anti-immigration-poster-eu

 

[Pandy]

Something with little paperwork, and lots of opportunities for publicity stunts.

Court jester?

 

[painey]

I messed up and didn't register in time to vote from overseas. I'm honestly very worried we could leave.. it's bad for the UK and is gunna kill the pound sterling.

 

[Tak3n]

Given your earlier comment about the 'forward thinking' Texan justice system, no, this is not a big surprise.

I have a simple mans theory. If someone killed a member of my family, would I want them to serve 20 years for murder, or would I want them to die...

 

[PJV3]

Court jester?

Perfect, lock him in the Tower and everyone is happy.

 

[OverBlood 3]

I have a simple mans theory. If someone killed a member of my family, would I want them to serve 20 years for murder, or would I want them to die...

If only the world was black and white. I don't trust any legal system with a person's life.

 

[phisheep]

Johnson calling for amnesty. I can see that being unpopular. Possible even amongst remain voters


Boris Johnson has sought to change the rhetoric about immigration in the campaign for Britain to leave the EU, calling for an amnesty for migrants who entered the UK illegally more than 12 years ago.

The former London mayor made the call at a rally in London on Sunday, as campaigners for Brexit face accusations that the debate about immigration had become too toxic in the heat of the referendum campaign.

Johnson’s words on immigration prompted a handful of boos and shouts of “No” from people in the crowd, but he said the amnesty would help those trapped and “unable to contribute to this economy, unable to pay taxes, unable to take proper part in society”.


http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ndemn-nigel-farage-anti-immigration-poster-eu

I think that's a good call, though it's made at a very strange time given the referendum.

And the numbers involved are pretty small IIRC. I guess there's a subtext there: where "amnesty for those here more than 12 years" equates to "no mercy shown to those in the last 11 years", but even so it is rather hard to see what he is getting at. Probably the long-standing immigrants who don't want even more immigrants?

I would vote for the death penalty. As long as dna proved guilt.... Something tells me that won't surprise you

That's for another time and another thread perhaps. Let's not make this one more heated than it need be, eh?

 

[Tak3n]

If anyone has 10 minutes spare, a really funny article about Gove, from the writer of a pig and a poke who worked with Gove... I will only quote a bit as it needs reading as a whole

Later that day, Gove suddenly appeared beside me on the fire escape, high above the Notting Hill street. He had a habit of sneaking up on you. “Ah, Lee,” he said, “contemplating the incalculable, I see?” “Mr Gove?” I asked, as I felt his hand upon the small of my back, applying gentle pressure.

“The leap, Lee. If you were to leap now, Leapy Lee, from this fire escape, what would happen?” “I’d die I think, Mr Gove,” I answered, unsure where this line of questioning was going. “Perhaps,” Gove countered, “and experts would agree with you, I am sure. But would it not be thrilling to find out if one could profit from such a bold leap?” “There’s nothing to find out, Mr Gove,” I replied, “no one could survive that leap. This is the seventh floor.” “Was it not our lord Christ,” Gove hissed, returning inside, “who urged us to consider the lemming.” I don’t think Christ did say that, did he? Wasn’t it “consider the lily”? What did Gove mean?

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/19/michael-gove-bit-of-an-animal

 

[OverBlood 3]

If anyone has 10 minutes spare, a really funny article about Gove, from the writer of a pig and a poke who worked with Gove... I will only quote a bit as it needs reading as a whole




http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/19/michael-gove-bit-of-an-animal

A really funny article about gove you say...well the cat litter tray isn't going to clean itself...

Goodnight chaps!

 

[Jackpot]

Look Tak3n, I'm kind of running out of patience here and I am a pretty patient guy.
Everything I've looked at was not "not that far from the money" - yes, something was happening, but no it wasn't secret, no it wasn't being deliberately delayed until after the referendum, nearly all of it was misleading headlined, linked to the UK when in reality it wasn't or linked to the EU in a way that it wasn't or liked to immigration in a way that it wasn't.

And, to say it again - It is not about it being posted with a right-wing agenda, it is about it being misleading at best and wrong at worst. That's not right-wing, that is conspiracy-nutter territory.

You know that in his head he still thinks all his claims are true. Secret EU army, a scheme to transplant 1 million Turkish immigrants, the ECJ emasculating UK anti-terror efforts...

Speaking of which, of the last 181 posts 40 of them are from Tak3n. You're not promoting debate, you're smothering it. And despite what you pretend, you are not the only pro-Brexit poster. Let them have a chance.

 

[phisheep]

If anyone has 10 minutes spare, a really funny article about Gove, from the writer of a pig and a poke who worked with Gove... I will only quote a bit as it needs reading as a whole

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/19/michael-gove-bit-of-an-animal

That is a very strange article - though I don't actually mind politicians being a bit, er, odd. Yes, odd is perhaps the politest word I could use there.

Liked this paragraph at the top too about the referendum:

Leave had no arguments or facts, just pornographically arousing soundbites and lies they knew were lies, but which they calculated might stick to a wall in a depressed town somewhere, if flung with enough force

Only teasing you Tak3n, it amuses me that all of a sudden you post a source with a quote like that in it!

 

[Tak3n]

You know that in his head he still thinks all his claims are true. Secret EU army, a scheme to transplant 1 million Turkish immigrants, the ECJ emasculating UK anti-terror efforts...

Speaking of which, of the last 181 posts 40 of them are from Tak3n. You're not promoting debate, you're smothering it. And despite what you pretend, you are not the only pro-Brexit poster. Let them have a chance.

Holy fuck, you are right....that is far to many posts by me

 

[PJV3]

A really funny article about gove you say...well the cat litter tray isn't going to clean itself...

Goodnight chaps!

It's Stewart Lee, usually very entertaining
But an acquired taste these days.

 

[Fernando Fernandez]

So it looks like Warsi has "defected" from Leave to Remain.

Not too sure what this means on the grand scheme of it all - probably very little normally, but it may fill a few newspaper columns...

Vote Leave tweeted the following

".@SamCoatesTimes @elliotttimes Puzzled by 'defection'. We didn't even know she was part of the campaign..."

 

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

If anyone has 10 minutes spare, a really funny article about Gove, from the writer of a pig and a poke who worked with Gove... I will only quote a bit as it needs reading as a whole




http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/19/michael-gove-bit-of-an-animal

It's actually hard to tell where the reality turns over into fiction: that classic Stewart Lee trademark.

 

[Tak3n]

Vote Leave tweeted the following

".@SamCoatesTimes @elliotttimes Puzzled by 'defection'. We didn't even know she was part of the campaign..."

Headline changed for clarity

https://mobile.twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/744660866285592576/photo/2

 

[JonathanEx]

Vote Leave tweeted the following

".@SamCoatesTimes @elliotttimes Puzzled by 'defection'. We didn't even know she was part of the campaign..."

They've updated the front page to imply it's more about her changing opinion. They can correctly point out she was never part of the official Vote Leave campaign, but they don't hold exclusivity over that opinion so they can't play it down as nothing...

 

[Par Score]

Here's a genuine question - if Remain does win by a convincing margin, what does that mean for the political future of Farage and UKIP in general?

British independence is their entire raison d'etre. If they fail in their once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to achieve it (gifted via a referendum that many feel should never even have been on the table in the first place), where do they go from here? Aside from peddling the same rhetoric indefinitely and crying out for another vote, would they not almost be, by definition, obsolete?

It's possible they fade away, but on the other hand we have a recent example of a party that's raison d'être was defeated in a referendum and then surged to unprecedented electoral success: The SNP

I really, really hope the Tory right and UKIP collapse into squabbles and infighting until they destroy themselves, but I'm not betting on it.

 

[King_Moc]

I have a simple mans theory. If someone killed a member of my family, would I want them to serve 20 years for murder, or would I want them to die...

You would have literally no objectivity whatsoever, so your opinion should be discounted as irrelevant in this situation.

Obligatory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98CWbGG2DJ0

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ng-economists-warn-of-long-term-brexit-damage

Many economists say that Brexit would severely hurt the economy for the long term. It's even more clear that vote leave has lost the economic argument.

 

[Dambrosi]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...-brexit-damage

Many economists say that Brexit would severely hurt the economy for the long term. It's even more clear that vote leave has lost the economic argument.

No shit. Won't change any Brexiter minds, though. We all know what their main issue is.

 

[Arksy]

No shit. Won't change any Brexiter minds, though. We all know what their main issue is.

Yep. I've said it time and time again. I don't being a little bit poorer if it means being far more democratic.

P.S: I don't give two hoots about immigration.

 

[typist]

So if we vote to leave then what are the chances that the SNP calls for another referendum on Scottish independence? I'm leaning towards a vote to remain just to minimise the chances that Scotland leaves the UK if we vote to leave the EU - because a UK without Scotland would probably stay quite conservative in the general elections, judging from the last election map. Is this a sound rationale?

 

[hodgy100]

Yep. I've said it time and time again. I don't being a little bit poorer if it means being far more democratic.

P.S: I don't give two hoots about immigration.

And what about your fellow countrymen that can't afford to be a little bit poorer?

 

[gerg]

So if we vote to leave then what are the chances that the SNP calls for another referendum on Scottish independence? I'm leaning towards a vote to remain just to minimise the chances that Scotland leaves the UK if we vote to leave the EU - because a UK without Scotland would probably stay quite conservative in the general elections, judging from the last election map. Is this a sound rationale?

Yes and no, in my opinion. A leave vote might increase the chances of Scotland being independent, but a remain vote won't (immediately) reduce the popularity of conservative parties in England either. (But vote remain anyway!)

 

[Ashes]

I have a simple mans theory. If someone killed a member of my family, would I want them to serve 20 years for murder, or would I want them to die...

I don't think you have a simple man's theory. Instead you are far more complicated. And you've put up a far more complicated theory because of that.

Let me explain. You remind me of my mother. She's very capable of rational thinking; but she prefers to understand her world through value based judgements.

However, her values differ to you.

In the above case, she would probably, I'm guessing, want mercy inflicted upon the wrong doer.

I remember very vividly what she said when Saddam was hanged. "Good people shouldn't be hanging people. "
It's not that she could not understand how horrible he was; instead, in her mind, it was just that you can't support murder, and say you are a good person. It was a conflict of values in her mind. You want to punish him? Lock him in jail, and have him reflect on what he has done for 20 years. And that is likely to incur more suffering than simple hanging anyway, if justice for you is about punishing people.

Now I have a very different way of rationalising things, but I wanted to point this out, so as to say, that not all people base their decisions on evidence and rational argument. It doesn't mean they are necessarily wrong either. So no, it isn't simple, it is a lot more complicated.

 

[Dambrosi]

Yep. I've said it time and time again. I don't being a little bit poorer if it means being far more democratic.

P.S: I don't give two hoots about immigration.

Haaaaahahahahahahaha--oh my God, you're serious.

Ian Duncan Smith's war on the disabled and poor, for example, was ideologically-minded and evil-spirited, and that was the official policy of a democratically elected government.

Democracy ain't the be-all and end-all panacea for the country's ills you seem to think it is.

You remind me of my mother. She's very capable of rational thinking; but she prefers to understand her world through value based judgements.

However, her values differ to you.

In the above case, she would probably, I'm guessing, want mercy inflicted upon the wrong doer.

I remember very vividly what she said when Saddam was hanged. "Good people shouldn't be hanging people. "
It's not that she could not understand how horrible he was; in her mind, you can't support murder, and say you are a good person. It was a conflict of values in her mind. You want to punish him? Lock him in jail, and have him reflect on what he has done for 20 years. And that is likely to incur more suffering than simple hanging anyway, if justice for you is about punishing people.

I think I'd like your mother. She seems very level-headed and pleasant to be around.

 

[Ashes]

I think I'd like your mother. She seems very level-headed and pleasant to be around.

Aye. She can be frustrating. But she is pleasant. I won't deny her that. Her niceness is infectious too.

 

[ShinRPGamer]

So John Oliver is currently talking about the Brexit right now. Expect the video to come up on Youtube tomorrow.