Surely they are learning their lessons from the Scottish referendum?
If they go all in one way they instantly piss off about 45-55% of voters
Brexit |OT| UK Referendum on EU Membership - 23 June 2016
- Thread starter QuicheFontaine
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Surely they are learning their lessons from the Scottish referendum?
If they go all in one way they instantly piss off about 45-55% of voters
Succinct Verbosity
Member
I am for remain, but whatever way it goes I would hope this puts this debate to a rest for at least a few decades. We can't keep holding referendums, that's way more destabilising than just accepting the result and moving on.
ferrasvansen
Member
Yeah but sadly I think it's going to be a growing phenomenon, keeps the press in work etc.
ferrasvansen
Member
ClosingADoor
Member
Wonder what the question will be in that case. Because if they give multiple options to leave and one to remain after all, the leave vote will split and remain will win probably.
http://www.google.com
It's a useful site for research.
Seriously? You are still doing this despite being called on it repeatedly by numerous posters in this thread?
The child benefit laws were taken to court. Last week the court said that it was lawful for the Uk to withhold benefits.
Literally the first find on google.
PJV3
Member
RedSparrows
Member
See, here's where my intolerance gland starts throbbing.
I'm all for better political education/a better press (however the hell we get that). But at the same time, I'm tempted to say to people like Wade 'fuck off, no vote for you until you fucking take some responsibility for your thoughts'.
We'd all be fucked if that happened, naturally, but still, the gland, she strong...
Wrestlemania
Banned
You really are making this thread a lot worse. Please stop.
Go big or go home.
What's your favourite colour?
Please record the correct RGB code:
I should become a comedian and only do jokes with referendums as a punchline.
Succinct Verbosity
Member
Speaking of the map posted earlier in this thread and growing up poor, I can say that there are a few reasons why people are voting to leave:
1) Lack of personal contact with immigrants. What I mean by that is a lot of people outside of cities hear stories about immigration, but rarely engage with immigrants themselves... It really does dehumanise a lot of people.
2) There is a genuine problem with unskilled immigration. I have never actually experienced this myself, but I can certainly see older members of my family who once only worked with British employees now working with far more eastern european ones. Is this a good thing or a bad thing? That's your choice, but that increasing sense of marginalisation on the bottom of the work ladder in incredibly real. That leads me onto...
3) Poverty. Just outside my city are the South Wales Valleys. The level of impoverishment in parts of Wales has to be seen to be believed. Whether it is rational or not, the EU is a system in which these poor areas operate. Naturally, in a system that doesn't work for the poor and unemployed, they are going to push back against that system and look towards something new. Incidentally, Wales itself recieves a lot of funding and development programs from the EU, but even then the protest vote is very real.
1) Lack of personal contact with immigrants. What I mean by that is a lot of people outside of cities hear stories about immigration, but rarely engage with immigrants themselves... It really does dehumanise a lot of people.
2) There is a genuine problem with unskilled immigration. I have never actually experienced this myself, but I can certainly see older members of my family who once only worked with British employees now working with far more eastern european ones. Is this a good thing or a bad thing? That's your choice, but that increasing sense of marginalisation on the bottom of the work ladder in incredibly real. That leads me onto...
3) Poverty. Just outside my city are the South Wales Valleys. The level of impoverishment in parts of Wales has to be seen to be believed. Whether it is rational or not, the EU is a system in which these poor areas operate. Naturally, in a system that doesn't work for the poor and unemployed, they are going to push back against that system and look towards something new. Incidentally, Wales itself recieves a lot of funding and development programs from the EU, but even then the protest vote is very real.
I'm really curious how could this work. Because the British negotiators have really no mandate if Leave wins.
Maybe hold GE and send Farage to negotiate afterwards. Also the fight between BJ and Farage in the follow-up GE will be spectacular.
And let's say that UK negotiate for 3-4 years with EU and reach some kind of agreement and then makes a referendum for this agreement and it's voted against. Then what?
Wrestlemania
Banned
Is this real?
It's not a public post, but based on the various things he's 'liked' and how many of them include Union jacks, Bulldogs and poppies, I'm going to guess its probably real.
I knew that, I am referring to working tax credits...this challenge is about right of residence, nothing to do with blocking working tax credits, it specifically states this
so getting of your high horse wont hurt
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2016...back-uk-limits-migrants-access-child-benefits
Why don't you stop replying then, no one forces you to read my posts, or forces you to be in this thread on that matter
Hope the Tories kick him out then.
Psychotext
Member
That's the really sad part. If it wasn't for the EU, areas like Merthyr would have been left to rot. Good luck getting Westminster (especially a tory government) to give a shit about those areas.
Wrestlemania
Banned
Oh, is he someone notable?
But he said he WASN'T racist before he started, so that negates any bad feeling.
Wrestlemania
Banned
It would be easier for us all if you'd spent a couple of minutes on Google before you post about things you've heard but aren't sure if they're true.
RedSparrows
Member
Yup. A lot of anti-EU stuff is really, I reckon, about anti-a-certain-kind-of-capitalism. The EU is another paradigm in which that capitalism lives and breathes. I don't know if we'd have a better kind within, or without, but the point is that question isn't really being asked, although some think it is. By saying no to Brussels you aren't saying no to austerity, for instance. Not really. Yet some kind of answer to this is clearly wanted and needed by people in Lincolnshire, Wales, Cornwall...
tldr: come the fuck on, Labour and the social democratic left across Europe.
I quote
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2016...back-uk-limits-migrants-access-child-benefits
but of course that does not fit you and the others agenda, sticking your head in the sand over this 'all things are great' with the EU, lets shout down anyone who dares to disagree is nonsense and actually makes you look worse than leave voters
my question was fully valid and correct....and oh look it is going to get challenged, but of course you guys dont want to hear that
QuicheFontaine
Member
So what are these 'Purdah' rules exactly? Isn't Dave basically using 'machinery of government' to give an address from outside Number 10 right now?
That's not how a forum works. You constantly derail the thread by carpet-bombing it with posts of unsourced BS.
Still claiming you're the only pro-Brexit poster in the thread?
ferrasvansen
Member
Nope they cleared it as long as he wasn't using the pedestal with crests etc on it. Same as Gove and Co standing outside parliament.
FlammableD
Banned
I quote (from the headline of that article)
"EU court to back UK limits on migrants' access to child benefits
European court of justice set to throw out challenge by European commission over right to residence requirement"
PJV3
Member
He has his own political staff, but normal government carries on.
ClosingADoor
Member
I quote
What's the issue exactly? Poland trying to get the most for its citizens? Are you also complaining if the UK challenges EU rules that are against British interest?
ClosingADoor
Member
We are going to use hypothetical future rulings now as a reason for outrage? What is your point exactly here?
It doesn't seem like the strongest argument to say that something may happen at some unknown point in the future, and a judgment taken then might go against the interests of the UK.
No, I am saying Cameron claiming the referendum is based on a reformed EU, but he can not say that as all the changes (benefit wise) can and will be challenged, so if one gets overturned the basis for the referendum is null and void
ClosingADoor
Member
Again, so what? Countries have the right to challenge EU rulings. You should be happy about this! Britain can do exactly the same then if they think an EU decision is against their citizens interest.
well remain and leave are using hypothetical to get your vote, but now it is not allowed?
do you think your 500 experts you remain lot keep rolling out every page really know what will happen
ClosingADoor
Member
In those cases people have looked at the numbers and make a reasonable prediction about the outcome. We know the trade numbers, the income and outcome of money and can reasonably say "this will have a negative impact."
That is totally different then saying "well, in 10 years, maybe the court will decide differently!"
lifa-cobex
Member
I imagine tension will be present with common folk for a good while no matter which way the vote goes.
ferrasvansen
Member
"You remain lot" , that's nice and erm these experts spend years in education and gaining experience in their fields, better than old Jim down the pig and whistle for sure lol who is more experienced on how many pork scratchings you get in a packet than economic matters.
Careful, your true colours are starting to show now. Got to keep that anti-intellectual streak under wraps!
Random hypothetical about a possible future that almost certainly won't happen, versus basically the entirety of the worlds finance and economics community saying the same thing. Totally the same thing!
QuicheFontaine
Member
It just seems like a fine line is all :-/
jufonuk
not tag worthy
Remain on the whole have actually talked figures and facts. Not what ifs and our their arses, oh no the immigrants are coming. Take back control.
Basically the most right wing Tory since Thatcher is telling us it will be a dumb idea.
The wholw world is watching and waiting because what we do will have a knock on effect
Psychotext
Member
They'll be considerably more British and delicious.
It's quite astounding the amount of people that don't understand that this is a two way street.
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