Brexit |OT| UK Referendum on EU Membership - 23 June 2016

Did you vote for the side that is going to win?


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His generation fought against a unified Europe...

That's one way of looking at those days. I think of fascists and ultra-nationalists seizing power throughout Europe, often through violent means, and seeking to subjugate or destroy others. I think of the explicit rejection of internationalism, and the identification of it with the Jewish people. I think of a time when people were dehumanized because of where they came from or who they were, and then exterminated because of it. I think of a time when people with opposing political views were murdered in cold blood.

Implicitly or explicitly equating the ideals of the European Union with those of Nazi Germany is one of the quickest ways to lose all of my respect. It is vile.
 
Let me tell you about the ramifications on a small business then. I import nearly all my stock, priced in US dollars and euros, from China, Czech Republic and USA. If the pound tanks, my costs go up. So do most other people's costs. Most of my customers are on low incomes, so I can't increase prices, so I get less to live on.

If you get your 10-20 years of levelling out or whatever you call it, I lose out and my customers lose out.

I have a small but immediate dilemma. Do I order half a ton of stock today, or wait until Monday? The difference between a leave vote and a remain vote is significant in that decision and in the viability of my business.


Ordering now would not be good as they wont charged your card until tomorrow at the earliest, so if we leave you will get done...

did you see my post about using your skills on conveyancing
 
His generation fought against a unified Europe...
Go eat a croissant.

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French launch 'Operation Croissant' to thwart Brexit - The Local

https://twitter.com/hashtag/operationcroissant?src=hash
 
Hopkins is pro-leave?

Why would any living creature with a brain vote the same as hopkins

Why on earth would any living creature with a brain base their vote on how other people are voting?

My reasons for wanting to leave are my own, and I haven't heard a single argument as to why my reasons aren't valid. I don't care who is voting leave or remain. All I hope is that more people vote to leave than remain, but I would want their reasons to be their own.
 
Ladbrokes: Average bet size
REMAIN £376
LEAVE £72

Sceptics are saying this shows the remain is all about the elite! in a twitter feed...even I will call that nonsence
 
Hopkins is pro-leave?

Why would any living creature with a brain vote the same as hopkins

Are you surprised that Hopkins is pro-leave? She's the vile piece of shit who said Syrian refugees were 'like cockroaches' and we should stop refugee boats with gunships.

And before anyone says anything I'm not saying everyone who's pro-leave is bigoted (of course they're not), but most bigots seem to be pro-leave.
 
Was out campaigning with a very senior figure today.

Spoke to a 95 year old ww2 RAF pilot. Said it's breaking his heart to see the generation below him ruin the country while they sit safe on occupational pensions. He was sad that all that his generation fought for could be thrown away for the reasons they fought against.

Radio 5 live had someone similar. But first they had a gentleman who was of the older ilk shall I say, and he said he was undecided, but after hearing Boris, he was a convinced Brexiter. Asked about ramifications and economy crashing, he didn't reply really, just tried again to explain how Boris convinced him.

And then we had a really old sounding lady, who talked about ww2, and about what was happening now, and you could tell her heart was breaking. It was actually quite touching.
 
Are you surprised that Hopkins is pro-leave? She's the vile piece of shit who said Syrian refugees were 'like cockroaches' and we should stop refugee boats with gunships.

And before anyone says anything I'm not saying everyone who's pro-leave is bigoted (of course they're not), but most bigots seem to be pro-leave.
"Not racist but no 1 with racists" pretty much. Again not painting everyone with that brush, there are fair reasons to leave the eu that aren't bigoted.
 
"Not racist but no 1 with racists" pretty much. Again not painting everyone with that brush, there are fair reasons to leave the eu that aren't bigoted.

Exactly, I might not agree with the leave camp on this but I understand that you can have legitimate grievances with the EU.
 
you guys will love this


Johnson petitioning for Turkey to join EU

https://www.facebook.com/BuzzFeedUKPolitics/videos/977419255670243/

Boris Johnson strongly made the case for Turkey to be admitted to the EU and said he could not wait for the “great moment” when the two halves of the Roman Empire “are at last reunited in an expanded European Union” in a documentary he made for the BBC.
Before he became mayor of London, Johnson, who is now campaigning for Britain to leave the EU and says he supports tougher controls on migration into the UK, made an impassioned case for Turkey to be admitted to an enlarged EU in a 2006 film named The Dream of Rome.
 

Organisers had hoped to distribute freshly-baked croissants with the roughly 500 postcards sending greetings from the city of love ahead of Thursday's European Union membership vote.

But their plans were scuppered by British police, who cited laws banning campaigners from providing food to voters in the run-up to an election because it could corrupt the result.

No fun allowed.
I wonder what they did with all the croissants, then. :P
 
Dare to give more details how you mean this?

That generation fought against unifying Europe through fascism, then communism and then by voting against joining the original EU trade agreement but were ultimately outweighed by the younger generation post baby boom, industrial anger and during the birth of the 'hippy' years in want of a better term.

Trying to evoke sentiment by saying 'I spoke to a 95 year old WW2 vet!' is a pretty shallow attempt.
 
Juncker has claimed there'll be no kind of negotiation in the event of a leave vote.

Fair enough but my understanding of EU rules is that there is some negotiation process as part of Article 50? They might not want to do anything, but that's part of it, isn't it?
 
It's also worth mentioning that Labour voters largely did not know the position of the party.

Their reason for voting out was mainly 'it's our one chance to get rid of the immigrants'.

Corbyn is as much to blame as Johnson and Gove if we do leave. It is unthinkable incompetence from the supposed leader of the Labour party to end up in a situation where his own voters don't know that he's on the remain side.
 
Juncker has claimed there'll be no kind of negotiation in the event of a leave vote.

Fair enough but my understanding of EU rules is that there is some negotiation process as part of Article 50? They might not want to do anything, but that's part of it, isn't it?


It's more a divorce settlement than a negotiation.
 
Why on earth would any living creature with a brain base their vote on how other people are voting?

My reasons for wanting to leave are my own, and I haven't heard a single argument as to why my reasons aren't valid. I don't care who is voting leave or remain. All I hope is that more people vote to leave than remain, but I would want their reasons to be their own.

You wouldn't vote for the same party as Hitler would you?
 
That generation fought against unifying Europe through fascism, then communism and then by voting against joining the original EU trade agreement but were ultimately outweighed by the younger generation post baby boom, industrial anger and during the birth of the 'hippy' years in want of a better term.

Trying to evoke sentiment by saying 'I spoke to a 95 year old WW2 vet!' is a pretty shallow attempt.
I don't think it is very fair or useful to put fascism and communism on the same level as the EU. There is just a it of a difference between those things don't you think.

Juncker has claimed there'll be no kind of negotiation in the event of a leave vote.

Fair enough but my understanding of EU rules is that there is some negotiation process as part of Article 50? They might not want to do anything, but that's part of it, isn't it?
He pretty much has to say it, but of course there will be some negotiating.
 
The British Empire is (thankfully) over. The commonwealth is cool (I am an Australian citizen after all) but why do we seem to be focusing on countries that are thousands of kilometres away from us rather than only hundreds?

Australia, Canada, New Zealand... they're all evolving in their own ways too. As time goes on, we're going to find ourselves having less in common culturally and politically with the other commonwealth nations as they forge their own destinies. Europe is growing and in a world that is coming increasingly global and the issues that affect us are international by their very nature, why would we consider turning our backs on our own neighbours? It literally makes no sense to me.

It is?
 
That generation fought against unifying Europe through fascism, then communism and then by voting against joining the original EU trade agreement but were ultimately outweighed by the younger generation post baby boom, industrial anger and during the birth of the 'hippy' years in want of a better term.

Trying to evoke sentiment by saying 'I spoke to a 95 year old WW2 vet!' is a pretty shallow attempt.

I gave you his words, not my own.
 
If anyone reading this thread is still undecided about which way you want to vote tomorrow....

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is that not directly the opposite of what the remain camp are saying, all along we have heard 'once in a generation'

and Scotland will tell you, it is not as simple as simply asking for another referendum
 
Why on earth would any living creature with a brain base their vote on how other people are voting?

My reasons for wanting to leave are my own, and I haven't heard a single argument as to why my reasons aren't valid. I don't care who is voting leave or remain. All I hope is that more people vote to leave than remain, but I would want their reasons to be their own.

What is your chief reason?
 
I don't think it is very fair or useful to put fascism and communism on the same level as the EU. There is just a it of a difference between those things don't you think.


He pretty much has to say it, but of course there will be some negotiating.

Yeah, but not in the sense of improving the UK position. It's stuff like what to do with citizens abroad etc.
 
If anyone reading this thread is still undecided about which way you want to vote tomorrow....

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I disagree with this. The likelihood of another referendum in our lifetime appears to be pretty slim - I don't believe for a second we will get another chance in the next few decades.. And if we did leave and then want back in, the EU would be committing a PR disaster by refusing us so I think they'd welcome us back with open arms. Just my two pennies worth.

The U.K. is a vital and large component of the EU sanctions. Without the UK there wouldn't have been the sanctions over the Ukraine, for example. One of the things the UK contributes to Europe is diplomacy and foreign policy action - both the EU and the U.K. Will be significantly weaker and less able to act on the world stage should Brexit occur.

Again, I disagree. UK isn't the be all and end all of EU who I'm sure would have been more than capable of acting without us. Just because we're not in the EU it doesn't mean we're not allies with the rest of Europe. We can still carry out our own sanctions etc. and if it's the right thing to do, EU will follow suit.
 
is that not directly the opposite of what the remain camp are saying, all along we have heard 'once in a generation'

and Scotland will tell you, it is not as simple as simply asking for another referendum

I'm pretty sure you're mixing up this referendum and the Scottish one with that once in a generation thing.

Also you're misunderstanding/misreading, it's saying that if we leave there's no going back, but if we remain we can still leave in the future. Nothing about holding another referendum.
 
I disagree with this. The likelihood of another referendum in our lifetime appears to be pretty slim - I don't believe for a second we will get another chance in the next few decades.. And if we did leave and then want back in, the EU would be committing a PR disaster by refusing us so I think they'd welcome us back with open arms. Just my two pennies worth.
That is really up to the UK itself, not the EU. If in 4, 8, 12 or 20 years time the UK decides they want to go out then, they can do so. The option is there, just have to convince your own government to do it. Nobody in the EU can stop it. So in that way, it is not a once in a lifetime thing at all.
 

Consensus GDP forecast 2016e

Eurozone +1.6%
Germany 1.7
France 1.5
Spain 2.8
Italy 1.1

Poland 3.5
Hungary 2.3

U.K. 1.9
US 1.9
Japan 0.5

Europe is still growing despite the self inflicted Euro madness, strikes in France and political turmoil in Italy. The eurozone collective deficit itself can be funded by just 3mths of ECB. But I guess the everything is on fire narrative is easier to sell.
 
That generation fought against unifying Europe through fascism, then communism and then by voting against joining the original EU trade agreement but were ultimately outweighed by the younger generation post baby boom, industrial anger and during the birth of the 'hippy' years in want of a better term.

Trying to evoke sentiment by saying 'I spoke to a 95 year old WW2 vet!' is a pretty shallow attempt.

You do know that the EU:s biggest contribution is no more war in Europe right?
 
The Metro has a big ad for Leave on it. I'm typically too lazy to pick up any other paper and use Bing News, but I still get to be disgusted. Who runs the Metro?
 
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