Brexit |OT| UK Referendum on EU Membership - 23 June 2016

Did you vote for the side that is going to win?

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D

DontBeThatGuy

Member
Stumpokapow said:
This is true the same way that people who are against same-sex marriage or racial integration or the people who whooped and hollared at Enoch Powell 40 years ago are all responding to very real anxiety about the changing world. The classic divide between urban-rural or cosmopolitan-provincial. I agree that it's impossible to discard the role fear plays in governing these peoples' daily existence, but the response to that is not to mollycoddle the fearful at the expense of whatever outgroup is currently being scapegoated as they lead their daily life. It's all well and good to say "What about the men who suddenly sees women in a full veil", but he's suffering a far lesser offence than the woman wearing the veil who gets leered at, yelled at, or worse--used as an example of the evil forces conspiring to destroy the nation. The specifics of integration issues vary across time and space, but the core is the same: I would absolutely always want to take the side of kindness and fraternity than the side of fearfulness and bunkering. it's the same in every country. In America it's worries about taquerias and fruit guys speaking spanish and playing footie, in England it's people named Muhammed. I know of course that these people are not cartoonish racist fascists, they're simply isolated and fearful of a changing world.

The government can be blamed for its failure to provide for the economic prosperity and quality of life of the working poor, of course, but not for ignoring the racist calls to Make England English Again. Even if it causes tension and anxiety in the mean time, we need to encourage a spirit of cosmopolitan brotherhood.

I mean, the language stuff is a perfect point. Yes, there are many people who get anxious and angry when they hear people speaking non-English languages. And? A man walking down the road should be able to speak English. Or French. Or Spanish. Or Farsi. Or !Kung! Or even terrorist languages like Arabic or Mohammed. Stripping their dignity by saying they are somehow less human--or less a part of England--or less in any way because of that difference is giving into fear.

I think your post is telling because it dispenses with the pseudo-economic arguments and makes this what it really is: a referendum about how comfortable one is with the strange and foreign ways the country is changing. Glad we're no longer pretending.
Click to expand...

This is such a great post btw
 
C

Cromwell

Banned
Chinese Cartoons said:
"EU is undemocratic and corrupt!"

UL3vyRE.png


Sun readers, or is that also a insult to the working class?
Click to expand...

No surprises there. This plays right into Trump's hand, too. If it's Leave, he'll be talking about how smart Britain is.

God damnnit.
 
A

Acorn

Member
thepotatoman said:
Only if the world economy is more unstable than it currently looks.

Voting to leave is stupid, but I think the damage can be mitigated.

World markets will pull back, but probably won't crash.
Click to expand...
The correction of the assumption of the market will be a black Friday.
 
K

Kathian

Banned
Am going to put on my Leave UK hat now. Sorry guys. Hopefully Britain goes mad for a short while; more chaos the better. PM BoJo; Chancellor Gove.

Wonder how early we could hold another ref. For Scottish Indy.
 
M

mclem

Member
I must be getting old, I've hit the point where I simply have to swap to watching in bed. Which probably means about five minutes of being reawoken by dropping my tablet onto my nose.
 
D

Danchi

Member
ReplacementPelican said:
Yes. We are young, intellectual and have good jobs, that's our downfall. Maybe your downfall is assuming we all conveniently fit into your little cliche.

I blame the, as you call them, plebs for consistently voting against their interests, yes. They vote Tory, get fucked and then blame immigrants with language that is at best borderline racist. After all, if it walks and quacks like a duck it's probably a duck.
Click to expand...

I really don't think the people Red Liquorice is talking about voted Tory in the last general election. Most probably voted Labour, with those feeling the most disenfranchised voting UKIP.

Ironically, it's the Tory strongholds in the south that we're hoping get us out of this mess by voting to remain.
 
U

User1608

Banned
Aki-at said:
How many Muslims come from the EU?

Like seriously I'm sick of my religious belief being vilified first in the Mayoral election and now in the referendum.

I'm not going to empathise with people who think I'm a stain on society, my level of compassion doesn't stretch that far. A racist is a racist.
Click to expand...
I can empathize and relate to an extent where here in the US I (latinos, hispanics) hear racists constantly othering us, telling us to speak American, not speak spanish, to go back and so on. Just want to share my own experiences and say I'm sorry you have to go through that over there too.
 
D

DorkLord54

Member
Cromwell said:
No surprises there. This plays right into Trump's hand, too. If it's Leave, he'll be talking about how smart Britain is.

God damnnit.
Click to expand...

Not really, as it could devastatingly backfire on him. If the economy crashes because of this, it makes him look like an idiot, and he can't backpedal on this statement. It'll kill his ratings even more than they already are.
 
R

Red Liquorice

Member
Stumpokapow said:
This is true the same way that people who are against same-sex marriage or racial integration or the people who whooped and hollared at Enoch Powell 40 years ago are all responding to very real anxiety about the changing world. The classic divide between urban-rural or cosmopolitan-provincial. I agree that it's impossible to discard the role fear plays in governing these peoples' daily existence, but the response to that is not to mollycoddle the fearful at the expense of whatever outgroup is currently being scapegoated as they lead their daily life. It's all well and good to say "What about the men who suddenly sees women in a full veil", but he's suffering a far lesser offence than the woman wearing the veil who gets leered at, yelled at, or worse--used as an example of the evil forces conspiring to destroy the nation. The specifics of integration issues vary across time and space, but the core is the same: I would absolutely always want to take the side of kindness and fraternity than the side of fearfulness and bunkering. it's the same in every country. In America it's worries about taquerias and fruit guys speaking spanish and playing footie, in England it's people named Muhammed. I know of course that these people are not cartoonish racist fascists, they're simply isolated and fearful of a changing world.

The government can be blamed for its failure to provide for the economic prosperity and quality of life of the working poor, of course, but not for ignoring the racist calls to Make England English Again. Even if it causes tension and anxiety in the mean time, we need to encourage a spirit of cosmopolitan brotherhood.

I mean, the language stuff is a perfect point. Yes, there are many people who get anxious and angry when they hear people speaking non-English languages. And? A man walking down the road should be able to speak English. Or French. Or Spanish. Or Farsi. Or !Kung! Or even terrorist languages like Arabic or Mohammed. Stripping their dignity by saying they are somehow less human--or less a part of England--or less in any way because of that difference is giving into fear.

I think your post is telling because it dispenses with the pseudo-economic arguments and makes this what it really is: a referendum about how comfortable one is with the strange and foreign ways the country is changing. Glad we're no longer pretending.
Click to expand...
I agree with you completely. But I also wanted to just say something from the other side of the glass because for a few pages back it seemed there were panicked posts and blaming the "plebs" (who have now been demoted to sub-human orcs apparently) from people who don't seem to come in to contact much with the people they're blaming.

I actually thought my post would get ripped to shreads, so thank you for a considered response to my devil's advocate.
 
P

plagiarize

Banned
I don't think leaving would be the disaster people have been saying, but it would accelerate the UKs depressing slide towardshow isolationism, racism and anti immigrant sentiment. And will accelerate me becoming an American citizen so long as the US doesn't elect Trump. Because there would be no moral high ground to be had standing with Trumpnation.
 
B

Boy Wander

Member
Acorn said:
Are there 16.4 m racists?
Click to expand...

There could well be 16.4 million people outside of London pissed off enough with the establishment in the capital to vote Leave as a way of kicking them in the balls.

The problem with referendums in general is that they rarely end up being just about the issue being debated.
 
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