MilkyJoe
Member
That's an L o L moment
PS4 Neo presentation might have leaked
- Thread starter Nibel
- Start date
That's an L o L moment
Fahzgoolin
Banned
nah, just go full Nintendo
I don't see a PS5 happening till at least 2019. But yeah, when it does come out, it'll be a true next-gen leap from what we have right now due to tech & component advancements. The Scorpio isn't that, despite some people acting like it is.
You'd quit gaming before #SpidermanPS4 comes out?
MilkyJoe
Member
And another L o L
I hope spider-man is out before then
Unless they announce "2017" at or before PSX, I don't see it next year.
I think you need some help. Getting random laughing attacks all the time.
nah I got a good feeling about 2017
gundamkyoukai
Member
What does that even mean ?
I also don't think Scorpio is a full next gen jump .
Then again PS4 and X1 were not that great after 8 years at least gpu and cpu wise.
He's just getting laughing attacks. I think it's best to just leave him alone.
Why does it need to last that long? If the next node shrink is 5+ years out, there is capacity for a neo replacement before that, on a mature 14/16nm node with HBM and large die. Then move to 7nm the gen after that.
HBM would be over kill on a APU on the current node. You are not going to get a great leap over the Scorpio till the next node shrink. It make no sense to release lets say a 8tf navi with a zen in 2018 then a PS5 in 2021. That would just start pissing off a lot of gamers with a new machine ever 2-3 years. The NEO needs to be powerful enough to hold its own until the next node shrink and the PS5. The console described in the documents certainly is not powerful enough to last till the next node shrink with out looking extremely outdated.
wonderful103
Member
Curb your expectations. You're getting iterative from now on, with smaller more sensible upgrades each time
MilkyJoe
Member
Makes me chuckle that you say that and forget Neo
gundamkyoukai
Member
How am i forgetting Neo ?
When did anyone ever say Neo is a next jump gen ?
I sure as hell did not .
I really don't see it taking longer than 4 years for the next node shrink .
We should see 10nm at least in 2019 which will be the prefect time for PS5.
I'm ok with the specs as long as this is a 2016 console.
Didn't Osiris mention in June that we would hear something official ''soon''?
Its becoming a bit long in the tooth now - is there anyone that can even give a ballpark hint as to when this thing will be officially revealed?
This will definitely not be announced on PS Blog - the messaging is too important and Andrew House needs to be up on stage selling this as it is unprecedented in terms of the traditional console lifecycle.
I'm very excited tho at the prospect of PS Neo and just want Sony to get on with the official reveal, especially since Gamescom is off the cards and it would make -0% sense to reveal this in Japan at TGS.
Didn't Osiris mention in June that we would hear something official ''soon''?
Its becoming a bit long in the tooth now - is there anyone that can even give a ballpark hint as to when this thing will be officially revealed?
This will definitely not be announced on PS Blog - the messaging is too important and Andrew House needs to be up on stage selling this as it is unprecedented in terms of the traditional console lifecycle.
I'm very excited tho at the prospect of PS Neo and just want Sony to get on with the official reveal, especially since Gamescom is off the cards and it would make -0% sense to reveal this in Japan at TGS.
MilkyJoe
Member
Well you're not getting a playstation 5 anytime soon
geordiemp
Member
1 . Neo will still have a shit Jaguar CPU. Good luck with 60 FPS gaming. Jaguar is Atom class. Nobody wants another Jaguar console.
2. Zen is an I5 class CPU target, coming end of year. If Sony waited a few more months, the CPU could have zen cores and be a proper upgrade.
3. If Neo comes out in end 2016, then next iteration will be 2019 so not to upset new Neo owners..
4. The next best technology for consoles is 2017 with zen + Polaris. This is what Neo SHOULD be, a ZEN console in 2017. $ 399 is great price, but CPU bottle neck for allot of games is the real danger. Imagine a $ 499 Neo that could blitz games at 60 FPS.....mmm
5. Who wants 4K 30 FPS gaming upscaled ?
Neo is fucking up the ability to get a zen apu console from Sony until 2019, and Sony obviously just cant wait for the proper Neo upgrades and just want those Xmas sales IMO.
I can see DF articles next year, yes image is nice but temporal artefacts when moving can be distracting, and the frame rate is still stuck at 30 with dips to 25 FPS in busy scenes in Gta5 Neo mode.....we suspect the known weak Jaguar cores are the bottleneck in busy scenes....
6TF is nothing. That's 480 level performance which is a relatively small card. By the time you have a mature process you could probably get double that performance in a few years. There is still lots of capacity to improve on the current node which is still relatively new
gundamkyoukai
Member
Was not expecting PS5 till 2019\2020 .
Guess it also depends on how Neo does and die shrinks .
Respectfully disagree, especially since so few people have 4k hdtvs. @ 1080p Neo games will look fantastic, by 2020 4k tvs will be around 50% market penetration. 2020/2021 Imo is about right for next gen.
You know when Scorpio comes out and almost all its games are 30fps I'm gonna laugh.
gundamkyoukai
Member
I rather Sony bring out Neo this year and come 2019 we get a good jump with HBM and a die shrink .
geordiemp
Member
If they stick with Jaguar then your probably right. MS just said 8 core CPU........
I doubt they would be stupid and go Jaguar again, but who knows. Would make me laugh as well.
JumPeRJumPzZ
Banned
Why do you want a better CPU so hard? I mean both console upgrades still have to keep the OG versions in mind.
Why should i care about a better CPU if the Neo version of game X will still have the same framerate as the OG PS4 version?
This upclocked Jaguar will help some OG PS4 60fps games to keeo its target. Battlefield 1 could be a good test for that to look at.
I still think that we should just wait for a proper showing and benchmarks.
I mean its god damn impressive that a 1.6GHZ Jaguar CPU is capable of running 64 Players Battlefield games.
geordiemp
Member
Because we have PC devs - does that answer your OG Ps4 question ? Frame rate options have been around for how many years now ? You make it sound like its unreachable...
And the dream of playing witcher 3 or GTA 5 in glorious 60 FPS.
One day a console will come with a zen CPU and this maybe possible...one day. I had my hopes with Neo...and a jaguar APU would be a massive disappointment and the low cost cheaper option for Sony.
That's not true since Andrew house says the exact opposite of what your saying in terms of iteration.
If your point is that 'generational upgrades' on the scale that we know them are done, that's common sense due to how components are advancing. By default, we will not have more than double to 3x the amount of RAM in a hypothetical PS5(compared to 10x from PS3 to PS4), and the GPU in 2019 may be able to hit 10+tflops, but to get anywhere close to 10x, like PS3 to PS4, would mean getting close to 20tflops which would be impossible outside of the biggest dedicated GPU's i feel. So the jumps are def getting smaller and smaller in certain ways.
But trying to equate a PS4 to NEO like upgrade to PS5 i think is unfounded.
NEO uses the same parts marginally upclocked, and a better GPU, a N3DS type upgrade rather than a brand new console.
If PS5 uses Zen, 16-24GB HBM3 and whatever mid to high end GPU is available at the time, that will be a generation level jump in terms of CPU power, memory bandwidth and even GPU architecture, let alone a significant RAM increase.
My point being, don't expect PS5 to follow generations past in ters of multipliers, but the power differential will still be significantly more than what an iterative unit like NEO would present. That i think is what Sony will try to illustrate in the difference between a numbered mainline PS console and a NEO iterative unit in 2019-2020.
gundamkyoukai
Member
More like one day maybe devs will choose fps over eye candy for open world games.
They start doing it on consoles for FPS games so maybe open world games next zen or no zen .
I still don't think that many open world games would be 60fps, even with a better CPU. Huge compromises are still being made in LoD and asset streaming so those would probably be where devs would focus first. I would like more linear games to target it if the CPU is up to the task though.
I don't think developers will spend much time on the NEO/Scorpio. The NEO/Scorpio will just get high/ultra settings of the PC version. I think the Scorpio should be able to handle the vast majority of the PC games at high/ultra at 1080/p60FPS if it uses the Zen. On first party titles sure there will be a lot of extra love and some 30fps games on the Scorpio. The NEO yeah I expect a lot of 30FPS games especially anything open world.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
Dont know why people think console games are going to be 60 FPS all of sudden.
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
Lots of folks are caught up in the kind "hardware wars" mindset that should be reserved for the PS5/Xbox Next, or whatever we get after these upgrades.
Too much of an upgrade risks alienating the current userbase, and adding in a new architecture could cause more trouble for developers trying to support/port between both models. Neo not being allowed to have exclusive modes renders a lot of the gains of a more aggressive upgrade largely moot.
An AMD i5 equivalent CPU is likely overkill given most developers will be using the vanilla PS4 as their base platform.
Too much of an upgrade risks alienating the current userbase, and adding in a new architecture could cause more trouble for developers trying to support/port between both models. Neo not being allowed to have exclusive modes renders a lot of the gains of a more aggressive upgrade largely moot.
An AMD i5 equivalent CPU is likely overkill given most developers will be using the vanilla PS4 as their base platform.
I disagree on that the Scorpio will be a huge APU. It may have 480+ performance but because of heat it will need 20-30% more CUs to get to that performance. Then you add in a Zen variant and that is just huge. You are not going to double the size of that APU on the current process. At best you get some better clocks with Navi and bring out a APU 50% better than Scorpio.
GTR R35_Supra RZ
Banned
Who said it was? It just that what Scorp has in the box spec wise its an animal... you can't put PS4 neo near scorp in the same sentence or in any conversation comparing the 2.
Neo's melting just thinking about what's under Scorpios hood.
The fact that console Zen might be i5 level and that is cause for celebration says more about how far intel is ahead in the CPU space compared to AMD than anything. Not particularly complaining about it though since that's still a huge upgrade to Jaguar, especially per core
anothertech
Member
No we're getting a Neo, very soon. It's going to make Xbox games look like bath water for a year.
Truth is, we're not getting a Scorpio anytime soon. And when we do, most of us will be ready for an actual generational leap, in 2019, with hbm and actual 4K rendered games, with floating point operations well beyond the 10tf mark, it will be called the PS5.
Xbox will have to wait at least a year after that, more likely 2 or 3, for their next iteration because Scorpio is released so late.
Once again Sony playing their cards right.
family_guy
Member
Some need to look at Sony as a business overall the past 3 years. This is the same company that was selling buildings and their PC business off just so they can stay above water. They are more conservative to their approach with technology now. It needs to be profitable for them. In fact, you might say they've become more like Apple and less like Samsung. You're not going to get the best of the best, but it will be sufficient until the cost of the technology decreases.
Microsoft came right out and said Scorpio is a premium product. The Xbox One launched at $500. Scorpio is going to be at that price at the minimum. You'd think they wouldn't be dumb enough to repeat the PS3 $599 US price, but I think they are going to have to if they want to achieve the level of performance they are boasting about at the time they plan on launching. I can also see multiple scenarios happening here. 1) They realize they can't get the components at a mass produced level in time for a fall/winter 2017 launch, so the system gets pushed back to 2018. 2) They realize it's going to cost them too much to achieve what they initially planned, so they scale back the specs, but don't publicly mention it. You'll never see a spec chart again from them, but the public will figure it out eventually 3) They say to hell with it, we said it would be a premium product so the consumer needs to pay up. It will be like the reception of the HTC Vive. Their owners are happy. There's just not very many of them. Devs may not see a point in maximizing performance for such a small consumer base. Probably won't even see a significant difference in performance compared to Neo in the same games for the first year or so.
Meanwhile Neo has been out a year, and out the gate it's $200-300 cheaper than Scorpio when it launches. Now we have an Xbox 360 vs PS3 scenario. Remember it's down to the developers on how well the games perform so when we see the same game on both consoles people might be saying the same thing they did 10 years ago, "Scorpio(PS3) doesn't look $200 better than Neo(360). I'll go with Neo(360)." Then there's also the PS2 vs Xbox scenario. The majority weren't flocking to Xbox based on specs. People go where the games are. Sony's doing very well in that regard. They would have to colossally screw up to lose that momentum. A new, more powerful system just isn't going to be enough to hurt Sony.
Microsoft came right out and said Scorpio is a premium product. The Xbox One launched at $500. Scorpio is going to be at that price at the minimum. You'd think they wouldn't be dumb enough to repeat the PS3 $599 US price, but I think they are going to have to if they want to achieve the level of performance they are boasting about at the time they plan on launching. I can also see multiple scenarios happening here. 1) They realize they can't get the components at a mass produced level in time for a fall/winter 2017 launch, so the system gets pushed back to 2018. 2) They realize it's going to cost them too much to achieve what they initially planned, so they scale back the specs, but don't publicly mention it. You'll never see a spec chart again from them, but the public will figure it out eventually 3) They say to hell with it, we said it would be a premium product so the consumer needs to pay up. It will be like the reception of the HTC Vive. Their owners are happy. There's just not very many of them. Devs may not see a point in maximizing performance for such a small consumer base. Probably won't even see a significant difference in performance compared to Neo in the same games for the first year or so.
Meanwhile Neo has been out a year, and out the gate it's $200-300 cheaper than Scorpio when it launches. Now we have an Xbox 360 vs PS3 scenario. Remember it's down to the developers on how well the games perform so when we see the same game on both consoles people might be saying the same thing they did 10 years ago, "Scorpio(PS3) doesn't look $200 better than Neo(360). I'll go with Neo(360)." Then there's also the PS2 vs Xbox scenario. The majority weren't flocking to Xbox based on specs. People go where the games are. Sony's doing very well in that regard. They would have to colossally screw up to lose that momentum. A new, more powerful system just isn't going to be enough to hurt Sony.
gundamkyoukai
Member
Have you been in one of these threads before ?
Also it should be more powerful if the rumors hold true Scorpio coming out a year later .
With Neo coming out this year .
Hawk269
Member
You sound like your sleeping with Sony.
anothertech
Member
This is going to make more of a difference than a few extra CU's under the hood IMO.
They are essentially releasing 'the most powerful console ever made' a year before Xbox. When players see how much the game performance and iq is increased, people will flock to it for a year.
This will be the bigger factor against Scorpio, regardless of power. We've seen this scenario before.
anothertech
Member
I guess I'm sleeping with MS and Nintendo too since I buy all their consoles? lol
I'm just stating things as they are. And MS is still doing it wrong IMO. Sony keeps playing their hands very smartly.
oldergamer
Member
No they didnt beef up the specs. That was a idea floated here on gaf once Scorpio was announced. All that tslk should stop here.
Its launching in October as i mentioned before. The specs are set in stone. They already sent out dev kits a while back.
Thinking about it now, I'm just wondering how much of a wow factor the Scorpio is truly going to have when it launches.
The difference between the Scorpio and Neo in terms of power, percentage wise is almmost the same as the difference between PS4 and Xbox One.
Xbox One vs PS4 = 1.31/1.84 = 71.19%
Neo vs Scorpio = 4.19/6.00 = 69.83%
-Most people won't have a proper 4ktv for a few years so they won't see most of the difference that could be had in resolution clarity at those levels.
-Xbox One games fare generally well against the PS4 versions (nothing as bad as the early ps3 v 360 comparisons).
-We're going to be seeing Neo enhanced games (that includes a bunch of exclusives) for nearly a year by the time the Scorpio comes out. It'll be the "most powerful console ever" by a good margin compared to its competition during this year.
So when the Scorpio launches, will the wow factor really be there? Do people really go wow when they see the differences between an average xbox one and ps4 version of the same game?
This whole launching a year ahead thing is actually a pretty big deal when you think about it.
The difference between the Scorpio and Neo in terms of power, percentage wise is almmost the same as the difference between PS4 and Xbox One.
Xbox One vs PS4 = 1.31/1.84 = 71.19%
Neo vs Scorpio = 4.19/6.00 = 69.83%
-Most people won't have a proper 4ktv for a few years so they won't see most of the difference that could be had in resolution clarity at those levels.
-Xbox One games fare generally well against the PS4 versions (nothing as bad as the early ps3 v 360 comparisons).
-We're going to be seeing Neo enhanced games (that includes a bunch of exclusives) for nearly a year by the time the Scorpio comes out. It'll be the "most powerful console ever" by a good margin compared to its competition during this year.
So when the Scorpio launches, will the wow factor really be there? Do people really go wow when they see the differences between an average xbox one and ps4 version of the same game?
This whole launching a year ahead thing is actually a pretty big deal when you think about it.
Baron Doggystyle von Woof
Member
PC+Nintendo.
Patches for existing ones may grant your wish, but your dream is likely to stay a dream for new titles. On most titles developers have shown that they'd prefer to add more detail, more draw distance, more effects over a higher frame rate. That won't change with the new consoles as many have pointed out. Of course there are genres and specific games that are exceptions, but open world titles have generally focused on more scope and more detail over "twitch" gaming where 60fps is strictly necessary.
Spending twice as much time rendering a frame produces better screen shots to promote your game with. That's an extremely powerful incentive.