Support NeoGAF

[AnGer]

The world would be a much better place if Twitter, Facebook and other social media moderated its content like neogaf does.

I agree with that, however, since these sites/services cannot be held responsible by law for the actions of their users - though I believe that has been reevaluated in some places - and they even seem to make profit off of it, it won't happen unless there's external pressure. And starting with the German ban on hate speech, there's now a precedent to go forth, though this will take a lot of time since various countries have various stances on the matter.

And in some places, they'd prefer to fuck over the internet entirely. *cough*EU*cough*

 

[TheFinalCut]

WikiLeaks got in a short war of words with Jack on twitter over the banning of Milo. Palmer Luckey apparently takes their side (liking their comment) in the banning of one of the site's biggest propagators of hate. I'm really disappointed.

 

[Silver Arrows]

WikiLeaks got in a short war of words with Jack on twitter over the banning of Milo. Palmer Luckey apparently takes their side (liking their comment) in the banning of one of the site's biggest propagators of hate. I'm really disappointed.

Palmer is a Milo supporter and a terrible PR person, what else is new.

 

[Already Torn]

WikiLeaks got in a short war of words with Jack on twitter over the banning of Milo. Palmer Luckey apparently takes their side (liking their comment) in the banning of one of the site's biggest propagators of hate. I'm really disappointed.

Isn't Palmer Luckey some dumb socially awkward teenager? He's in Milo's target demographic.

 

[Pedrito]

WikiLeaks got in a short war of words with Jack on twitter over the banning of Milo. Palmer Luckey apparently takes their side (liking their comment) in the banning of one of the site's biggest propagators of hate. I'm really disappointed.

Wikileaks should really STFU and just leak stuff. It's really hard to take themselves seriously when they get involved in these things and show they have an agenda. They even lost their shit when the ukranian singer won Eurovision over the russian entry.

 

[Suite Pee]

https://medium.com/welcome-to-the-scream-room/im-with-the-banned-8d1b6e0b2932#.po2eft12d

Then it’s Milo’s turn.

His speech is cabaret from start to finish. He sashays up to the podium and strips off his bulletproof vest, giddy with the attention, and announces that he’s been banned from Twitter. The news draws cheers from the assembled Gamergate goons whose masculinity is so fragile that they believe the new Ghostbusters film to be an active identity threat.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Saw this on Danny from Gamespot's Twitter and it's an absolutely amazing read. Equal parts terrifying and hilarious depending on how you look at it.

Also explains why there's sometimes so much handwringing over how to 'approach' Milo even before this stuff when he's literally a character performer rather than a sincere lunatic. Even other right wing types like Roosh that get way less exposure can't compete when they genuinely believe what they spew; they're not fully grasping how they're supposed to play this game. It does make me wonder if Gamergate was ultimately a minor aspect to his rise in popularity though.

Trump winning or losing probably isn't going to kill this brand of political discourse, but post-election it'll hopefully things will finally quiet down. Emphasis on hope.

EDIT: Beaten by a minute, hah. Still, the entire thing reminds me of that Ann Coulter episode of The Boondocks where it turns out it's all just an act she playing and she's semi-normal backstage after calling Riley a 'thug' on TV. For me the ultimate issue with these types even when they're just playing a bit is they're almost always targeting someone who can't fight back and doesn't deserve it, and that's obviously deliberate.

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

I'm surprised that WikiLeaks has apparently taken his side. I'm also shocked at how greatly they seem to have misunderstood what happened here.

And lol at this cyber feudalism shit twitter is a private platform they can ban whoever they want.

 

[explodet]

https://medium.com/welcome-to-the-scream-room/im-with-the-banned-8d1b6e0b2932#.po2eft12d

I run into a British writer from the Spectator, a moderate right-wing magazine, who takes the opportunity to apologise for being mean to me on the internet. He thought that was just how you’re supposed to do Twitter.

HAHAHAHAHA
I legitimately love this.

 

[The Technomancer]

I'm surprised that WikiLeaks has apparently taken his side.

I'm not

 

[diablos991]

I'm surprised that WikiLeaks has apparently taken his side. I'm also shocked at how greatly they seem to have misunderstood what happened here.

And lol at this cyber feudalism shit twitter is a private platform they can ban whoever they want.

I'm pretty excited for an alternative to Twitter to be honest.
Twitter is getting worse by the day.

 

[jstripes]

Wait wait, bodyguards?

I thought death threats were "just how the internet is." That people who get them just need to grow a thicker skin.

 

[Messofanego]

Saw this on Danny from Gamespot's Twitter and it's an absolutely amazing read. Equal parts terrifying and hilarious depending on how you look at it.

Also explains why there's sometimes so much handwringing over how to 'approach' Milo even before this stuff when he's literally a character performer rather than a sincere lunatic. Even other right wing types like Roosh that get way less exposure can't compete when they genuinely believe what they spew; they're not fully grasping how they're supposed to play this game. It does make me wonder if Gamergate was ultimately a minor aspect to his rise in popularity though.

Trump winning or losing probably isn't going to kill this brand of political discourse, but post-election it'll hopefully things will finally quiet down. Emphasis on hope.

EDIT: Beaten by a minute, hah. Still, the entire thing reminds me of that Ann Coulter episode of The Boondocks where it turns out it's all just an act she playing and she's semi-normal backstage after calling Riley a 'thug' on TV. For me the ultimate issue with these types even when they're just playing a bit is they're almost always targeting someone who can't fight back and doesn't deserve it, and that's obviously deliberate.

Milo was obviously jumping on the bandwagon when gamergate came along. Dude hated videogame players before it. But it was a movement that had antifeminism and hating identity politics and diversity, so that fit right into his agenda.

I love that Roosh is written as an actual crazy person who has no PR on how to play the shock jock game. He genuinely believes in his heinous shit.

 

[Platy]

He being a Character Performer only make it worst in my opinion

 

[Toxi]

I'm surprised that WikiLeaks has apparently taken his side. I'm also shocked at how greatly they seem to have misunderstood what happened here.

And lol at this cyber feudalism shit twitter is a private platform they can ban whoever they want.

Oh, there's no misunderstanding. They're just dicks.

 

[Nokterian]

I'm surprised that WikiLeaks has apparently taken his side. I'm also shocked at how greatly they seem to have misunderstood what happened here.

And lol at this cyber feudalism shit twitter is a private platform they can ban whoever they want.

I was shocked when that went trough my timeline even anonymous tweeted..ehm you are in the wrong here. Was also reading that wikileaks compared this to a genocide from the 1930's of the great purge what stalin did..this is insane.

A shame that wikileaks not even goes beyond searching what is really happening and now supporting racism and harassment.

 

[Toxi]

I find it hilarious seeing people die on a hill for this piece of shit being banned from a privately owned website because he broke the rules.

 

[besada]

I'm pretty excited for an alternative to Twitter to be honest.
Twitter is getting worse by the day.

People were excited for a Reddit alternative and they got voat. Like voat, any service with LESS moderation is likely to turn into a haven for racists, homophobes, anti-semites, and general shitheads. Go ahead, wikileaks, start a new twitter. Corral the shittiest people on the internet in one place where it's easier to ignore them.

 

[Brakke]

Wikileaks have always been a trash organization even tho they happened to do some things that were good.

 

[kirblar]

I'm not

I for one, am utterly shocked, SHOCKED that an organization that's treated sensitive, complex issues with a one-note dogmatic approach that doesn't care about collateral damage would act in such a way!

 

[GoodCoffeeJoey]

This seems to be getting a lot of coverage on the mainstream press for some reason. My mom asked me 'why this guy was going after Leslie Jones?' She seemed to think Milo was some kind of absurdist joke character and described as 'a gay Brit who supports Donolf Trump.' I had to give her a basic synopsis on the Ghostbusters backlash, Twitter brigading/harassment, and the alt-right. I wasn't expecting to be talking about this crap with fucking normies.

 

[FyreWulff]

I'm surprised that WikiLeaks has apparently taken his side. I'm also shocked at how greatly they seem to have misunderstood what happened here.

And lol at this cyber feudalism shit twitter is a private platform they can ban whoever they want.

For all the work they do shining light on goverments doing shady stuff, Wikileaks always shows their ass when they try to inject themselves at the personal level.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

I'm surprised that WikiLeaks has apparently taken his side. I'm also shocked at how greatly they seem to have misunderstood what happened here.

And lol at this cyber feudalism shit twitter is a private platform they can ban whoever they want.

It's fucking infuriating how many people like to feign ignorance about TOS on discussion sites.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Saw this on Danny from Gamespot's Twitter and it's an absolutely amazing read. Equal parts terrifying and hilarious depending on how you look at it.

With these sorts of articles I'm always disappointed when it turns into lampooning the supporters as human failures, or talking about male tears or fragile masculinity. Turn it around and people would rightfully understand that it's bullshit argumentation that focuses on a caricature of the opposition, rather than argument from reason. If we're upset about professional trolls like Milo and the like making life shitty for people online because they can, I don't feel the need to support left-wing trolls either and buy some "I drink male tears" mugs. Turning everyone into broken man children in your worldview or sociopaths cheapens the fact that no, it's not just dumb crazy people that buy this stuff.

 

[diaspora]

People were excited for a Reddit alternative and they got voat. Like voat, any service with LESS moderation is likely to turn into a haven for racists, homophobes, anti-semites, and general shitheads. Go ahead, wikileaks, start a new twitter. Corral the shittiest people on the internet in one place where it's easier to ignore them.

IIRC, this is why /pol/ was created, to corral shitty opinions to one place if they didn't go to 8ch.

 

[collige]

IIRC, this is why /pol/ was created, to corral shitty opinions to one place if they didn't go to 8ch.

/pol/ predates 8chan by several years.It was created to replace the recently deleted news board.

 

[Sushi Nao]

With these sorts of articles I'm always disappointed when it turns into lampooning the supporters as human failures, or talking about male tears or fragile masculinity. Turn it around and people would rightfully understand that it's bullshit argumentation that focuses on a caricature of the opposition, rather than argument from reason. If we're upset about professional trolls like Milo and the like making life shitty for people online because they can, I don't feel the need to support left-wing trolls either and buy some "I drink male tears" mugs. Turning everyone into broken man children in your worldview or sociopaths cheapens the fact that no, it's not just dumb crazy people that buy this stuff.

Hey, maybe you don't mean this, but it's reading like you think harassment victims should be nicer to their harassers, and that doxxing and mass threats are comparable to calling out legitimately toxic masculinity.

There's no comparison between the groups.

 

[EatChildren]

ＣＹＢＥＲ  ＦＥＵＤＡＬＩＳＭ

 

[Darryl M R]

This guy is really a nobody. Outside of small online communities no one mentions him. He is just another empty vessel that spews hate. He will be replaced and the cycle will continue.

 

[aeolist]

Isn't Palmer Luckey some dumb socially awkward teenager? He's in Milo's target demographic.

tech entrepreneurs tend to be libertarians with absolutist attitudes about free speech

it's one reason why twitter is the way it is

 

[LiK]

I'm surprised that WikiLeaks has apparently taken his side. I'm also shocked at how greatly they seem to have misunderstood what happened here.

And lol at this cyber feudalism shit twitter is a private platform they can ban whoever they want.

Why do they constantly mention he's gay? Being gay doesn't make you immune to being a jerk. And just because he's gay doesn't mean everyone who is should support that jackass. Supporting harassment of any kind is fucked up.

 

[War Peaceman]

'speaking the wrong way'

I'm going to use that as a defence in the future

 

[FyreWulff]

People were excited for a Reddit alternative and they got voat. Like voat, any service with LESS moderation is likely to turn into a haven for racists, homophobes, anti-semites, and general shitheads. Go ahead, wikileaks, start a new twitter. Corral the shittiest people on the internet in one place where it's easier to ignore them.

My favorite part about the whole creation of voat is that they were all "we'll have the free-est of speeches!" with some bonus "we're not hosted in the US!"

Then they realized running a Reddit clone takes money, so they incorporated Voat in the United States, host it there now, and started taking down subvoast to appease their investors and potential advertisers.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Hey, maybe you don't mean this, but it's reading like you think harassment victims should be nicer to their harassers, and that doxxing and mass threats are comparable to calling out legitimately toxic masculinity.

There's no comparison between the groups.

I'm saying that you should call out shitty behavior no matter who does it, but that turning it into an attack against the person themselves is a shit move that does nothing but feed your own sense of moral righteousness.

"There is no comparison to the groups" is a copout way of saying "well this is my side, and they are allowed to do whatever they want because they're right, while the other side is bad when they do the same things because I don't agree with them." I don't doubt that most of the intense harassment and brigading has been done by Milo and his right-wing cronies. But I don't believe in giving my side a pass to act as shitty as them if we're serious about ending harassment and elevating discourse.

 

[Valhelm]

I'm surprised that WikiLeaks has apparently taken his side. I'm also shocked at how greatly they seem to have misunderstood what happened here.

Assange still runs it, doesn't he?

 

[aeolist]

I'm saying that you should call out shitty behavior no matter who does it, but that turning it into an attack against the person themselves is a shit move that does nothing but feed your own sense of moral righteousness.

"There is no comparison to the groups" is a copout way of saying "well this is my side, and they are allowed to do whatever they want because they're right, while the other side is bad when they do the same things because I don't agree with them." I don't doubt that most of the intense harassment and brigading has been done by Milo and his right-wing cronies. But I don't believe in giving my side a pass to act as shitty as them if we're serious about ending harassment and elevating discourse.

again, it sounds like you're equating smug and catty behavior with emotional abuse and harassment. laughing about male tears is not anywhere near as bad as the things milo and his ilk do.

 

[Goodstyle]

I'm not

Same. Wikileaks is garbage and has always been garbage. Probably run by people who think what Milo did was hilarious.

I'm pretty excited for an alternative to Twitter to be honest.
Twitter is getting worse by the day.

"Alt" Twitter is just going to be a haven for racist and sexist trolls. I hope you aren't excited by that prospect.

 

[PopeReal]

I'm saying that you should call out shitty behavior no matter who does it, but that turning it into an attack against the person themselves is a shit move that does nothing but feed your own sense of moral righteousness.

"There is no comparison to the groups" is a copout way of saying "well this is my side, and they are allowed to do whatever they want because they're right, while the other side is bad when they do the same things because I don't agree with them." I don't doubt that most of the intense harassment and brigading has been done by Milo and his right-wing cronies. But I don't believe in giving my side a pass to act as shitty as them if we're serious about ending harassment and elevating discourse.

What sides are you referring to when you say "my side"? I am just confused, my ice tea hasn't kicked in yet.

 

[Zaph]

One thing I do 'dislike' about the banning of Milo Yiannopoulos, is that it feels like Twitter is using it as a distraction to take some of the heat off them.

Twitter hires some of the best engineers in the world - I refuse to believe they cannot build an algorithm to detect when someone is being brigaded by a barrage of hate speech. Even when that speech is hidden in images and memes, there has to be a way of analysing the types of users it's coming from (new accounts, few followers, never interacted with the target etc), and temporarily suspend activity until it's checked by a person.

 

[Gattsu25]

I'm pretty excited for an alternative to Twitter to be honest.
Twitter is getting worse by the day.

People were excited for a Reddit alternative and they got voat. Like voat, any service with LESS moderation is likely to turn into a haven for racists, homophobes, anti-semites, and general shitheads. Go ahead, wikileaks, start a new twitter. Corral the shittiest people on the internet in one place where it's easier to ignore them.

Truth. The successor to Twitter will need to come up naturally (myspace -> facebook).

Any forced change is going to result in an even more abhorrent service (4chan -> 8chan, reddit -> voat).

 

[Sushi Nao]

I'm saying that you should call out shitty behavior no matter who does it, but that turning it into an attack against the person themselves is a shit move that does nothing but feed your own sense of moral righteousness.

"There is no comparison to the groups" is a copout way of saying "well this is my side, and they are allowed to do whatever they want because they're right, while the other side is bad when they do the same things because I don't agree with them." I don't doubt that most of the intense harassment and brigading has been done by Milo and his right-wing cronies. But I don't believe in giving my side a pass to act as shitty as them if we're serious about ending harassment and elevating discourse.

I get the spirit of what you're saying, but like, Milo's never had to move out of his house cause he thinks he might be raped to death

 

[Fuchsdh]

What sides are you referring to when you say "my side"? I am just confused, my ice tea hasn't kicked in yet.

I am socially liberal. I think we still have a ways to go in providing every person a fair opportunity without their race or gender holding them down. I think it's bullshit that these people are more likely to get trolled and harassed. I'm probably more pro-free-speech than most on GAF, but Twitter is a private platform that gets to set their own rules, and by my estimation there was plenty of evidence Milo had broken Twitter's weak ToS a long time ago, so I'm surprised it took them this long.

If you're going to hold the moral high ground, though, the onus is on you not to be the hypocrite. If you want to stop abuse, the onus is on you to make sure you're not participating in the same behavior that's the problem. "Well the right is doing it more! The right is doing it worse!" may be entirely true, but its a morally bankrupt excuse. I'd be pissed as hell if some commentator started calling out feminist activists women who just couldn't get laid and needed a dick to set them straight, and the Medium article is the moral equivalent of it.

 

[Gattsu25]

I am socially liberal. I think we still have a ways to go in providing every person a fair opportunity without their race or gender holding them down. I think it's bullshit that these people are more likely to get trolled and harassed. I'm probably more pro-free-speech than most on GAF, but Twitter is a private platform that gets to set their own rules, and by my estimation there was plenty of evidence Milo had broken Twitter's weak ToS a long time ago, so I'm surprised it took them this long.

If you're going to hold the moral high ground, though, the onus is on you not to be the hypocrite. If you want to stop abuse, the onus is on you to make sure you're not participating in the same behavior that's the problem. "Well the right is doing it more! The right is doing it worse!" may be entirely true, but its a morally bankrupt excuse. I'd be pissed as hell if some commentator started calling out feminist activists women who just couldn't get laid and needed a dick to set them straight, and the Medium article is the moral equivalent of it.

Is it? I didn't find anything even remotely close to this level of shock jockery in the medium article:

"I don't think lesbians are a real thing. At least, there's only a tiny number of women who are actual lesbians. The rest are just lonely, or unhappy, or bitter, or reeling from a bad relationship. They always go back to men in the end. Sex with no penis involved isn't sex--it's a cry for help." -Milo​

 

[collige]

I am socially liberal. I think we still have a ways to go in providing every person a fair opportunity without their race or gender holding them down. I think it's bullshit that these people are more likely to get trolled and harassed. I'm probably more pro-free-speech than most on GAF, but Twitter is a private platform that gets to set their own rules, and by my estimation there was plenty of evidence Milo had broken Twitter's weak ToS a long time ago, so I'm surprised it took them this long.

If you're going to hold the moral high ground, though, the onus is on you not to be the hypocrite. If you want to stop abuse, the onus is on you to make sure you're not participating in the same behavior that's the problem. "Well the right is doing it more! The right is doing it worse!" may be entirely true, but its a morally bankrupt excuse. I'd be pissed as hell if some commentator started calling out feminist activists women who just couldn't get laid and needed a dick to set them straight, and the Medium article is the moral equivalent of it.

I agree with the idea of what you're saying but what specifically in that medium article does that? It's mostly one person's recounting of their impressions and interactions with specific individuals. The only thing that could be taken as a ad hominem for an entire group is "The news draws cheers from the assembled Gamergate goons whose masculinity is so fragile that they believe the new Ghostbusters film to be an active identity threat" which is hardly a scathing insult.

 

[Darryl M R]

People want an alternative to Twitter because they are tired of hearing the opposing "hive mind" and rather just discuss topics with people that won't disagree with them?


Ah that makes sense.

 

[FStop7]

Wait, Palmer Luckey is down with alt right clowns? Is this confirmed by Luckey?

 

[aeolist]

People want an alternative to Twitter because they are tired of hearing the opposing "hive mind" and rather just discuss topics with people that won't disagree with them?


Ah that makes sense.

your statement is a ridiculous strawman

people want an alternative to twitter because that platform is financially incentivized to enable abuse and look the other way while it happens

 

[Onemic]

Wait, Palmer Luckey is down with alt right clowns? Is this confirmed by Luckey?

Not surprised tbh.

 

[Darryl M R]

your statement is a ridiculous strawman

people want an alternative to twitter because that platform is financially incentivized to enable abuse and look the other way while it happens

Your post sounds like a client deliverable with a bunch of jargon.

Clear up two points:
Explain how Twiiter enables abuse
Explains the financial incentives behind their actions

 

[Fuchsdh]

I agree with the idea of what you're saying but what specifically in that medium article does that? It's mostly one person's recounting of their impressions and interactions with specific individuals. The only thing that could be taken as a ad hominem for an entire group is "The news draws cheers from the assembled Gamergate goons whose masculinity is so fragile that they believe the new Ghostbusters film to be an active identity threat" which is hardly a scathing insult.

Calling Pamela Geller soulless, Twinks for Trump brainless, the fact that she never actually engages with any of Milo's points, worthless and factually wrong though they may be. It's a piece about feeling, rather than facts, and that leads me to wonder what's the point of the article except for confirming people's biases that Milo is the antichrist.

This feeling isn't just about the Medium article, so I guess I should apologize for lumping it all on them; aside from the diversion of Pokemon Go I feel like my social media feeds have been filled with this "well we're liberals and smarter than you" smarm rather than articulate policy arguments these days. I don't want to feel good about myself, I want to actually see progress, and I feel like the left has turned to the same kind of feel-good ideologue point-scoring about the American right. Might not be as pernicious, but it doesn't make me feel good. I don't have high expectations of my political enemies, I do of the people who are my political allies.

Your post sounds like a client deliverable with a bunch of jargon.

Clear up two points:
Explain how Twiiter enables abuse
Explains the financial incentives behind their actions

Twitter regularly fails to act on user reports of ToS abuse, and it's generally piss-poor in regards to technical solutions to stemming abuse (preventing tweets from new users, a bunch of other technical measures.) As for the financial incentive, they want eyeballs on ads, and they want user numbers to keep going up.