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You're basing it of cherry picked stats that are only the way they are because it's between conventions. What don't you get about that? The data doesn't take into account what has or hasn't happened yet.
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The Democratic National Convention OT |2016|: The One With the Policy
- Thread starter eBay Huckster
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EatinOlives
Member
If you wanna panic you're welcome to. Not everyone needs to think the sky is falling to feel involved in the process.
Doctoglethorpe
Member
I thought he did try hard and said about as much as he possibly could. He even seemed to try to ease them into it over the course of the speech.
Most of his supporters get it by now. Its over, but we still won more than anyone gave us a chance of. It wasnt a fair game, but its done, and we still made an impact. Whether or not you trust Clinton and the party to actually push the agendas Sanders got brought on, the reality is that its that or trump. Its maybe something or the complete opposite. Only the idiots look at that and see the color green, or continue to feel like protesting and pushing will make any more difference than it already has (which is a lot, yes, but take it or leave it now ffs).
The media will inflate the view of this minorty to continue making a mockery of the Sanders campaign, but that isnt reality either. I dont like Clinton. I dont trust her. I dont like or trust the democratic party institution. I usually abstain from voting because the differences just arent significant enough for me to play the lesser evil game that perpetuates the teo party cycle. But reality check, its more of what we have had the last 8 years, or a literally fascist megalomaniac. Time to put moral high grounds aside for a moment and make sure that sack of trash cant do any more harm than he already is.
Where is that picture of Romney leading Obama when I need it lol?
User 463088
Banned
I have no interest in re-litigating the primaries because, I mean, no one cares anymore, but I agree. This "It was rigged" is never explained outside "It's rigged because Candidate X didn't win."
Bernie and his campaign said (again) today that there was no rigging involved. That they lost, fair and square. Of course, the weren't saying this in May or June, but that's easy enough to ignore since it was at the height of the primary.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/dnc-leak-shows-mechanics-of-a-slanted-campaign-w430814
The Democratic Party going out of their way to assist a particular candidate, especially in fundraising, whilst being obligated to be "neutral"? That sounds "rigged" to me.
eBay Huckster
Member
still waiting on that actual rebuttal on the polling, fam
Okay, so as far as I can tell, you think Hillary's going to lose because of the rigged campaign, even though most Bernie voters support Hillary, and our response should be..."oops, sorry we rigged it?"
Does not seem super actionable to me.
aside from sanders endorsing clinton
and sanders policies making it into the platform
and this being the most progressive platform yet
and the opposition being what it is
what else do you want? do you want hillary chained on stage of the DNC while an indictment is read out loud or something?
User 463088
Banned
I want to address this, because I think it's a very important point.
I've been a member of the Democratic party my entire life (like my dad was before me. Fun fact: First person my dad ever voted for was FDR, and voted Democrat his entire life. He worked in the party, gave money, whatever he could do because he thought the Democratic party was the best chance we had at lasting change, but that's another topic).
There were things that "establishment" Democrats (of which I would consider myself) should have done better in interacting with Bernie Sanders supporters. I think there were a lot of reasons for the breakdown, and fault lies on both sides. We weren't always willing to listen or engage like maybe we should have been...but at the same time, we were constantly being called corrupt, and whores and all kinds of stuff by SOME (read: definitely not all) people. It's unfortunate, but natural, that you kinda dig your heels in a bit.
Part of the issue is that, literally, we're the only sane ones left. Like, I'm not saying all Republican are crazy, but because of the first past the post system we have...it's going to be Democrats or Republicans.
And the GOP is nuts right now.
Because we are the party of inclusion, it's normal that we would maybe argue or debate issues. And I think that's good. It's healthy. So we need to listen and work together to make the party as strong and useful as it can be. This means compromise. That doesn't mean one side gets everything they want, and if they only get 99% well...burn it down. (And I'm not saying that's your argument, I'm speaking in general terms).
whyamihere
Banned
I don't think there's any evidence in the emails that the DNC campaign actually helped with oppo research about Bernie to the Clinton campaign, or that they were somehow funding the Hillary campaign (there's also reason why Victory Funds don't have their money disseminated until the DNC decides what states need the money the most, which has nothing to do with Hillary Clinton).
The worst thing you could say that the DNC did was make a shitty debate schedule, had some people who came up with some terrible idea that were never used, and have almost no one inside the organization who supported Bernie Sanders. But since Bernie was running as an outsider candidate that relished in being anti-establishment, I'm not sure if the last point is very surprising.
The worst thing you could say that the DNC did was make a shitty debate schedule, had some people who came up with some terrible idea that were never used, and have almost no one inside the organization who supported Bernie Sanders. But since Bernie was running as an outsider candidate that relished in being anti-establishment, I'm not sure if the last point is very surprising.
No. It's that the strategy of "vote against Trump" isn't a very good one (and please actually read my case...). It's not inspiring. It doesn't get people off their couch. It could even leave to complacency: "he's such a buffoon that I don't need to vote."
Trump can't get any lower. Really, he can't. He could say that he would be willing to nuke a country and I wouldn't think any different of him. He could say that he'd prevent Muslims from holding US political offices and I wouldn't flinch. I already hate him as much as I can.
People have already made up their minds. He has dominated the media for the past full year. So if the Democratic strategy is really to beat the "Trump sucks" drum for months and months and months, I think they'll lose. They won't be bringing anything new to light or changing any voter's minds by saying "Trump sucks."
Hillary's victory will depend on stressing how she's going to better people's lives, and why those improvements are more likely to be more impactful than Donald Trump. Perhaps more importantly, it'll depend on people believing her and her case for America.
I learned just yesterday about her proposed Amendment to overturn Citizens United. Beat that drum. Don't beat "Trump sucks."
whyamihere
Banned
Actually, a case both against and for someone, as you saw today during the DNC and probably will see for the rest of the week, is the most effective case to get people to vote, along with a robust GOTV operation.
It seems clear to me from this post that you are not actually watching the DNC or reading any coverage of it.
so your solution is to beat the policy drum. which has been beaten. and beaten. and, well, it's been beaten more than a dead horse. i mean, her opposition to citizen's united isn't even new, and if you're just hearing about it yesterday, then it really seems like policy isn't the main factor at work here for some people.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
The DNC being "against" Bernie is what allowed him to gain popularity. He was pushing the narrative the whole time as an outsider candidate. A guy who has been in the government for 30 years...
I concur. Visually white america and some confused minorities are fine with the racism/sexism/bigotry/etc because it has no ill effects on them. Their world is pretty much the same if trumps in office or not. But people trying to convince bernie or busters or whatever have always been told what the stakes are, but they've been consistently ignored and just mantra repeated to. I'm glad bernie spelled it out, What's at stake.
While trump sucks should be a call to arms, the nation is fine with the bigotry here, or needs more facts before making a choice to help out their neighbors. I feel like outside of america. Trump sucks encompasses all of his vitriol toward others, as well as the gops plans to erode progress. But here, you really have to spell it out, and then some.
It shouldn't have to be spelled out. But it has to be. People just stop at trump sucks, and go no further into what it means.
eBay Huckster
Member
Literally the entire unifying theme of every speech I heard in six hours today was a meshing together of a positive case based on policy positions for electing Clinton and downballot Dems with a negative case against electing Trump (and by extension, downballot Republicans).
I'm not entirely sure what speeches you were watching if that was not abundantly clear.
I'm not entirely sure what speeches you were watching if that was not abundantly clear.
titiklabingapat
Member
Is this your first Presidential election?
Why is this an either or thing?
Obama won on hope but he also used the "no more Bush" argument pretty damn heavily to paint McCain in a scary light.
Hate to say it but fear is a motivator. We like to think we are above it and that people we think higher of won't respond to it, but many do.
I would argue it is a balancing act. Too much in any one direction could be counter productive. And how to balance it and other triggers depends on the candidate and the context.
Man that /r/sandersforpresident meltdown is amazing.
And sad as well. These people have been brainwashed to the point that Bernie could beat the shit out of them and tell them "DON'T VOTE FOR ME YOU IDIOT, VOTE FOR HILLARY" and they'll just look at him and say "We'll continue the fight for you Bernie!"
Notice how most of them are white people as well. They know they have nothing to lose if Trump wins.
And sad as well. These people have been brainwashed to the point that Bernie could beat the shit out of them and tell them "DON'T VOTE FOR ME YOU IDIOT, VOTE FOR HILLARY" and they'll just look at him and say "We'll continue the fight for you Bernie!"
Notice how most of them are white people as well. They know they have nothing to lose if Trump wins.
Quote
Member
they need a balance of both trump sucks and policy, which they're doing
It's like they're so used to using "but benghazi" as an instant win to any conversation. Dude looks appalled that someone actually offered a rebuttal
Fuck these people.
They are as bad as Trump cultists. It's hard to even say their hearts are in the right place because thats questionable at best.
Which is a disgrace because I have a lot of respect for Bernie and what he accomplished. I have respected him for over a decade. Listening to his Brunch with Bernie on the Thom Hartmann radio program every week(the only part of that show I could stomach after my young liberal phase).
If you believe in the platform of Bernie and what his original goals were, this is not the way.
User 463088
Banned
Of the three main primetime speeches:
One was an attack speech (Warren)
One was an inspirational message (Michelle)
One was a mostly policy speech (Bernie)
Bernie talked about the platform nearly the entire time. You know...the thing that is full of the positions of the party. Like overturning Citizens United (something Hillary has promised to do since she started her campaign FYI), increasing the minimum wage, adding the public option, negotiating with drug companies to lower drug costs, and a ton of other issues.
One speaker talked about Hillary's commitment to disability rights
Another (a young girl and her mother) spoke about Hillary's quest to pass comprehensive immigration reform.
Like there was policy all up in that convention.
One was an attack speech (Warren)
One was an inspirational message (Michelle)
One was a mostly policy speech (Bernie)
Bernie talked about the platform nearly the entire time. You know...the thing that is full of the positions of the party. Like overturning Citizens United (something Hillary has promised to do since she started her campaign FYI), increasing the minimum wage, adding the public option, negotiating with drug companies to lower drug costs, and a ton of other issues.
One speaker talked about Hillary's commitment to disability rights
Another (a young girl and her mother) spoke about Hillary's quest to pass comprehensive immigration reform.
Like there was policy all up in that convention.
this is my little brothers, they are coming around though slowly. They understand the stakes. Just a tough pill for them to swallow.
Democrats always talk about policy because Democrats win on policy. Just because someone on the internet said there was no policy talk doesn't make it true.
It was a great day 1 for the democratic party. The Bernie or Bust stuff was present but not overwhelming. It wasn't chaos. And Bernie or Bust folks should recognize the actual policies Hillary and the democratic platform have put forward as Bernie talked about.
It was a great day 1 for the democratic party. The Bernie or Bust stuff was present but not overwhelming. It wasn't chaos. And Bernie or Bust folks should recognize the actual policies Hillary and the democratic platform have put forward as Bernie talked about.
...hopefully.
My friends on Facebook keep insisting that he's going to usurp all the super delegates tomorrow and clinch the nomination.
Then I try to explain to them what the platform actually is and the effect he's had on it, and they just put their fingers in their ears.
hydragonwarrior
Member
So does the DNC e-mail release have anything damaging to Hillary or getting votes in for her? That Nate Silver article is pretty fucking scary (how Trump would win right now).
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
Apparently there is more to come and Assange promised indictment level emails or something
ok. i'll move my goal posts from "it'll be over after sanders speech" to "it'll be over after the votes today"
oh boy
eBay Huckster
Member
there's approximately a 99.9999% chance that assange is bluffing on there being anything "indictment-level" given that even the FBI couldn't find anything
I feel like this election has been an indictment of this countries piss poor education system when it comes to Civics.
Both parties just have far too many people that just make me shake my head to the point I have to imagine anyone that could see me would run to my aid thinking I am having a seizure.
The libertarian trying to help the authoritarian...You would get laughed out the room trying to sell that script if it weren't reality.
What the fbi can't do the kgb can.
eBay Huckster
Member
the kgb couldn't win the cold war. qed
For people in their very young 20s it will never be over until halfway through Clinton's first term when they've forgotten what they were on about in the first place. But that's why no one cares about under 30s when it comes to procuring votes
EatinOlives
Member
They released some of that "more to come" earlier today. I wouldn't blame you or anyone else if they forgot about it, considering it was fuckingnothing.gif.
It's safe to say their fifteen minutes of fame have passed. From now on it's just gonna be glorified arm flailing.
whyamihere
Banned
Would you, uh, releasing the most damning stuff first in order to do the most damage to the Clinton campaign?
Maybe they'll make fake emails or something, but if they had something that could actually ruin the Hillary campaign, they would've released it now. By October/November, it'll be too late.
Maybe they'll make fake emails or something, but if they had something that could actually ruin the Hillary campaign, they would've released it now. By October/November, it'll be too late.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
I thought it was yet to be released, but I'm not looking at wiki leaks with bated breath either
October is when you want to do it mang. The ol' October Surprise. They don't have anything more because people like them have no restraint
Well wouldn't you release the most damning stuff the day of her speech? That way her speech is drowned out by some bombshell.
whyamihere
Banned
Yeah, but the October Surprise doesn't really work when you're trying to dissuade liberals from voting for Clinton who have already moved over to her camp. You'd do maximum damage trying to make sure there never is any unity.
Assange and Wikileaks are pretty much the definition of over promising and under delivering
You're right, I looked up the Swift Boat and they formed in may 2004, but ran the first ad literally the week AFTER the DNC 04. Man that was a pro organization
darkwing-buck
Member
I know everyone is still riding high off that Michelle speech but the speech by Cory Booker was still a fireball in it's own right.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGUtSY3FqPo
So much passion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGUtSY3FqPo
So much passion.
There is no October Surprise. There never has been but the right always threatens one. Remember the tape of Michelle Obama saying "whitey" or something? The proof that Barack Obama is a Muslim? The evidence that shows Hillary personally killed people in Benghazi? None of it exists but the right believes all of it exists.
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