CNN/ORC Poll: Trump 44%, Clinton 39%, Johnson 9%, Stein 3%

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Ninja Scooter said:
Thankfully 14 year olds can't vote so we don't have to worry about you contributing to a potential Trump victory.
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An apppropriate answer.

(But yeah, it'd be interesting to explore the alternative as some sort of experiment. Like if he could win, and then immediately get disqualified or something.)
 
Dr. Feel Good said:
I mean the negative outcomes obviously outweigh the amusement however part of me is incredibly interested in the psychological analysis of how all of this happened. It's literally changing the course of the world in a dramatic way. A Hilary win is pretty much status quo.
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The status quo is bad now, or Trump offers a better alternative? Give me a break.
 
trembli0s said:
What's absolutely stunning to me is how much cash the Clinton campaign has already burned through and how it essentially has had 0 real effect on the campaign so far.

We're talking 40-to-1 margins in battlefield states. And yet Trump is still holding ground, or even gaining, in some of those places.

If the Republican money men seriously see an opportunity here to just eviscerate Hillary this could get pretty dicey.
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It takes much more to persuade people that you have ties with Lucifer otherwise; specially if they want to put you into prison too.
 
mike6467 said:
You're making the assumption all BoB people are beyond reach. If that's the case then it does no good to belittle them and call them names unless you're just stroking your own ego. I doubt that's the case however (based entirely on my personal friends, there's plenty of pro Bernie democrats pissed about the primary but still on the fence). So assuming those people exist, all you're doing is further isolating them.

I understand the binary 1 or 0 thinking here, but there's still a lot of people who can be swayed, and while insulting them may make you feel better, it's not going to bring in the votes against Trump, which should be the primary concern right now. Communicate facts and empirical data, maybe you turn 5%, but insulting people and calling them names will bring in 0%.
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If you voted for Bernie, how is it even possible you would vote for Trump? Honestly, that shit doesn't even compute and I say that as someone who voted for Bernie.
 
Geo said:
the superpredator, bring them to heel, etc. racist garbage killed it for me

plus suddenly becoming the LGBT queen! when she was against gay marriage for so long

whatever, I'm still going to vote for her because #nevertrump
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Obama was also against gay marriage until his presidency was underway.

Not to sound unsympathetic to the LGBT rights movement, but if we're going to limit our choices of president to people who are pro-gay now but haven't been their whole lives, we're going to have a pretty shallow pool of candidates to pick from. Thankfully, that pool will get deeper and deeper as time goes on.

Arrogant Bastard said:
If you voted for Bernie, how is it even possible you would vote for Trump? Honestly, that shit doesn't even compute and I say that as someone who voted for Bernie.
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It exposes how many people were voting for Bernie not because of his ideals or policy platform, but because of his personality and general anti-establishment tone. It's easier to transplant your choice of president from Bernie to Trump if your only big criterion for the job was "FUCK THE SYSTEM."
 
Dr. Feel Good said:
I mean the negative outcomes obviously outweigh the amusement however part of me is incredibly interested in the psychological analysis of how all of this happened. It's literally changing the course of the world in a dramatic way. A Hilary win is pretty much status quo.
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I'm not interested in experimenting with people's lives and well being that would come from empowering white supremacists and homophobes and undoing what little progress America has made already in those areas.
 
Erevador said:
Lot of panicked vitriol in this thread. Perhaps you all should spend more time convincing other voters of your candidate's quality, and less time denigrating those voters for their demographic characteristics and calling them selfish. Shockingly, those are tactics that don't prove very effective.
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Those focused on ideology instead of policy and pragmatism are extremely rigid in their beliefs .

I admire passion in politics, but some people but have to realize that governance is very boring and mundane. And hard-line ideology doesn't bring much to the table.
 
fluffydelusions said:
SilentWickedInexpectatumpleco-size_restricted.gif
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LOL
 
Blader said:
It exposes how many people were voting for Bernie not because of his ideals or policy platform, but because of his personality and general anti-establishment tone. It's easier to transplant your choice of president from Bernie to Trump if your only big criterion for the job was "FUCK THE SYSTEM."
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Agreed, but from what I'm seeing, Bernie got people interested in the system, they got riled up. They have a vote and they're now motivated enough to use it, we can inform them. If you straight up write them off it only reinforces their behavior, like I said, a small percentage of them may listen, but a lot of people who weren't thinking about this before are now. We need to be smart about it, straight up divisiveness and vitriol does nobody any good, especially when there are people on the fence (seriously, you may not know them, but they exist).
 
Blader said:
Obama was also against gay marriage until his presidency was underway.

Not to sound unsympathetic to the LGBT rights movement, but if we're going to limit our choices of president to people who are pro-gay now but haven't been their whole lives, we're going to have a pretty shallow pool of candidates to pick from. Thankfully, that pool will get deeper and deeper as time goes on.



It exposes how many people were voting for Bernie not because of his ideals or policy platform, but because of his personality and general anti-establishment tone. It's easier to transplant your choice of president from Bernie to Trump if your only big criterion for the job was "FUCK THE SYSTEM."
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I believe Hillary was much more in tune with gay rights than I see Bernie supporters commonly saying, ever since she was First Lady, just on non-marriage issue (though her only coming around in like the last few years and refusing to admit she ever changed her opinion on it was irritating).

But I wish people here would stop claiming "but if we're going to limit our choices of president to people who are pro-gay now but haven't been their whole lives, we're going to have a pretty shallow pool of candidates to pick from.", I mean I completely agree, and moving past things like that is essentially what I do with former racists, but if you're given a choice between two people and they both believe the same things but one of them had came to that opinion it's perfectly reasonable for someone to choose that guy rather than the newer one.
 
mike6467 said:
Agreed, but from what I'm seeing, Bernie got people interested in the system, they got riled up. They have a vote and they're now motivated enough to use it, we can inform them. If you straight up write them off it only reinforces their behavior, like I said, a small percentage of them may listen, but a lot of people who weren't thinking about this before are now. We need to be smart about it, straight up divisiveness and vitriol does nobody any good, especially when there are people on the fence (seriously, you may not know them, but they exist).
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Are they the ones who are booing and causing the DNC to be a shit show right now?

Trump vs. Clinton, it isn't a difficult choice.
 
After Bernie reels in his supporters this week and hits the campaign trail for Clinton this will be a different ball game

Also Obama will ether Trump in the coming months so I can't wait for that
 
Mr.Sumal said:
After Bernie reels in his supporters this week and hits the campaign trail for Clinton this will be a different ball game

Also Obama will ether Trump in the coming months so I can't wait for that
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They boo'd the shit out of him before as soon as he mentioned clinton, your theory depends on people no longer boo him, Everytime his followers boo the Clinton name that's another sound byte used indefinitely on the media circuit.
 
I remember Bill Maher getting a ton of shit for saying that Americans are stupid, if there was ever any doubt. Not only stupid but half the population sees Trump as some kind of messianic figure who can America to a former glory that never existed.
 
Geo said:
the superpredator, bring them to heel, etc. racist garbage killed it for me

plus suddenly becoming the LGBT queen! when she was against gay marriage for so long

whatever, I'm still going to vote for her because #nevertrump
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By no means do I consider her an LGBT queen. Hell, she's barely come around to trans individuals existing. But she's far preferable on that front compared to the GOP platform.
 
I'll wait until after the convention noise to get worried. But I still think it was a mistake for the DNC to put all their eggs in the Clinton basket. She's not a strong candidate. There's no reason any dem should be struggling against Trump even a little. I actually like Hillary a bit more than Biden on most issues, but I feel like a Biden/Warren ticket would have run away with it in this climate. I wish Obama could run for a third term.

TopDreg said:
Well, Bernie-or-bust people? How does it feel? Do you feel like you're advancing progressive values effectively? Making the country a better place? Do you feel good about yourself?
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Who are you talking to? 90% of Bernie's voters already support Clinton. The 10% who are still holdouts is insignificant enough that I wouldn't think it explains these numbers.
 
gamechanger87 said:
In all honesty, Kaine was a much better choice for President than Hillary was. If she hadn't already put the bag over the DNC's head and told everyone that she was running and they better not or risk her wrath I could have seen him easily winning the primary and the Bernie insurrection would never have had the legs it did.

The RNC made it so that you could have a bunch of candidates enter the primary's because in their mind over time the wacko candidates would fizzle out (Cain/Santorum) and thus the preferred candidate would end up taking the reigns. Unfortunately, this setup allowed too many primary candidates to stick around steal votes from each other keeping Trump in the game until it was too late.

The DNC pretty much made it so that there was one candidate running and it was set far in advance that Hillary would be it. Thus, no other possible candidates would bother running. Bernie was outside the system and had an agenda so he ran and held on longer than they hoped. Bernie was able to run a lot on her negatives. Thus, the DNC is stuck with a candidate that has an incredibly high unfavorable rating that nullifies Trump unfavorables. Trump ran against her and got there because of it. He would have more difficulties latching onto Kaine's negatives.

If Kaine was at the top of the ticket, I think this would be a whole different election. A lot of people underestimate how much people dislike her.
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I agree with all of that. Kaine would have been a shoo-in considering his opponent is Donald. Hillary is laden down with baggage.
 
KingK said:
I'll wait until after the convention noise to get worried. But I still think it was a mistake for the DNC to put all their eggs in the Clinton basket. She's not a strong candidate. There's no reason any dem should be struggling against Trump even a little. I actually like Hillary a bit more than Biden on most issues, but I feel like a Biden/Warren ticket would have run away with it in this climate. I wish Obama could run for a third term.


Who are you talking to? 90% of Bernie's voters already support Clinton. The 10% who are still holdouts is insignificant enough that I wouldn't think it explains these numbers.
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She's still beating him easily. Even on her worst day she has never lost the lead to trump. Trump is the one struggling. Even on his best days especially when he gets a polling bump he can't get past the low fourties overall in the polls. He usually gets a bump and drops a few percentage points again.
 
Blader said:
Obama was also against gay marriage until his presidency was underway.

Not to sound unsympathetic to the LGBT rights movement, but if we're going to limit our choices of president to people who are pro-gay now but haven't been their whole lives, we're going to have a pretty shallow pool of candidates to pick from. Thankfully, that pool will get deeper and deeper as time goes on.
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Not only that, but don't we want people who are willing to change their minds when they are proven wrong? Being stubborn on an opinion is not something I think any progressive should support. How can there be progress if everyone holds onto an outdated way of thinking?

I hope to continue to learn and grow as I age. I don't want to be locked into the same mindset of my 30 year old self. The world is going to change and I want to change with it.

A lot of this thread is trying to convince others the person they are supporting is wrong. How can anyone expect them to change their minds when we demonize people that do just that?
 
this is the only poll that has Trump with a significant bounce, nearly every other poll has Trump +1 or +2 or with simply no bounce at all.

This is an outlier, treat it as such.
 
When the deaf girl talked, I almost wished one of the BoBs would've said something. I'd have taken a bus, waiting for the next day, to break a jaw or two.

I understand their anger, and I understand how irrational they can get about it, but let's be honest, here -- half of them are Ron Paul fanatics, who were backing Rand Paul, and were never involved in the progressive agenda at all. The other half are disillusioned and angry at the establishment and will likely vote third party or not vote at all.

That second half needs to be sat down and talked to about what we're risking by letting Trump have even a sliver of a chance.

This said, I figured the convention would be as big of a shitshow as as the republican one, after the first few minutes.

I was not exactly surprised when it turned out to be wrong.
 
Jombie said:
I remember Bill Maher getting a ton of shit for saying that Americans are stupid, if there was ever any doubt. Not only stupid but half the population sees Trump as some kind of messianic figure who can America to a former glory that never existed.
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George Carlin said the same, all the time. And they're both dead right. This country is sick in the head.
 
clinton up 1 in new NBC poll. can you guys quit whining? hillary is still walking away with this. i wish the predictit market was as fickle as gaf
 
VistraNorrez said:
Not only that, but don't we want people who are willing to change their minds when they are proven wrong? Being stubborn on an opinion is not something I think any progressive should support. How can there be progress if everyone holds onto an outdated way of thinking?

I hope to continue to learn and grow as I age. I don't want to be locked into the same mindset of my 30 year old self. The world is going to change and I want to change with it.

A lot of this thread is trying to convince others the person they are supporting is wrong. How can anyone expect them to change their minds when we demonize people that do just that?
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Great post. A lot of people forget that the government is full of compromise and electing people that are willing to compromise, change their values, or seek alternatives can be a good thing.

Unity and support require both sides to be willing to compromise.

That fact that the Clinton campaign was even willing to alter her policies and listen to what Sanders fought for says a lot. Will she actually do it? Who knows, but at least she was willing to listen. Trump has shown that he only doubles down when people are against him. He doesn't compromise. That can be good in some situations, but a GOOD president should be able to know when to utilize it.
 
Fox_Mulder said:
I'm an european. I don't vote.
And if I was an american I would vote for Clinton.
I only think that if Trump wins the election it would be an amusing situation. So a part of me want it.
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I'm going to assume you're not an adult yet, so your knowledge of politics is near zero, because who the hell think Trump being president would be an "amusing situation"? Being president of the USA is not part of reality tv show, it has serious consequences for the whole world(see Bush actions), and you want a douchebag like Trump in that role?
 
Fox_Mulder said:
I'm an european. I don't vote.
And if I was an american I would vote for Clinton.
I only think that if Trump wins the election it would be an amusing situation. So a part of me want it.
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You should be fucking ashamed of yourself.

How dumb do you have to be to look forward to "CHAOS" when Putin's Russia is literally breathing down our collective european necks and Trump just reiterated his indifference or outright contempt for NATO ?

This is just me being a selfish european. He'd be an utter disaster for the USA as well. There is literally nothing funny or amusing about this scenario.
 
Arrogant Bastard said:
So first POTUS vote? Idealism, is so cute.

So she is going to vote for Trump now?
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Erevador said:
Lot of panicked vitriol in this thread. Perhaps you all should spend more time convincing other voters of your candidate's quality, and less time denigrating those voters for their demographic characteristics and calling them selfish. Shockingly, those are tactics that don't prove very effective.
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The idea that Bernie or Busters are overwhelmingly male or even white was a deliberate lie and narrative planted on the media. This idea has taken root on the forum and still comes up time and time again.

The most common characteristic these people share is that they are young.

Heck even some of the people doing the harassment in Nevada were females.

BernieBro is a lie. Stats just dont support it. Bernie babys would be more accurate hahaha
 
Orniletter said:
You should be fucking ashamed of yourself.

How dumb do you have to be to look forward to "CHAOS" when Putin's Russia is literally breathing down our collective european necks and Trump just reiterated his indifference or outright contempt for NATO ?
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Not to mention Brexit. This shit is certainly not funny. It might have been when the GOP had 20 candidates and nobody in a million years thought America would be stupid enough to elect Trump.

Welp.....
 
Torokil said:
clinton up 1 in new NBC poll. can you guys quit whining? hillary is still walking away with this. i wish the predictit market was as fickle as gaf
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All within the MoE. Clintons biggest concern should not be the day to day swings, but the fact that they are essentially tied. The fact that There is a huge enthusiasm gap combined with the fact that there is literally nothing Trump can do to lose his base of support should be worrisome.

Trump's base is locked in and he won't drop below it, Hillary is just waiting for the next scandal to drop.

Can anyone tell me what situation could happen to Donald to possibly lead to Hilllary running away with the election? On the flip side, think about what can happen to Hillary to do the same. This is what should worry all of the Hillary is ok folks.
 
gamechanger87 said:
All within the MoE. Clintons biggest concern should not be the day to day swings, but the fact that they are essentially tied. The fact that There is a huge enthusiasm gap combined with the fact that there is literally nothing Trump can do to lose his base of support should be worrisome.

Trump's base is locked in and he won't drop below it, Hillary is just waiting for the next scandal to drop.

Can anyone tell me what situation could happen to Donald to possibly lead to Hilllary running away with the election? On the flip side, think about what can happen to Hillary to do the same. This is what should worry all of the Hillary is ok folks.
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I think Trump will also have a harder time convincing the remaining undecided voters to break his way. The recent tightening in the polls is more about Hillary falling than Trump rising. At least according to the Huffington Post tracker, he hasn't been able to surpass 43% support yet. That could change, but I think the margin of error is smaller for Trump.
 
gamechanger87 said:
All within the MoE. Clintons biggest concern should not be the day to day swings, but the fact that they are essentially tied. The fact that There is a huge enthusiasm gap combined with the fact that there is literally nothing Trump can do to lose his base of support should be worrisome.

Trump's base is locked in and he won't drop below it, Hillary is just waiting for the next scandal to drop.

Can anyone tell me what situation could happen to Donald to possibly lead to Hilllary running away with the election? On the flip side, think about what can happen to Hillary to do the same. This is what should worry all of the Hillary is ok folks.
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It could also be said that all the major humps are now likely behind for Clinton, whereas there is still a truckton of skeletons waiting in line in the closet for Trump:

- Trump U lawsuit
- Trump rape accusations (a 3rd one just came out)
- Trump lawsuits that were settled on/ lost, including hiring illegal polish workers
- Trump taxes
- Racially charged behaviors/ business activities (housing/ hiring discrimination...)
- Using bankrupcy/ defaulting on paying contractors and others providers, bullying smaller companies all the way into closing in some cases
- Long history of misoginy, the latest example in defending Roger Ailes from Fox News Corp.

The guy has been involved in more than 4000 lawsuits.

... and now a possible involvement of Russia in the election to favor him

And all that not counting the treasure chest of his public declarations, ranging from pure xenophobia (e.g. the Judge of hispanic decent) to international security insanity (letting Nato allies fend for themselves).
 
gamechanger87 said:
All within the MoE. Clintons biggest concern should not be the day to day swings, but the fact that they are essentially tied. The fact that There is a huge enthusiasm gap combined with the fact that there is literally nothing Trump can do to lose his base of support should be worrisome.

Trump's base is locked in and he won't drop below it, Hillary is just waiting for the next scandal to drop.

Can anyone tell me what situation could happen to Donald to possibly lead to Hilllary running away with the election? On the flip side, think about what can happen to Hillary to do the same. This is what should worry all of the Hillary is ok folks.
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Perhaps a terrorist attack on American soil.
 
Speedy Blue Dude said:
Don't worry. We had faith your country would do the right thing. And you did. You passed Brexit.

Have faith we'll do the right thing. Trump will win with 51% if he needs to. But have faith in us.

We'll not only make "America great again!", we'll "Make the Earth great again."

LETS GO (ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ*:･ﾟ✧ ✧ﾟ･: *ヽ(◕ヮ◕ヽ)
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What a bubble to be in. Or a great parody post.

Which is it?
 
Speedy Blue Dude said:
Don't worry. We had faith your country would do the right thing. And you did. You passed Brexit.

Have faith we'll do the right thing. Trump will win with 51% if he needs to. But have faith in us.

We'll not only make "America great again!", we'll "Make the Earth great again."

LETS GO (ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ*:･ﾟ✧ ✧ﾟ･: *ヽ(◕ヮ◕ヽ)
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How does it feel to hold multiple shitty views?
 
I'm not an american but I'm actually scared. Trump is the kind of person I can see starting a war with China or Russia. Please don't fuck this up guys.

Foffy said:
What a bubble to be in. Or a great parody post.

Which is it?
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I seriously can't tell. I can't.
 
Elandyll said:
It could also be said that all the major humps are now likely behind for Clinton, whereas there is still a truckton of skeletons waiting in line in the closet for Trump:

- Trump U lawsuit
- Trump rape accusations (a 3rd one just came out)
- Trump lawsuits that were settled on/ lost, including hiring illegal polish workers
- Trump taxes
- Racially charged behaviors/ business activities (housing/ hiring discrimination...)
- Using bankrupcy/ defaulting on paying contractors and others providers, bullying smaller companies all the way into closing in some cases
- Long history of misoginy, the latest example in defending Roger Ailes from Fox News Corp.

The guy has been involved in more than 4000 lawsuits.

... and now a possible involvement of Russia in the election to favor him

And all that not counting the treasure chest of his public declarations, ranging from pure xenophobia (e.g. the Judge of hispanic decent) to international security insanity (letting Nato allies fend for themselves).
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You are acting like these things weren't already thrown at him during the Primary. This is all red meat for the people who were never going to vote for him in the first place. It's a laundry list of Democrat touch points that won't stick.

Hillary is much more susceptible to the laundry list of hit points due to the type of campaign she is running. Don't forget Hillary is the best cattle futures trader in history. All Trump is going to do is continually remind everyone why they don't like Hillary.
 
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