Yaphett Kotto
Member
For real. That shit is for the birds.
I just got done playing Sonic 3 and definitely want to play a spiritual successor like Sonic Mania.
Replaying Sonic the Hedgehog reveals it was kind of bad
- Thread starter Cindi Mayweather
- Start date
For real. That shit is for the birds.
I just got done playing Sonic 3 and definitely want to play a spiritual successor like Sonic Mania.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Sonic 3&Knuckles is the pinnacle, followed by Sonic CD.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
LOL at people getting introduced to the idea that maybe people can admit they were wrong about an old game as they get older. It's revisionist history? Opinions change. Sometimes games aren't as good as you remember them.
Metropolis fucking owns to my memory. Hard as balls.
Metropolis fucking owns to my memory. Hard as balls.
burn this down
Banned
Sonic 1 has awful pacing problems. You can blast through Green Hill Zone in about 2 minutes ish. And it's great! Fun, high speed platforming, nice sense of flow, etc. Then that all comes to a grinding halt with Marble Zone. It's slow paced and requires precision platforming, which given the way Sonic handles (a lot of momentum, hard to influence direction once a jump has been made) can be very difficult. It is overall the antithesis of Green Hill. Spring Yard Zone is a step in the right direction, but suffers from its own problems. You can go fast, but as a result you may get pinball'd all over the place, which can get frustrating/hold you up, or be blindsided by awkwardly placed enemies. Labyrinth Zone is everything awful about Marble Zone times 10, thanks to slow underwater movement. It isn't until Starlight Zone where the game regains its sense of speed, and even then the level design can be irritating with tons of bottomless pits and occasionally confusing level layout. The game feels like one set of really great levels designed around the game's physics and controls, and then a ton of basic platforming stuff. Sonic 1 has a lot of problems that keep it from being a great experience.
Sonic 2 and 3&K, on the other hand, are great games that fix a lot of 1's problems. Sonic 2 manages to nail down pacing, with every game in the zone having a solid sense of speed. Sonic 3&K make the levels feel more expansive without breaking up the flow. It has these massive levels with tons of different paths that weave in-and-out of each other, allowing you to switch from path to path easily without bringing the game to a crawl. 2 and 3&K feel like they are design around you going fast, and have levels that are designed in such a way that speed is a reward for fast reflexes and using the environment around you to your advantage.
So yeah, Sonic 1 doesn't really hold up the best. But I don't think you have much to fear with how well 2 and 3&K hold up.
Sonic 2 and 3&K, on the other hand, are great games that fix a lot of 1's problems. Sonic 2 manages to nail down pacing, with every game in the zone having a solid sense of speed. Sonic 3&K make the levels feel more expansive without breaking up the flow. It has these massive levels with tons of different paths that weave in-and-out of each other, allowing you to switch from path to path easily without bringing the game to a crawl. 2 and 3&K feel like they are design around you going fast, and have levels that are designed in such a way that speed is a reward for fast reflexes and using the environment around you to your advantage.
So yeah, Sonic 1 doesn't really hold up the best. But I don't think you have much to fear with how well 2 and 3&K hold up.
Solid SOAP
Member
Yea, I was disappointed when I got it on 3ds about a year ago too 
Sonic 2, 3, and CD still hold up tho
Sonic 2, 3, and CD still hold up thoIf nothing else the OP has forced me to replay through Sonic 1, currently on Springyard Zone, only one particutarly tricky part in Marble Zone and I died twice in Springyard Zone at the beginning thanks to no rings and badniks.
I love Oil Ocean and Metropolis Zone and Wing Fortress.
This thread makes me sad, I await the inevitable Revenge of Shinobi was always bad threads
NinjaCoachZ
Member
Metropolis is cool. I honestly can't think off the top of my head of a level in Sonic 2 I really disliked. I think it's the most well-rounded selection of zones in the original trilogy.
Sonic 3 and Knuckles have higher highs, but there were also a couple I didn't care for so much. Still fantastic though.
I will say though, I think Sonic 2 has the weakest special stages. Those REALLY require memorization. Too often does it feel like you turn a corner and then the mines come from nowhere, with no indication beforehand. Most of the challenge in 1 comes from the fact that you don't have much control over Sonic due to the freefall and the spinning, but they're still pretty nice (and tense). 3 is the best, as its special stages are pure skill. It's no wonder they (technically) made a whole game of it.
Sonic 3 and Knuckles have higher highs, but there were also a couple I didn't care for so much. Still fantastic though.
I will say though, I think Sonic 2 has the weakest special stages. Those REALLY require memorization. Too often does it feel like you turn a corner and then the mines come from nowhere, with no indication beforehand. Most of the challenge in 1 comes from the fact that you don't have much control over Sonic due to the freefall and the spinning, but they're still pretty nice (and tense). 3 is the best, as its special stages are pure skill. It's no wonder they (technically) made a whole game of it.
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
The whiplash going from an open, somewhat threatening but cool tropical valley to a subdued, oppressive dungeon filled with magma doesn't help, but neither does Marble Zone Act 3 being as long and padded out as it is. My favorite part's the option to take two different routes leading to a junction, after which it becomes autoscroller hell. Jumping between lowering platforms and swings is much more fun.
Honestly, Sonic 2 is the pinnacle. I appreciate S3&K for the spectacle that it is, along with actually trying to insert some plot into the game, but Sonic 2 feels like a less complicated, purer form of Sonic.
Sonic 2 is essentially the Sonic franchise before the "Sonic Extended Universe" was born via Knuckles/Master Emeralds/Floating Island/etc.
And Sonic CD is sort of a "what if" situation where we get to see where the franchise might have gone had it not been for Sonic 2. CD is essentially 1 Redux, with time travel and the bullshit that is Wacky Workbench. I love the game to death, but I wouldn't hold it higher than Sonic 2.
Seven Force
Banned
Guess I'll agree to disagree, then. I think Act 1 & 2 are actually kinda okay since it forces a degree of situational awareness that the previous zones didn't necessitate, but Act 3 takes the wind out of it's sails and Sky Chase and Wing Fortress aren't much better.
If this is the part of Marble Zone I'm thinking of, you only have to ride back to the platform right before the jump onto the main path, because the platform gives you enough space to build up a bit of forwards momentum to make the jump.
SonicMegaDrive
Member
I don't think Sonic 1 was meant to be played going at full speed. But you can once you get good at it.
It's a lot like Mario 1. In the original Mario, an expert player can blast through the game never letting off the 'B' button. But if a beginner player (or even a novice) tried to do that, they'd be fried almost instantly. I think a lot of people make the mistake of seeing a Sonic game and assuming it should be played going as fast as possible because, hey, it's Sonic. But in reality, it's played just like any other platformer of it's era.
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
Agreed for the most part. You can actually jump from floating platform to floating platform, leading you back to the left-moving magma block, but it's not intuitive at that point in the game and you never do anything like it ever again. Or, as suggested above, jump to just the nearest platform and then get enough speed to proceed back left. Yasuhara got better at signaling these kinds of tactics/opportunities to players in 2/3 & Knuckles.
AquaticSquirrel
Member
Uh-Huh... how old are you? No dodging please.
Yaphett Kotto
Member
Next people are going to tell me how Sonic 4 was a good game. 😪😪😪
Paul_Str337
Member
I've played a lot of Sonic 1 recently because my three year old daughter can finish the first act of Green Hill Zone herself with no help then likes to watch me do the "hard bits"... so the rest of the game. It honestly holds up better than I thought it would for being the first in the series. It has a lot of pure platforming that would be streamlined in the sequels when they realised maybe they didn't need you to jump over lava on swinging bridges 50 times and instead they could shoot you down a hill reallyreallyfastsothatthecameracantkeepupohmygod!
Exaggerations of the series quality in hindsight are quite common. Sonic was popular in the 90's because nothing else moved as fluidly, looked as colourful or exuded the charm of Sonic. This is all taken for granted now and every innovation can be argued as old hat. Despite all of this I still think Sonic 1 can stand with the best platformers of the 16bit era as one of the best; eclipsed by it's sequels, sure, but on the higher echelon none the less.
Exaggerations of the series quality in hindsight are quite common. Sonic was popular in the 90's because nothing else moved as fluidly, looked as colourful or exuded the charm of Sonic. This is all taken for granted now and every innovation can be argued as old hat. Despite all of this I still think Sonic 1 can stand with the best platformers of the 16bit era as one of the best; eclipsed by it's sequels, sure, but on the higher echelon none the less.
Nocturnowl
Member
While I agree with the Sonic 2 getting weaker towards the end train of thought the only stage I think is particularly naff is Wing Fortress, Oil Ocean and Metropolis just strike me as being kinda "there".
I'm guessing the Metropolis grief understandably comes from its unholy trinity of badniks, self destruct staryu, scyther, and kingler
I'm guessing the Metropolis grief understandably comes from its unholy trinity of badniks, self destruct staryu, scyther, and kingler
Shadoken
Member
Do people have the same opinion of other difficult games like Castlevania and Megaman? Those also have some trial and error parts. Every complaint I see about Genesis Sonics is "This is too hard , I cant finish the game in one swoop run , This enemy was unexpected". Sometimes its those unique quirks that made the games enjoyable. Not every game needs to be built to "Stand the test of time". Because the novelty wears off when many others games repeat it.
I wonder if years from now people will be saying the same thing about Dark Souls. Not like they dont already but still.
I wonder if years from now people will be saying the same thing about Dark Souls. Not like they dont already but still.
It's less about "opinions change", it's more than no one really argues that Sonic 1 is a amazing game anyway (most people place it at the bottom of the totem pole of the classic gen) and the idea that it betrayed some sort of memory you had of it and would lead you to fear replaying Sonic 2 (the GOAT) incase it does the same thing just seems silly.
Sonic 1 was never a particularly amazing game, and most of the fandom would likely agree with that. Sonic 2, CD and S3&K were all winners for different reasons, and stand the test of time.
When people speak highly of Sonic, it's almost always about 2, 3&K and CD. If anything you just sort of came around to the general public consensus.
Hell I would place Sonic 3D Blast (both Saturn AND Genesis versions) above Sonic 1.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
You sure we talking about the same place? Lava shoots you in the air here.
30.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Even though I consider myself a fan of classic Sonic, I haven't replayed 1 in years. I still think its good but I do agree that Labryinth Zone was never a very enjoyable stage.
Sonic CD is the only one I've never been able to warm up to at all. I've tried at least three separate times.
Sonic CD is the only one I've never been able to warm up to at all. I've tried at least three separate times.
I thought Ep. 2 was really good, but by then the well was poisoned and it reviewed even worse than Ep. 1
Sonic 4 had amazing design though. The biggest flaw of the classics is that you can run into enemies and drop rings. Sonic 4 fixes that by having most of the enemies not move at all!
IrishNinja
Member
ugh, more of this
just as wrong as the OP!
no, we need to disregard that camp entirely, they don't know about quality platforming
just as wrong as the OP!
no, we need to disregard that camp entirely, they don't know about quality platforming
Professor Beef
Banned
Conversely, "lol" at yet another thread where someone tries to make a claim but can't back up their "feelings" with anything substantial. FOH.
ROUGE_BLOCK
Member
Holy shit they don't move at all! What a game changer! Fuck getting hit by those fire balls from those asshole craps I could just hit them on the SPOT!
Seven Force
Banned
Same place, but I was mistaken about the platform layout. On that return trip from the 1-up, you can jump on to the first platform from the block while heading right, jump from that to the next one going right, then head left and build enough momentum to clear that jump on the the main path without the block.
It's risky, but it's far faster than making the slow lava trip on the block. Basic risk vs. reward, really.
This, except i didnt know anyone who liked any sonic
One kid was pretty into knuckles, but he thought knuckles was a gerbil
What? Why?
Yeah but Mega Man is the better platformer, all of them. And they control much better too.
Voysa Reezun
Banned
Sonic 4 was just proof that SEGA misunderstood Sonic so much at that point that they thought that the praise for the day stages of Unleashed was because everyone liked the homing attack, so they should put it in the 2D games, too. Just a total misunderstanding about what people liked about modern 3D Sonic and how that might be different from what they liked about the classic 2D Sonic games.
Sonic Mania seems like maybe they're finally understanding the distinction.
Sonic Mania seems like maybe they're finally understanding the distinction.
AquaticSquirrel
Member
My thoughts exactly.
Aeriscloud
Banned
IrishNinja
Member
always odd seeing "sonic 2 GOAT" but then not enough of y'all played 3/K, the true GOAT
TALK TO EM FAM
...1's not everyone's favorite, but this is taking it a bit too far
TALK TO EM FAM
...1's not everyone's favorite, but this is taking it a bit too far
Cindi Mayweather
Member
If people don't think so highly of Sonic 1 then please explain the reactions in this thread.
What? I've made my positions clear. You just have disagreed or ignored them. Sonic 1 is a bad game and I've articulated why I think that is the case.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
I never liked Sonic 1. But Sonic 2 is one of the best platformers ever.
Nocturnowl
Member
3D Blast is tedious as heck, it's like a whole game of marble zones!
Time for my obligatory "Sonic 1 Master System is best Sonic 1 post".
Time for my obligatory "Sonic 1 Master System is best Sonic 1 post".
I've come to appreciate Sonic 1 more over the years actually. Still a fun platformer. Sonic 2 and 3 are better at the "fast" feeling but Sonic 1 as a platformer is fine if you don't focus on the "fast" element (which honestly only really exists in like 2 zones).
Why is this topic brought up every time there's Sonic-related news? Some people like it, some don't, the same points are brought up over and over again.
Why is this topic brought up every time there's Sonic-related news? Some people like it, some don't, the same points are brought up over and over again.
ScientificPizza
Banned
Sylverstone14
Member
Play Sonic 2 and come back tomorrow.
T'is a fact. All my sources say so.
JP soundtrack only though. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Because there's a huge area between "This is the best game ever with no flaws at all" and "This game is bad and hasn't aged well at all"
Yaphett Kotto
Member
I thought Ep. 2 was really good, but by then the well was poisoned and it reviewed even worse than Ep. 1
I hate both equally.
Didn't help that the SonicRetro community did better 2D Sonic than what Dimps did by tenfold.
This.