Kerry I agree has done a good job but he didn't have to deal with the Arab Spring. She laid a lot of the ground work that made Kerry's job easier such as the Iran deal.
The Democratic National Convention OT |2016|: The One With the Policy
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Kerry I agree has done a good job but he didn't have to deal with the Arab Spring. She laid a lot of the ground work that made Kerry's job easier such as the Iran deal.
PlayALLtheGames
Banned
Helping children and families which she has done since she was quite young.
All very easy to read about on the good ol' internet; I suggest you give it a try.
And people really need to stop misrepresenting her on the Iraq vote. She did not simply "vote for war in Iraq." Again, easily verifiable.
So you have no point. You responded to a post about why it is important to vote for the Democratic candidate for President with #LegislatorsMatter, when the topic at hand was the Presidency.
To a bunch of points where the legislature matters as much as the presidency. #omgnuance #howdoesgovernmentwork
Polioliolio
Member
It does. I just don't know why she needs to be 'humanized'. What is she, a freaking robot?
Also I'm irked how the media all focus on the same talking points, which are of course centered on what draws the most sensational conversations. There's so much meat in these speeches, but you're probably never going to hear the media touch those speeches from the 9/11 survivor or the guy with the dwarf disease. Even The Albright and Dean speeches seemed to vanish off the planet.
Flying Toaster
Member
I just finished watching all the speeches not 20 minutes ago. What you pointed out has actually impressed me the most so far with the convention. Michelle Obama's speech moved the bar on how speeches should be. Bernie's speech was much better than I ever imagined. Bill had a great laid back speech where he was the BIll Clinton we all know.
But woven through this entire convention the thing that has stood out the most to me is the personal stories.
No matter your political ideology or thoughts. Clearly just how the conventions stack up RNC/DNC the DNC is setting the bar for how a convention should be.
JeTmAn81
Member
Bill's speech itself was basically perfect in terms of painting a picture of Hillary as a compassionate person who wants to work for social justice through government.
The problem was it came from a guy who cheated on her for years. The fact that she forgave him always seemed out of character for her and enhanced her image as someone who is secretly obsessed with power.
The problem was it came from a guy who cheated on her for years. The fact that she forgave him always seemed out of character for her and enhanced her image as someone who is secretly obsessed with power.
Oh. Yeah, I don't pretend to understand the complexities of another person's personal relationship.
Do you know that she didn't do the same?
Which is a fucked up narrative in itself. First off, their relationship issues are one thing I'd say are pretty much none of anyone's business. That harder on people who are public figures, but that doesn't mean we have right to know what happened between them. Second, literally thousands of couples go through problems, even cheating, and come together stronger for it.
So, in viewing that a couple has personal problems we are not privy to and viewing that they have reconciled, we assume it must be out of nefarious intentions on the wife's part?
That's fucked up.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
This is some BS narrative.
Not only that, it doesn't even do anything to negate what Bill had said about Hillary's accomplishments.
Changing your views based on the addition of new facts is a quality anyone in leadership positions need to have. Being stubborn to your grave and clashing with everyone around you is never the way to go
The fact that this is used as a negative for Hillary, especially since all of her positions have gotten more progressive as time went on, is absurd. As the country has changed, she has changed along with it ensuring she will do what the people need. This is GOOD
This notion that out the womb you need to be for increased minimum wage or whatever is insanity, and part of the reason it will truly be hard to elect anyone
Killer Queen
Banned
"But anyone can go in and change Wikipedia!1!1!"
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
What made Bill's speech so effective is that he is a speaker like Mark Twain was writer. He started with this little story that branched and grew with enough humor and emotional beats that you get drawn in in the smallness of it until he flips it into the meaning of life. By time he got to the "real one or the fake one" we had no idea where he was going but immediately understood what was meant. It was a beautiful speech and will linger with me for a long while.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Edit: Massive formatting error! That's what I try to get for writing a rant on my phone!
Two things here. First, this ignores that basic utilitarianism, trying to do the most good possible at the time, is a principle. Did Hillry do things in 90s that appear illiberal now? Hell yes. We would never support any of the laws that were passed back then on homosexuality or cracking down on crime or cutting back welfare. But it was the 90s! Democrats were living in a pretty well justified fear that Reagan had permanently shifted the country to the right and were fighting a desperate rearguard action against that. DOMA and Don't Ask Don't Tell and welfare reform and tough-on-crime rhetoric were all necessary concessions at the time to preserve what parts of liberalism could be against a more conservative electorate. They were the only way we were getting elected at all. Banks and big business donate to everyone who might win, so what's wrong with taking that money and using it to win elections for progressives, instead of handicapping ourselves and letting Republicans outspend us even more? She was supposed to take down the Confederate flag over Arkansas in the 80s? Ok, and then two years later a Republican would have won in a landslide running on a platform of putting it back. She's supposed to turn down job offers where she can do a lot of good because occasionally the job will demand things of her that she'll disagree with? Then she'll never take any job where she can do any real good. Ever. On Iraq, sure, she fell for the bad intel, along with almost everyone else. Bernie was one of the few who didn't. But Bernie would've opposed anything, he's just the broken clock being right twice a day.
Second (and I realize some who agree with me on paragraph one may disagree here) I'm kind of tired of the way the opinions of less-leftist liberals who supported Hillary over Bernie from the start get washed away in some attempt to appease Bernie supporters, because on some of these, she was right from the start. And because I'm fundamentally ok with compromise, I'm ok that she's giving her leftist opposition some of what they want, but it makes it ridiculous when you the side that's winning, turns around and instead of being happy with winning, lambast her for being insincere. She was right that a $15 dollar minimum wage probably is too high for large chunks of the country, that it's unfair to saddle rural Americans to a wage level set for cities that their economies can't support, and that we'd be better off going for $12 and encouraging high-cost jurisdictions to bump it up to $15. But she gave you guys $15 because you turned out and voted for it. She was right that the Central American trade deal and TPP now are pretty run-of-the-mill trade agreements that really do lead to economic growth and have lifted millions out of poverty abroad. But now she's ready to kill it because you guys turned out and voted for it. Complete bans on fracking just don't make sense when so long as Republicans are blocking any real action on climate, shifting more and more to natural gas is the best net positive we realistically have on the table. A new Glass-Steagall and breaking up the banks would be nice, but they're ultimately a minor reforms that kind of distract from serious reforms. The Great Recession was triggered by the collapse of Bear Stearns, an institution that was neither big enough to trigger a break-up under any of the proposals on the table nor fell afoul of Glass-Steagall. Killing the Keystone pipeline didn't make a difference in the world; it was a drop in the bucket. It just became a symbolic cause for environmentalists. So on the merits, she supported it, and flipped her position when reality changed, because the project grew to be something symbolically to people that it wasn't on paper. On all of these, she's made concessions to her primary opponents despite having solid arguments behind her original positions, and instead of getting credit for giving you what you want, she gets demonized as insincere. It's ridiculous.
Two things here. First, this ignores that basic utilitarianism, trying to do the most good possible at the time, is a principle. Did Hillry do things in 90s that appear illiberal now? Hell yes. We would never support any of the laws that were passed back then on homosexuality or cracking down on crime or cutting back welfare. But it was the 90s! Democrats were living in a pretty well justified fear that Reagan had permanently shifted the country to the right and were fighting a desperate rearguard action against that. DOMA and Don't Ask Don't Tell and welfare reform and tough-on-crime rhetoric were all necessary concessions at the time to preserve what parts of liberalism could be against a more conservative electorate. They were the only way we were getting elected at all. Banks and big business donate to everyone who might win, so what's wrong with taking that money and using it to win elections for progressives, instead of handicapping ourselves and letting Republicans outspend us even more? She was supposed to take down the Confederate flag over Arkansas in the 80s? Ok, and then two years later a Republican would have won in a landslide running on a platform of putting it back. She's supposed to turn down job offers where she can do a lot of good because occasionally the job will demand things of her that she'll disagree with? Then she'll never take any job where she can do any real good. Ever. On Iraq, sure, she fell for the bad intel, along with almost everyone else. Bernie was one of the few who didn't. But Bernie would've opposed anything, he's just the broken clock being right twice a day.
Second (and I realize some who agree with me on paragraph one may disagree here) I'm kind of tired of the way the opinions of less-leftist liberals who supported Hillary over Bernie from the start get washed away in some attempt to appease Bernie supporters, because on some of these, she was right from the start. And because I'm fundamentally ok with compromise, I'm ok that she's giving her leftist opposition some of what they want, but it makes it ridiculous when you the side that's winning, turns around and instead of being happy with winning, lambast her for being insincere. She was right that a $15 dollar minimum wage probably is too high for large chunks of the country, that it's unfair to saddle rural Americans to a wage level set for cities that their economies can't support, and that we'd be better off going for $12 and encouraging high-cost jurisdictions to bump it up to $15. But she gave you guys $15 because you turned out and voted for it. She was right that the Central American trade deal and TPP now are pretty run-of-the-mill trade agreements that really do lead to economic growth and have lifted millions out of poverty abroad. But now she's ready to kill it because you guys turned out and voted for it. Complete bans on fracking just don't make sense when so long as Republicans are blocking any real action on climate, shifting more and more to natural gas is the best net positive we realistically have on the table. A new Glass-Steagall and breaking up the banks would be nice, but they're ultimately a minor reforms that kind of distract from serious reforms. The Great Recession was triggered by the collapse of Bear Stearns, an institution that was neither big enough to trigger a break-up under any of the proposals on the table nor fell afoul of Glass-Steagall. Killing the Keystone pipeline didn't make a difference in the world; it was a drop in the bucket. It just became a symbolic cause for environmentalists. So on the merits, she supported it, and flipped her position when reality changed, because the project grew to be something symbolically to people that it wasn't on paper. On all of these, she's made concessions to her primary opponents despite having solid arguments behind her original positions, and instead of getting credit for giving you what you want, she gets demonized as insincere. It's ridiculous.
JeTmAn81
Member
He's an amazing speaker, a fact I was reminded of by his speech last night. You get almost a sense of magic listening to him and it's easy to understand how he was so successful in public life. But I lived through the scandals of the 90's and I think those will always taint his image in my mind. I don't think I can ever buy the idea that he truly changed.
This really doesn't have much to do with the topic at hand but god I hate utilitarianism. I care for deontological ethics even less.
Both philosophies end up ignoring the individual. Not to mention they often ignore contexts and complications in regards to various situations of life. They can also be used to justify ignoring/doing even worse to the minority especially in favor of the majority. It's depressing how long they were both such rigid schools of thought. It's even more depressing the extremes people took them to.
Feminist critique that revolved around putting yourself in someone's elses shoe's just feels way more personable to me. Carol Gilligan and Nel Noddings were great early-ish feminist writers. That with Sartre's existentialism and proposals by Wiesenthal are more nuanced ethical standards for me.
In regards to relating it to the topic, compromise with the Republicans more or less ruined lives for decades. I'm not going to hold Hillary to the fire for that, it's a problem that Democrats as a whole more or less embraced and one of my biggest issues with them as a party. But if they're actually going to turn out for the downticket for once, make the SC liberal, and gain control of all branches of government, I'll maybe start to like them more. It's an issue to me because the two party system and the way it has behaved with compromise after compromise silences minority voices. That's where pretty much any of my critique of the Democrats comes from. I will, of course, vote for them. But it's because I more or less have to. Which isn't really a standing ovation for how they've behaved. And it's not because I agree with everything that they stand for. Just no one else comes close to representing my ideals in the political landscape that has any shot at winning. But they're finally starting to veer left-ward again so that's a good sign. Big thanks to Bernie for that.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Man, MSNBC going hard after Fox News audience. They do not stop playing up the division between the Bernie bros and Clinton. Sheesh
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
You can believe what you want but this speech wasn't about him, or him speaking for her. He carefully worded this as a living testament of her actions. Bill didn't go into "She thought, she knew etc etc." he described her journey from his eyes. The personal scandals are pretty irrelevant in this. The first three quarters are not completely a political speech either for example probably my favorite moment was when he was right before he mentioned her father. Bill stopped, looked directly into the camera with some nervousness and called him "crusty." It's a small moment but a very human moment in his story. Again that what makes this so powerful as speech, not the political part of it but the slow building of the personal testament to tie into the case on why she should be president.
They've been really hard on Hillary this election.
eBay Huckster
Member
Have they heard about Trump's comments from an hour ago? Because I can think of a few reasons why, at this point.
Tim Kaine (& Hilary) backs call to boost funding for Israeli missile defense
"All that progressiveness, so overwhelming that I gotta spend more money on missiles for Israel even though they can pay for it themselves."
"All that progressiveness, so overwhelming that I gotta spend more money on missiles for Israel even though they can pay for it themselves."
The fact that you even brought up the "Goldwater support" in the first place when she was 17 fucking years old at the time shows how much you're reaching just to fit a per-defined narrative.
(Or, more likely, you're just regurgitating stupid talking points presented on stupid blog posts without trying to form your own thoughts)
Look - you're making a lot of comparisons between Hillary and Bernie.
You know what else is cool?
Bernie endorsed Hillary.
If you actually respect Bernie as much as you're pretending to respect him by putting him up on a pedestal as the bastion of all that is good and holy with the world, maybe you should listen to him now when he's making his most important declaration of his entire presidential campaign so far.
Trump to give national security secrets to Russia.
eBay Huckster
Member
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We're like brothers now!
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
Finally watched Bill's speech. Still such a natural. His ability to disarm the audience and spread out a perspective like a map really set a grounded and organic tone for everything to come. The point was obviously to humanize her, but the subtext was strong as well I thought, drawing this crazy election back into a familiar continuum of a worldview of complex people and challenges versus a worldview of cartoons and self-interest.
Splash Wave
Member
Look, GAF--it's okay to vote for Hillary as a "Never Trump" vote; I get it. But the mental gymnastics on display in posts like this to give Hillary credit where it isn't deserved (or to write off her staggeringly long list of past and present blunders), borders on pathological. You're under no obligation to give a nakedly self-serving politician the benefit of the doubt to such a degree.
It's admirable to examine things and change your viewpoints for the better. I'm not really sure what gymnastics you're seeing.
eBay Huckster
Member
the russians have poisoned you at his request. rip
You Are Viewtiful
Member
Missile defence is not the same as bombing Gaza, although I can't say I support giving money to Israel in general.
They're basically beta testing technology for the US.
I'm actually pretty open to Hillary's faults. I was a Bernie supporter and I think she handled several things poorly or wrongly.
But the mentality that politicians who change their positions are weak or hypocritical or lack in conviction is a seriously dangerous and inhumane way of treating a person. I don't approve of that for anyone, not just Hillary. People change. And it's a good thing for them to change if it's for the better.
So, yeah, things like choosing to go to Iraq when we shouldn't have? Wrong choice, definitely, but I think it's more insane to permanently hold that against her when we were ALL operating on bad information that lead to most of the country agreeing that we should go to Iraq. It's a mistake literally almost everyone in America made. I don't see it as mental gymnastics to not hold her to an impossible standard.
As someone who hasn't been following the election closely or know every single detail about either candidate outside of the occasional threads here or w/e is on the tv at the office. Been keeping up with the conventions though.
Clinton has a resume, and kinda reminds me of my mom who's insanely hardworking and is aggressive about her objectives.
And trump, seems kinda... dumb? Like I'm having the hardest of time finding any info about anything positive or intelligent about him.
Like what has he done ' for good' in his career?
Clinton has a resume, and kinda reminds me of my mom who's insanely hardworking and is aggressive about her objectives.
And trump, seems kinda... dumb? Like I'm having the hardest of time finding any info about anything positive or intelligent about him.
Like what has he done ' for good' in his career?
StarSketch
Banned
Someone want to give me a source for the DNC emails? I'm tired of hearsay on this matter.
eBay Huckster
Member
It's not - that place (in particular /r/politics) has been Email Central for this entire calendar year to the exclusion of literally anything else.
Lol of course not.
AntraxSuicide
Banned
This is a great post, I agree with all of it (especially your second paragraph). I'm a bit annoyed that she's had to take on a lot of positions that are simply not sound logically ($15 minimum wage in Mississippi is insane).
Her list of blunders isn't "stageringly long", especially for a politician who has had the spotlight shined on her for over 20 years now.
soundahfekz
Member
cause a woman's power can only be achieved through a man right?
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Reddit has been taken over by Sanders and Trump folks. The Trump people are upvoting anti-muslim threads and all kinds of other shenanigans.
Iirc shouldn't the minimum wage be like 18 bucks and hour if it was keeping track with its historic value in the 60s?
s4p seems more concerned with subreddit drama than their own candidate at this point
AIPAC still has a vise grip on both parties.
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