PhazonBlazer
Member
Where has Jynthe been this whole time?
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League of Legends Championship Series: Season 6
- Thread starter zkylon
- Start date
called it
BreezyLimbo
Banned
well
That's the end of fabby being a starter for tl
That's the end of fabby being a starter for tl
BreezyLimbo
Banned
newts role model
NihonTiger90
Member
Former Team Frostbite ADC.
His duo lane partner on Frostbite was a guy no one ever heard of named Biofrost.
PhazonBlazer
Member
https://twitter.com/TL_Goldenglue/status/764939679946854403
Jynthe said in comms, "This is so fucking easy"
The god.
Jynthe said in comms, "This is so fucking easy"
The god.
PhillipCostigan
Member
#JYNTHEWIN
or
#AURELIONSOLWIN
or
#AURELIONSOLWIN
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Y'know after watching TI
and seeing TL use the same damn team as last time
Riot really needs to work on the meta and the variety present in it
and seeing TL use the same damn team as last time
Riot really needs to work on the meta and the variety present in it
Frostbite with the hidden OPs.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
When they pick the same damn team and CLG adjusts
Yeah they fucked up
If anything it speaks to TL's ability on different champs. They saw something that worked one time, and thought it would work again. That means one of two things-TL are one trick ponies, or they felt that those champions were the most viable choices.
thestopsign
Member
I'm not sure if the champions or the players are the problem. From what I saw everyone plays super sloppy in Dota. Like they don't play risk averse like League players do and that translates to how they draft. I watched the finals last night and it seemed like people just randomly die way more often in Dota for virtually no reason.
Birgitte2004
Member
I wonder how easy he thought it was when CLG demolished them in game 4.
He's cocky enough to be on TL if he really meant that though, I'll give him that.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
In DotA, dying is more averse than League. That is, until a certain point where buybacks become a valid strategy, but I'm talking about pick variety. If there was one constant in last nights TI finals, it was Faceless Void and Ogre Magi, more or less. Otherwise, the picks were extremely varied.
Now in TL's case, they picked the same damn team again for the final match. Maybe it's because they thought it would work again. Maybe it's because they felt those were the strongest picks available to them. Or maybe they're one trick ponies. But it left a sour taste in my mouth.
shira
Member
PhazonBlazer
Member
Looks like Jynthe was just a fluke too
Stone Ocean
Member
That's what the next two patches are for
thestopsign
Member
I think TL just isn't that good of a team in their current form. They picked the same team comp all 4 games so it must have been their best shot at winning in their mind. CLG picked the same comp the first 3 games, and then once they got pressured by the game 3 loss they were able to make corrections. I'm pretty sure they didn't want to reveal their Olaf and Aurelion pick before the TSM series.
Stone Ocean
Member
Also yeah, current TL is shit
thestopsign
Member
I'm not an expert on Dota or anything, I just watched their finals last night and that was my take. I'm not sure if it has something to do with vision or the way cross map movements work in Dota, but often times it just seems like side lane champs or champs that were roaming through the enemy jungle were just super out of position for what they saw on the map.
In League information on where the enemy is is super important. Pros tend to play risk averse when they do not know where the enemy jungler is or enemy mid lane and so on. I didn't see the same thing in Dota at the very highest level.
SpiceMelange
Member
Smokes.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
That's because the laning phase is completely different in DotA. Usually it's the carries farming alone in sidelanes, you have heroes who can gank roaming(Which is what you might have seen), you have someone jungling, and then have a couple in a lane.
That and ganking is more fluid in DotA. That is, let's say you're top in League, there's only a few different positions you can gank from. In DotA, since the environment/trees are destroyable/navigable, you can gank from much more positions(And there's usually skills from characters that let them circumvent the environment).
You definitely have to get a feel to how DotA plays compared to League. But I'm not talking about that, but the variety of characters selected >_>;
Well, he's right in that DOTA being gank-friendly contributes to pick variety (but so does a lot of other things).
It's not so much that pro players are being "sloppy", but that playing risk averse is a strategy (a valid one among many) that's been actively balanced against for the last 5 years, pretty much from the beginning of DOTA2.
It's not so much that pro players are being "sloppy", but that playing risk averse is a strategy (a valid one among many) that's been actively balanced against for the last 5 years, pretty much from the beginning of DOTA2.
Failed Risk isn't as punishing in Pro Dota compared to League, so players will take more risks to try and exploit when their line up is stronger. Plus map vision is much harder to maintain in comparison, forcing some level of risk. In addition, more itemization choices gives more flexibility in how teams approach the game, and allow teams to change their overall strategy, which in turns encourages risk taking since you can buy midgame items to help win early, and conversely buy items to help stall out.
I think access to map resources may also play a large part in it. It always seemed like teams capped out of places to farm far sooner in league compared to Dota, which makes it very hard to come back if a risky play fails, plus you often get more Gold and XP not taking a risk then even succeeding, discouraging risk even more so. With items that improve farming speed and ability to move around in Dota, this also encourages people to take additional risks to try and farm more of the map, since there are additional resources you can potentially secure if you go to less safe spots.
thestopsign
Member
That was just what I noticed with a brief glimpse into the game. I wish League had that type of variety in picks, strategy, and itemization.
I really think that Riot needs to stop nerfing champions and taking items out of the game as they try to maintain a relative balance. Just buff the weaker champs and leave in items to accommodate pocket strategies and counter certain champions/situations. They should also add at least 1 more ban for each side and probably 2. If League had the bans weaved into the later parts of the drafting phase like DOTA we would see much greater variety of picks. A few slight tweaks could make a world of difference.
There's a lot of system working behind the scenes, like jungle layouts, tower positions, lane width, gold rewards (and malluses) for dying, exp split, that goes into making risk-taking the preferred way to play in DOTA. It really goes beyond hero and item design.
thestopsign
Member
Oh I understand that. I had kind of moved on to pick/comp diversity in my last post.
Kotetsu534
Member
I think much of the champion diversity problem originates in the jungle. When you pretty much have to have Rek'Sai or Gragas in 90% of your team comps (failing them, Elise, Olaf or Hecarim most likely) it limits what you can do with your other slots. AD and top actually have a fair amount of variety if you look worldwide (support's been too biased in favour of the tanky disengagers Braum, Alistar, Taric, Tahm, though you still see the occasional Soraka and Nami), but they need to fit around what the jungle and support bring. And when you have exclusively melee bruisers in the jungle it means you will want to pick safe waveclear elsewhere, likely mid.
And this leads into my personal problem with the current LoL meta: it's not that there are too few champions picked per se, but that everyone's playing the same strategy. You don't see poke comps now. Or fast push comps. Or turtle/scaling comps. Or crazy early game snowball comps. Or assassin comps. There's some splitpushing, but largely done by Gnar and Irelia who are more than happy to abandon their split to join a teamfight (contrast, say, top Nidalee or Rengar in season 2, or even Jax, who'd rather die than leave their lane). There's some pickoffs, but not the outright Elise/Thresh/TF catch comps you saw all through season 3. Can't remember the last time I saw a serious Blitzcrank pick either. Mostly teams play to contest the early game hard, then win teamfights in the mid to late, then siege down the enemy base if necessary. This is because Riot's pushed the game in that direction, making early rushing much tougher, making turtling much tougher, making cross-map mobility more prevalent, making it harder to shut the other team out of vision, making dragon more important and making baron more doable. In other words, this is where they have chosen to take the game.
I do miss when teams had more distinct styles (I found seasons 2 and 4 were the best seasons to follow for this reason), but I can't deny that games are probably more entertaining now than they once were.
I think more Kha'Zix, more Nunu, more Eve, heaven forbid, even some viable tank junglers(!) in competitive would inevitably bring more strategic variety.
And this leads into my personal problem with the current LoL meta: it's not that there are too few champions picked per se, but that everyone's playing the same strategy. You don't see poke comps now. Or fast push comps. Or turtle/scaling comps. Or crazy early game snowball comps. Or assassin comps. There's some splitpushing, but largely done by Gnar and Irelia who are more than happy to abandon their split to join a teamfight (contrast, say, top Nidalee or Rengar in season 2, or even Jax, who'd rather die than leave their lane). There's some pickoffs, but not the outright Elise/Thresh/TF catch comps you saw all through season 3. Can't remember the last time I saw a serious Blitzcrank pick either. Mostly teams play to contest the early game hard, then win teamfights in the mid to late, then siege down the enemy base if necessary. This is because Riot's pushed the game in that direction, making early rushing much tougher, making turtling much tougher, making cross-map mobility more prevalent, making it harder to shut the other team out of vision, making dragon more important and making baron more doable. In other words, this is where they have chosen to take the game.
I do miss when teams had more distinct styles (I found seasons 2 and 4 were the best seasons to follow for this reason), but I can't deny that games are probably more entertaining now than they once were.
I think more Kha'Zix, more Nunu, more Eve, heaven forbid, even some viable tank junglers(!) in competitive would inevitably bring more strategic variety.
Man, I don't even know what could be done. It's a shame the Morde experiment was a failure, I'd have loved a shake up to the standard lanes it proposed. I think the issue it's due to the fact that buffs and nerfs are just numbers changes and pro teams go to the highest number because they're less risky picks. That's my simplistic explanation.
I mean, whenever "out of meta" picks get picked they almost always do well and while not really comparable, in Solo Q you can do well will almost any champion. Is just that pro teams are extremely risk adverse and have been for the past 2 seasons more so.
I think that the number of champions that truly suck (a la Teemo) is actually really small. So it sucks that we don't see more picks.
The thing is I still have lots of fun watching the game even if the pick variety is shit, so who knows.
I mean, whenever "out of meta" picks get picked they almost always do well and while not really comparable, in Solo Q you can do well will almost any champion. Is just that pro teams are extremely risk adverse and have been for the past 2 seasons more so.
I think that the number of champions that truly suck (a la Teemo) is actually really small. So it sucks that we don't see more picks.
The thing is I still have lots of fun watching the game even if the pick variety is shit, so who knows.
Hydrophobic
Member
Off track for the meta discussion but on topic for the thread: I'm super hyped to see one of the special streams for EU focusing on the bot lane matchup. Especially since we're almost 100% certain to get standard lanes now, the bot lane stream should be really interesting.
Imperfected
Member
We're a bit over an hour and a half out from the rescheduled quarterfinal for the Poverty League, right?
Hydrophobic
Member
Right. Starts in an hour and forty from now. 11AM CST/ 8AM PST.
Imperfected
Member
Ugh, another incredibly mediocre Gangplank player.
What's the over/under on getting a balance patch nerfing cross-map ultimates (GP, Ashe, Shen) prior to Worlds?
What's the over/under on getting a balance patch nerfing cross-map ultimates (GP, Ashe, Shen) prior to Worlds?
Evolution of Metal
Member
Imperfected
Member
Not the ECA nerf that's actually needed (the obvious problem isn't the damage, it either needs the Stun duration lowered, the CD increased, or both), but I guess it'll have to do.
I'd actually like to see them shift the power around in GP's kit so he's able to walk into lane with Gnar or Ekko without having them poop directly down his throat, but I guess that's the sort of thing you can revisit once he's no longer the master of No Fun Allowed with his stupid ultimate.
Hydrophobic
Member
I think we can safely say the better team won today. Fnatic got some advantages, but H2K always took them back.
Uh, waiting on stream 2 right now feeling like 'Production Values EleGiggle'. Hey there's the mic finally!
Uh, waiting on stream 2 right now feeling like 'Production Values EleGiggle'. Hey there's the mic finally!
Imperfected
Member
Yeah, it's hard not to like seeing the First Blood King walk all over a jungler whose gameplan seems to be 30 minute power-farming on Nidalee.
Not to mention that I still have a soft spot for Forgiven after he poured his heart out in that one impromptu interview.
Not to mention that I still have a soft spot for Forgiven after he poured his heart out in that one impromptu interview.
Ghost is Bad
Banned
kikis gp: hold my beer
odo gp: neither the flames nor the depths could claim me
odo gp: neither the flames nor the depths could claim me
Hydrophobic
Member
Newt, you said not to spoil the games in chat yesterday but by now I'm sure you saw how it turned out for Rekkles.
NihonTiger90
Member
Thanks for waiting until after the Fantasy LCS season to do that, Newt.
BTW, G2 locked in for Worlds now, first LCS team to qualify.