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[LordOfLore]

Link.

Civil War II has Marvel’s superheroes fighting each other again; this time, it’s over whether it’s better to try and stop evil when you have foreknowledge in advance. Captain Marvel is leading the charge on predictive justice and it’s a stance that’s making the heroine almost totally unlikeable.

The heroine who leads up Earth’s defense against extraterrestrial threats is taking a hardline stance on predictive justice. Despite the loss of her boyfriend and the reasoning she’s been given in various stories, it’s a hard one to sympathize with. Here’s the exact moment that the storyline lost me, when Captain Marvel says that she’d act on information that might have only a 10% chance of being right:

Part of what’s chilling about Carol’s beliefs is the nature of the action taken. When it’s a street-level interception like the guy-with-a-gun example in the panels above, bad intel might result in hurt feelings and/or litigation. A handful of lives could get ruined but one could still write that off as known costs of securing safety in a flawed system. But bad intel on a superhero-vs-supervillain level means the risk of exponentially higher loss of life and massive property damage, along with human rights violations. Most importantly, the knowledge that superheroes might be acting on predictions with unreliable accuracy almost certainly leads to a lack of public trust, which has been slowly playing out across the fiction.

In many ways, the Civil War events are executions of the classic Marvel ethos, which is to present superheroes who have all the foibles and failings of real people. But anyone in the real world who spouted Carol’s beliefs would come under a whole lot of justifiable criticism. You might even call them a villain.

Note that the list of things miss a couple of things in other books like Ms. Marvel dealing with pretty much internment camps made with Danvers blessing.

 

[Sheentak]

Carol is a shit. Always have been always will be.
Monica now that's a super hero

 

[Blader]

They're ruining Captain Marvel now so that they can revamp the character later to align with the movie.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Carol is a shit. Always have been always will be.
Monica now that's a super hero

and Billy Batson

 

[DeathoftheEndless]

Just like the original Civil War and Iron Man. (Although I think he had been a dick for a while).

 

[jph139]

Honestly, I like the return to her earlier conservative-tinged ethos. She's got a long military background and is an act-first sort of person, so yeah, it makes sense that she's willing to break a few rules and ignore some rights in the name of protecting the country/world.

I'd rather she be unlikeable than boring.

 

[Corpsepyre]

Read some of CW 2, and I don't know why this was even needed. Horrible writing too!

 

[MadLaughter]

Civil War I did this to Tony Stark, but I think way worse. Negative zone prisons, clone Thors, Thunderbolts, spying through Spidey's gift suit etc.

The 10% line is dumb, but predictive justice is a fine debate to have in comic-book form.

 

[BronsonLee]

Slayven noticed this.

 

[Dysun]

At least they are trying to do something with her non-character

The problem is they let Bendis do it

 

[bananafactory]

Slayven redeemed

 

[ArgyleReptile]

I'd rather she be unlikeable than boring.

This is where I'm leaning. Embrace it for her character.

 

[Squalor]

Civil War II: Minority Report

 

[BKatastrophe]

Just like the original Civil War and Iron Man. (Although I think he had been a dick for a while).

Tony was always a dick. Civil War was just insanely overboard

 

[DeathyBoy]

This characters can't be unlikeable thing is the worst. Bad writing is bad writing, characters being douches isn't bad writing unto itself

 

[Kevinroc]

I agree with the article. This is kind of what Marvel did with Tony Stark in their first Civil War crossover, as well.

 

[Affeinvasion]

Civil War II: Minority Report

Yeah if it was an original idea that'd be one thing. But it isn't.

 

[Mudcrab]

America Chavez agrees.

 

[shoreu]

and Billy Batson

Damn straight

 

[shingi70]

Somebody light the Slayven signal.

 

[Zombine]

Honestly, KSD is a pretty middling writer. She had good intentions for the reboot, but very little of what she wanted to accomplish landed right on its mark. It had a few noteworthy moments (Issue1, 4, some of the smaller character moments, and the finale), but I think Carol was damaged by getting consumed by Infinity, then the torch getting passed after Secret Wars only to land in the hands of Bendis. Outside of her re-design, her new books have been a fuckin mess and Anka and Bendis are doing her no favors.

Marvel has been playing hot potato with this poor character for years now.

 

[BKatastrophe]

At least they are trying to do something with her non-character

The problem is they let Bendis do it

I don't see the problem with that if it's working

 

[Fuchsdh]

This characters can't be unlikeable thing is the worst. Bad writing is bad writing, characters being douches isn't bad writing unto itself

Yep.

Oh my god, you mean that a superhero having foibles is good, but perish the thought they might disagree with you and seem—from your perspective—bad?

Her argument has as much merit as Tony's did, and there is no objectively right answer here; it's all a balance of respecting rights versus protecting lives, and it's an issue we struggle with in the real world, making it absolutely appropriate to bring up in comics.

 

[Fury451]

They've been ruining her for a long time, just not this blatantly. The writing would be simplistic and bad regardless of which character held her stance though.

Marvel doesn't seem to know what to do with her but keeps pushing her as like their flagship female hero. Weird to see.

 

[deadman69]

she's probably a skrull.

 

[Sojgat]

At least she hasn't cloned Thor yet.

 

[Unspeakable Evil]

Slayven Was Right

 

[Weevilone]

I don't know why I even started reading Civil War II. It just crept into some books I was reading, so I started buying stuff .. then stopped. What a waste.

 

[BKatastrophe]

At least she hasn't cloned Thor yet.

Or had Mr. Fantastic build her a Negative Zone prison.

 

[kswiston]

They've been ruining her for a long time, just not this blatantly. The writing would be simplistic and bad regardless of which character held her stance though.

Marvel doesn't seem to know what to do with her but keeps pushing her as like their flagship female hero. Weird to see.

Captain Marvel being such an artificial flagship heroine has something to do with it. Marvel srarted grooming her in comics around the time that they announced their movie deal. It wasnt do to overwhelming fan demand.

 

[Kinyou]

What's weird is that she's so gung-ho about it, like she has a personal stake in this, but I don't really see that she does.

 

[nullref]

Oh good, a Brian Michael Bendis story about superhero infighting. Time to generate conflict by having a bunch of characters suddenly become assholes.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Yeah Carol is getting the same shit-stick that Tony got in the original comic

Out of character bullshit really killing the appeal of a character that already struggled to engage audiences

 

[Pilgrimzero]

I think at the end it's going to reveal she's kind of lost it due to Warmachine dying. She HAS to make this work to prove he died for nothing.

Also, I like her previous and current book. I think she's a fun character when written well (usually with a bit of humor)

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Uh... Carol's been an asshole for a good part of her career. Whether that's drunk asshole, slightly conservative asshole, or Military Asshole.

She's not John Walker, but when written like a character and not "Marvel's Wonder Woman", she's not far off.

 

[Kelsdesu]

Do yall make these Captain Marvel threads to trigger Slayven?

 

[Affeinvasion]

Somebody light the Slayven signal.

Why would you want to summon him to a Carol thread. He's more predictable than a Brian Bendis thought crime plot.

 

[Unspeakable Evil]

Honestly does Carol need to be completely likable? Some characters like BP, Wolverine, Ironman, and Cyclops are cool because of there dicks behavior. What's Carol got going for her besides being a tough military woman?

 

[inky]

The Slayven signal is lit.

 

[Mr. Poolman]

I'd rather she be unlikeable than boring.

Ahh the Cyclops argument.

 

[Kinyou]

Honestly does Carol need to be completely likable? Some characters like BP, Wolverine, Ironman, and Cyclops are cool because of there dicks behavior. What's Carol got going for her besides being a tough military woman?

I think there's unlikeable and then there's being unreasonable. That she's so determined on this path is just weird to me.

 

[Affeinvasion]

Honestly does Carol need to be completely likable? Some characters like BP, Wolverine, Ironman, and Cyclops are cool because of there dicks behavior. What's Carol got going for her besides being a tough military woman?

You left off Namor, but I agree with your point. I do think Jessica Drew has a better background to be the tough/flawed character though. Or Black Widow for that matter. Carol has always strived to live up to the classic heroism model that both Mar-vell and Captain America stand for.

 

[watership]

Uh... Carol's been an asshole for a good part of her career. Whether that's drunk asshole, slightly conservative asshole, or Military Asshole.

She's not John Walker, but when written like a character and not "Marvel's Wonder Woman", she's not far off.

When written well, she's stubborn, damaged and a mess. The best part of her is she's hard on herself and wants to do better. Considering the rollercoaster of terrible things that she endured, she actually been on an upswing the past 5 years.

 

[Toa TAK]

Isn't this kinda like how the first Civil War ruined Tony?

Either way I've just been staying away, not been really into many Marvel events.


Edit: Answered above.

 

[jon bones]

this storyline is awful

 

[PSqueak]

and Billy Batson

This gave me a sensible chuckle.

 

[Sgt. Kabukiman]

Every time I've seen Carol appear in a book, she's been portrayed as either a drunk or a conservative asshole and that has been the case since the 70s so this doesn't really seem out of character. The weird thing is how Marvel is trying to put her on a pedestal and make her a pillar of the company, like she's their answer to Wonder Woman. They have many characters more suited for that role...

Oh well, her personality will be completely retconned by the movie anyway. Brie Larson is going to be fantastic I'm sure and her version of Carol will probably have nothing to do with the comic version.

 

[darkhunger]

Isn't this kinda like how the first Civil War ruined Tony?

Considering how Tony has rebounded since, maybe Marvel's hoping the lighting will strike the bottle twice? Take the characters to rock bottom and then redeem them by casting super charming actors to play them in their movies?

 

[LordOfLore]

Considering how Tony has rebounded since, maybe Marvel's hoping the lighting will strike the bottle twice? Take the characters to rock bottom and then redeem them by casting super charming actors to play them in their movies?

They rebooted comic Tony's mind after CWI and inserted parts of RDJ's performance. Can't really do that with Carol.

 

[El Topo]

I thought the KSDC run has been a lot of wasted potential. I like Captain Marvel as a character, but KSDC did nothing interesting or particularly entertaining with her.

I think there's unlikeable and then there's being unreasonable. That she's so determined on this path is just weird to me.

It's okay to be unreasonable or nonsensical, as long as you are written to be right, see the latest Civil War movie and the people cheering for Cap.