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Pokémon Sun & Moon | Info and speculation thread

balladofwindfishes said:
Gamefreak seems to love breaking up former pairs.

Scyther got an evo in GS, Pinsir did not. Even if they added a Pokemon that would have been a totally acceptable evolution of Pinsir as an entirely separate Pokemon... Also Gloom got a new evolution, Weepinbel did not.

Gen IV gave Mantine a pre-evo, but not Skarmory. It gave Dusclops an evo, but not Banette. It gave Gligar an evo, but not Delibird.

Gen VI gave Pinsir a mega, but not Scyther. Even if we count Pinsir/Heracross as a new pair, Heracross got a mega before Pinsir. It also gave Mawile a mega before giving Sableye one (although it did get one eventually).

Gen VII gave Meowth an Alola form, but I'd be surprised if Mankey got one to match. We'll also have to see if Ekans and Growlithe get one to match Sandshrew and Vulpix.

However, Magmar and Electabuzz have always been a pair, and have consistently been treated as such. Jynx doesn't really have much of a connection to them, other than the usual Ice/Water, Fire, Electric trio the games used to have quite a few of. And I think that's where people started assuming they were a trio, even when their capture methods would tell you only two of them were a pair, with Jynx as a third, unrelated Pokemon.
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well there's mega scizor
 
One of my favorite generations is Gen IV. I really love the Sinnoh Pokédex, and my favorite thing about it is how older Pokémon got new evos.

Magmortar, Electivire (one of my favorite Pokémon ever), Probopass, Gliscor, Togekiss, Ambipom, Mismagius, Honchkrow, Weavile... Am I forgetting anyone?

I really love these Pokémon. I love their designs, I love their utility, and I like that it brought older Pokémon back into relevance by giving them exciting new evolutions.

The thing I have missed most from Gens V and VI are the lack of new evolutions for outdated or outclassed creatures. Alola forms are cool, but I've never really been on board the idea of Megas, and nothing beats the natural and organic progression of evolving a species for me. I wish that would be revisited.
 
Finale Fireworker said:
One of my favorite generations is Gen IV. I really love the Sinnoh Pokédex, and my favorite thing about it is how older Pokémon got new evos.

Magmortar, Electivire (one of my favorite Pokémon ever), Probopass, Gliscor, Togekiss, Ambipom, Mismagius, Honchkrow, Weavile... Am I forgetting anyone?

I really love these Pokémon. I love their designs, I love their utility, and I like that it brought older Pokémon back into relevance by giving them exciting new evolutions.

The thing I have missed most from Gens V and VI are the lack of new evolutions for outdated or outclassed creatures. Alola forms are cool, but I've never really been on board the idea of Megas, but nothing beats the natural and organic progression of evolving a species for me. I wish that would be revisited.
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Gen IV is my least favorite gen but I agree with you that the new evolutions for some of the older Pokemon was a great idea and sorely missed in the new gens.
 
Livingskeletons said:
Gen IV is my least favorite gen but I agree with you that the new evolutions for some of the older Pokemon was a great idea and sorely missed in the new gens.
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I just remember being a kid, before most of us had internet, and hearing rumors that there were going to be new Pokémon games. At my age and at that time, I never even considered the idea of new Pokémon games. Pokémon was just Pokémon. I was invested in finding the edges of the Earth as defined by R/B/Y, the thought of doubling the world I thought I knew was unbelievable.

And the rumors that came out of these rumors were tantalizing. Badass metal evolutions of Steelix and Scizor? Day and night evolutions of Eevee? Crobat and Politoed and Bellossum and Slowking? This was amazing to me because, when a new Pokémon is added in an evolutionary line, it makes the whole line exciting again. Something as pointless as Zubat was cool now.

Because I didn't care about Onyx in Gen 1, but I sure cared in Gen II when it had the potential to become a Steelix.

Because nobody cares about Golbat or Probopass or Gligar, but you elevate them all when you extend their potential through evolution. I remember, as a kid, wondering if we would ever see fourth-stage evolutions. I don't think we will - GF is really investing in alternate forms instead - but the kid in me still wants to naturally evolve dud Pokémon into something fierce.

Edit: giving it a thought, I feel the same way about the addition of Fairy type. I was really happy to see Pokémon like Azumarill and Clefable rise to relevance again. Maybe Alola forms will satisfy me the same way.
 
balladofwindfishes said:
Gamefreak seems to love breaking up former pairs.

Scyther got an evo in GS, Pinsir did not. Even if they added a Pokemon that would have been a totally acceptable evolution of Pinsir as an entirely separate Pokemon... Also Gloom got a new evolution, Weepinbel did not.

Gen IV gave Mantine a pre-evo, but not Skarmory. It gave Dusclops an evo, but not Banette. It gave Gligar an evo, but not Delibird.

Gen VI gave Pinsir a mega, but not Scyther. Even if we count Pinsir/Heracross as a new pair, Heracross got a mega before Pinsir. It also gave Mawile a mega before giving Sableye one (although it did get one eventually).

Gen VII gave Meowth an Alola form, but I'd be surprised if Mankey got one to match. We'll also have to see if Ekans and Growlithe get one to match Sandshrew and Vulpix.

However, Magmar and Electabuzz have always been a pair, and have consistently been treated as such. Jynx doesn't really have much of a connection to them, other than the usual Ice/Water, Fire, Electric trio the games used to have quite a few of. And I think that's where people started assuming they were a trio, even when their capture methods would tell you only two of them were a pair, with Jynx as a third, unrelated Pokemon.
Click to expand...

There's no such thing as a "pair" (unless it's clearly defined like Plusle and Minun for instance). This whole idea of the "pair" seems to come from the fanbase's misguided sense of balance, when there isn't any. It's completely arbitrary.
 
MegaManTrigger said:
There's no such thing as a "pair" (unless it's clearly defined like Plusle and Minun for instance). This whole idea of the "pair" seems to come from the fanbase's misguided sense of balance, when there isn't any. It's completely arbitrary.
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Pinson and Scythe were mirrored in pokemon red/blue, no?
 
MegaManTrigger said:
There's no such thing as a "pair" (unless it's clearly defined like Plusle and Minun for instance). This whole idea of the "pair" seems to come from the fanbase's misguided sense of balance, when there isn't any. It's completely arbitrary.
Click to expand...

That's a little shallow, isn't it?

We have version-exclusives like Mantine and Skarmory, one in Gold and the other in Silver, which have mirrored stat spreads favoring Special Defense and Defense, respectively, and share things like catch rates and EXP yields. They're never mentioned in the same breath, or even found in the same area, yet they're obviously intended to be counterparts.
 
MegaManTrigger said:
There's no such thing as a "pair" (unless it's clearly defined like Plusle and Minun for instance). This whole idea of the "pair" seems to come from the fanbase's misguided sense of balance, when there isn't any. It's completely arbitrary.
Click to expand...

Gonna have to push back on this a bit. Yeah, it's not good for people to expect their Pokemon observations to be upheld canonically in game, but to say there aren't less explicit pairs is kind of disingenuous. There are most certainly Pokemon that have a duality that aren't paired (sometimes this comes from the version exclusive thing).

Ultimately there's nothing wrong with fans interpreting pokemon relationships as something less explicitly defined in-game because that's what storytelling is about and it makes the games fun. I'd stop calling people (not saying you specifically, I've just seen this a lot) "OCD" and needlessly obsessed with "balance." Some people just like to interpret things in different ways, and sometimes that's okay.

I agree it's ridiculous people throw fits and become angry when TPC does stuff that conflicts with their preconceived notions and all, but golly gee it shouldn't be so odd to see Pokemon fans coming up with fan theories and ideas, because a lot of the time they hold some weight even if they aren't stated in-game.

It'd be great if Pokemon fans wouldn't fall victim to strange storytelling-groupthink, because half of the fun of Pokemon to me is seeing the ideas people come up with. Again, I'm not trying to call anyone in particular out, I'm just saying that not every fan-theory is being shouted as if it's true and sometimes people just like coming up with their own ideas of how things work in this fictional universe.
 
MegaManTrigger said:
There's no such thing as a "pair" (unless it's clearly defined like Plusle and Minun for instance). This whole idea of the "pair" seems to come from the fanbase's misguided sense of balance, when there isn't any. It's completely arbitrary.
Click to expand...

Version exclusive Pokemon are literally pairs in every sense of the word. The fanbase's "misguided" sense of balance comes from the fact that paired Pokemon games literally have a sense of balance.

2345467-tumblr_lhgrc7jbjj1qzxegjo1_1280.png
 
Seviper and Zangoose are a good one.

Gligar and delibird not so much lol.

Yes storytelling and fanmade headcanon is cool and stuff but in the context of Gamefreak intending anything or breaking up pairs that'd hard to say really because we kinda just make it up cuz they mirror each other in some way because they make two versions of the game. Like yeah they're there but talking about them in any practical sense is useless. Its like theorizing rumors based on patterns
 
True Fire said:
Version exclusive Pokemon are literally pairs in every sense of the word. The fanbase's "misguided" sense of balance comes from the fact that paired Pokemon games literally have a sense of balance.

http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/3/32651/2345467-tumblr_lhgrc7jbjj1qzxegjo1_1280.png[/IM][/QUOTE]

Ok but they're pairs until they're not pairs. Like are you gonna say gamefreakbroke up a pair or just acknowledge that it's an arbitrary distinction that can change between titles
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Delio said:
I never understood his beard lol.
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Its supposed to look like a dragon's maw. But it just makes him look stupid.

Worst part of it is that it wastes his otherwise excellent design. He looks like an imposing figure suitable for the final gym leader or even a champion, like a bad-assified older Steven.
 
Vena said:
Its supposed to look like a dragon's maw. But it just makes him look stupid.

Worst part of it is that it wastes his otherwise excellent design. He looks like an imposing figure suitable for the final gym leader or even a champion, like a bad-assified older Steven.
Click to expand...

Yeah other than the beard he looks like a pretty tough guy. Better than suddenly seeing Iris jumping in the air there.
 
Dr. Worm said:
That's a little shallow, isn't it?

We have version-exclusives like Mantine and Skarmory, one in Gold and the other in Silver, which have mirrored stat spreads favoring Special Defense and Defense, respectively, and share things like catch rates and EXP yields. They're never mentioned in the same breath, or even found in the same area, yet they're obviously intended to be counterparts.
Click to expand...

It's not shallow at all. If anything, it's reductive to assume that what's true for one, must be true for the other without context. Version exclusives do not necessarily mean that they are pairs to the extent that the fanbase interprets them. All it is really is the fanbase assuming that there is a link between two version exclusive Pokemon, when it's simply a case of content being exclusive to one of the versions. Using EXP yield, BST, and catch rates is iffy at best because the majority of Pokemon share similar numbers and yet are not linked. Take Skarmory and Mantine for instance, you might think that there is a link because of stats, but there's nothing in common between the two. One is a Water/Flying type and the other is a Steel/Flying type. Not to mention, they're found in separate areas and have no connection to each other to the extent that other linked Pokemon do.

kirblar said:
Pinson and Scythe were mirrored in pokemon red/blue, no?
Click to expand...

And yet only one of them got an evolution. If they really were pairs, you'd think GF would give both of them (which is what some people were complaining about in the first place). It's clear that GF doesn't consider them as pairs to the extent that the fanbase does. Additionally, using lore, there's no reason to think that these two bugs in particular are linked in any way (unlike say Volbeat-Illumise, Plusle-Minun, Reshiram-Zekrom). IMO, mirrored content doesn't necessarily mean that a link is established.

True Fire said:
Version exclusive Pokemon are literally pairs in every sense of the word. The fanbase's "misguided" sense of balance comes from the fact that paired Pokemon games literally have a sense of balance.

2345467-tumblr_lhgrc7jbjj1qzxegjo1_1280.png
Click to expand...

Version exclusive Pokemon do not prove that the exclusives are linked in any way. It's an arbitrary connection made by the fanbase because they assume that patterns they noticed means that a link is de facto proven, when it really isn't. Take your photo for instance.

Out of all the version exclusives outlined, there's really only a connection with Volbeat-Illumise, Plusle-Minun, Zekrom-Reshiram, Thundurus-Tornadus. The rest are all assumptions that there's a connection just because they mirror each other, which is a reductive and asinine way of seeing it. Not to mention, it gets ridiculous when people assume intergenerational links when there's nothing to substantiate that connection (Breloom - Parasect, Mightyena - Houndoom).

Kyzer said:
Seviper and Zangoose are a good one.

Gligar and delibird not so much lol.

Yes storytelling and fanmade headcanon is cool and stuff but in the context of Gamefreak intending anything or breaking up pairs that'd hard to say really because we kinda just make it up cuz they mirror each other in some way because they make two versions of the game. Like yeah they're there but talking about them in any practical sense is useless. Its like theorizing rumors based on patterns
Click to expand...

Precisely. I can understand when there are obvious links like Reshiram and Zekrom, Zangoose and Seviper, but people lose me if they can claim that Gligar and DElibird are linked, or that Mightyena and Houndoom are linked.

You can't simply say version exclusives are pairs when there's no real definition of them as pairs. Theorizing is one thing, but theorizing and treating said theories/patterns as if they are true without any indication that GF sees it the same way is setting yourself up for disappointment. Especially when patterns don't really prove anything on their own (such as when people use BSTs to assume that there is link and disregard lore).

GiantBreadbug said:
Gonna have to push back on this a bit. Yeah, it's not good for people to expect their Pokemon observations to be upheld canonically in game, but to say there aren't less explicit pairs is kind of disingenuous. There are most certainly Pokemon that have a duality that aren't paired (sometimes this comes from the version exclusive thing).

Ultimately there's nothing wrong with fans interpreting pokemon relationships as something less explicitly defined in-game because that's what storytelling is about and it makes the games fun. I'd stop calling people (not saying you specifically, I've just seen this a lot) "OCD" and needlessly obsessed with "balance." Some people just like to interpret things in different ways, and sometimes that's okay.

I agree it's ridiculous people throw fits and become angry when TPC does stuff that conflicts with their preconceived notions and all, but golly gee it shouldn't be so odd to see Pokemon fans coming up with fan theories and ideas, because a lot of the time they hold some weight even if they aren't stated in-game.

It'd be great if Pokemon fans wouldn't fall victim to strange storytelling-groupthink, because half of the fun of Pokemon to me is seeing the ideas people come up with. Again, I'm not trying to call anyone in particular out, I'm just saying that not every fan-theory is being shouted as if it's true and sometimes people just like coming up with their own ideas of how things work in this fictional universe.
Click to expand...

I can agree with the bolded, I just don't agree with how people assume that the duality (which is a perfect way to sum it up) means that lore-wise, GF intended to connect the two when there's nothing to prove that. I mean, Skarmory - Mantine is a perfect example of how mirroring is done without really showing how the two are related. Both are walls that are physically and specially inclined respectively, but beyond that, nothing.

And I agree, there's nothing wrong with theorizing in and of itself. I just have a problem when people assume that it's a fact and completely ignore that there's nothing substantive that backs up the connection claim they've made. That's why I don't hold a lot of weight to what they're saying, because it's really just a bunch of shallow observations and immediately thinking that there's a connection because of said observations.
 
Skamory

BST: 465
HP:65
Attack: 80
Defense: 140
SpA: 40
SpD: 70
Speed: 70

Mantine

BST: 465
HP:65
SpA: 80
SpD: 140
Attack: 40
Defense: 70
Speed: 70

You're telling me these two Pokemon are not meant to be a pair and it's just something fans made up? Those stats are mirror opposites...

It took until Black 2/White 2 for there to be a game where could catch both of them in the wild. They even went so far as to have no wild Mantine in DP! A game that had a pre-evolution for Mantine (which is the only way to get Mantine in those games, you have to evolve a wild Mantyke).
 
True Fire said:
Version exclusive Pokemon are literally pairs in every sense of the word. The fanbase's "misguided" sense of balance comes from the fact that paired Pokemon games literally have a sense of balance.

2345467-tumblr_lhgrc7jbjj1qzxegjo1_1280.png
Click to expand...

I liked ORAS's exclusives.

They were colour based.

All Omega Ruby's exclusives were shades of red
All Alpha Sapphire's exclusives were shades of blue
 
Used to be able to pre-order the digital versions of the Pokemon games, can't find these anywhere for Sun/Moon. Wonder why, you would've thought it'd be available (UK).
 
A lot of people on Twitter saying that demo codes are being emailed to some Spanish members of the community. Don't think it's legit but who knows.
 
Trakan said:
New 4chan rumors:
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Could be real, but mostly looks like a guess. Fighters come in pairs, snowman was already rumored, and it's a Hawaiian themed region. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

That snowman was definitely drawn with a "How to Draw Doraemon" book at his side.
 
I'm hoping the snowman has a simple "spherical body pieces" with "black holes for eyes/mouth" look.

Basically I want them to look how snowmen did in Mario 64.
 
Forkball said:
Well a Direct is coming so...

A boxing lobster is pretty strange. The snow ghost has been in so many leaks so it's not surprising to see it again. People really love that thing. WHERE IS THE FABLED RUGBY MONKEY?
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Yeah, a boxing crab makes much more sense. :)
 
Ordinarily mainline Pokémon news doesn't appear in bog-standard Directs, but I can't imagine what they'll fill a 3DS Direct with if there isn't Pokémon news, so we'll probably get something.
 
Plus it corresponds with the whole 2 week thing, so maybe there is a chance that Ninty said "just pop your vid in our Direct, we need to kill some time".

I don't see them not mentioning SM in the direct, since it's 3DS focused...
 
JoeM86 said:
June 2012
June 2013
December 2013
November 2015

Among others
Click to expand...
OK, I'll rephrase- aside from E3 Directs, the Pokémon Company has not tended to utilise general, all-purpose Directs as an opportunity to reveal new information about upcoming mainline games. Aside from the 2013 E3 Direct, the have never utilised a Direct to show off a new Pokémon, or to announce a new game feature.
 
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