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PlayStation Meeting announced. September 7th 3PM ET (PS4 Neo Reveal)

Right before the Neo's unveil, how do you feel about the system?

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I'll be moving on Sept 1st & 2nd. Hoping to have internet setup again on the 2nd or 3rd.

Man...PlayStation Meeting is happening the middle of next week....

IaLG69W.gif
 
avaya said:
The whole thing just sounds like a disaster in the making. There is literally no need to release this. Continued price cut and software momentum with VR + network would have been enough. This is an unnecessary change in business model hoping to make margin on hardware a consistent component ARPA going forward by making it recurring. It's a cash grab and risks destabilising what is actually a very favourable market environment for them.

The fact that it will be brutalised on the spec front by the Xbox means they risk reversing the de facto platform of choice status that served them so well with the enthusiast crowd. It's just bizarre decision making all round. Especially at $499.

I can see the spreadsheet reasons for wanting to do this but what looks good on a spreadsheet doesn't play well with consumers. There is a risk of significant confusion here and this is absolutely nothing like a phone upgrade cycle, that cycles is helped tremendously by carriers enforcing contracts with incentive to upgrade at renewal date. This is nothing like that and it's fools gold.

I will still buy one.
Click to expand...

1. This is happening. Sony is not pulling out of this in the 11th hour. And without the Neo Scorpio would open up a further gulf then It already has if they stuck it out with the base mode.

2. The bolded is all they care about. If you are going to buy it then someone correctly tallied you in their spreadsheet.
 
N.Domixis said:
Using an equation I derived for calculating Tf.

Code: 
Tf = (L*W*H*k*c*pi)/(Ke*H*((cos(a)+e^n)-1)))

Assuming its 3 cm taller. Then...
c = 299792458               Speed of light in vaccum
L = .275 m                     Neos Length
W =.053 m                     Neos Width
H =.335 m                      Neos Heigth
k = 8.6173324(78)×10−5  Boltzman constant
a = 119.67                      Angle of ps4 slant in degrees
n = 4                              4th console iteration
Ke = 1                            Keggerman's Constant (Ke = 1 at sea level)
H = 1.0078;                     Atomic mass of Hydrogen present in air

Doing the calculation gives 6.18075900134 or 6.2.
So neo will have 6.2 tf if my math is correct.
Click to expand...

a should have been in radians
 
N.Domixis said:
Using an equation I derived for calculating Tf.

Code: 
Tf = (L*W*H*k*c*pi)/(Ke*H*((cos(a)+e^n)-1)))

Assuming its 3 cm taller. Then...
c = 299792458               Speed of light in vaccum
L = .275 m                     Neos Length
W =.053 m                     Neos Width
H =.335 m                      Neos Heigth
k = 8.6173324(78)×10−5  Boltzman constant
a = 119.67                      Angle of ps4 slant in degrees
n = 4                              4th console iteration
Ke = 1                            Keggerman's Constant (Ke = 1 at sea level)
H = 1.0078;                     Atomic mass of Hydrogen present in air

Doing the calculation gives 6.18075900134 or 6.2.
So neo will have 6.2 tf if my math is correct.
Click to expand...

Made me laugh by the time it got to Keggerman's Constant ahaha
 
Inuhanyou said:
The flop count is misleading. Even though Cell was a beast in crunching numbers and general power terms at the time (even today its no slouch), utilizing that complicated architecture in games was very difficult and was almost 100% never going to be fully utilized anywhere near what its theoretical max was.

Only certain parts of the CPU could actually utilize most of its full potential(the SPU's), and on top of that, third party devs and even first party devs had to also actively sacrifice CPU power to prop up the weak GPU in the PS3 to keep par with the 360's stronger GPU, because the Cell could also do a lot of GPU graphics rendering as well.

The 360's CPU, the Xenon, was much more standardized and nowhere near as ambitious as PS3's CELL design, but it was much easier to get results out of and use, and as a result most 360 third party games ran better on that machine(in addition to the RAM design and stronger GPU of course)

The Jaguar in PS4 and XB1 follows that principle as well. Its FAR easier to use than Cell ever was, and so, in combination with the general architectural efficiency of a CPU made in 2013, you actually get far better results CPU wise in gaming on Jaguar than you would during Cell's applications.

When people talk about CPU power in the 8th gen, nothing should be contrasted with CELL, as that was a weird situation on its own. Instead, the contrast should be with Xenon, as that is far more comparable. Its already been theoretically benchmarked by a dev on Trials Fusion over on Beyond3D, and apparently an 8 core jaguar clocked at 1.6GHZ is around 2.5 to 3x as fast as Xenon is in general gaming usage.

Considering both XB1 and PS4 use 7 cores at this point for gaming, they are getting pretty close to that level.
Click to expand...
http://www.7-cpu.com/

MIPS-wise the Cell is as "strong" as an Intel Atom... both CPUs are in-order, while Jaguar is OoO.

Cell PPE and Xenon are basically the same CPU. Cell is a beefed-up (SIMD-wise thanks to the SPUs) single-core Xenon. Xenon is 3x PPE.

Inuhanyou said:
Jeff...is that you

*edit*

your right that they would need a chip, but it would have to be the Cell chip specifically, there is no other fixed function unit that could possibly emulate PS3 right now, especially in NEO's price bracket.
Click to expand...
I think he means recompiling/translating PPE/PPC code to x86-64 code and SPUs SIMD code to the GPGPU equivalent.
 
Genuinely curious, I'm not dev-smart: Without having been a developer of the game, is it possible to know whether or not Bloodborne would be possible on Neo with it's current resolution but at 60 fps? Lots of cpu talk here.

Second question: If it's not possible, is something between 30-45 fps something that still would be a noticeable improvement over the original? Would this be an increase in how pleasant the game plays?
 
Mikey Jr. said:
I'm skipping class to go home and watch this.

Fuck it.
Click to expand...

Shit, I almost feel like skipping our annual co-worker party at Dogfish Head. We are taking over a water park for a day and go wild there, but I'm so hyped about the Playstation meeting and Neo announcement... What to do Gaf?
 
tapantaola said:
http://www.7-cpu.com/

MIPS-wise the Cell is as "strong" as an Intel Atom... both CPUs are in-order, while Jaguar is OoO.

Cell PPE and Xenon are basically the same CPU. Cell is a beefed-up (SIMD-wise thanks to the SPUs) single-core Xenon. Xenon is 3x PPE.


I think he means recompiling/translating PPE/PPC code to x86-64 code and SPUs SIMD code to the GPGPU equivalent.
Click to expand...

Would this patent by Sony go towards that?
Processor emulation using fragment level translation
US 8433555 B2
http://www.google.co.uk/patents/US8433555


I'm not very knowledgeable on emulation stuff, but I remember patents before about emulating the SPE's and PPU of the PS3, so I don't know if any of this is relevant.

Just throwing this out there.
 
sviri said:
Genuinely curious, I'm not dev-smart: Without having been a developer of the game, is it possible to know whether or not not Bloodborne would be possible on Neo with it's current resolution but at 60 fps? Lots of cpu talk here.

Second question: If it's not possible, is something between 30-45 fps something that still would be a noticeable improvement over the original? Would this be an increase in how pleasant the game plays?
Click to expand...
IIRC, the Souls game engine is not multi-threaded, which means that a higher IPC is more important.

That's why Dark Souls 3 doesn't run very well on AMD hardware, while it runs better on Intel CPUs.

The PS4 Neo rumors say that it will have the same Jaguar CPU with a 30% upclock, so it's unlikely to hit 60fps without major code restructuring...
 
StrongBlackVine said:
1080/30fps with all types of cutbacks, tricks and sacrifices to achieve it and we are still left with unstable framerates in many games on top of that.
Click to expand...

That's true, but I think 4.2TF could do more than just bring a stable and slightly prettier 1080p game at 30fps.

i expect higher resolutions tbh.
 
Danlord said:
Would this patent by Sony go towards that?
Processor emulation using fragment level translation
US 8433555 B2
http://www.google.co.uk/patents/US8433555


I'm not very knowledgeable on emulation stuff, but I remember patents before about emulating the SPE's and PPU of the PS3, so I don't know if any of this is relevant.

Just throwing this out there.
Click to expand...

This is from 2007 so its more likely related to emulating the PS2 than PS3.

Mikey Jr. said:
I'm skipping class to go home and watch this.

Fuck it.
Click to expand...

There's stuff from work I can't miss right up until the conference, so I'm going to work but taking leave for the last couple hours, so I can rush to my car and watch it on my phone. xD
 
Hexa said:
This is from 2007 so its more likely related to emulating the PS2 than PS3.



There's stuff from work I can't miss right up until the conference, so I'm going to work but taking leave for the last couple hours, so I can rush to my car and watch it on my phone. xD
Click to expand...

Ah right. Well it has references to the Cell, hence why I thought it might be relevant but I guess they could just be using it as an example for the patent description rather than specific use-case.

In embodiments of the present invention, the target system 100 may be emulated using a parallel processing host system 200 so that the host system 200 can run programs written in code native to the target system 100 such as target program 118. FIG. 4 depicts an example of a host system 200 based on a cell processor 201 that may be configured to emulate the target system 100. An example of a cell processor is described in detail, e.g., in Cell Broadband Engine Architecture, copyright International Business Machines Corporation, Sony Computer Entertainment Incorporated, Toshiba Corporation Aug. 8, 2005 a copy of which may be downloaded at http://cell.scei.co.jp/, the entire contents of which are incorporated herein by reference.

The cell processor 201 may include a main memory 202, a single power processor element (PPE) 204 and eight synergistic processor elements (SPE) 206. However, the cell processor 201 may be configured with more than one PPE and any number of SPE's. Each SPE 206 includes a synergistic processor unit (SPU) and a local store (LS). The memory 202, PPE 204, and SPEs 206 may communicate with each other and with an I/O device 208 over a ring-type element interconnect bus (EIB) 210. The I/O device 208 may communicate with the EIB 210 via a bus interface controller (BIC). The PPE 204 and SPEs 206 can access the EIB 210 through bus interface units (BIU). The PPE 204 and SPEs 206 can access the main memory 202 over the EIB 210 through memory flow controllers (MFC).
Click to expand...
 
All this talk of not missing it... I'll be in work BUT it's a super quiet shop and I can basically go on my phone. Signal might be poor though. This happens about 8pm UK time and I'll be home just after 10pm... so I might just go on a blackout, rush home and watch this. Hopefully someone can let us know the livestream address for bookmarking so I don't need to navigate the net too much looking for it and inevitably be spoiled along the way!
 
I'm undoubtedly getting a scorpio over a neo, but give me a slim at $250 and i'm so in.

still looking forward to the neo revealing, though. it'll be interesting to see the difference between games.
 
I'm supposed to have an astronomy lab Wednesdays from 1:30-4:20... But for some reason, if one day of class is cancelled, they cancel labs for the whole week. Monday is Labor Day. No lab, PS Meeting Live Stream, meant to be.
 
Having watched the FFVII Remake trailer again, I'd kill to see it running on Neo. Even better is if they have footage ready for the Sep. 7 event.
 
can someone summarize what we know so far? haven't been keeping up with the thread :(

Frag Waffles said:
Any idea how long this briefing may run? I'm hoping to catch the whole thing on my hour lunch break
Click to expand...

I can't imagine it being more than 1hr. PS4 Slim is literally PS4 in smaller package, so 5min on that tops. It will all be Neo and VR I guess.
 
Danlord said:
Ah right. Well it has references to the Cell, hence why I thought it might be relevant but I guess they could just be using it as an example for the patent description rather than specific use-case.
Click to expand...

It's a patent related to the techniques they used to get PS2 emulation on PS3.

Target System 100 is PS2.
By way of example FIG. 3A depicts a block diagram of an example of a target system 100 in the form of a game console device, a Sony Playstation®2.
Click to expand...

So reread this part with that in mind:
In embodiments of the present invention, the target system 100 may be emulated using a parallel processing host system 200 so that the host system 200 can run programs written in code native to the target system 100 such as target program 118. FIG. 4 depicts an example of a host system 200 based on a cell processor 201 that may be configured to emulate the target system 100.
Click to expand...
 
Hexa said:
It's a patent for the techniques they used to get PS2 emulation on PS3.

Target System 100 is PS2.


So reread this part with that in mind:
In embodiments of the present invention, the target system 100 may be emulated using a parallel processing host system 200 so that the host system 200 can run programs written in code native to the target system 100 such as target program 118. FIG. 4 depicts an example of a host system 200 based on a cell processor 201 that may be configured to emulate the target system 100.
Click to expand...

Yeah I understand, thanks. I don't know much about emulation/patents enough to get through them myself and I only had a faint idea of what to search for since I don't remember too much from a past GAF thread about emulation.


It's a nice pipe-dream to be able to have native PS3 emulation but it's just that. I don't see Sony allowing it on Neo even if if was possible, as their strategy seems to only allow improved functionality rather than exclusive. So games can't be PSVR exclusive they can just be improved. No exclusive DLC or save-data too. So if Neo could emulate PS3, unless they have a change of policy I don't see them implementing it in the regular PS4.
 
N.Domixis said:
Using an equation I derived for calculating Tf.

Code: 
Tf = (L*W*H*k*c*pi)/(Ke*H*((cos(a)+e^n)-1)))

Assuming its 3 cm taller. Then...
c = 299792458               Speed of light in vaccum
L = .275 m                     Neos Length
W =.053 m                     Neos Width
H =.335 m                      Neos Heigth
k = 8.6173324(78)×10−5  Boltzman constant
a = 119.67                      Angle of ps4 slant in degrees
n = 4                              4th console iteration
Ke = 1                            Keggerman's Constant (Ke = 1 at sea level)
H = 1.0078;                     Atomic mass of Hydrogen present in air

Doing the calculation gives 6.18075900134 or 6.2.
So neo will have 6.2 tf if my math is correct.
Click to expand...

You forgot to incorporate the Neo's weight in your formula. With that considered, it should be closer to 7.5.
 
Excited friends!

Hoping a tad more hp than 4.2tf and more cpu and ram but understand it'll be much more $.

Hoping $400 for 500gb with 4.4tf, 12gb ram.
 
THE:MILKMAN said:
Yep. I just can't see Sony handing out dev kits in June/July with specs that match both the docs from March (I found the docs in mid July) and the dev kit tested by MIC in December 2015 to then magic a more powerful system out of nowhere that devs haven't even heard about.

Even if by some miracle Sony did have a more powerful system would they go to the lengths of keeping it secret even from devs just for the surprise? Also would mean any devs that have completed the Neo mode or patch would have to start again for this more powerful (5.5TF) and different CPU (Zen) system.

I'll be very happy to be wrong, though.
Click to expand...
...

There's a sense of finality when everything is laid out like this.

I suppose I'll temper my expectations going into the NEO reveal.

There's simply too much logic in your post to ignore.
 
orochi91 said:
...

There's a sense of finality when everything is laid out like this.

I suppose I'll temper my expectations going into the NEO reveal.

There's simply too much logic in your post to ignore.
Click to expand...

I'll continue being "delusional" until the reveal just like I think Georgia has chance to win a national championship in college football before that first(then second) loss of the season. The Neo reveal will be no where near as crushing though.
 
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