Nintendo and the third parties, again.

Simple answer is, they don't want Nintendo to be top dog. That's Nintendo and non Nintendo fans. The fact an actual fan champions 3rd place, is disheartening to say the least. The Wii, was both good and bad for Nintendo. They made crazy money off of it, but it set up the failure of the WiiU. A large portion of Wii owners weren't generational gamers.
 
Rhazer Fusion said:
Sadly, that seems to be the mentality of most Nintendo owner which in actuality translates into the reason why third party games do not sell on Nintendo consoles. Even if third party games are not embraced by the majority of Nintendo owners, third and first party efforts are generally required for true mainstream success especially against such stiff competition. The entire, we are fine with being second and third place/do not need third parties psychology is what gets Nintendo in trouble repeatedly, but then again recovering lost ground from third parties will be the largest challenge for the NX.
Click to expand...

To be honest I've usually supported games from third parties on Nintendo even bought Rodea, etc. Games like the Tales series and Soul Calibur sold like hotcakes on GC till Namco Bandai decided to shut off the audience. I still support the few Third Parties that come to Nintendo, but only if their games are quality. After owning a non-Nintendo/Sega console for a generation and seeing their output in this generation, I really don't feel like I'm missing out on anything, and anything I want, I can get on Steam except for KOFXIV, which I assume is coming soon. Sonic Project 2017 coming to NX has already guaranteed a buy from me.
 
First, I feel like we need to clarify what people really mean by AAA games? Looking at the NPD definition of "core" genres of games are: Action, Adventure, Fighting, MMOs, Racing and Real-Time Strategy, RPG and Shooter, Sports. So, out of those "core" genres Nintendo have it hats in Action, Adventure, Fighting, Racing Real-Time Strategy, RPGs and (arcade-like toon and/or motion control) Sports. So, at a bare minimum, the "Nintendo's audience", in theory, should support those type of gaming experiences. The question is how often did third party publishers actually pushed those experiences to "Nintendo's audience" and market them effectively.

For example, let us look at GTA: Chinatown wars on the DS. Why was that game even created? It was a 2D top down old school version of GTA while the 3D version GTA what was propelled it to the mainstream. Yet, 3D versions of GTA appeared on the iPhone 3GS of all places? BTW, the investment in GTA Chinatown Wars was very minimum (a team of 12 people worked on the game for two years). In spite of this, there haven't been a 3D GTA on any Nintendo system.... So, is the GTA audience only on Sony, Microsoft and PC platforms? Does the entirely of the GTA audience consist of just "core" gamers or is it mixture and if it is a mixture why couldn't GTA, at a bare minimum, appear on Wii yet a 3D version appeared on the PSP?

Or in the case of Ubisoft, with the success it had with the Wii and DS on it's lower cost shovel-ware, used those profits to fund the development of PS3 and 360 games. Yet, all I see is that Nintendo was wrong to chase the casuals during the Wii era and that third parties didn't sale at all on the Wii. Yet, when reading those past article, often the mention of quality of said titles with bad sales is completely neglected. Nor do see mentions of the fail games on the PS3 and Xbox 360 were due to Sony's and Microsoft's audience.

Better yet, when success was found on Nintendo's platform the follow up isn't even there. EA had really good success with motion control sport games like Tiger Wood's golf games on the Wii. Why couldn't they follow up on that success at a bare minimum on the Wii U? Heck, the Need for Speed series sold really well on the GameCube.

Given that the Wii U sold poorly, (thus a lot of games sold poor due to the size of the install base) what other Nintendo system actually receive an AAA game from a Western publisher and receive AAA levels marketing and hype?

In short, Nintendo third party situation isn't clearly based on just sales or hardware power. The evidence is quite muddled given the lack of sales/marketing/budget data from third party publishers. It doesn't help that third parties seemly push there titles to fullest extent on Sony's and Microsoft's platform. When was the last time any major western publisher didn't have an half hearted attempt when it came to Nintendo's platform?
 
NX tablet wont be able to run games like Dark Souls 3 or GTA6. Elder scrolls 6 anything, Man Nintendo..Why did you have to go and make a bloody tablet for a console? ;______; On the good side, it will run Minecraft, there is that.
 
Real talk though, if Nintendo did release a platform that could run the latest and greatest third party games on par with the other 2, it would be the only hardware I'd need
 
You buy Nintendo systems to play Nintendo games. This is Nintendo's strategy these days. You buy Sony or Microsoft's system if you want GTA and AAA games and you buy Nintendo's system as a companion device if you want Mario and Zelda. That's their gimmick and it won't last much longer.
 
Depends what the nx is. If it's in the price range of a handheld and they get a big install base, they will get tons of third party devs
 
LiquidSolid said:
The problem is there clearly aren't enough of those people to actually make it appealing to third parties. They've TRIED to support Nintendo systems numerous times but even back on the Gamecube, sales weren't great and that support eventually dried up. The idea that Nintendo systems would do amazingly if they had Nintendo games AND big third party games is a myth.



Nintendo's royalties doesn't cover the cost of manufacturing (same goes for Sony and Microsoft). The cartridges/game cards/disc cost is separate.
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What AAA games were on the GameCube? The GameCube did get support from the major publishers at the time (like EA Games and Activation) in the terms of multi-platform support. However, apart from Resident Evil 4 (which Capcom undermined due to them saying PS2 was on the way before the GameCube version even launched!), what AAA generation 6 title was on the GameCube units? Heck even the Xbox got the 3D GTA games...When there was AA exclusive like Tales of Symphonia, how did publishers follow up with that success? Just looking at Wikipedia, the third party games that sold well were more arcade-like vs FPS/Sport-Sim Xbox focus.
 
As of now, no one should expect any kind of massive change with regards to major western third party support.
 
My only hope is that we get somewhat of a repeat of Wii U at launch, but this time the games aren't destined to fail and actually do okay, leading to gradually increasing support over the lifespan of the system. That'd be enough for me, since change would have to be gradual anyway.

I expect Japanese support to be better than Wii U, though, since if this really does replace 3DS in Japan, we could get something a bit closer to 3DS than Wii U in terms of output and support. But it has to succeed first. *fingers crossed*
 
Yes, it's an issue. Yes, it should be fixed.

No, at this point in time it can't be fixed unless Nintendo starts throwing huge bags of money around to get those games. And even then it might not help, as the majority already has a PC/PS4/Xone to play those games on, so they would need one hell of a killer marketing campain to make any kind of dent in the market. They'd need to spend more money than they have for some unpredictable result that might not even help very much.
 
Honestly, as long as the NX has the same third party support that the 3DS has, the NX will do just fine. It doesn't need Call of Battlefield V to be successful. If it's a decent system for less, I think more of the core audience than we think won't mind having it as a second system.

Leaving the Wii brand is already going to get a lot of attention for the casual audience as well, as it'll be an ENTIRELY new system.
 
If Sony does not make another handheld, a good part of the japanese third party games will necessarily go on the NX, as it will be the only real option for them.
 
ramparter said:
Yeah. People seem to confuse third party with third party AAA. DS and 3DS had some really good third party games and I expect to see many of them on NX.
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A hybrid for handheld gamers, it just doesn't scream success to me. I wonder how Nintendo is going market the Frankenstein handheld hybrid.
 
Why is everybody talking here about western third party support?

I'd have been happy if the Wii U got any bigger japanese games, like SFIV or similar.

It's not only western games, Nintendo home consoles were also severely lacking in japanese AAA support.
 
OP. For third parties to be relevant for Nintendo they need 3 things.

1. Nintendo needs to get all major 3rd party engines running on their console with effective documentation so that it's easy to port games.
2. Nintendo need to get EA on board. FIFA and Madden are the two most important 3rd party games on any platform.
3. Nintendo needs to create a large and active install base that is too big for 3rd partys to ignore.

In reverse.
3rd parties need to realise that people who own Nintendo games are used to polished unbroken experiences. If your game is buggy and requires constant patches it won't fly with nintendos audience.

3rd Parties need to realise that only a small section of the population likes "Bro Shooters" Nintendo games have a large diverse audience who want a bredth of experiences.

3rd parties need to realise that you can't release a bad game with great graphics to a Nintendo audience. The Nintendo audience is accustomed to gameplay being the most important thing
 
Dark Cloud said:
You're right. I should've said better than Wii U.
Click to expand...

I think ultimately that comes down to how NX performs in the market and how software performs. If NX gets a few ports at launch and they perform well we'll continue to get more, which would already be better than Wii U.
 
Malakai said:
What AAA games were on the GameCube? The GameCube did get support from the major publishers at the time (like EA Games and Activation) in the terms of multi-platform support. However, apart from Resident Evil 4 (which Capcom undermined due to them saying PS2 was on the way before the GameCube version even launched!), what AAA generation 6 title was on the GameCube units? Heck even the Xbox got the 3D GTA games...When there was AA exclusive like Tales of Symphonia, how did publishers follow up with that success? Just looking at Wikipedia, the third party games that sold well were more arcade-like vs FPS/Sport-Sim Xbox focus.
Click to expand...
So aside from EA and Activision, the Gamecube didn't get any AAA games? What? Even if that weren't contradictory, did you forget Ubisoft? Eidos? Sega? I owned a Gamecube, it was obviously no PS2 or even oXbox but there were still plenty of AAA games on it and it was an improvement on the N64. But as I mentioned earlier, that support started drying up mid-gen. Tomb Raider Legend came out on GC but no Anniversary, etc.

As for RE4 and Tales, those were pretty understandable actually. Announcing the PS2 version before the GC release was a consumer friendly move, the fanboy backlash to that was cringeworthy. And Tales of Symphonia wasn't a success in the only region Namco gave a crap about.
 
I remember caring about Nintendo's third party support. It was mostly centered around the N64, say 1996 to 2001, give or take a few years.

In the SNES era, many third parties dumped Nintendo because they wanted to get away from Nintendo's shit, and Nintendo didn't have 95% marketshare to lean on anymore. In the N64 era, Nintendo's shit got huge. As the GameCube started up, I fell for the lie that Nintendo had learned their lesson and they were trying to do better, but eventually you have to admit that Nintendo fucks things up for their own selfish ends, and it's ridiculous to blame third parties for not falling on their swords to keep up the illusion that Nintendo cares about you. Nintendo is not owed anyone's support, they have to earn it, but they've built a lifetime of doing the opposite.

The PSX was a damn fine console, and it deserved to become a third party darling and spank the N64. The PS2 was also a damn fine console. The GameCube was a halfhearted attempt, at best. The original XBox tried harder than GameCube-era Nintendo did. Wii had it's unique appeal
(fad)
, but the industry had moved on to HD. Nintendo's "not enough people have HD to make it worthwhile" rang false to anyone with an HDTV. The Wii U was a tacky gimmick that nobody wanted, not even Nintendo's first party studios, as justification for "we really learned our lesson this time" Nintendo to try and win the industry again on the back of another last-gen console.

And Nintendo fucks up because they can fuck up. They know that they're sitting on one of the finest videogame studios in the world. That means they can play it safe. It means they can win without trying, and trying is risky/less profitable. Nintendo vs The Entire Videogame Industry isn't a problem with The Entire Videogame Industry, it's squarely a problem with Nintendo.

Give up on the dream of a third party friendly Nintendo. No amount of willing it with your mind can make Nintendo make all the right moves to make that happen. Use history as an indication, it's not going to happen, even if Nintendo says it is. They've said that before, time and time again. Brace yourself for an NX that has even worse third party support than Wii U did (it can always get worse, and there were plenty of people who believed in Nintendo's Wii U third party strategy, and got burned). Rely on the things you know you can expect, which are Nintendo's first party games. Expect more exclusive partnerships which blur the line between a moneyhatted third party game and an outsourced first party game (Nintendo seems to want to gather enough exclusives to become an island unto themselves). Expect a style of games that caters to the market that eats up Nintendo's first party games and rejects third party games.
 
Cheerilee said:
I remember caring about Nintendo's third party support. It was mostly centered around the N64, say 1996 to 2001, give or take a few years.

In the SNES era, many third parties dumped Nintendo because they wanted to get away from Nintendo's shit, and Nintendo didn't have 95% marketshare to lean on anymore. In the N64 era, Nintendo's shit got huge. As the GameCube started up, I fell for the lie that Nintendo had learned their lesson and they were trying to do better, but eventually you have to admit that Nintendo fucks things up for their own selfish ends, and it's ridiculous to blame third parties for not falling on their swords to keep up the illusion that Nintendo cares about you. Nintendo is not owed anyone's support, they have to earn it, but they've built a lifetime of doing the opposite.

The PSX was a damn fine console, and it deserved to become a third party darling and spank the N64. The PS2 was also a damn fine console. The GameCube was a halfhearted attempt, at best. The original XBox tried harder than GameCube-era Nintendo did. Wii had it's unique appeal
(fad)
, but the industry had moved on to HD. Nintendo's "not enough people have HD to make it worthwhile" rang false to anyone with an HDTV. The Wii U was a tacky gimmick that nobody wanted, not even Nintendo's first party studios, as justification for "we really learned our lesson this time" Nintendo to try and win the industry again on the back of another last-gen console.

And Nintendo fucks up because they can fuck up. They know that they're sitting on one of the finest videogame studios in the world. That means they can play it safe. It means they can win without trying, and trying is risky/less profitable. Nintendo vs The Entire Videogame Industry isn't a problem with The Entire Videogame Industry, it's squarely a problem with Nintendo.

Give up on the dream of a third party friendly Nintendo. No amount of willing it with your mind can make Nintendo make all the right moves to make that happen. Use history as an indication, it's not going to happen, even if Nintendo says it is. They've said that before, time and time again. Brace yourself for an NX that has even worse third party support than Wii U did (it can always get worse, and there were plenty of people who believed in Nintendo's Wii U third party strategy, and got burned). Rely on the things you know you can expect, which are Nintendo's first party games. Expect more exclusive partnerships which blur the line between a moneyhatted third party game and an outsourced first party game (Nintendo seems to want to gather enough exclusives to become an island unto themselves). Expect a style of games that caters to the market that eats up Nintendo's first party games and rejects third party games.
Click to expand...

You have touched me <3
 
I guess this post is more relevant here, so I'll copy what I wrote in one of the NX threads.

It's a damn vicious circle.

Most western 3rd party games don't sell well on Nintendo consoles. Last Nintendo console sold like shit. Handheld market was not very friendly with western 3rd parties until now. The excuses for all these are irrelevant, we're talking here about financial decisions, not gamers wanting things. So no western 3rd party will decide to put any serious money behind a port for Nintendo before they get some guarantees (install basis big enough to care, sales no. for smaller titles that they try on it etc.).

If Nintendo manages to make NX successful on their own maybe then 3rd parties will look into it and maybe decide to try again, but it's also depending on the audience that NX will get and their buying habits.

Japanese 3rd parties and games like Lego and Skylanders are a different story.
 
My entire thing about major third party AAA on Nintendo.

Could it make me choose a Nintendo platform as my primary to play it on? No.

First comes PC, second (if at all) comes Playstation. Having the big third party titles just gives me a bigger catalogue to not spend money on.

I expect Nintendo to be unique and distinct in their catalogue, it is what I need from the system. I don't want an also ran in the console power race between Sony and Microsoft.
 
Widge said:
My entire thing about major third party AAA on Nintendo.

Could it make me choose a Nintendo platform as my primary to play it on? No.

First comes PC, second (if at all) comes Playstation. Having the big third party titles just gives me a bigger catalogue to not spend money on.

I expect Nintendo to be unique and distinct in their catalogue, it is what I need from the system. I don't want an also ran in the console power race between Sony and Microsoft.
Click to expand...

If the NX flops like a fish out of water, what is Nintendo course of action?
 
OG_Original Gamer said:
If the NX flops like a fish out of water, what is Nintendo course of action?
Click to expand...

I think trying to compete with Sony and Microsoft would be the death knell.

Even if they get a comparable platform in terms of power, they still have to battle against mentalities where people prefer certain community ecosystems, where they have their digital purchases, where they have a preferred controller. It's a huge head start to overcome. I firmly believe that a lot of this is why Sony managed to hang in so well last gen (introducing PSN+ and a constant stream of "ok" unique titles) and Microsoft hanging in this gen.

Their step to seemingly consolidate handheld and home into one machine is a bold one. WiiU was one take on that, attempting to make a DS like system but for the home, and this is coming at that from a different angle. Hopefully it will play out better for them in dev cycles.

Whether this works or not, really impossible to call.

For me, I have to justify spending hundreds on a machine vs. spending hundreds on my existing machine. I've admired the WiiU catalogue from afar though and would love to have it as a second machine, way ahead of what Sony and Microsoft offer. The NX's portability could be a major tipping point as it brings the gaming out of the single room being dominated by my PC.

If they flop, they can only hope at capturing the mass market magic that the Wii did. The enthusiast one is lost to them.
 
Nintendo used to have a plethora of 3rd party games with the GC, N64 and Wii. But not on WiiU, which to be fair it needed 3rd party to keep it going during the droughts. Can definetly feel the droughts this generation with Ninty.

For the NX, they'll need a flow of 3rd party games. Because i can feel something similar happening again with NX as has occured with WiiU if 3rd party devs miss out the NX.
 
Jacknapes said:
Nintendo used to have a plethora of 3rd party games with the GC, N64 and Wii. But not on WiiU, which to be fair it needed 3rd party to keep it going during the droughts. Can definetly feel the droughts this generation with Ninty.

For the NX, they'll need a flow of 3rd party games. Because i can feel something similar happening again with NX as has occured with WiiU if 3rd party devs miss out the NX.
Click to expand...

It's not going to be the same because all of Nintendos devs are focused on one system instead of two. It's going to have a plethora more of Nintendo games. For third party devs to jump on it has to sell very well like the Wii.

Think of the NX as a better Wii. It's designed for casuals, but will have lots more Nintendo games.
 
Widge said:
I think trying to compete with Sony and Microsoft would be the death knell.

Even if they get a comparable platform in terms of power, they still have to battle against mentalities where people prefer certain community ecosystems, where they have their digital purchases, where they have a preferred controller. It's a huge head start to overcome. I firmly believe that a lot of this is why Sony managed to hang in so well last gen (introducing PSN+ and a constant stream of "ok" unique titles) and Microsoft hanging in this gen.

Their step to seemingly consolidate handheld and home into one machine is a bold one. WiiU was one take on that, attempting to make a DS like system but for the home, and this is coming at that from a different angle. Hopefully it will play out better for them in dev cycles.

Whether this works or not, really impossible to call.

For me, I have to justify spending hundreds on a machine vs. spending hundreds on my existing machine. I've admired the WiiU catalogue from afar though and would love to have it as a second machine, way ahead of what Sony and Microsoft offer. The NX's portability could be a major tipping point as it brings the gaming out of the single room being dominated by my PC.

If they flop, they can only hope at capturing the mass market magic that the Wii did. The enthusiast one is lost to them.
Click to expand...

Most have to justify their purchase, but generation after generation has Nintendo losing gamers. I may be one of them and I've been with Nintendo since the NES. The way I see it, any console that has the Nintendo logo and games exclusive to it makes it unique. Your guaranteed to get what Nintendo creates, and experience what others create. Some of the most iconic brands belong to Nintendo.

Nintendo focusing on maintaining 3rd place is a definite way to end up pushed out of the home console market.
 
DecoReturns said:
A lot of Nintendo threads lately.

Perhaps we should wait a bit. Well by now the Thrid Party games have been decided for launch so...who knows.
Click to expand...

It looks like the amount of Nintendo threads we have now will exceed the amount of NX sold in the first year.
 
jdstorm said:
3rd parties need to realise that you can't release a bad game with great graphics to a Nintendo audience. The Nintendo audience is accustomed to gameplay being the most important thing
Click to expand...

You mean the audience that couldn't figure out how to make "Metroid" move past a barrier?
 
Not only are we going to see the same kind of 3rd party games that appeared on 3DS appearing on NX, but I reckon we will be seeing a higher frequency of 1st party titles launching as well, after all, Nintendo will only be working in one ecosystem now. We're not going to be seeing a lot of XBone / PS4 ports, and that doesn't really matter.
 
As mainly a PC gamer nowadays, who is mostly interested in Nintendo titles on consoles for obvious reasons. I don't personally need them to have 3rd party support. But ofcourse as a long time Nintendo fan. I hope they would have it, just to boost hardware sales to make NX a commercial success.
 
jaxapollo said:
Logic? In a Nintendoomed thread?
Click to expand...

the only people who bring up the word "doomed" are you guys who think any criticism of Nintendo is saying they are doomed.

no one says that. ever. no one thinks they are going out of business. no one thinks they will disappear.

but by all means spam that clock gif or whatever, god forbid one should engage with the argument.

as for 3rd parties - do we forget that the healthier the ecosystem, the more royalties it generates? of course they should go after western 3rd parties. by Nintendo's own reckoning the cube and the U were failures - they don't want another situation like those.
 
OG_Original Gamer said:
If the NX flops like a fish out of water, what is Nintendo course of action?
Click to expand...

Put out a PC storefront/ecosystem like Blizzard's Battle.net and EA Origin so they can sell games without making hardware or paying a cut to Steam or others? Put out a PS now like streaming derive for their old games? Or maybe all games, instead of having a storefront, since theirs aren't as big and would be easier to stream than the AAA stuff on the other platforms? Double down on mobile? Along with Amiibo, theme parks, merchandising, tv shows and movies etc to provide other revenue streams.

I don't think NX will flop, but if it does they're hardly doomed or forced to go full third party. Gaming will be all digital and streaming based with processing in the cloud eventually. They just have to ride it out to that point when dedicated gaming consoles are a thing of the past and we just have PS Now like apps for different publishers not into our TVs, Tivos etc.
 
felipepl said:
At this point in time, who cares.
Click to expand...

Agreed 100%. There is no point at all in AssCreed, Madden, CoD, etc appearing on NX. No one is going to take Nintendo seriously as a potential single console of the home aside from the die hard fans, and those people have spent the last 10 years convincing themselves that only Nintendo games are fun.
 
Sure, everybody might not be able to buy a Nintendo console and another one. The thing is, most people are going to get their main system first, whether that be Xbox One, PC, or PS4 - where all the multiplats are. The best example I have is the Wii U early on. Had nearly every major multiplat and guess what? Nobody bought them for the Wii U because nobody buys multiplats on Nintendo consoles. It's been that way since the GameCube era.
 
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