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PlayStation Meeting announced. September 7th 3PM ET (PS4 Neo Reveal)

Right before the Neo's unveil, how do you feel about the system?


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This is a big change for consoles. We're about to be in a place where console gamers will have to consider upgrades. If someone prefers a PC to that, where you'll have more control over hardware and software upgrades, then how does it not make sense?

I guess i don't see it as a big change since a upgrade does not really matter that much .
It don't change the consoles eco system , what you can do with software or hardware etc etc .
It's either you buy or not and wait for PS5 .
 
This is a big change for consoles. We're about to be in a place where console gamers will have to consider upgrades. If someone prefers a PC to that, where you'll have more control over hardware and software upgrades, then how does it not make sense?
I can't speak for him, but to me I think you're misconstruing how disruptive this is. PC upgrades have been a viable path for decades now. If someone has explicitly chosen to go with consoles instead, I don't see where Neo necessarily changes much. They can still stick with original PS4 and have the experience they always did. Or Neo gives them the chance to grab a little taste of PC benefits--more up-to-date visuals--while avoiding all the other traits that have previously put them off. The PC ecosystem has gained no advantages, so why would it make sense to switch if it didn't before?
 
PS4 was 399 not 499

Sony didn't undercut MS based on the pricing MS set. That was just MS being really, really damn stupid and valuing their console as if it was offering some tremendous value to gamers when it remotely wasn't.

The PS4 launched at $399. It's now at $349 with a great value of a game bundled in. 3 years later.

Given that, the likely scenario is that PS4 Slim will be $299 with a game bundled.
 
I can't speak for him, but to me I think you're misconstruing how disruptive this is. PC upgrades have been a viable path for decades now. If someone has explicitly chosen to go with consoles instead, I don't see where Neo necessarily changes much. They can still stick with original PS4 and have the experience they always did. Or Neo gives them the chance to grab a little taste of PC benefits--more up-to-date visuals--while avoiding all the other traits that have previously put them off. The PC ecosystem has gained no advantages, so why would it make sense to switch if it didn't before?

Yep you said it in a better way .
Upgrades have been around for every else for decades .
It even happen sometimes on consoles but fail .
But this upgrade not going to be that disruptive to consoles or the reason why most people buy them .
 
I'm not saying remove profits and operate in loss, just minimise them to undercut the competition which should be possible given it won't have an expensive 4K player in it.
They don't need to do that. One of the main issue of the PS3 was that even the slim was losing money for a while because it did not scale correctly in size in comparison to price. One of the main design philosophies for the PS4 is to scale the PS4 while maintaining profitability. You don't seem to understand price elasticity and market demands. The PS4 is selling greatly at this price, and reducing the price by 50$ is a sane and logical move to maintain profitability and maneuverability at pricing it in the future.
 
Upgrades have been around for every else for decades. It even happen sometimes on consoles but fail.
The earliest console upgrade I know of is the 2600 Supercharger. It was a third-party device (!) that let you load bigger, better-looking games off cassette tapes instead of carts. They weren't particularly great, but I don't know that the device itself was a failure. It just got killed by the '83 crash like everything else.
 
I guess i don't see it as a big change since a upgrade does not really matter that much .
It don't change the consoles eco system , what you can do with software or hardware etc etc .
It's either you buy or not and wait for PS5 .

I can't speak for him, but to me I think you're misconstruing how disruptive this is. PC upgrades have been a viable path for decades now. If someone has explicitly chosen to go with consoles instead, I don't see where Neo necessarily changes much. They can still stick with original PS4 and have the experience they always did. Or Neo gives them the chance to grab a little taste of PC benefits--more up-to-date visuals--while avoiding all the other traits that have previously put them off. The PC ecosystem has gained no advantages, so why would it make sense to switch if it didn't before?

It furthers consoles into trying to be PCs without any of the PC advantages. For a lot of people it makes sense just to get an actual PC. Even Sony has listed competing with PC as a key reason for making Neo. For people considering both it makes sense to go PC due to the amount of control you'll have in that iterative ecosystem. I don't see how it doesn't make sense.
 
PS4:
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NEO:






;(

ouch
 
It furthers consoles into trying to be PCs without any of the PC advantages. For a lot of people it makes sense just to get an actual Even Sony has listed competing with PC as a key reason for making Neo. For people considering both it makes sense to go PC due to the amount of control you'll have in that iterative ecosystem. I don't see how it doesn't make sense.

It definitely makes sense.

However, from a console user perspective, the iterative console has benefits that PC's don't. Mainly, it still functions like a console. You start up a game and you play. Now with better graphics and so on.
 
It furthers consoles into trying to be PCs without any of the PC advantages. For a lot of people it makes sense just to get an actual Even Sony has listed competing with PC as a key reason for making Neo. For people considering both it makes sense to go PC due to the amount of control you'll have in that iterative ecosystem. I don't see how it doesn't make sense.

It not consoles trying to become like PC it consoles trying to become like everything else.
Sony list competing with PC because Sony notice waiting so many years for upgrade is nonsense .
Nothing else waits 6 to 9 years before they bring out another product \ better version .

The earliest console upgrade I know of is the 2600 Supercharger. It was a third-party device (!) that let you load bigger, better-looking games off cassette tapes instead of carts. They weren't particularly great, but I don't know that the device itself was a failure. It just got killed by the '83 crash like everything else.

Well i was talking more about Sega 32x , SS ram cart , N64 Expansion Pak .
Still i guess you can't call them upgrades but add ons now that i think about it .
 
It definitely makes sense.

However, from a console user perspective, the iterative console has benefits that PC's don't. Mainly, it still functions like a console. You start up a game and you play. Now with better graphics and so on.

Oh yeah I'm not denying that. I just don't see why some treat the idea of switching to PC because of the new consoles as a crazy idea.
 
It furthers consoles into trying to be PCs without any of the PC advantages. For a lot of people it makes sense just to get an actual Even Sony has listed competing with PC as a key reason for making Neo. For people considering both it makes sense to go PC due to the amount of control you'll have in that iterative ecosystem. I don't see how it doesn't make sense.
To you it makes sense because you prefer the PC. But we're talking about a person who has compared the two platforms already, and decided against PC. The reasons don't even matter; whatever they are, which of them does Neo affect? PC hasn't changed, original PS4 hasn't changed.... There's now a third way, a "console plus" option that they might consider. But the relative merits of the original choices haven't budged at all.
 
Oh yeah I'm not denying that. I just don't see why some treat the idea of switching to PC because of the new consoles as a crazy idea.

I don't think it a crazy idea .
I guess don't think a upgrade changes anything .
But i guess it depends on why a person buy a consoles in the first place .
And a upgrade only changes one thing , now some people can have better version than you .
It don't change easy of use , OS , buying and selling of physical media , how you play with your friends , how long the consoles with last etc etc

That's where console lose it's charm for me, it become everything else, can be replace by everything else like a PC.

It's the opposite for me how long it took for upgrades is the one problem i had with consoles.
Last gen was 8 years , this gen might be 6 to 8 years also .
That is just way to long .
 
To you it makes sense because you prefer the PC. But we're talking about a person who has compared the two platforms already, and decided against PC. The reasons don't even matter; whatever they are, which of them does Neo affect? PC hasn't changed, original PS4 hasn't changed.... There's now a third way, a "console plus" option that they might consider. But the relative merits of the original choices haven't budged at all.

I don't game on PC, I'm just recognizing some of the advantages it has. I'm talking about the scenario of a person switching to PC because they don't like the idea of upgraded consoles, and that scenario being deemed "irrational".
 
It's the opposite for me how long it took for upgrades is the one problem i had with consoles.
Last gen was 8 years , this gen might be 6 to 8 years also .
That is just way to long .

To me, mid gen upgrade is fake upgrade and it make the real upgrade took even longer.
 
Well i was talking more about Sega 32x , SS ram cart , N64 Expansion Pak.
Yeah, I just thought I'd point out that upgrades have been a thing since almost the very beginning of home consoles. The Supercharger was a very weird thing: not just increasing performance, but also changing the media games were stored on. And by a different manufacturer than the console maker, to boot! I doubt it's remembered by many folks, but it goes to show that unexpected byways and unusual possible paths have always wound through the world of video games.

I don't game on PC, I'm just recognizing some of the advantages it has. I'm talking about the scenario of a person switching to PC because they don't like the idea of upgraded consoles, and that scenario being deemed "irrational".
As I said, Neo doesn't alter what the original PS4 is, or what a PC is. If no change has happened, how can it be rational to switch your decision? You could reasonably select the new option--Neo--but flipping between the original choices is irrational.

Of course, acting irrationally is each person's prerogative.
 
To me, mid gen upgrade is fake upgrade and it make the real upgrade took even longer.

The real upgrades can't take any long that how long they going to take .
Sony can't control die shrinks or other certain advancements in tech .
If PS5 comes out in 6 to 7 years that would be the normal time line for a new gen .
So a mid gen upgrade don't have any effect but i guess we have to wait and see what happens .
 
That's where console lose it's charm for me, it become everything else, can be replace by everything else like a PC.

Like everything else regarding the iterative nature. Consoles still have enough benefits to valid a purchase - plug&play, price, exclusives etc.
 
Yeah, I just thought I'd point out that upgrades have been a thing since almost the very beginning of home consoles. The Supercharger was a very weird thing: not just increasing performance, but also changing the media games were stored on. And by a different manufacturer than the console maker, to boot! I doubt it's remembered by many folks, but it goes to show that unexpected byways and unusual possible paths have always wound through the world of video games.


As I said, Neo doesn't alter what the original PS4 is, or what a PC is. If no change has happened, how can it be rational to switch your decision? You could reasonably select the new option--Neo--but flipping between the original choices is irrational.

Of course, acting irrationally is each person's prerogative.

When you introduce console upgrades, that IS a change. In my scenario it's not comparing PC vs PS4 anymore, it's comparing two iterative ecosystems.
 
To me, mid gen upgrade is fake upgrade and it make the real upgrade took even longer.

This is happening for 4K kinda like when Nintendo made the Gameboy Color.


Damn I just came to the realization that I came up when there was actually handheld games without color lol


Technology really have been moving fast the last 20 years
 
This is happening for 4K kinda like when Nintendo made the Gameboy Color.


Damn I just came to the realization that I came up when there was actually handheld games without color lol


Technology really have been moving fast the last 20 years

Like game boy color only show 15bit color, Neo can't really do native 4K, this is perfect analogy.
 
Cause I don't like mid gen upgrade.
If they give me a choice, I would rather they make 2 SKU from the beginning. 399 for 1.8TF PS4, 599 for 3.5TF PS4+ in 2013.
That's basically what they're trying to set up for you here. Every three years, you'll have the choice of a ≥$500 "enthusiast" model built with the latest tech or a ≤$300 "mainstream" model built with something a bit older. "Older," being, "Whatever we were selling as the enthusiast box three years ago."


Don't take everything that you read as a fact by the way, same thing for the second Neo design with upgraded CPU or the Q1 release, that was just speculation.
No, it was NOT speculation. It was real information relayed to Osiris by Sony. Sorry to get snippy, but this constant warping of reality is tiresome. Those were legit leaks from legit sources, not random speculation. I'm not saying it means Q1 and Option B will happen. I'm saying that stuff isn't baseless forum speculation.

In fact, the holiday launch is the baseless forum speculation. Yes, the PDF from March says be compliant by October, but it also says prototype kits won't be returned to Sony until sometime in 2017, after production kits are made available at a date still TBD. And besides, the window for October compliance seems to have come and gone, but nobody actually has the final kits yet.


Sony learned the hard way that $599 is not the way to go...they once tried to offer a console at that price and even though it was an absolite steal (stand alone bluray players were $900+ at the time) it was still a disaster...

PERSONALLY I bought a PS3 at launch...and I would have paid the same price for a launch PS4 with better specs...bit the average consumer WILL NOT...
That's the beauty of the three-year tick-tock. They always have a product to available satisfy both groups — the enthusiasts who will gladly pay $500-$600 for bleeding edge tech, and people who just want an affordable way to play games. Previously, each group was only truly satisfied at the beginning or end of the generation, respectively.


Production always starts slow before ramping. I believe I recall reading that only 50,000 PS4s were assembled in the first month (August 2013), but by the end of the year they'd made five million or so. Plus, the number we have is from only one assembly site. Sony used multiple lines in China and a plant in Japan for the original PS4.
Yeah, that's why I asked what "full production" meant. At first I assumed it was just a loose translation, but apparently they're still producing the same 5k-6k/day, so I'm wondering when this ramp-up will begin, or if maybe "full production" really did mean full production. Sure, they're able to build tons, but that doesn't mean they will. I'd argue their forecast doesn't indicate they expect to sell tons of Neo before the end of March in any case.


Sony didn't undercut MS based on the pricing MS set. That was just MS being really, really damn stupid and valuing their console as if it was offering some tremendous value to gamers when it remotely wasn't.

The PS4 launched at $399. It's now at $349 with a great value of a game bundled in. 3 years later.

Given that, the likely scenario is that PS4 Slim will be $299 with a game bundled.
Yeah, I think $299 bundles make sense, but I think that also allows them to hit $249 without a game, and the leaked slims haven't had a game…


To me, mid gen upgrade is fake upgrade and it make the real upgrade took even longer.
Actually, it will probably ensure we don't have any more 9-year generations, and it will additionally give you the ability to upgrade more often than ever, if you so choose.
 
Like game boy color only show 15bit color, Neo can't really do native 4K, this is perfect analogy.

Of course it can do native 4K. According to the devs, games like Trine 2 could have been 4K on normal PS4, had Sony actually had 4K output support.

Extrapolating that to NEO, there will be plenty of games that hit that target, even if they arent the absolute latest AAA games pushing the highest graphics.
 
I'd be blown away if the slim was 249. Seems like a terrible idea for Sony. Why on earth would they bother undercutting the competitor who's ass their kicking. Presumably most people will see it as the the better value proposition at 299.

Can't think of an example where the company with the better product that was leading in sales then tried to undercut their main competition.

(obviously some people are going to prefer the Xbox, I'm talking in general)
 
I'd be blown away if the slim was 249. Seems like a terrible idea for Sony. Why on earth would they bother undercutting the competitor who's ass their kicking. Presumably most people will see it as the the better value proposition at 299.

Can't think of an example where the company with the better product that was leading in sales then tried to undercut their main competition.

(obviously some people are going to prefer the Xbox, I'm talking in general)
Because making it that cheap would result in a lot more sales. Yes they don't have to like you point out but

A) the Xbox one s has more sellable buzz words (ultra hd etc)
B) making it cheaper because it doesn't have the fancy new stuff the s has added then makes sense.

They could destroy any extra sales the s is making Xbox by undercutting it
 
What if Neo has 4.2TF GPU and upgraded CPU (way better than 2.1ghz Jaguar)? Lol


I haven't seen anyone post screen shots of how they think Neo and non Neo games/modes might compare on a standard 1080 display. Anyone have any guesses of what we might see on screen backed up in picture form? I've heard mention of down-scaling, enhanced AA and graphics features, etc. but some hypothetical before an afters would be cool.

Obv this excludes increased frame rates (something I'm not sure will be the focus of NEO anyway) and 4k (both not really something that can be shown in pics in this format, at least not for us on our lowly 1080p screens).

Digital Foundry face-offs have galleries where console versions are shown alongside maxed out PC. You can see the differences there.

Many here only want 30>60 conversion though.
 
Like game boy color only show 15bit color, Neo can't really do native 4K, this is perfect analogy.

This is a silly thing to say because Neo & even the PS4 & Xbox One can do real native 4K it's up to the devs to do that. Bound could have been 4K 30fps on the PS4 because it's rendered at 2688 x 1512 60fps for PSVR
 
http://www.jeuxvideo.com/videos/reportages/506714/jim-ryan-sony-il-n-y-aura-aucun-jeu-exclusif-a-la-ps4-neo-e3-2016.htm

My only hope regarding some secret sauce in Neo lays in this Jim Ryan interview and the way he laughs in the end when the interviewer ask him about specs difference for the scorpion... Jim Ryan laugh is really confident and intriguing... Really like we don't know half of the story...

yeah half of the Story because double APU Jiiiihaaaa!
 
Based on the spec we (you) are specilating about, what games could be 1080p 60fps + other graphical improvements instead of the 40k 30fps route?

I have zero interest of 4K due to my devices

I guess ffxv is more likely 1080p 60fps on neo compared to 4k 30fps? Other examples please? Uncharted 4? :)

Is it very unlikely that the user can choose between the settings, similar to pc? Think that would be a strong selling point for Neo in this "transition period"
 
Based on the spec we (you) are specilating about, what games could be 1080p 60fps + other graphical improvements instead og the 40k 30fps route?

I have zero interest of 4K due to my devices

I guess ffxv is more likely 1080p 60fps on neo compared to 4k 30fps? Othet examples please? :)

My guess, God of war because it meant to be the showcase title for Neo, plus E3 demo running on unlocked frame rate.
 
My guess, God of war because it meant to be the showcase title for Neo, plus E3 demo running on unlocked frame rate.

I was all thinking "well, unless ordinary games just get an appropriate boost from the Neo as opposed to being designed or something I might get a Slim" then i remembered God of War. That at 60fps...
 
In the eyes of some sure (people interested in that feature set).

In the eyes of the mass market? An evenly priced PS4S is gonna wipe the floor with the XB1S.

So why would Sony undercut and give up profits?

This. Even in the former XBOX360 dominated US market MS' XBOX One was only able to beat PS4 in July by a mere 10k units by offering it almost $100 cheaper. With price parity ($299), PS4 should be able to outsell the XB1S 1,5-2:1 easily. Right now, Sony is in no rush to offer PS4 even cheaper. That said, I have no doubt that PS4 Slim is designed in a way so they could sell it much cheaper and still cover costs of production.

As for PS4 Neo, that's a premium product which is going to have a premium price tag. $399 isn't a premium price tag. That's the critical mass market price nowadays, but not "premium".

Between 449-599 for Neo anything is possible, especially as long as Scorpio is nothing more than a buzzword. $449 is actually a very optimistic price in the current market environment.

And don't forget: Consoles are sold (almost) at cost. Software royalties and subscriptions are the main cash cows in this business. From this perspective, Sony shouldn't care if they sell you a PS4 Slim or a Neo, as long as you buy games and use PS+. So there is absolutely no need for Sony to introduce a cheap / subsidized PS4 Neo right now.

tl;dr: PS4 Neo is going to be expensive.
 
What if Neo has 4.2TF GPU and upgraded CPU (way better than 2.1ghz Jaguar)? Lol.

I think that would be the best case scenario. THe GPU is already damned overkill and even that is too much focus IMO. Just focus on getting the maximum out of the CPU now.

I'd be happy with 4.2 tflops Polaris GPU, 2.4 GHZ Jaguar CPU, 218-224/GBs GDDR5.

Based on the spec we (you) are specilating about, what games could be 1080p 60fps + other graphical improvements instead of the 40k 30fps route?

I have zero interest of 4K due to my devices

I guess ffxv is more likely 1080p 60fps on neo compared to 4k 30fps? Other examples please? Uncharted 4? :)

Is it very unlikely that the user can choose between the settings, similar to pc? Think that would be a strong selling point for Neo in this "transition period"

It depends on the game. Don't expect 1080p barely 30fps to suddenly become locked 60, or even approaching 60.

And FFXV won't be 60fps on NEO, due to how they are barely scraping by with performance on PS4 and XB1.

And as for settings, who knows, but i personally doubt it.
 
Doesn't seem like Cory will be showing off anything new though anytime soon, looking at his Twitter feed.

At best we'd see the same sequence Neo-fied, but personally I feel this says we won't see GoW there at all.
 
Yup, it's either going to be "available today" or "this week" at the latest for the slim.

I'm honestly expecting the Neo to be out on or before October 13th as well.

The slim launch must be imminent. The fact that units are leaking from the distribution channel and the fact that stocks of the current model are drying up point to an early September release.

I'm hoping for a late September or early October release for Neo. Personally, I'd prefer to be able to preload PSVR launch titles onto a new console, rather than need to delete stuff to make space and then need to transfer everything.

For many reasons posted above, a 2017 launch for Neo seems very unlikely.
 
Like game boy color only show 15bit color, Neo can't really do native 4K, this is perfect analogy.

The resolution bump we're getting is still significant even though it's not native 4k. We spent all last generation with "HD consoles" that were usually sub-HD, this is a much better situation.
 
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