Depends. If they can showcase some effects differences it should be appreciable regardless of your stream quality. I guess at least one of the games they show will have stuff like that, not just a res bump or downsampled image, which might be harder to showcase over the web.
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PlayStation Meeting announced. September 7th 3PM ET (PS4 Neo Reveal)
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Depends. If they can showcase some effects differences it should be appreciable regardless of your stream quality. I guess at least one of the games they show will have stuff like that, not just a res bump or downsampled image, which might be harder to showcase over the web.
recklesscognition
Member
I would be happy for just watching Aloy's hair being affected by the breeze in Neo mode.
disco potato
Member
Same thing they always do, a bunch of colored shapes bouncing around a confined space to show physics/power. One side has ps4 with blue shapes, other side has NEO with green shapes on top of the blue shapes AND yellow rubber ducks on top of all those.
Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
Tubs.. Newer more upgraded tubs. Powerful tubs. And, yeah, some numbers, prices, shock and awe(or Awwwww man!! Depending what happens)
Blackmarsh63
Neo Member
Maybe put a NEO game along side a XB1 game then we'll all be able to tell the difference.
Roto Prime
Banned
Anyone know if Sony will be fixing the heat problems with the ps4 with the neo?
How will anyone here know that?
what problem
Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
In all seriousness, I don't think anyone here can answer this.
I vaguely recall that the Foxconn worker may have mentioned that the camera looked different.
disco potato
Member
Yeah. NEO weighs 10lbs cause they stuffed a phase change cooling setup into the case.
What heat problems?
I don't know why, but every time that I see him at a conference I'm surprised at how good his English is. CEO and all that, but it's still jarring to me even though I've seen him a dozen times.
AmuroChan
Member
You should hear how good Mark Cerny and Andrew House's Japanese is.
Dredd97
Member
wasn't Kaz head of playstation in the USA for a while, so his english would be good...
vpance
Member
Heat problem is bad thermal paste application.
MilkyJoe
Member
disco potato
Member
wasn't Kaz head of playstation in the USA for a while, so his english would be good...
He's been learning english since he started schooling as a child AFAIK. That would be a few decades before coming to PS.
Well Photoshop is an industry standard tool, so it probably was.
Negotiator
Banned
Regarding the "weak CPU" controversy, check this out:
http://arstechnica.com/uncategorized/2005/06/5054-2/
"The most ironic bit of it all is that according to developers, if either manufacturer had decided to use an Athlon 64 or a Pentium D in their next-gen console, they would be significantly ahead of the competition in terms of CPU performance.
At another point in the article, Anand claims that the Xbox 360's CPU will deliver only about twice the performance of the original Xbox's 733MHz Intel CPU."
http://www.anandtech.com/show/1719/6
"The reason this is a problem is because these general purpose cores that make up the Xbox 360’s Xenon CPU or the single general purpose PPE in Cell are extremely weak cores, far slower than a Pentium 4 or Athlon 64, even running at much lower clock speeds."
Deja vu or not? It's the 2005 equivalent of "Jaguar vs i5"...
http://7-cpu.com/
I guess social media and forums weren't the norm back then, not to mention that everyone was dazzled by flops (GPGPU was at its infancy at that time), like MIPS don't matter to game logic performance...
http://arstechnica.com/uncategorized/2005/06/5054-2/
"The most ironic bit of it all is that according to developers, if either manufacturer had decided to use an Athlon 64 or a Pentium D in their next-gen console, they would be significantly ahead of the competition in terms of CPU performance.
At another point in the article, Anand claims that the Xbox 360's CPU will deliver only about twice the performance of the original Xbox's 733MHz Intel CPU."
http://www.anandtech.com/show/1719/6
"The reason this is a problem is because these general purpose cores that make up the Xbox 360’s Xenon CPU or the single general purpose PPE in Cell are extremely weak cores, far slower than a Pentium 4 or Athlon 64, even running at much lower clock speeds."
Deja vu or not? It's the 2005 equivalent of "Jaguar vs i5"...
http://7-cpu.com/
I guess social media and forums weren't the norm back then, not to mention that everyone was dazzled by flops (GPGPU was at its infancy at that time), like MIPS don't matter to game logic performance...
GifGafIsTheBestGaf
Member
i love sexy and sleek cables
Last week a shop I know of told me they had the Slim in stock. They just sent me some pics to prove it so looks like I will be going down to buy one
if you buy it, can you test the video capture?? i would like to know if you get 1080P videos
Well, we knew that the 360 CPU was nothing to right home about even at launch, and the Cell had all the hype and controversy.
But this makes 2 gens and 10 years that all 3 manufacturers put out imbalanced units.
It would be nice to see a good GPU paired with good ram,paired with a good CPU for once.
Luckily, Zen will up the baseline significantly
Its a redesigned OG PS4, its going to likely going to have the same limitations as OG PS4. So i would not hold my breath on 1080p video
Are you in UK? I'm looking to sell one too, but not at a scalper price of 300 if your interested?
Shin-Ra
Junior Member
Theonik
Member
The reason manufacturers put such 'imbalanced' systems is because they are actually very balanced for their intended purpose. Game developers are looking for better GPUs not CPUs. Because these systems have limited budgets both in terms of power and money, Pairing a stronger GPU with a weaker CPU is better than having a stronger CPU but cutting back on GPU to accommodate it. Zen isn't really made with that in mind so I don't think console makers adopting it and certainly not parts that come anywhere near matching PC CPUs.
The PC usecase is completely different as the majority of CPUs need to be beefy to accommodate every day computing and multi-tasking. Game performance is a good side-effect of that but CPU is usually underutilised unless you want really high framerates.
Negotiator
Banned
You know what, it pisses me off when I hear people saying "man, PS3/X360 had so much faster CPUs compared to PS4/XB1... 3.2 GHz must be faster than 1.6-1.75 GHz, right?"
They don't understand the microarchitecture intricacies (in-order vs OoO, branch prediction etc.), but they're so eager to diss the current-gen consoles, just because they built a shiny new PC with an i5 and a GTX 970.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a console with a Zen CPU (provided it doesn't break BC), but before claiming that a CPU is weak, they should question themselves if a certain game is using the CPU/GPU resources properly. For example, I'm not going to diss consoles just because Just Cause 3 is running like shit. Even (mid-range) PCs cannot run it that well. On the other hand, Uncharted 4 seems to run pretty well, despite all the explosions/destruction, because it uses the CPU/GPU resources in the most efficient manner.
ps: Yeah, the PS3/360 were imbalanced (CPU-centric design, especially the PS3), while the current-gen consoles are GPU-centric. As long as devs are using GPGPU for SIMD code (physics, destruction, pathfinding etc.), they should be doing just fine.
Raiden1018
Banned
Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
Oh, like what happens when I use the program.
Obliterator
Member
It really is an interesting question how they will reveal and sell the Neo if 4k is the primary selling feature. You can't get that across to the vast majority of consumers in video format as the they are mostly on 1080p sets. 4k still has a fairly tiny total adoption rate and on a stream to most people a Neo 4k game will look nearly identical to a PS4 1080p game.
That's why I have to think Sony are encouraging devs to offer higher fidelity assets, such as better AA, improved lighting, framerate etc. If 4k is the major standout feature I don't think Neo will move a whole lot of units especially with a very cheap Slim PS4 on the market. They have to offer advantages to 1080p owners.
That's why I have to think Sony are encouraging devs to offer higher fidelity assets, such as better AA, improved lighting, framerate etc. If 4k is the major standout feature I don't think Neo will move a whole lot of units especially with a very cheap Slim PS4 on the market. They have to offer advantages to 1080p owners.
Negotiator
Banned
Good points, but the bold one is debatable.
There are rumors that PS4 Neo/Scorpio might have Zen LP/Lite CPUs.
AMD has also said that they're discontinuing their cat series (Jaguar/Puma) in favor of Zen. So, Zen is clearly made to scale accordingly in all market segments.
This is no different than what nVidia is doing with Maxwell/Pascal... the same uArch is being used from mobile (Tegra) to high-end enthusiast GPUs (Titan). Efficient, scalable design allows you to do that.
Karspankey
Banned
Are Sony's conferences usually available to watch after they are done? Have to go to work an hour before the stream starts and I'd love to come home and watch it myself, spoiler free!
gundamkyoukai
Member
This .
It's better they put more into GPU than CPU
Plus GPU can now do some cpu task so it's a win win for them
I agree with him.
If Xbox One S is £250 with a game. And Jonny parents come in to 'Game' to buy a new console for their little darling (or even basically anyone who isn't hardcore). They won't be too fussed which one is winning the war. They will just see one for £250 with a game and another at say £300 with no game.
Now if Sony charge £250 as well or less then they are quids in...
Shin-Ra
Junior Member
Higher resolutions lead to less aliasing and greater clarity of the assets already in PS4 games.
That applies to both UHD TV viewers and HD TV viewers.
Didn't work so well for regular XBO.
Maybe Jonny parents ask him what console his firends has before buying anything.
tiebreaker
Member
Ask me again a week after neo releases.
Theonik
Member
What I said is not that Zen might not hit the mobile and lower TDP markets, what I am saying is that these parts will be clocked much lower than their desktop counterparts which in turn makes them much slower. AMD has also said they won't be making shrunk Zen cores either, but then the question becomes whether Sony/MS would really opt for a Zen core. Jaguar was chosen for those systems because it was the best thing AMD had at the time that fit the TDP they wanted while allowing them space on the die for the GPU they wanted.
Negotiator
Banned
I don't think anyone is asking for 4 GHz console CPUs. Enthusiast PCs will always have faster and more power-hungry chips.
Even a 2.5 GHz Zen LP would be pretty good performance-wise and probably power friendly enough for a console.
Hear, hear! Let's not imply utter stupidity and simplistic price-based thinking of parents. In my experience, assuming they didn't do any research beforehand, average consumers facing choice like PS4 or XBO would ask "and why are prices different?".
Sucks dude, I feel ya. I work 1-week blocks of 13-hour overnight shifts only 3 times a year, but one of those weeks is next week. Going to have to find a recorded stream and avoid spoilers until then. =/
From the leaked dev presentation -
They're encouraging devs to offer two paths in Neo mode - high-res for UHDTVs, enhanced 1080p for HDTVs.
While 'many games' are doing this, not all are - it sounds like some are just downsampling to 1080p from the high-res buffer for HDTVs. Which will yield IQ benefits, but indeed they'd be difficult to communicate over the web.
But I expect most or all of Sony's games will have two paths, and they'll showcase those that do.
Theonik
Member
My problem is people keep getting bogged down on this debate while we don't know what TDP will be on desktop parts let alone theoretical LP parts that might not even happen, but every time you hear people talking about the potential of console Zen, they are thinking of what desktop Zen brings to the table not what a low power Zen would which has elevated it to mythical proportion. A lot of people will be disappointed if console Zen doesn't happen with either Scorpio or Neo, or it's not the huge leap they expected it to be by looking at desktop benchmarks. Not that it even matters for reasons I mentioned before. (CPU<GPU)
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