Games ruined by creator's politics

Moosichu

Member
This thread is fascinating, for both the actual topic and some of the posts.

For me personally, I will avoid games where I know the money is helping support bad causes. (But even then, you have things like how the physical materials in consoles are acquired and then how they are built, but that's something for another time.)

Based in this thread, I'm never buying (or playing) anything anything by Doug TeNapel.
 

Strike

Member
Jesus @ some of those posts on the last page. Between this and the Max thread, who let these people in here? GAF is slippin'
 

packy34

Member
Also, surpised that there is no mention of Kojima in the thread.

His open political stances can be summed up as anti-nuclear proliferation and a hope for a peaceful future. Are those politics actually offensive to anyone?

Being a horny dude isn't a political stance.
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
Can you watch Chinatown knowing that the director of the film drugged and anally raped a 13 year old girl at Jack Nicolson's house around the time of the making of the film?

He's actually the only example I've come across where I just can't separate the art from the artist. It's just stuck there and refuses to move. Hell I don't even blink when I remember that Mike Tyson is a convicted rapist who actually served his time.
 
i have no idea who Zoe Quinn is; should i play the game she made ?

i dont really want to get into this but can someone post a brief summry of whats the deal with this dev

Zoe Quinn hasn't done anything wrong unless you are insane.

Depression Quest is a really-just-okay visual novel. It's free, give it a shot if you want.
 
This video gets posted all the time, so it's a shame that it's actually extremely dumb.

If you don't include a creator's politics in your judgment of something, then that's totally valid, but there's this revisionist narrative going on trying to excuse Phil Fish for his behavior or otherwise insist that he's not a jerk at all. But nobody provoked Phil Fish to say that PCs are "meant for spreadsheets," and nobody provoked him to brag to PC gamers about how many sales the PC version was getting despite his comments. Nobody provoked him to tell someone that his entire nation's creative output sucked. Nobody prompted him to tell people to kill themselves or make death threats at his business partner.

Explaining this away as the actions of someone who wasn't meant for the spotlight being thrust into it is operating under the (even more insulting to him) assumption that Phil can't be responsible for his own actions. What wound up happening to Phil was inexcusable and I wouldn't wish that on anybody, but the fact remains that Phil Fish was a bully. He was a bully of his own choices and his own volition. Even if we ignore the things he did that were overexaggerated reactions, he went out of his way to hurt people completely unprompted on multiple occasions.

For the record, I played Fez and enjoyed it. There are developers I won't deal with due to their thoughts and actions anymore, though. Randy Pitchford continually lied to his playerbase to attract sales, I fell for them, and I won't anymore. I won't buy games from any developer that associates themselves with Gamergate (Running With Scissors, Spicy Horse/American McGee, whoever made Huniepop). And David Cage can basically just fuck off.

Wasn't aware of this one and just Googled. Don't feel as keen to replay Madness Returns now as I had been recently.
 
I wouldn't say "ruined", but Minecraft with Notch's GG bullshit. It doesn't really matter anymore since he's not involved with the game, but it sucks knowing I helped support him buying the game early on. I still enjoy the game though so maybe that isn't the best example.
 

Elchele

Member
How do you feel about american developers?

USA committed a lot of atrocities in Latin America, just in the last 60 years. They basically destroyed democracies, enabled military coups with thousands of people getting killed or never heard of again, families separated, kids being taken away from their pregnant mothers, Guatemala syphilis experiment, El Salvador terrorism USA groups, Los Contras in Honduras, Salvador Allende assassination and the following regime of Pinochet with USA backing it, etc.

I doubt more than 5% of developers in USA would recognize all those things and say USA's government until before Obama were war/terrorist criminals.
 

CrazyHorse

Junior Member
I absolutely love Dragon Quest, and just picked up VII on the 3DS.

A few weeks ago I read about Sugiyama's drive to spread denial of Japan's war atrocities. What a fucking horrible man.

Now I just can't get it out of my head when listening to his music. I try to blank it out, but the music in DQ is so catchy and encompassing. It is almost half of the experience of playing the game.

All I can think about when hearing it now is what an absolute shit stain the creator of it is.

It really sucks.

Good on you my friend! I feel the same way when I come across artists who have dodgy views.
 
Eternal Darkness and Twin Snakes for sure.
Two of my favourite games of all time, but knowing they were made by the lunatic Dyack and worse their art director is now a convicted pedophile really sours those games.
 

Mechazawa

Member
Just to be clear, Chair the company are based in Utah so I wouldn't assume they're in the clear personally; however, they are quiet about their positions whatever they are and weren't above hiring PAD to do the script so I wouldn't assume anything negative automatically either.

Salt Lake City, to be specific.

Wouldn't surprise me if there are more than a handful of loons at Chair, but that's all hearsay unless evidence shows otherwise.
 

Fantastapotamus

Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
i have no idea who Zoe Quinn is; should i play the game she made ?

i dont really want to get into this but can someone post a brief summry of whats the deal with this dev

She made a free game about depression. I don't think she made another game so far. I didn't care much for it, but I'm also not the target audience. I've heard some people with depression found it quite helpfull.

How do you feel about american developers?

USA committed a lot of atrocities in Latin America, just in the last 60 years. They basically destroyed democracies, enabled military coups with thousands of people getting killed or never heard of again, families separated, kids being taken away from their pregnant mothers, Guatemala syphilis experiment, El Salvador terrorism USA groups, Los Contras in Honduras, Salvador Allende assassination and the following regime of Pinochet with USA backing it, etc.

I doubt more than 5% of developers in USA would recognize all those things and say USA's government until before Obama were war/terrorist criminals.

Oh boy
 
i have no idea who Zoe Quinn is; should i play the game she made ?

i dont really want to get into this but can someone post a brief summry of whats the deal with this dev

Depression Quest is free, and it's basically about trying to live with depression.

Her ex and Adam Baldwin of Firefly "fame" started Gamergate.
 
Wasn't aware of this one and just Googled. Don't feel as keen to replay Madness Returns now as I had been recently.

McGee is actually a somewhat similar case as Phil Fish in that something genuinely horrible happened to him and he used it as an excuse to become an absolute monster. It's sad, but he still needs to be held accountable for his actions and his choices.
 

CrazyHorse

Junior Member
How do you feel about american developers?

USA committed a lot of atrocities in Latin America, just in the last 60 years. They basically destroyed democracies, enabled military coups with thousands of people getting killed or never heard of again, families separated, kids being taken away from their pregnant mothers, Guatemala syphilis experiment, El Salvador terrorism USA groups, Los Contras in Honduras, etc.

I doubt more than 5% of developers in USA would recognize all those things.

You can't judge the developers for what they don't know. However if I knew that a dev knowingly denied (or even supported) some truths about oppression, then I would judge them.
 
How do you feel about american developers?

USA committed a lot of atrocities in Latin America, just in the last 60 years. They basically destroyed democracies, enabled military coups with thousands of people getting killed or never heard of again, families separated, kids being taken away from their pregnant mothers, Guatemala syphilis experiment, El Salvador terrorism USA groups, Los Contras in Honduras, etc.

I doubt more than 5% of developers in USA would recognize all those things and say USA's government until before Obama were war/terrorist criminals.

Give Americans a little credit - they're not a hivemind and are capable of free thought.

I'm British and my politics are the polar opposite of our current government. Does that mean I'm responsible for their actions? No.

You're seriously suggesting people boycott American art as a whole because of some questionable international relations?!

Edit: By the way, my politics are highly left-wing and I'm aware of the issues you raise, I just think it's ludicrous to suggest it should impact on one's judgement of individuals or their game purchasing.
 

Mung

Member
For me...The Last of Us: Left Behind.

I was definitely left behind, because I am not intrigued by homosexuality nor exploring same sex relations.

This reminds me of people who complain about playing black or female characters in video games. "Can't possibly relate to it!"
 

poodaddy

Member
How do you feel about american developers?

USA committed a lot of atrocities in Latin America, just in the last 60 years. They basically destroyed democracies, enabled military coups with thousands of people getting killed or never heard of again, families separated, kids being taken away from their pregnant mothers, Guatemala syphilis experiment, El Salvador terrorism USA groups, Los Contras in Honduras, Salvador Allende assassination and the following regime of Pinochet with USA backing it, etc.

I doubt more than 5% of developers in USA would recognize all those things and say USA's government until before Obama were war/terrorist criminals.

?? You're kind of reaching here man. Those are all tragic events but what does the U.S. government perpetuating those awful events have to do with developers who happen to live in the country and have almost certainly never even met the men who made those awful decisions?
 
How far are we allowed to go when it comes to criticism of Quinn and her views? Not entirely political in nature, but I've had run-ins with her at game jams that have hardly endeared me to her as a person.

The thread is about dev's politics that put you off their games

Think about what it is you'd like to do.
 

Eusis

Member
Doug TenNapel is violently homophobic to the point of monetarily supporting organisations that would treat LGBT+ people as sub-human.
This is the kind of thing that sets me off. Sugiyama I can just write off as an old man probably stuck in his ways who hopefully is just an example of a generation that's about to move on (although you can't underestimate similar nonsense coming out of younger people's mouths), but this sort of stuff is coming from someone younger, and ESPECIALLY when they give money to terrible causes, is a lot harder to stomach. It's why I'll take more of an issue with Chick-fil-A than Papa John's (from what I know anyway) in that Chick-fil-A contributed monetarily to awful causes while Papa John's is just run by a miserly asshole.
 

Red Frost

Banned
American Mcgee has allied himself with Gamergate, but has absolutely no clue what it's about based on stuff he's said on it. I don't think it's entirely fair to bring him into this.

Especially when the behavior of people on the other side has been terrible toward him, like many harrassing him over his sister's disappearance and likely death for him allying with gamergate. Sucks because that could just push him further in that direction as IIRC one of his tweets said the only people that weren't saying absolutely horrific things about him or his sister were confirmed gamergators. Turning into a "those who fight monsters" kind of situation at times it seems.
 
i have no idea who Zoe Quinn is; should i play the game she made ?

i dont really want to get into this but can someone post a brief summry of whats the deal with this dev

It's a game that explores scenarios a person faces while dealing with depression. There's nothing controversial or politically driven within it.
 
This reminds me of people who complain about playing black or female characters in video games. "Can't possibly relate to it!"

This might sound weird but I think that's half of why I quite enjoy playing as FemShep or the Wife/MOther in Fallout 4. Another experience/side of things I would not usually get. I should get on with beating TLoU and onto the DLC....
 
American Mcgee has allied himself with Gamergate, but has absolutely no clue what it's about based on stuff he's said on it. I don't think it's entirely fair to bring him into this.

Especially when the behavior of people on the other side has been terrible toward him, like many harrassing him over his sister's disappearance and likely death for him allying with gamergate. Sucks because that could just push him further in that direction as IIRC one of his tweets said the only people that weren't saying absolutely horrific things about him or his sister were confirmed gamergators. Turning into a "those who fight monsters" kind of situation at times it seems.

Now the whole picture appears.

Why align yourself with something when you don't know what it is?

Obviously the harassment about his sister is unacceptable.

And if you genuinely feel like Quinn's politics should give you or anyone else pause, feel free to elaborate on what they are, with no bs.
 

mjp2417

Banned
How do you feel about american developers?

USA committed a lot of atrocities in Latin America, just in the last 60 years. They basically destroyed democracies, enabled military coups with thousands of people getting killed or never heard of again, families separated, kids being taken away from their pregnant mothers, Guatemala syphilis experiment, El Salvador terrorism USA groups, Los Contras in Honduras, Salvador Allende assassination and the following regime of Pinochet with USA backing it, etc.

I doubt more than 5% of developers in USA would recognize all those things and say USA's government until before Obama were war/terrorist criminals.

American developers are not the U.S. government
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
How do you feel about american developers?

USA committed a lot of atrocities in Latin America, just in the last 60 years. They basically destroyed democracies, enabled military coups with thousands of people getting killed or never heard of again, families separated, kids being taken away from their pregnant mothers, Guatemala syphilis experiment, El Salvador terrorism USA groups, Los Contras in Honduras, Salvador Allende assassination and the following regime of Pinochet with USA backing it, etc.

I doubt more than 5% of developers in USA would recognize all those things and say USA's government until before Obama were war/terrorist criminals.

This definitely explains why the best games have Eurojank.
 

bumclot

Member
Lol, this thread...

tumblr_inline_n3p0ifmaoR1qzpwy2.png
 
I mean I'm honestly not a fan of her politics either, but I played Depression Quest and while I didn't love it, it is somewhat of an empathetic experience for those that have depression like me. So they didn't turn me off from playing the game and I'm even glad I did play it, I was just commenting on why that would be disallowed for those that do feel that way.

I hope I don't get banned for asking as I'm genuinely curious.

What are her politics? I'm being totally serious/curious, because I'm sort of aware of what happened but...not sure about her politics?
 

Salarians

Member
I mean I'm honestly not a fan of her politics either, but I played Depression Quest and while I didn't love it, it is somewhat of an empathetic experience for those that have depression like me. So they didn't turn me off from playing the game and I'm even glad I did play it, I was just commenting on why that would be disallowed for those that do feel that way.

I hope I don't get banned for asking as I'm genuinely curious.
But what are "Zoe Quinn's politics"? 🤔
 

Lynx_7

Member
Can you watch Chinatown knowing that the director of the film drugged and anally raped a 13 year old girl at Jack Nicolson's house around the time of the making of the film?

Polanski is a piece of shit, Chinatown is a good movie. I'm not advocating for people to do the same and disassociate the works from their creators, but it's what works best for me. I won't say it doesn't bother me cause I'd be lying, but I can still enjoy a good song/movie/book/game even if their creators are reprehensible. I know Lovecraft was a racist bigot, but I enjoy his work and artistic legacy.
I understand a lot of people can't or don't want to do same and that's a completely valid stance too.
 
How do you feel about american developers?

USA committed a lot of atrocities in Latin America, just in the last 60 years. They basically destroyed democracies, enabled military coups with thousands of people getting killed or never heard of again, families separated, kids being taken away from their pregnant mothers, Guatemala syphilis experiment, El Salvador terrorism USA groups, Los Contras in Honduras, Salvador Allende assassination and the following regime of Pinochet with USA backing it, etc.

I doubt more than 5% of developers in USA would recognize all those things and say USA's government until before Obama were war/terrorist criminals.

You're not wrong that the USA has done horrible things, but every major first-world country has committed atrocities. Japan committed atrocities during World War II. European countries enslaved another entire continent for centuries. According to your logic, we should just ban all videogames, to be safe. Ask yourself how sane what your saying is.

And as others have said, the American people don't necessarily agree with what the American government does, and American developers are no exception.
 

Tizoc

Member
This video gets posted all the time, so it's a shame that it's actually extremely dumb.

If you don't include a creator's politics in your judgment of something, then that's totally valid, but there's this revisionist narrative going on trying to excuse Phil Fish for his behavior or otherwise insist that he's not a jerk at all. But nobody provoked Phil Fish to say that PCs are "meant for spreadsheets," and nobody provoked him to brag to PC gamers about how many sales the PC version was getting despite his comments. Nobody provoked him to tell someone that his entire nation's creative output sucked. Nobody prompted him to tell people to kill themselves or make death threats at his business partner.

Explaining this away as the actions of someone who wasn't meant for the spotlight being thrust into it is operating under the (even more insulting to him) assumption that Phil can't be responsible for his own actions. What wound up happening to Phil was inexcusable and I wouldn't wish that on anybody, but the fact remains that Phil Fish was a bully. He was a bully of his own choices and his own volition. Even if we ignore the things he did that were overexaggerated reactions, he went out of his way to hurt people completely unprompted on multiple occasions.

For the record, I played Fez and enjoyed it. There are developers I won't deal with due to their thoughts and actions anymore, though. Randy Pitchford continually lied to his playerbase to attract sales, I fell for them, and I won't anymore. I won't buy games from any developer that associates themselves with Gamergate (Running With Scissors, Spicy Horse/American McGee, whoever made Huniepop). And David Cage can basically just fuck off.

I'll update my initial post (the one you quoted), but I already replied to similar sentiments in a previous page.
I see Phil's actions as unfortunate, and he should have kept a more mature mind when responding or commenting on things.
 

Canucked

Member
I'm sorry but when someone suffers from depression to the level where they make a game about it (and later are the target of a hate campaign) might need a bit more compassion than this. How she acts in public may be a bit more complicated than one may think. It's completely irrelevant to this topic.

(sorry did't quote the person asking how far they can go when talking about her)
 
The entire USA tangent isn't entirely misguided, because the heart of this debate is "nothing is inherently apolitical" versus "there is no ethical consumption in late-stage capitalism anyways." It's a genuine philosophical dilemma.

I think the only way to "lose" this argument is deny that there's any politics at all and to insist that you're not at least indirectly supporting a creator's view by buying their product.

I'll update my initial post (the one you quoted), but I already replied to similar sentiments in a previous page.
I see Phil's actions as unfortunate, and he should have kept a more mature mind when responding or commenting on things.

Forgive me, the thread is long and I just worked an overnight.
 

bumclot

Member
The thing of it is, it's not banworthy in and of itself to have less-than-progressive politics but people seem to have trouble expressing coherent arguments or just opt for drive-by posts.

Oh, I know and I totally agree. It's just funny how some threads bring a certain type of poster out of the woodwork.
 
Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2.
Going back to it is gonna be hard what with the BS forced stealth sections, but that's the least of the issues with the creator's meddling.
Was going to post this. Lords of Shadow 2 showed so much promise, but pretty much everything was ruined by incompetent management.
 
here's hoping link is gay in the next zelda game

Given his recent appearances have had him strongly fit the twink criteria, and the fact that he communicates purely in high-pitched sexual grunts, I wouldn't say it's impossible for it to happen.
/s
 

The Argus

Member
I still blast RKelly even though he peed on a minor. Michael Jackson is still the king in my books despite even the most recent allegations. I fucking love Mel Gibson movies, yet he's a total douche in the real world.

Guess I'm just good at separating art from the artist. If a game designer likes Trump it won't stop me from buying the game. Hell I'll buy the new Mass Effect even though one of the devs on Twitter is blatantly trying to start a race war.

Now if profit of the game went to actively support hate, I'd draw the line. Luckily the Aryan Brotherhood doesn't seem to be big on game development.
 
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