LOL no. Even super edgelord Megas like Garchomp are better than the Alolan Formes.
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Pokémon Sun & Moon | Info and speculation thread
- Thread starter Galava
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LOL no. Even super edgelord Megas like Garchomp are better than the Alolan Formes.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
R.I.P. Spiky Eared Pichu
Yes I know that's not the same thing
Shh
Yes I know that's not the same thing
Shh
Mega are sticking around just not the focus of gen 7 as the focus seems to be on the gen 7 Pokémon, Alolan form and the ultra beast.
Personally I am hoping that we see fewer megas going forward and the return of cross gen evolution in gen 8 that isn't just an eeveelution as I see no reason why we can't have both.
Alolan form are new species megas however are not.
If they don't get a Pokédex numbering or exist naturally in the wild then they aren't new species nor new Pokémon, they are straight up burst mode.
Hard to say when we haven't seen how Alolan form preform in battles.
Plus we all know that regular Garchomp is superior over his mega counterpart. ;p
Not just her, Cosplay Pikachu from the Hoenn remake is also stuck in gen 6.
Personally I am hoping that we see fewer megas going forward and the return of cross gen evolution in gen 8 that isn't just an eeveelution as I see no reason why we can't have both.
Alolan form are new species megas however are not.
If they don't get a Pokédex numbering or exist naturally in the wild then they aren't new species nor new Pokémon, they are straight up burst mode.
Hard to say when we haven't seen how Alolan form preform in battles.
Plus we all know that regular Garchomp is superior over his mega counterpart. ;p
Not just her, Cosplay Pikachu from the Hoenn remake is also stuck in gen 6.
I meant purely from a design perspective.
Lil'DigiOp
Member
Alolan/Region forms are ultimately the best for new mon mechanics aside from creating new Pokemon entirely.
It allows GF to experiment more with the type chart or reboot a Pokemon essentially. I personally would be open to this mechanic carrying over to newer games. Especially like remakes with the talked about "Sinnohan" forms.
Im only intrigued because I would assume forms are treated the same data wise as new pokemon.... New models, movesets, and animations.
Megan are ok, but I feel like strong popular Mons got megas instead of mons that seriously needed the boost. The prioritization was entirely unfocused IMO.
I think GF has righted this completely by introducing so many new Pokemon with interesting sub mechanics or meta gameplay. I really love having to recall which mon has a certain niche or crutch and having to adapt for that in battle. Its what makes the world building for me.
It allows GF to experiment more with the type chart or reboot a Pokemon essentially. I personally would be open to this mechanic carrying over to newer games. Especially like remakes with the talked about "Sinnohan" forms.
Im only intrigued because I would assume forms are treated the same data wise as new pokemon.... New models, movesets, and animations.
Megan are ok, but I feel like strong popular Mons got megas instead of mons that seriously needed the boost. The prioritization was entirely unfocused IMO.
I think GF has righted this completely by introducing so many new Pokemon with interesting sub mechanics or meta gameplay. I really love having to recall which mon has a certain niche or crutch and having to adapt for that in battle. Its what makes the world building for me.
No. If Megas aren't, Region Forms aren't either.
Megas have their own lore, their own balance, their own design, their own process, are marketed as new Pokémon etc. Just because they aren't outside of battle doesn't mean they are not new species
BodiesWithoutOrgans
Member
Alaon Raichu will be on my team I can't wait it's so cute can't wait to own a plushie of it
I don't see there being 100+ new Pokemon, but it might touch 100 with the new Pokemon + Alolan forms. I think there will be more new Pokemon than XY however.
As for Megas, I think they will definitely be in the game. They are too big of a feature to just remove. I mean pretty much every team in XY, singles or doubles, ran a Mega. They were a major part of the XY story and they even added more in ORAS. Not to mention their contributes in terms of merchandising. They're not just going to cut that thread.
I do believe that there won't be any Megas during the main game and it will be regulated to a post game feature. Perhaps you unlock it after a quest with AZ or something. With Alolan Pokemon and Z moves, Megas would be perhaps a bit overwhelming to adequately introduce in the story. I also think they won't add any new Megas. Coming from someone who likes the concept of Mega Pokemon, there are already way to many of them. Originally it just seemed there as fanservice for really popular Pokemon or to make older Pokemon relevant (hi Kangaskhan), but then they just went crazy with it. Mega Beedrill? Mega Glalie? Why? Let's dial it back and think about balancing those that overwhelmingly dominant.
It should be interesting to see how Z Skills and Mega Pokemon gel together in the competitive scene. Are people just going to be throwing nukes at each other? Will there be room for Pokemon without these abilities? Who will stop Talonflame? Will Mega Kangaskhan be reclassified as an Ultra Beast?
As for Megas, I think they will definitely be in the game. They are too big of a feature to just remove. I mean pretty much every team in XY, singles or doubles, ran a Mega. They were a major part of the XY story and they even added more in ORAS. Not to mention their contributes in terms of merchandising. They're not just going to cut that thread.
I do believe that there won't be any Megas during the main game and it will be regulated to a post game feature. Perhaps you unlock it after a quest with AZ or something. With Alolan Pokemon and Z moves, Megas would be perhaps a bit overwhelming to adequately introduce in the story. I also think they won't add any new Megas. Coming from someone who likes the concept of Mega Pokemon, there are already way to many of them. Originally it just seemed there as fanservice for really popular Pokemon or to make older Pokemon relevant (hi Kangaskhan), but then they just went crazy with it. Mega Beedrill? Mega Glalie? Why? Let's dial it back and think about balancing those that overwhelmingly dominant.
It should be interesting to see how Z Skills and Mega Pokemon gel together in the competitive scene. Are people just going to be throwing nukes at each other? Will there be room for Pokemon without these abilities? Who will stop Talonflame? Will Mega Kangaskhan be reclassified as an Ultra Beast?
linkandzelda
Member
I expect slightly more than Gen VI but no more than 90 new Pokemon, where a "new Pokemon" is defined as something with a unique National Pokedex number above 721.
However I think that Megas, Alolan Forms and Ultra Beasts (if they aren't Pokemon) all take about as much time and effort to develop as new Pokemon.
Agree with the rest of your post, but I've no idea why you would think that is a possibility. Ultra Beasts seem to be significantly different to other Pokemon (If indeed they are Pokemon at all) so it'd be weird for one to be related to an old Pokemon.
I challenge that statement.
Pretty sure Forkball is joking though,
and so am I. 
Or am I? 
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
Absolutely not, the low count of new Pokemon was one of the worst things about XY, imo.
I'm hoping Megas will be back too (postgame, as you say), but it seems like Gamefreak realized the mistake of Megas, which is that the new meta is find a mega + build a team around it. So they made Z moves, which is something every pokemon can use with the same item restriction. A decent move to help things become more balanced
... Then went full 180 and gave specific pokemon Z moves. If you see a Snorlax or Eevee in competitive play, you can bet you know what's coming next.
ZiggyPalffyLA
Member
I don't understand this, I'd rather have 50 well-designed and balanced Pokémon than 150 forgettable ones. Not to mention, we already have 700+ Pokémon, why do we need so many more?
Because people like seeing new pokemon.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
One of my favorite things about playing new generations of Pokemon is seeing all the new Pokemon. The "Quantity=/=Quality" logic doesn't really apply to me since Gen 5 has one of my favorite overall rosters of Pokemon. I think every new gen should at least have 100.
Mega Garchomp is useless, dude is completely made redundant by regular Garchomp with Life Orb, as well as being slower than regular Chomp to boot, there's literally no reason to use him when you're restricted to one Mega a match, there's far better choices. Mega "Why does this even exist?" Latios suffers from this same problem as well.
Honestly, any Mega not named Kangaskhan, Salamence, Rayquaza, Mawile, Gengar, Lucario and maybe Mewtwo X and Y (this one is debatable) might as well just be deleted from the game, because the gap in usefulness and effectiveness between them and the rest of the Megas is fucking huge.
On a similar vein, Primal Groudon also needs to be deleted from the game, not because he's useless, oh no, he's the opposite, he's fucking broken, and is far more a of problem in PvP than Mega Rayquaza, especially in VGC. Thankfully he won't be allowed in VGC 17.
I can't wait until the SM release and we get to see Complete Zygarde, if the rumours about him are true then I expect complete pandemonium in the competitive scene.
Yep, unless the Z-form rumours which give us Pokemon similar to Ash Greninja are true, stat boosts and all, then Megas will continue to be the first choice to use over Z-moves.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I challenge that statement.
Pretty sure Forkball is joking though,and so am I.
I hate this missingno meme
"Meme", in what sense?
Damn autocorrect, I meant Milotic.
If Perfect Zygarde isn't the most broken Pokemon in existence then GF has clearly failed at designing this game.
PadWarrior
Member
Wonder if salandit evolves.
Starwolf_UK
Member
I seem to remember hearing somewhere when introducing Jangmo-o did give an example of the soundproof ability blocking Mega Gardevoir's hyper voice. Seems odd to specifically mention mega there (and gardevoir at all...especially since we know now that Eevee is found in Alola...or if not why show us the Z-move
). I can't find it on the official US Pokemon site and even if it was say coro coro it might have been something added by some none the wiser magazine editor or something so it probably doesn't mean anything.BodiesWithoutOrgans
Member
I'm sure it will have 1 stage maybe two if it's this gen sandile
God Dayumm
Banned
Yeah, that's basically the point of Pokemon. I don't play the games for their exhilarating story or their rewarding challenge...
Probably. Nothing about it makes it seem like a fully evolved Pokemon.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Missingno in general
If youre a bit younger, maybe you simply cant appreciate the context behind it appropriately. Missingno. pulls off being a Legend better than many real Legendary Pokémon. It was a massive phenomenon during its time, and one that grew genuinely and organically. To this day, Im perfectly open to the idea of Game Freak canonizing it as a real Pokémon.
And even if they never do Its still real to me dammit.
IceDoesntHelp
Banned
Mushroom pokemon?
GiantBreadbug
Member
You wanna talk about not understanding things? The thing about the whole "quality vs quantity" thing with the Pokémon roster?
They. Are. Not. Mutually. Exclusive.
The scenario you described has NEVER happened. Ever. No, not even Gen V. It was a strong gen with many popular strong designs and there just does not exist the ability to use objective critical analysis to say otherwise.
Gen VI did not introduce fewer Pokémon because they wanted to do a small batch of "well designed" Pokémon lol. It was because of Megas, which take the same resources to develop as a new Pokémon.
Also, can we PLEASE stop pretending that the number of Pokémon being high is a problem in ANY way, shape, or form? You seriously think they're going to either drastically slow or halt altogether the creation of new Pokémon just because they don't want the number too high? Why is that a good idea?
The success of Pokémon as a series, and frankly the reason I even keep playing, is for new Pokémon (this includes regional forms and Megas). First of all, every new Pokémon brings a new dynamic to the battle system with different combinations of moves, abilities, types, etc. This alone is enough to justify the creation of Pokémon into oblivion. But aside from that, each Pokémon created is made with inspirations and folklore, and these creatures are loved (yes, even the ones you may not like). I am a lover of all Pokémon, so I guess it's easier for me to think this way, but holy fuck how can someone not get excited at the prospect of a shitload of new Pokémon to discover? That's literally the best part of playing a new generation. I love seeing every new design and the inspirations and thought that goes into them, and then I love doing crazy shit with them in battle.
Why in the world would they weaken their greatest marketing tool? New Pokémon are the life of the series. Period. Even if they stopped introducing new Pokémon and just started doing Megas and regional variants, then you would most definitely stop bringing new people into the franchise and its overall health would suffer.
I mean it's frankly outrageous. I understand that there are balance considerations to be taken when the roster gets large, but any problems with balance that Pokémon has right now are related to Megas, NOT the number of Pokémon overall. If anything, numerous lower-tier Pokémon carving unique niches in the meta is what makes Pokémon fun for me.
I would bet that the only thing TPC gives a shit about when it comes to the number of Pokémon is that they can hit 1000 at an opportunistic time for marketing purposes. Other than that, I think any perception of them trying to slow the growth of the Pokémon roster just because of the strange abstraction that "it's bad to have too many Pokémon" is just a misperception (and if they are doing it, then I would hope that they'll stop and realize how bad it is for the series).
Let's please stop pretending that there's really any reason to "take it easy" on new Pokémon. There's no valid reason for it ("I don't like modern designs" isn't one). I'll be incredibly disappointed if there are less than 100 new Pokémon in Gen VII. It was one of the reasons Gen VI felt lifeless and boring to me, but I think Gen VII is shaping up to have a decent number of new mon. That's good, because the designs so far are so fuckin good that I wanna see ~120 for sure (pls around the size of the Hoenn Dex).
Yeah basically a tl;dr of my post :v
IceDoesntHelp
Banned
Oh yes. I forgot about that one.
Probably, though how it evolves is another story entirely.
SciencePilot
Member
Does anyone understand what the bottom half of this Pokemon is meant to be? It has mushrooms popping out of its head, but what's the rest of it? Is that what mushrooms actually look like underground...?
Tired of seeing Pidgeys and Zubats in every game.
Usually I'd agree with you on Pokemon related matters but I don't think so here. The fact that Megas revert back to an original form suggests they aren't a separate species. Just a brief and more powerful transformation. How they're marketed doesn't really matter. In the end, after battle, they revert back to their true nature.
These new forms aren't something they can revert back and from to, it's an inherent evolution/adaptation of another version of a Pokemon. New species.
NeonZ
Member
The problem with going that route is that it means end-game teams will always have one of those old Megas, unless they make it conflict with the Z rings or something. And in that case unless the Z Ring moves are much more useful than people expect it'd be easier to see the Megas taking priority over Z moves in most people's teams.
teacupcopter
Banned
So I played red back in the day and gold as well, however after that never really played it much. Picked up one of the GBA versions but never beat it.
Due to Pokémon go and a friend playing monster hunter picked up a 3ds (the newer big one) and monster hunter, omega ruby and Pokemon x
Been playing ruby so far and loving it, gonna play x after. A few questions!
1. How easy will it be to move my Pokemon to sun or moon? I won't want to do it until later I reckon as I'd want to play around with the Pokemon on offer there.
2. Is there a good resource where I can read up on everything new in sun and moon? Or just how it'll be? It feels like I've come in late and don't know what's up other than no gyms (what is the game about then?) and a snow based sandslash. I saw someone talking about no HM slaves (yes!) does they mean no hms at all or some other system? Basically is there a link to show me what's going on rather than googling the last year of random articles?
3. Can I get the old games on the virtual console? Is it worth it? Can I someone get the Pokemon from those games in my new games?
4. Finally is heart gold/ / soul silver good? I loved gold especially since it had two! World maps. If heart gold has this I'd die. Does it have both maps?
Due to Pokémon go and a friend playing monster hunter picked up a 3ds (the newer big one) and monster hunter, omega ruby and Pokemon x
Been playing ruby so far and loving it, gonna play x after. A few questions!
1. How easy will it be to move my Pokemon to sun or moon? I won't want to do it until later I reckon as I'd want to play around with the Pokemon on offer there.
2. Is there a good resource where I can read up on everything new in sun and moon? Or just how it'll be? It feels like I've come in late and don't know what's up other than no gyms (what is the game about then?) and a snow based sandslash. I saw someone talking about no HM slaves (yes!) does they mean no hms at all or some other system? Basically is there a link to show me what's going on rather than googling the last year of random articles?
3. Can I get the old games on the virtual console? Is it worth it? Can I someone get the Pokemon from those games in my new games?
4. Finally is heart gold/ / soul silver good? I loved gold especially since it had two! World maps. If heart gold has this I'd die. Does it have both maps?
1. Really easy. You just need a Pokemon Bank subscription. The ability to move Pokemon to Sun and Moon won't be available until January.
2.. The official website is your best stop for info. http://www.pokemon-sunmoon.com/en-us/
3. Red, Blue, and Yellow are available on the virtual console. You will be able to transfer Pokemon from the to Sun/Moon using Pokemon Bank.
4. Yes they are.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Because that's the main attraction of a new Pokemon game for a lot of people.
Also, there is no guarantee that the old Pokemon available will include a bunch I haven't used before, while having a dumpload of new Pokémon will.
They've been knocking it out of the park so far design wise with this gens new Pokémon. Even if there are some duds in whats left I bet there would also be a decent amount of good ones.
Prob one time. I dont see it staying single staged.
I can't wait for tunicate pokemon
This is me when people mention "But we already have that animal as a Pokemon" ignoring that in real life there can be various types of that animal.
MegaManTrigger
Banned
Except the person you quoted never made any mention about the criteria being only "outside of battle." It makes sense why people wouldn't link Megas to new species, whereas Alola forms are. For one, Mega-Evolution is simply a change that occurs at a particular point in time involving an item. It's more similar to stuff like legendaries changing their form through gimmicks. After all, you never see Giratina having a different species name after changing to Origin Forme, or how W-Kyurem/B-Kyurem are still considered the Boundary Pokemon in the dex after taking on Reshiram's/Zekrom's properties. Compare this to Alolan forms where the implication is that a region's different climate and ecosystem has resulted in Pokemon changing from their original properties to something completely new. With biology in mind, it goes to reason that this Alola forms are completely new species from the original Pokemon's species (until otherwise stated by GF). Therefore, if legendaries do not change species information, then there's no reason to believe that Megas are similar to Alola forms whatsoever.
That being said, it makes no sense to care that much about marketing regarding the forms as "New Pokemon." It really only refers to Pokemon that people do not know about with regards to the game content, but doesn't always suggest that it's a completely different Pokemon. It's marketing at its finest. Furthermore, having their own lore/balance/design doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things. It doesn't change that it's still a temporary change that exists within a Pokemon at a specific point, and that it's still the same old species name.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
If youre a bit younger, maybe you simply cant appreciate the context behind it appropriately. Missingno. pulls off being a Legend better than many real Legendary Pokémon. It was a massive phenomenon during its time, and one that grew genuinely and organically. To this day, Im perfectly open to the idea of Game Freak canonizing it as a real Pokémon.
And even if they never do Its still real to me dammit.
no I was already 10 when pokemania come out so don't lecture me about it
basically I hate that old garbage being regurgitated in modern context despite all evidences that it's just a bad code, it's as bad as mew under the truck meme, it's like people intentionally referring to pluto as a planet because it's nostalgic