Phil Spencer: Some reviewers give games low scores to get more clicks

Vegetable Lasagna said:
BS? Every time MS does something we get a shit show of a thread here about it to dump on them. Sony does the same thing and we get a thread about how hilarious it was.

Best example is MS's recent online marketing pointing out Xbox has UHD and HDR and the PlayStation 4 Pro doesn't. MS is clearly juvenile and using scummy marketing tactics was the shtick... But when Sony did it during E3 with the used games lie everyone thought it was just hilarious and good marketing, BS? Nah, fact.
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Damn some people really take this stuff seriously 😳
 
Vegetable Lasagna said:
BS? Every time MS does something we get a shit show of a thread here about it to dump on them. Sony does the same thing and we get a thread about how hilarious it was.

Best example is MS's recent online marketing pointing out Xbox has UHD and HDR and the PlayStation 4 Pro doesn't. MS is clearly juvenile and using scummy marketing tactics was the shtick... But when Sony did it during E3 with the used games lie everyone thought it was just hilarious and good marketing, BS? Nah, fact.
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Nah it's bullshit, Sony gets enough flack when they deserve it. No 4K playback? No Skyrim mods? PS Plus price hike? And now I'm only naming up recent things. Don't act like people over here think Sony can do no wrong.
 
He's right. I only click on low reviews to see why they reviewed low. Often times the low review doesn't match what is written.
 
While almost certainly true, the claim is impossible to prove unless someone kills their career getting that info out. Best Phil gets out of this is igniting another online battle between corporate boot lickers and conspiracy theorists.
 
Sumio Mondo said:
Eh. I just see it as him blowing off some steam due to things not working out.
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Yeah I think so too. I think first having Quantum Break, a game they heavily marketed and from a legendary developer, score lower than expected, and then having ReCore score poorly probably got to him a bit.

He shouldn't have gone after reviewers, but I can understand where it came from.
 
Na it's fair and kinda makes sense. People do this shit or are overly harsh at a game or biased. Was the game amazing no it was a good game with flaws.

But reviewers have always been in question since "too much water" or the review on Neir that's infamous. Sometimes I just think people will tear into a game to set themselves apart or do the bad thing of judging a game for what it's not instead of what it does. Sure this might be Phil likes the game and he feels hurt that reviews are being so harsh can't blame him entirely.

Also to the whole more clicks thing I am more tempted to look at a lower review than the rest compared to the highest score.

Edit: I know 60's isn't a bad score but a lot of people think it's a terrible score. Just like the people saying gears of war 4 is getting meh reviews while it's getting an average of 80-85. 60 just look bad to some people's eyes.
 
What a thread, well done boys

Crapgamer, SonyToo (and its counterpart PleaseDontMentionSonyOrMyPostHistory) Battles over which video game executive has the best morality, Metacritic penis measuring and many more incase you were wondering whether some posts here are just an articulate and extended cut of Gamefaqs
 
Statistically speaking, a reviewer somewhere has done this at one point or another. Just the nature of the beast.
Though obviously not to some extent that it's a mob or anything.
 
Didn't Horizon 2 get a TWO out of 10? And Halo 4? From the same site, even?

I hate Spencer, but I can't really blame him for that comment. He has seen some bullshit.
 
More_Badass said:
He makes the mistake of assuming that a review score is a measure of a game's quality, when it's actually a representation of how much that individual person enjoyed the game.
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It really shouldn't be though.

That's what happened to Lost Planet 2 where almost everyone I knew cancelled their pre-orders and the game subsequently died because IGN had no idea dodging made you invincible

"You're guaranteed to die at bosses! You need to enter the fight with a certain amount of extra lives otherwise it's impossible!" -- paraphrasing here

As of right now, all ReCore scores are warranted because of the fucking patch that broke the PC's resolution settings.

MS QA team should have helped out
 
A bit of a critical statement from Phil there. But there is some truth to it, some people do it for the clicks. What do we call it again... Clickbait?
 
C'mon guys! You really don't get it? Phil didn't bring this up because he wants to state a fact or something like that, it's quite obvious he wants to blame most of the bad scores on "clickbait" reviews.
 
Salty Hippo said:
Didn't Horizon 2 get a TWO out of 10? And Halo 4? From the same site, even?

I hate Spencer, but I can't really blame him for that comment. He has seen some bullshit.
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Forza Horizon 2 had a 2/10. Forza Horizon 3 had a 4/10. The funny thing is that the reviewer that gave FH2 1/5 stars gave The Crew his overall GOTY. I mean, opinions and everything, but yeah. That's like giving UC4 2/10 then turning around and giving ReCore GOTY lol.
 
Vegetable Lasagna said:
BS? Every time MS does something we get a shit show of a thread here about it to dump on them. Sony does the same thing and we get a thread about how hilarious it was.

Best example is MS's recent online marketing pointing out Xbox has UHD and HDR and the PlayStation 4 Pro doesn't. MS is clearly juvenile and using scummy marketing tactics was the shtick... But when Sony did it during E3 with the used games lie everyone thought it was just hilarious and good marketing, BS? Nah, fact.
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I see. So, you're saying that this is evidence that NeoGAF has a clear bias towards Sony. Would you say that you're feeling persecuted?
 
SgtCobra said:
Nah it's bullshit, Sony gets enough flack when they deserve it. No 4K playback? No Skyrim mods? PS Plus price hike? And now I'm only naming up recent things. Don't act like people over here think Sony can do no wrong.
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Great, but that's not what he's saying in his post. I think the point isn't that Sony never faces any criticism, but that they take less criticism for the same actions relative to if MS had done it.

I don't know if that is necessarily true in general terms, but it's corroborated by the single example that he pointed out.
 
professor_t said:
Great, but that's not what he's saying in his post. I think the point isn't that Sony never faces any criticism, but that they take less criticism for the same actions relative to if MS had done it.

I don't know if that is necessarily true in general terms, but it's corroborated by the single example that he pointed out.
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An anti-consumer BS plan by MS is way different than not having an UHD in PS4 pro. Not even close.
 
professor_t said:
Great, but that's not what he's saying in his post. I think the point isn't that Sony never faces any criticism, but that they take less criticism for the same actions relative to if MS had done it.

I don't know if that is necessarily true in general terms, but it's corroborated by the single example that he pointed out.
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The single example that is factually incorrect?

The problem isn't that reviewers are daring to have opinions that skew from the mean, it's that sales are overly influenced by Metacritic scores. The review that scores FH3 2/5 stars (the horror!) backs up its score with thoughtful points. You may disagree with them but it's completely valid. Pretty unprofessional of Phil to vent about it.

Head.spawn said:
Why does the OP reference Recore, when the quote in the article is clearly a follow up after stating that some reviewer gave Forza Horizon 3 a 4/10 (a 91 aggregate rated game).

He is clearly talking about Forza with that specific comment IMO.

Wouldn't it make more sense to post a picture of FH3s score, then the 4/10 review?

Seems a bit to intentional given how obvious the statement reads.
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Read the whole paragraph, it's all wrapped up in the same thought.
 
Why does the OP reference Recore, when the quote in the article is clearly a follow up after stating that some reviewer gave Forza Horizon 3 a 4/10 (a 91 aggregate rated game).

He is clearly talking about Forza with that specific comment IMO.

Wouldn't it make more sense to post a picture of FH3s score, then the 4/10 review?

Seems a bit to intentional given how obvious the statement reads.

Noobcraft said:
Forza Horizon 2 had a 2/10. Forza Horizon 3 had a 4/10. The funny thing is that the reviewer that gave FH2 1/5 stars gave The Crew his overall GOTY. I mean, opinions and everything, but yeah. That's like giving UC4 2/10 then turning around and giving ReCore GOTY lol.
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Exactly. Funny how people are pretending clickbait is unheard of and beyond reproach now because MS.
 
Head.spawn said:
Why does the OP reference Recore, when the quote in the article is clearly a follow up after stating that some reviewer gave Forza Horizon 3 a 4/10 (a 91 aggregate rated game).

He is clearly talking about Forza with that specific comment IMO.

Wouldn't it make more sense to post a picture of FH3s score, then the 4/10 review?

Seems a bit to intentional given how obvious the statement reads.
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Think about why he makes that statement unprompted.
 
Head.spawn said:
Why does the OP reference Recore, when the quote in the article is clearly a follow up after stating that some reviewer gave Forza Horizon 3 a 4/10 (a 91 aggregate rated game).

He is clearly talking about Forza with that specific comment IMO.

Wouldn't it make more sense to post a picture of FH3s score, then the 4/10 review?

Seems a bit to intentional given how obvious the statement reads.



Exactly. Funny how Pepe are pretending clickbait is unheard of and beyond reproach now because MS.
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C'mon, he's talking about Recore too. Did you even read the quote?
 
pastrami said:
Think about why he makes that statement unprompted.
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He's clearly attempting to push the idea that not all negative reviews are reflective of the product. But for shit sure, he makes that statement specifically about Forza Horizon 3 as an example of how low scores aren't always reflector of quality.

Chobel said:
C'mon, he's talking about Recore too. Did you even read the quote?
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"Recore too".

Too... as in, as well.

Why isn't Forza Horizon 3 referenced "too"? Maybe my intent want clear.
 
Cobalt Izuna said:
It really shouldn't be though.
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But reviews don't work like that, be it for games, books, movies, etc.

Movies like The Thing and The Shining were not well received at release, and yet are considered genre classics today. The movies never changed, but people's opinion did. Thus reviews aren't about a work's qualities, but someone's impressions of those qualities. That's how poorly-received games or movies can be considered cult classics and masterpieces years later.
 
Head.spawn said:
He's clearly attempting to push the idea that not all negative reviews are reflective of the product. But for shit sure, he makes that statement specifically about Forza Horizon 3 as an example of how low scores aren't always reflector of quality.
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Either Phil is Trump bad when it comes to making cohesive sentences or in this sentence he talking about both.

But we're very proud of how the game ended up. And I think seven, eight, nine, like anywhere in there is fine. Three or four… I mean somebody gave Forza Horizon 3 a four. I think there's certain reviews that are written more to get clicked on than they are to actually accurately reflect the quality of the game, and that kind of bums me out.
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Do you really believe he stopped talking about Recore mid sentence?

It's freaking obvious, paraphrasing here. "ReCore deserves the 7-9, but these 3-4s? just like that one of Forza Horizon 3 these are ridiculous and made for clicks"

Head.spawn said:
"Recore too".

Too... as in, as well.

Why isn't Forza Horizon 3 referenced "too"? Maybe my intent want clear.
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Yep, he's lumping all scores of 4 together.
 
Head.spawn said:
Why does the OP reference Recore, when the quote in the article is clearly a follow up after stating that some reviewer gave Forza Horizon 3 a 4/10 (a 91 aggregate rated game).

He is clearly talking about Forza with that specific comment IMO.

Wouldn't it make more sense to post a picture of FH3s score, then the 4/10 review?

Seems a bit to intentional given how obvious the statement reads.



Exactly. Funny how people are pretending clickbait is unheard of and beyond reproach now because MS.
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He's answering this question:

How do you feel about the response to ReCore from critics, given it was highlighted as one of the major Xbox One exclusives?

Also I don't think anyone in this thread has "pretended" clickbait doesn't exist. I will admit I am wrong if you can find a single post from someone saying that.

The issue people are having is that a head of a company shouldn't be blaming poor reviews on that.


Putting all that aside, I mean in the end how does it even make it any better if he's talking about Recore or FH3 or both? I don't really get why some people are so insistent on pinning it on FH3 and FH3 only. The thread title already makes it even broader by just saying "Some reviewers give games low scores for clicks"
 
Vegetable Lasagna said:
BS? Every time MS does something we get a shit show of a thread here about it to dump on them. Sony does the same thing and we get a thread about how hilarious it was.

Best example is MS's recent online marketing pointing out Xbox has UHD and HDR and the PlayStation 4 Pro doesn't. MS is clearly juvenile and using scummy marketing tactics was the shtick... But when Sony did it during E3 with the used games lie everyone thought it was just hilarious and good marketing, BS? Nah, fact.
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Sharing PS4 games was as simple as the Adam Boyes - Shuhei Yoshida skit demonstrated, back then and now.

The only lie is yours, every PS4 supports HDR and PS4 Pro supports UHD rendered games and video, just not UHD Blu-ray Discs.
 
FinaruDensetsu said:
He's answering this question:

How do you feel about the response to ReCore from critics, given it was highlighted as one of the major Xbox One exclusives?

Also I don't think anyone in this thread has "pretended" clickbait doesn't exist. I will admit I am wrong if you can find a single post from someone saying that.

The issue people are having is that a head of a company shouldn't be blaming poor reviews on that.
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I agree, he shouldn't have gone down this road.

I honestly think he's just venting here...he definitely has passion in the products/games he helps make (which I think is quite obvious), so I'm sure there's just some disappointment seeping into this interview.

I think this happens to Phil a lot because he does often come off as rather genuine/human, perhaps more than most people in positions like his...

He probably should run things by PR before these interviews more often than he does.

FinaruDensetsu said:
Putting all that aside, I mean in the end how does it even make it any better if he's talking about Recore or FH3 or both?
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I think the distinction is important because he's going on a tangent about game reviews in general, and is using FH3 and Recore as examples of how some reviewers exploit the system by using controversially-low scores to generate clicks (i.e. clickbait).

I understand the question was about Recore, specifically, but he brought up it and FH3 as examples of how these kind of reviews "bum" him out.

I don't think what he's saying is really all that crazy or "out there" - but again, being in the position he's in, he should have shown a little more restraint.
 
there seems to be a double standard on what is acceptable and understood to be true by gaffers at large and the head of xbox. we say a lot of the same things all the time, some reviews CLEARLY seem to be written and scored in such a way to generate interest and clicks. i dont know why phil saying this is bad.

but recore is probably a bad example to use. i havent followed reviews closely enough to say for sure, but a lower overall review score seems in line with impressions/expectations i've seen.
 
Head.spawn said:
Sorry. Just put my two week notice in today, so day drinking to celebrate.

Clarified in my response i hope.
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You say the "clicks" part was only about FH3, however the structure of his answer suggests it's not just about that one particular review, he's implying many (most?) bad reviews of Recore come from some reviewers who wanted to increase site traffic.
 
There are certainly some review sites that employ this tactic... but it's definitely in the minority and it's not worth mentioning in the long run.
 
justsomeguy said:
Literally no quotes on that point - I want to see his exact wording.
edit: found this quote from the clicked-thru full interview:



So - he was talking about a FH3 review... but in the context of Recore scores.


Also found this pretty shitty from the interview:
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Didn't some fanboys get in an elevator with Shuhei Yoshida and intimidated him or some such? There's always gonna be assholes online, but doing it in person is creepy as hell.
 
Chobel said:
You say the "clicks" part was only about FH3, however the structure of his answer suggests it's not just about that one particular review, he's implying many (most?) bad reviews of Recore come from some reviewers who wanted to increase site traffic.
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I think he's saying that some reviews, in general for all games, are written this way (controversially-low scored reviews to generate clicks). And that it's also possible that Recore received some lower scores than it deserved, in his eyes.

Of course, he probably shouldn't have mentioned this being the head of Xbox (and the bad look that goes with that connection)...but I honestly feel like the negativity got to him, and was venting a bit.
 
TBiddy said:
True and I'm not playing the "blame game" in anyway. But the OP should be updated to reflect this, I think.



Math tells me that 2/5 = 4/10.. so in that sense, it's 100% correct.
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I don't think that's how reviewers who use the 5 point system view it. A 5 point scale is closer to an A-F grading system. If your game gets a 1 out of 5, then you're anywhere in the 0-59 range, meaning an F. It doesn't matter how close you are to a D, you still got an F. Sure, it's even worse if you get 0/100 but a failure's a failure.

Whoever rated FH3 a 2/5 is saying it's a D, somewhere in the 60s. Or maybe I'm off and these rating systems are abstract and we should listen to the opinions more than what the reviewer thinks the appropriate number is based on their opinion.
 
From what I've been reading the core game is great but is way too short and has some bad PS2-era jank. Is a low 60s aggregate really that bad given that?
 
If the scores for Recore were 9/10, 9/10, 4/10, 10/10, then I can see where he's coming from, but it didn't. Recore absolutely deserves that score and not everyone that reviewed it was "doing it for clicks".
 
Chobel said:
You say the "clicks" part was only about FH3, however the structure of his answer suggests it's not just about that one particular review, he's implying many (most?) bad reviews of Recore come from some reviewers who wanted to increase site traffic.
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I'd say Recore was a bad pick for that argument, FH3 as an example is definitely accurate.

I'm not saying he should've lumped both points together to attempt to say they are equal situations, but if it's part of the same statement, it's weird that only one set of scores is represented in the OP.
 
"On the subject of ReCore, Spencer went on to say that he wished the game had been received better; some reviews were a "little harsh," he said. He also suggested that some reviewers scored it lower than the average specifically to increase site traffic. But at the same time, he said the review scores are not necessarily a reflection of the game's importance to Microsoft. Also, the game is "selling well" and gamers are receiving it positively. "The gamers' response to the game has been positive, which is the most important thing," he said."


Clearly he was referencing Recore. Bad move imo
 
ReCore may not be the best example to use, but clickbait reviews are a thing, and Phil isn't wrong. Massive outlier scores should be looked at with scrutiny, like Halo 4's 2/10 and Forza's 4/10.
 
I think the final act (those fucking prismatic cores) killed the game for a lot of reviewers. Pretty much every reviewer agrees the game starts on a very high note and then plummets by the end.

I can see why the scores are low when the most recent experience of the game they have (the final act) is awful.
 
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