• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

Red Dead Redemption 2 (Fall 2017, PS4/XB1, Trailer 10/20 @ 11 AM EST) announced

What will ultimately anger people the most about this game?

Results are only viewable after voting.
GravityInsanity said:
What a time to be a gamer.

2017
Horizon Zero Dawn
Cyberpunk 2077
Red Dead Redemption 2

2018
God of War
Spider-Man PS4
Death Stranding
Bloodborne 2 (I know it won't happen but I still believe)

giphy.gif
Click to expand...
I was hoping that Spider-man PS4 would be a 2017 title but I guess that isn't too likely :(
 
Eidan said:
On a forum where people bitch and moan about any and everything related to games, the one issue that they shouldn't discuss is gender and racial diversity. This post is a fucking joke.
Click to expand...

In this case, he was discussing about people thinking they can force their opinion on anyone (coders and software houses in this case) via trolling or mobbing via internet, for having NOT the game they want, but the game they think everybody want OR should be fine to have, regardless of the original picture the writers and coders of the game had in mind.
 
ninjablade said:
I already know this, you're missing my point. i'm talking about the setting, if you think about every classic gangster movie, they never included a woman as being as one of the guys being a gangster. obviously because they thought it wouldn't match the setting, guy don't the same when a woman is around for one thing.
Click to expand...
Yeah...that's not why those movies, either gangster or western, didn't include women
 
Tigress said:
Nope, but on the other hand they are trying to sell a game to us. So yeah, listening to criticism might be in their best interest cause if enough people don't like it, it won't sell well.

They can make whatever game they want. We don't have to buy it. And remember, in the end they want us to buy it.
Click to expand...

Oh, but it will sell well. That is a guarantee.
 
This thread is gonna be a graveyard soon enough. Some seriously Ignorant ass shit being posted.


Im there day one. I loved RDR and recently replayed it through Bc. If it has a decent Scorpio mode I'll be in for that too.

Fuck I'm so excited for this!

Playing as Bills old gang is gonna be bad ass. Through RDR I was saying over to myslef how cool it'd be for a prequel featuring the gang.

Hype is through the roof for this. Rockstar are undoubtedly the nest developers in business so I know they'll deliver as always
 
ninjablade said:
I already know this, you're missing my point. i'm talking about the setting, if you think about every classic gangster movie, they never included a woman as being as one of the guys being a gangster. obviously because they thought it wouldn't match the setting, guy don't the same when a woman is around for one thing.
Click to expand...
I don't think you know jack shit about the reason why women and minorities are kept out of hollywood, it's not because "it wouldn't match the setting." It's literally the complete opposite. You've undoubtedly heard of whitewashing before so it's unbelievably telling why "it just wouldn't fit the setting and women are nice and friendly and obviously wouldn't be attractive if they're also gangsters" is the hill you're trying to die on.
 
icespide said:
there def won't be play anywhere but RDR BC free with game + scorpio will do quite well for them i think
Click to expand...

Oh, I definitely agree, that's a pie in the sky type of scenario for MS. But that bundle is definitely going to happen I believe...they would be stupid not to.
 
Finale Fireworker said:
Also, people saying there were not female gunslingers is literally why representation matters. Less, yes. None, no.

One of the most famous icons of the Wild West, Annie Oakley, was female. So was Calamity Jane. There are at least a dozen prominent female gunslingers that have been appropriately canonized and documented. They should be represented in stories too.

This is like when people say there were no female pirate captains. Few, yes. None, no. The female pirate captains of their day were some of the most feared of their time. Ching Shih was the most successful pirate captain EVER.

But people only tell stories about Blackbeard.

That is the problem. And that is why having a prominent western in 2016 that MAY be about seven men is disappointing.

But we know nothing about the game yet, so let's see what happens.
Click to expand...

Yep posts like "but that's not historically accurate" or ninjablade's whole shtick is why this is important. Representation didn't exist in the 50's when Westerns were popular so people have the absurd view that the whole of the old west was white and male. That's exactly the problem media creators need to avoid.
 
darthkarki said:
"Zero excuse"... So you're saying that someone creating a piece of art literally doesn't have the right to deliver their own vision? Obviously you're not referring to any actual legal requirements as there are none, so you must be saying there is some kind of universal moral imperative that any creator must obey regardless of what they actually feel like making?

I cannot stand this kind of entitled attitude. "How dare anyone create something that doesn't prescribe to my particular sensibilities!" Here's the thing: you can absolutely be disappointed if it's not what you wanted. Everyone has preferences, and you should absolutely tell a company that you are interested in (your preferred experience here). They might even do that at some point. But there is a difference between saying "I'm super disappointed this doesn't have a female protagonist! I would have really liked that" and "Fuck you dev you slimy racist bastards how dare you make the game you want and not the one I want!". That's the problem. The complaint is always that it's wrong that they didn't make what you wanted, which is the definition of entitlement.

This angers me because I want to have the freedom to make what I want to make. I don't want to be yelled at because I told a story that was on my heart, but it wasn't exactly what someone else would have created. The greatest works of art come from creators expressing their visions, because it's a story they have to tell, a picture they have to paint, music they have to write.

There is a TON of media that doesn't interest me. Things like the Saw movies disgust me. I think the world would probably be better off without that, so should I campaign to have those banned? Should I form an oversight committee to govern the direction of a sequel so that it's something I want? Or should I leave the creative direction to the people who actually wanted that to begin with?

Rockstar committed a grave sin here by releasing a picture that only has men in it, which means this is clearly going to be a horrible sexist game, right? So I'm curious. Would you go back in time and complain about Seven Samurai because the leads are men? I mean, that's seven lead characters and they are all men. That's bad, right? And yet, for some reason, as summarized by Wikipedia:



It almost seems like it might have actually been a good movie with a good story despite starring only men. How about The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings? Some of the greatest, most influential works of fiction in history, and they predominantly star men. Do you know why? Because these are the stories and the characters that the creators wanted to create.

Here's the truth: there are a lot of video games, that feature all manner of characters. Are there not as many representing what you are looking for? Here's an idea. Don't demand a creator change their vision to match yours. Instead of bitching about it, go make the game you want. That's what I'm doing. I will enjoy what media I enjoy, and will add what I think is missing.
Click to expand...

Dragonslayer_023 said:
A+ post, tired of all this "no excuses" bull and whining masquerading as "criticism."
Click to expand...

Totally agreed. I think it would be cool if there was a native American and a woman in this lineup (of which we have NO IDEA WHAT IT EVEN REPRESENTS) but what bums me out isn't that they aren't there but the idea that when creating RDR2 Rockstar would have to go down a checklist so we can allow them to make their story.

I'm just getting tired of the outrage every week.
 
God damn this whole thread is a fucking jump to conclusions mat. You know nothing of the game, chill out people. Sheesh.

Cannot wait for next fall!
 
Since Marston's voice actor seems to have retired from acting...what does this mean for the character in this game? Replacement? :|
 
No doubt there's Rockstar and Take 2 folks browsing this thread!

First of all-THANK YOU! Long overdue and I'm sure the game will be amazing.

Also, please consider supporting Nintendo and the NX with the game please!

Thursday shall be glorious!
 
optimus8936 said:
Yes I watch TV and movies because theyre fun to watch, is that wrong?

And it is just about fun. That's the whole point of video games.

To have fun. I could care less about the story or the characters if the gameplay is ass. That's what keeps people going. Look at Destiny for an example. That game has pretty much no story and no meaningful characters, yet it still has a massive player base. Why? Becuase it's fun.
Click to expand...
I'm going to let you in on a secret, people consume art for more than just personal enjoyment.
 
optimus8936 said:
Yes I watch TV and movies because theyre fun to watch, is that wrong?

And it is just about fun. That's the whole point of video games.

To have fun. I could care less about the story or the characters if the gameplay is ass. That's what keeps people going. Look at Destiny for an example. That game has pretty much no story and no meaningful characters, yet it still has a massive player base. Why? Becuase it's fun.
Click to expand...

That's fine if you want to live in your bubble where representation and diversity in media doesn't matter, but don't try and shut down people to whom it does matter.
 
cr0w said:
I'll give it a shot, I just have an anime allergy. I lied when I said I hadn't watched any...I watched Spirited Away with an ex of mine, and I swear it led to our breakup.
Click to expand...

Then watch Saber Riders and the Star Sheriffs. It has a much more 'murican vibe.

tumblr_m5l4i31RxW1r239fno1_400.gif
 
ninjablade said:
I already know this, you're missing my point. i'm talking about the setting, if you think about every classic gangster movie, they never included a woman as being as one of the guys being a gangster. obviously because they thought it wouldn't match the setting, guy don't the same when a woman is around for one thing.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but why are you citing movies over actual history? They fit the setting because they were there. Can I suggest you watch Dredd with Lena Headey to see a woman in a movie as a gang leader?
 
Scientist Supreme! said:
That has nothing to do with my question but ok.
Click to expand...

He has a right to his opinion... people have a right to agree with it. He presented it constructive non-inflamatory manner.

People who agree will like it. People who disagree have been presenting their opinions as well.

Truth be told however...

We still have zero info on this game, outside of the title, and a pic of what seemingly looks like a posse of outlaws. The pre-emptive backlash by some is a little premature.

Nirolak said:
By all means feel free to continue the discussion, but I'd personally at least give them until the trailer before hanging them at The Hague over the representation in the game.

Like we don't even know if you play as all seven characters, or if they're representatives of your initial outlaw gang that could grow and change over the title.
Click to expand...

.
 
Snkfanatic said:
Yeah man they should have told us the story of John Marston's Great Great Great Great Great Great Great Great Great Great Great Great Grandson. That would have been awesome, hell they could have released it as a DLC for GTA Online.
Click to expand...
Yeah, there's no more than four generations between you and John Marston
 
Dangansona said:
Totally agreed. I think it would be cool if there was a native American and a woman in this lineup (of which we have NO IDEA WHAT IT EVEN REPRESENTS) but what bums me out isn't that they aren't there but the idea that when creating RDR2 Rockstar would have to go down a checklist so we can allow them to make their story.

I'm just getting tired of the outrage every week.
Click to expand...

i'm getting tired of people lamenting about how tired they are of all this outrage
 
ninjablade said:
I already know this, you're missing my point. i'm talking about the setting, if you think about every classic gangster movie, they never included a woman as being as one of the guys being a gangster. obviously because they thought it wouldn't match the setting, guy don't the same when a woman is around for one thing.
Click to expand...

Why do you keep bringing up gangster media as if the treatment of women in those stories hasn't been heavily criticized for decades, with women in them coming off as shrieky, annoying love interest obstacles for the cool, macho gangsters to trample on and push out of the way to keep doing cool gangster stuff?

And even if you want to go with the line of thinking that women were kept out of the boys club, they were still there, and they were still humans with stories to tell beyond being some C-tier side character.
 
Domcorleone said:
But why does art HAVE to be all encompassing all the time? Personally, I am more interested in people being honest with the stories they want to tell. I do think sexism and racism exist in videogames and in particular, film but that doesn't mean I want the creators to always change their original vision to cater to a mass audience. That is precisely how whitewashing works.
Click to expand...

Because

a) when you're at the top of the hill, you bear more responsibility. Nobody's asking why independent games aren't representing marginalized people more (aside from, y'know, they already do). But a major game by a major publisher has way more eyes on it, and if attitudes are going to change, they're the ones that need to budge and step outside the same box of "everyone that matters is a white dude... oh except for the one person of color to 'mix things up'."

b) again, how long until that "original vision" is a pattern across all their games?

c) including diverse voices =/= whitewashing
 
ThatEuroGuy said:
In this case, he was discussing about people thinking they can force their opinion on anyone (coders and software houses in this case) via trolling or mobbing via internet, for having NOT the game they want, but the game they think everybody want OR should be fine to have, regardless of the original picture the writers and coders of the game had in mind.
Click to expand...

Forcing? Mobbing? I'm sorry, but what's the line between "SHOVING YOUR OPINION DOWN DEVELOPERS' THROATS" and simply stating your disappointment in the lack of diversity in the title? Was anyone mobbing or forcing in this thread? Or is it just that you care a lot about the developers' "artistic vision" when it comes to discussions of gender and race representation, and less so when it comes to microtransactions, framerates, and level design?
 
jett said:
Since Marston's voice actor seems to have retired from acting...what does this mean for the character in this game? Replacement? :|
Click to expand...

He likely would of came back. The polygon article seemed like he loves the Rockstar gig and obviously money talks.
 
With the way some folks are straight jumping to conclusions concerning playable characters/representation, just gonna wait for future trailers/info first.
 
Nirolak said:
By all means feel free to continue the discussion, but I'd personally at least give them until the trailer before hanging them at The Hague over the representation in the game.

Like we don't even know if you play as all seven characters, or if they're representatives of your initial outlaw gang that could grow and change over the title.
Click to expand...
If it turns out that this is the game we need to take down and we get a diverse cast I'm quoting each and every single post arguing against diversity in historical settings. Seriously debating whether or not an entirely seperate topic should be made to educate these dudes about history since they seem to take history lessons solely from whitewashed media. ಠ_ಠ
 
oni-link said:
I think everyone is over reacting to what is just a poster

Wait until the trailer before making any kind of judgement or accusation

For all you know some of those characters on the poster identify as female

Edit: beaten by seconds
Click to expand...

For me it's more I'm very hesitant based on RDR. Honestly at first I really saw what everyone was talking about, I liked the game. But I'm going to hold off on RDR2 because the mexico arc (and some of what I'm ocmplaining about also shows up before that but it was really prominent in the mexico arc) really turned me off the game. There was so much shitty story writing, including how they treated females (damsels in distress or just props to show how villianous the villain was) that I honestly don't want to play that again. If the story is just as badly treated in RDR2, I'm not interested (Do not have me walking into a trap and force me to do so while it is obviously a trap and even my character knows it is a trap. And yet he walks blindly right into it... I was yelling no, don't go in there... but of course that's all the game would let me do).

As I said before in this thread, I think i'm more annoyed with how they treated females in RDR than I am in GTA (it wasn't the only issue I had with the story but I think it was a large part. GTA I can agree could do better but it doesn't actively piss me off/turn me off of the game).

To be fair, there was some non story related issues I had with RDR but judging by GTA V, I doubt it will be that bad in RDR 2. The random events being all of five that kept repeating themselves over and over. They were a lot better with GTA V having different ones that didn't have me groaning, "ANother sheriff lost two convicts?".

Though if the story is much improved and they do a more interesting system of getting your horse to like you and fix the random events, I may be interested. But I'm holding my judgement (unless they some how really wow me with the trailer I'm not going to buy day one or near at all).
 
Net_Wrecker said:
And even if you want to go with the line of thinking that women were kept out of the boys club, they were still there, and they were still humans with stories to tell beyond being some c tier character.
Click to expand...

That was also the case in RDR as well tho. Particularly over the other Rockstar games

It would be nice to bump their presence up more in the plot tho if we're not gonna be playing as them
 
Tovarisc said:
Who? What? Never heard of it.
Click to expand...

Cowboy Bebop; Check it out if for nothing else, you will understand a ton of references to other things in the show.

cr0w said:
I'll give it a shot, I just have an anime allergy. I lied when I said I hadn't watched any...I watched Spirited Away with an ex of mine, and I swear it led to our breakup.
Click to expand...

Bruh, that's terrible! Spirited Away is excellent in it's own way, but Bebop is completely different. You can easily just pick up and watch and episode at a time wince they are all pretty condensed stories like a sitcom. Pretty cool stuff.
 
Sushigod7 said:
2077 isn't going to happen in 2017 probably not even 2018.
Click to expand...
Maybe it comes out in......2077 XD
Scientist Supreme! said:
I'm going to let you in on a secret, people consume art for more than just personal enjoyment.
Click to expand...
K? And some people don't? Your point?
Ninja Scooter said:
That's fine if you want to live in your bubble where representation and diversity in media doesn't matter, but don't try and shut down people to whom it does matter.
Click to expand...
I'm not saying it completely doesn't matter, but it's the least of things we should be worrying about IMO.

Honestly it's a shame that the announcement of(knowing Rockstar) what is probably going to be a great game is being overshadowed by the fact that there are no females.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

LTTP: Red Dead Redemption 2
41
386
_Ex_ replied
Red Dead Redemption 2 is Getting a Pokémon Mod
Trailer Indie 
5
34
Gonzito replied
The next-gen version of Red Dead Redemption 2 won't come until late 2027
Rumor Platform 
5
139
MatrixReloaded101 replied
  • Locked
Red Dead Redemption 2 Enhanced Edition
News Rumor  2 3
111
2K
Mr Hyde replied
[IGN] Red Dead Redemption 2 Comparison Videos Are Lying to You
Opinion Analysis 
27
631
Karim replied
Top Bottom