Is the Pokémon "Are you a boy or girl?" thing outdated?

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I'm all for more customization options, but I'm pretty sure the people playing the game understand that the real question is "Which of these designs do you prefer to use for your character?" and not that the game is requiring the player to have fully committed to one of two gender identities before being allowed to begin playing the game.
 
purseowner said:
I don't understand why you're insisting that it creates the issue of 'where do we draw the line' (rhetoric, by the way, that has commonly been used to prevent and reduce representation of minorities).

All I'm suggesting is creating a genderless/gender neutral option. That would please many more people. Doesn't change the fact that specific identities wouldn't be represented in name, but that's a long way off, and a lot of people would be happier with gender neutral pronouns, because at least that wouldn't be misgendering them necessarily.
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Yes 3 options would be better than 2. Still not outdated to have only 2. Extremly common in games. I would prefer 3 or more, but now there's 2. Not awesome, but not outdated.
 
GuitarGuruu said:
I don't believe this is an issue. It's Pokémon.
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We know it's Pokémon, thank you very much.

"It's just a game" is the worst argument ever when raising a serious debate.

-Mutsukki- said:
Do kids... actually complain about this though? Or are you just projecting? I have yet to hear something like this from a kid
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Yes he's going to tell you that like he would tell you that he wants pizza today.

J_Viper said:
I'm playing as a female Wood Elf in Skyrim

The point being, the protagonist of a game doesn't have to be you.

Self-inserting is such a bizarre thing to do, I'll never understand it.
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The game is asking "Are you a boy or a girl ?". It's a game made for children, of course they're projecting themselves into the protagonist.


God this thread is a nightmare of ignorance and stupidity.
 
The12thGripper said:
No, there are 2 genders. I don't see this as an issue and I don't see it changing ever. Game Freak shouldn't have to accommodate for crazy people lmao.
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To translate:

'I have a narrow-minded understanding of identity. I selfishly don't see this as an issue as it doesn't affect me because I have privilege that I fail to recognise. I'd like other people to remain as narrow-minded as me so I can remain comfortably privileged.'
 
As somebody who has zero knowledge about Gender identity, is this also a "problem" in games with fixed protagonists like in Witcher 3? Personally I don't feel "offended" by the thought that they include more options, why would I? If another person feels better without making me feel worse there are zero reasons to oppose this idea.

The12thGripper said:
No, there are 2 genders. I don't see this as an issue and I don't see it changing ever. Game Freak shouldn't have to accommodate for crazy people lmao.
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You seem like a cool dude. Everybody will miss you.

purseowner said:
To translate:

'I have a narrow-minded understanding of identity. I selfishly don't see this as an issue as it doesn't affect me because I have privilege that I fail to recognise. I'd like other people to remain as narrow-minded as me so I can remain comfortably privileged.'
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More like "I don't have this problem and everybody who does is fucking kraaaazzzzzzzzy lol". No need to class it up.

purseowner said:
Games with fixed and defined protagonists aren't the issue. Sure, more diversity in game protagonists at large would be great (and preferably not shoehorned either).

The issue is with player avatars that are meant to represent the player not representing players' identities.
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Ah thanks.
 
Well, I don´t know. It´s a game for kids and kids usually don´t care about this stuff until they grow up? Also in the newer games it looks like there isn´t even the option anymore. You just pick one character.
 
Fantastapotamus said:
As somebody who has zero knowledge about Gender identity, is this also a "problem" in games with fixed protagonists like in Witcher 3? Personally I don't feel "offended" by the thought that they include more options, why would I? If another person feels better without making me feel worse there are zero reasons to oppose this idea.
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Games with fixed and defined protagonists aren't the issue. Sure, more diversity in game protagonists at large would be great (and preferably not shoehorned either).

The issue is with player avatars that are meant to represent the player not representing players' identities.
 
Fantastapotamus said:
As somebody who has zero knowledge about Gender identity, is this also a "problem" in games with fixed protagonists like in Witcher 3? Personally I don't feel "offended" by the thought that they include more options, why would I? If another person feels better without making me feel worse there are zero reasons to oppose this idea.
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As noted, the main problem is the way it's asked with plenty of people saying it'd be fine if it was reworded. Even really progressive companies like Bioware still ask what sex your character is and limits it to male/female.
 
If you're letting the player have input into the nature of their character in the year 2016, I think it makes sense to let them choose using a more flexible system than "THERE IS BOY AND THERE IS GIRL PICK ONE".

Game Freak must be a very, very wealthy company by this point. I'm sure they could afford the extra dev time to expand/rethink their character creation system if they had a mind to.

Fantastapotamus said:
As somebody who has zero knowledge about Gender identity, is this also a "problem" in games with fixed protagonists like in Witcher 3? Personally I don't feel "offended" by the thought that they include more options, why would I? If another person feels better without making me feel worse there are zero reasons to oppose this idea.
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It's very common on the internet for people to misinterpret "Wouldn't it be nice if..." as "I'm offended because they didn't..." I don't think too many people are offended by the way Pokemon operates, but they do see ways it could be improved.
 
Fantastapotamus said:
As somebody who has zero knowledge about Gender identity, is this also a "problem" in games with fixed protagonists like in Witcher 3?
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Pokémon gives you a choice, but a limited one (two options) for you avatar. Your avatar, that basically has no identity in the game besides what you will project in it. It has to be you or the one you'd like him to be.

The Witcher gives you no choice and relies heavily on an established book and game series that built this character (of an heterosexual male).
 
J_Viper said:
Holy fuck LOL

I shouldn't be laughing this much at 8 AM
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It's really not hilarious to caricaturize a complex issue to the point where people en masse misunderstand it.

This thread is pitiful!

Some minor text changes are all that's needed to improve the comfort of a significant group of people at the cost of basically nothing to everyone else.

And yet people come out of the wood works to make a mockery of them.

I don't get it.

73V3N said:
Yeah gaming hasnt gone fully crazy yet
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What's crazy about any of this? Nobody who is saying that this text is "outdated" is saying anything other than that it's a minor thing that could use an improvement.
 
Lord of Ostia said:
Not everyone strictly identifies as male or female. That's why the OP brought it up.
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And yet, that person's body was likely born either male or female. If the game can't keep up with your abstract views, just switch and revert to the more basic and concrete ones.

It's what everyone does.
 
73V3N said:
Yeah gaming hasnt gone fully crazy yet
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Care to elaborate?

Venfayth said:
It's really not hilarious to caricaturize a complex issue to the point where people en masse misunderstand it.

This thread is pitiful!

Some minor text changes are all that's needed to improve the comfort of a significant group of people at the cost of basically nothing to everyone else.

And yet people come out of the wood works to make a mockery of them.

I don't get it.
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Yeah, well said. Jokes are fine, but this is just mocking those with a genuine issue.
 
It is certainly not "outdated" when almost all games with character creation offer two genders.

Can it be changed to be more inclusive? Of course.

Would an elegant solution be easy? Highly debatable.
 
Hjunklay said:
And yet, that person's body was likely born either male or female. If the game can't keep up with your abstract views, just switch and revert to the more basic and concrete ones.

It's what everyone does.
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It's what everyone does is the worst defense - how do you think norms change?
 
Omega Ultimus said:
As someone who has never felt comfortable or safe enough to disclose their inner gender identification outside the confines of a confidential setting, I just want everyone to know that I'm not outraged at Nintendo, Game Freak, or anyone for that matter, for not including a non-binary choice of character identification and representation for players who are aligned in that way. I understand that people see gender defined in terms of male or female - even if you are transgender, you still are either a male or female transgender person, even if tragically, a large majority won't respect that identification. I even understand that the concept of other genders seems alien or fake to most people.

What I'll tell you isn't fake: the disgust, embarrassment, self-loathing, and general dysphoria I feel when I see myself in the mirror. The fear of having my gender identification exposed when I'm forced to participate in gender-typical activities as I struggle to maintain the facade. The utter and crushing loneliness I feel day in and day out because I cannot express my feelings outwardly and identify freely. Why should I fear, why should I feel lonely? Because, just as stated in this thread, I, and others like me, are considered by the general populace to be "attention whores", "crazy", and/or "broken".

I didn't want to ever "come out" publicly, let alone on a game forum, let alone in a Pokemon thread. Yet, I'm done being such a minority that I'm not marginalized, I'm casually dismissed out of hand. I just want to be treated like a person. I just want a little respect, a little empathy. I'm sorry for the rant, but I assure you I'm not outraged - I'm just here.
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I'm really sorry for you to read how hard it is for you to deal with these issues.

Going to say something that may sound a little rough (it was for me personally as well to deal with it) but hopefully it might help you going forward.

When I read the last part of your message I can't help but feel that you are mirroring your internal fears outwards and projecting your own struggles onto others. I won't deny issues of marginalization in cultures we live in but growing and aligning oneself with life is more about accepting yourself than seeking acceptance in others.

Culture and society isn't set out to acknowledge who you are, only you can do that for yourself and that seems to me to be valid for any kind of human being. The question of "Who am I" is a profound question no matter what concepts you are trying to identify and express this in. Reading that you feel disgust and self-loathing I'd recommend you to start looking inwards for love and acceptance so that when you find it it will become easier to express it outwards in your gender identification as well. Both therapy and meditation can help with this. As someone who considers them self to be consciously non-gendered, expressed in both male and female energies (yin and yang) but comfortably residing in a male body I am aware that it has been much easier to participate in gender-typical activities but I also know that the core issues of being human are alike for anyone and the answer is always within and never external. And if your environment isn't accommodating to who you want to be then seek out those people and places where you can be accepted for who you are (isn't always easy to find but always worth the effort).
 
Hjunklay said:
And yet, that person's body was likely born either male or female. If the game can't keep up with your abstract views, just switch and revert to the more basic and concrete ones.

It's what everyone does.
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I've been resisting saying it but: What the fuck is this thread.
 
purseowner said:
To translate:

'I have a narrow-minded understanding of identity. I selfishly don't see this as an issue as it doesn't affect me because I have privilege that I fail to recognise. I'd like other people to remain as narrow-minded as me so I can remain comfortably privileged.'
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This might seem off topic, but do you have a job?
 
Is the issue in this thread not that people are confusing the differences between sex and gender? People saying their are only two genders are fundamentally wrong. That's ignoring even just the mainly recognised ones mentioned in the LGBTQ acronym.

There are fundamentally very few biological sexes however. I believe this is what the question in Pokemon is asking you about. It wants to know, do you want your character to be (or look like if you want to play it like that) a boy or a girl physically. I don't believe it's asking if you want to play as straight, gay, lesbian or bi for example; that is your gender, your sexuality and I don't personally feel that this question is asking you about that in Pokemon.
 
Does pokemon take place in our reality? I thought it was a different dimension one where we have no indication that non binary gender fluidity is a thing.

The game isn't designed to "Create an avatar of yourself" but to play a role in the games universe.
 
73V3N said:
It's as necessary as your overeaction to every post in this thread you don't agree with
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are you proposing that someone pretty much calling people born with both genders or those not identifying with either "sick" or some considering gender identity issues (you know, one of the main reasons for suicide among teens) a joking matter by jokingly calling themselves 'attack helicopter' something that one merely 'disagrees' about?

Are you?

Nipo said:
Does pokemon take place in our reality? I thought it was a different dimension one where we have no indication that non binary gender fluidity is a thing.

The game isn't designed to "Create an avatar of yourself" but to play a role in the games universe.
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debatable, but even if it were - why can't that role be non gender binary?
 
Mihos said:
Everything offends someone, the only way to win is to not play.
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Nobody is saying it's offensive.

Nipo said:
Does pokemon take place in our reality? I thought it was a different dimension one where we have no indication that non binary gender fluidity is a thing.

The game isn't designed to "Create an avatar of yourself" but to play a role in the games universe.
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Even among people who aren't debating about complex issues such as gender identity there are a wide variety of interpretations of what a player avatar is. There is no reason someone who takes their gender identity more seriously should be excluded from consideration when structuring the experience of choosing an avatar.
 
StayDead said:
Is the issue in this thread not that people are confusing the differences between sex and gender? People saying their are only two genders are fundamentally wrong. That's ignoring even just the mainly recognised ones mentioned in the LGBTQ acronym.

There are fundamentally very few biological sexes however. I believe this is what the question in Pokemon is asking you about. It wants to know, do you want your character to be (or look like if you want to play it like that) a boy or a girl physically. I don't believe it's asking if you want to play as straight, gay, lesbian or bi for example; that is your gender, your sexuality and I don't personally feel that this question is asking you about that in Pokemon.
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Nipo said:
Does pokemon take place in our reality? I thought it was a different dimension one where we have no indication that non binary gender fluidity is a thing.

The game isn't designed to "Create an avatar of yourself" but to play a role in the games universe.
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Or when the question that's traditionally asked was first thought up, the devs/other people saw gender and sex as the same thing? Hence the title thread of asking if it's outdated.
 
I feel that this question goes waay beyond the scope of a pokémon game. The main issue being that designers need to find a way to make character customization more flexible without spending a lot more time and money.
And yeah, this thread is why you don't bring politics and ideology (of any kind) in the gaming section.
 
Fliesen said:
debatable, but even if it were - why can't that role be non gender binary?
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Oh it definitely can. I legitimately didn't know if the concept existed in the pokemon universe. Even if it didn't previously the world is made up and they could introduce it if they think it will help them sell more games and/or make more money.


Zolo said:
Or when the question that's traditionally asked was first thought up, the devs/other people saw gender and sex as the same thing? Hence the title thread of asking if it's outdated.
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Yea, i was inarticulately trying to figure out if it was phrased that way because the devs didn't consider it that way or if it was because in the pokemon world no other option exists.
 
PBY said:
What the fuuuuuuuuucck
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Does that response actually surprise you? Plenty of people still see gender as binary. Maybe most people. We can sit here in this little online progressive utopia and pretend it's not modern but what defines that? I honestly don't think most people are onboard with the view that gender isn't binary. Most people really can't wrap their heads around that.
 
OminoMichelin said:
I feel that this question goes waay beyond the scope of a pokémon game. The main issue being that designers need to find a way to make character customization more flexible without spending a lot more time and money.
And yeah, this thread is why you don't bring politics and ideology (of any kind) in the gaming section.
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this thread is exactly why we should do that more often, tbh.
 
Simple solution: Type in all your information rather than select it.

Name: ______
Age: ______
Gender: ______
Favorite X: ______
Hobby: _______
Favorite Y: _______
 
goldenpp72 said:
I find it sad that the idea of a game asking if you're a boy or girl is becoming an offensive concept :/
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this.

not to bully, but pandering to a very explicit minority isn't exactly needed when the vast majority of people in the world identify as male or female.

i don't think having both genders on the same character model is at the top of nintendo/gamefreak's list of things to do to be perfectly frank.
 
OminoMichelin said:
I feel that this question goes waay beyond the scope of a pokémon game. The main issue being that designers need to find a way to make character customization more flexible without spending a lot more time and money.
And yeah, this thread is why you don't bring politics and ideology (of any kind) in the gaming section.
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Plenty of easy, practical solutions have been proposed, actually.

Fliesen said:
this thread is exactly why we should do that more often, tbh.
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Seconded.

The_Endgamer said:
this.

not to bully, but pandering to a very explicit minority isn't exactly needed when the vast majority of people in the world identify as male or female.

i don't think having both genders on the same character model is at the top of nintendo/gamefreak's list of things to do to be perfectly frank.
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Pandering? And it makes you sad that society is starting to accept and embrace the complexities of human nature?
 
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