Clinton aides blame loss on FBI, media, sexism, Bernie, everything but themselves
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SolidSnakex
Member
Yes, that was Bernie's fault. It wasn't Hillary's fault when she stood on stage and told a straight out lie about their candidate
Well, he was right behind you
You even thanked him in a written note
But then Hillary and her supporters wonder why people don't trust her and think she's phony.
It also apparently wasn't Hillary's fault when she stood beside Madeleine Albright as she told young women that "there's a special place in hell for women that don't help each other", because those young women were more supportive of Bernie than Hillary. You remember that right, Hillary? Because you and your supporters thought it was absolutely hilarious to try to shame young women into voting for you
https://youtu.be/QRimyfmz0MA?t=14
You then defended it days afterwards
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...efends-madeleine-albright-women-female-voters
But again, i'm sure that's still somehow Bernie's fault.
She had bad polling. He seemingly had worse to none done internally. So how did that put her at a disadvantage vis a vis him?
BotoxAgent
Member
Hillarys primary lead over Bernie was way bigger than Obama's primary lead over Hillary.
It was an attack by all sides - Media, the internet, the FBI, Russia, Bernie bros. It destroyed her turnout. She ran an amazing campaign but the voters just wanted another Obama and let all the bullshit keep them home. The "she should be in jail" narrative was pushed by fucking everyone. The country is sexist to the core, too. Maybe in a decade the people who stayed home will admit it.
IrishNinja
Member
agreed, but fuck if page 1 doesn't leave me less hopeful about that
damn fine post here
yeah i can't help but wonder how much those silly %'s made special snowflakes feel safe in their protest votes
Yes, that was Bernie's fault. It wasn't Hillary's fault when she stood on stage and told a straight out lie about their candidate
Well, he was right behind you
You even thanked him in a written note
But then Hillary and her supporters wonder why people don't trust her and think she's phony.
It also apparently wasn't Hillary's fault when she stood beside Madeleine Albright as she told young women that "there's a special place in hell for women that don't help each other", because those young women were more supportive of Bernie than Hillary. You remember that right, Hillary? Because you and your supporters thought it was absolutely hilarious to try to shame young women into voting for you
https://youtu.be/QRimyfmz0MA?t=14
You then defended it days afterwards
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...efends-madeleine-albright-women-female-voters
But again, i'm sure that's still somehow Bernie's fault.
She may have lied but so did Bernie. It's the damn primary.
UnemployedVillain
Member
I never said that and you're being intentionally obtuse. They could have abstained or cast symbolic votes for third parties. Keep acting like the DNS should have ignored people overwhelming choosing Hillary during the primaries
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
I can't blame her for saying that because everyone with half a brain knew that. I think she said that because she assumed Trump supporters were a vocal minority and people would agree with her on that. In the end there wasn't one thing that did her in. This is such an anomaly within the political system that nobody will be able to accurately explain it for years to come.
I'm saying the lessons to be learned aren't really about the rust belt. The lesson is that your uncle and dad have FB pages now. It wasn't a strategic victory. They openly just eroded her base with lies, cheap tricks and light treason. Nobody is immune to that. It's a new illness and we should be talking about a vaccine.
Obviously Hillary fucked up. The media fucked up. The pollsters fucked up, but those fuck-ups all stem not just from complacency but from the rules of the game changing and them not noticing.
We keep attacking each-other about Bernie v Hillary this shit in thread after thread, but Trump literally tricked every expert from beginning to end. There is no amount of hindsight that can figure it out using some cold logic about polls and shit.
When those of us on the left who had been shamed and abused by her supporters withdrew again from the shadows. The bullying and intimidation was appalling for months on end.
This is the electoral equivalent of "But my best friend is black."
ryutaro's mama
Member
Hillary should have:
Swallowed her pride and chosen Sanders as her running mate (and actually attempted to unite the party).
Hired David Axelrod (whatever the cost) to run her campaign.
Swallowed her pride and chosen Sanders as her running mate (and actually attempted to unite the party).
Hired David Axelrod (whatever the cost) to run her campaign.
IrishNinja
Member
rabid bernie bros with non-viable platforms and narratives of how hed've somehow survived in the general election took the same fear/disgust we all have now and decided to be empowered by it
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
The people who stood silent about their dislike for Clinton are finally speaking up now that it's obvious how much of an unappealing candidate she truly was.
Also she essentially handed the White House to a megalomaniac tyrant-in-the-making by mishandling her campaign strategy. Surely you can understand the high emotions.
UnemployedVillain
Member
So it's personal and not even about the candidate? How petty
Isn't TYT considered fringe kookery?
Why am I having a hard time..rejecting this video?
It was the truth. No matter what, she will never win with you fucking people. Not a politician in the history of America has ever been so needled - if she lies, she gets shit on. If she tells the truth, she gets shit on.
depths20XX
Member
When she entered a 9-1 matchup and just used crouch roundhouse all day.
I completely forgot about this. Oh man.Yes, that was Bernie's fault. It wasn't Hillary's fault when she stood on stage and told a straight out lie about their candidate
Well, he was right behind you
You even thanked him in a written note
But then Hillary and her supporters wonder why people don't trust her and think she's phony.
It also apparently wasn't Hillary's fault when she stood beside Madeleine Albright as she told young women that "there's a special place in hell for women that don't help each other", because those young women were more supportive of Bernie than Hillary. You remember that right, Hillary? Because you and your supporters thought it was absolutely hilarious to try to shame young women into voting for you
https://youtu.be/QRimyfmz0MA?t=14
You then defended it days afterwards
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...efends-madeleine-albright-women-female-voters
But again, i'm sure that's still somehow Bernie's fault.
Puck Beaverton
Banned
blowback from how gaf acted with hilary
people should vent but hopefully realize that we can't just vent
I have no interest in tarring and feathering Hillary Clinton or the Clinton campaign, but the Bernie Bros stuff from her diehards in the media that went on during the primaries was fucking stupid and we need to be better than that.
IrishNinja
Member
yeah man, that adjective to calmly describe an open appeal to white supremacy - via the alt-right, if not directly - that sure did it, really fired up those non-racists to rush out & prove her wrong by supporting said white supremacy platform
how has this line of logic caught on for some of ya'll? assuming you're progressives/liberals/what have you
UnemployedVillain
Member
We're also not bringing up the impact of having her emails hacked and selectively leaked, and in at least one case, shown to be flat out altered. I mean, what other candidate has had a fucking foreign government take a vested interest in them losing and aided in doing so? It was beyond ridiculous.
At least with Obama's first run, the heat came from people, other politicians, etc. Not foreign governments, the FBI and hackers. Each of those alone would be unprecedented, yet she was hit with all 3
At least with Obama's first run, the heat came from people, other politicians, etc. Not foreign governments, the FBI and hackers. Each of those alone would be unprecedented, yet she was hit with all 3
They'll push Kaine or some other centrist hack. They need to be pushed out of office.
I agree.
If people want to vent their frustrations, fine. But there would be a neccesary time where we'll have to suck it up and discuss what we should do next and with civil cooperation.
It's actually pretty easy. Cenk is the living, breathing definition of an entitled dipshit liberal who doesn't even realize how hypocritical he is. The concept of compromise is foreign to him, he thinks the DNC needs to cater to exactly what he wants or else he'll do nothing but heap scorn. The reason why we lose all the time is because we don't get in line like Republicans do and realize we can't always get what we want. Do you guys have any idea how much the people who voted for Trump hated him? Probably only 40% of his followers loved everything he said, maybe less. Cenk thinks even though Hillary got more primary votes the DNC should have screwed her out of the nomination in exchange for an untested white male just because his people wanted it. It's fucking outrageous.
Puck Beaverton
Banned
telling someone who is voting for trump out of their own ignorance that they are a shitheel will have them tell you to fuck off
people become blinded when you accuse them of something. doesn't even matter if you're right. people will lash out
In some alternate reality, Hillary tries to court the rural white vote, has middling success, gets decried by minorities for prioritizing white issues, and loses both the popular vote and the EC.
Like, 20/20 hindsight, she lost the EC. Of course she should have done things differently.
But it isn't fair to paint her strategy as a disaster or obviously ill-fated. She still won the popular despite a whole lot of shit getting slung at her (notably Comey). The majority of analysts praised her strategy up until the point that it failed.
The game is different this year, and very few people (on both sides of the aisle) recognized that until it was too late.
Like, 20/20 hindsight, she lost the EC. Of course she should have done things differently.
But it isn't fair to paint her strategy as a disaster or obviously ill-fated. She still won the popular despite a whole lot of shit getting slung at her (notably Comey). The majority of analysts praised her strategy up until the point that it failed.
The game is different this year, and very few people (on both sides of the aisle) recognized that until it was too late.
greycolumbus
The success of others absolutely infuriates me.
The sentiment was always there. It was just being suppressed and mocked.
A lot of us toed the line. I can understand the hostility. It's an absolute shame there wasn't more outreach when it mattered the most.
PdotMichael
Banned
It's not a bannable offence anymore. Is something my cynic me wants to say.
But she was always the "logical, realistic, or even entitled" candidate than one people really believed.
A lot of us have always been skeptical of her, but if you said that in any discussion thread you would get mobbed by Hil-Gaf. Hil-Gaf is still around, they just don't post in threads that contain valid criticisms against her.
You point out that the primary was won fairly by her. But then go on to blame Bernie for having the audacity to actually campaign against her because Trump brought it up once in the debate?
So she did the right thing by playing by the rules, but he did the wrong thing for doing the same?
And let's be clear I'm already seeding you a lot of ground by assuming her staff actually did play by the rules. Debatable in an of itself.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
He was saying the whole time that his polls told him he was ahead. Obviously, anything Trump says should be taken with a grain of salt, but to say that he expected to lose seems like a stretch. Do you have anything to back that up?
Clinton's campaign was a bust. Charisma and inspiration are not shallow, anti-intellectual drivel. They are vital attributes to leadership.
If you ask the average person what Clinton's slogan was, they will almost certainly scratch their heads.
We don't need Clinton supporters if they can't look in the mirror because their heads are still up their asses. It's their turn to fall in line until they can come up with new strategies instead of the same old shit that caused their girl to lose an election and a primary to newcomers.
IrishNinja
Member
so they're already supporting said bigoted platform, and you think they'll come over if we coddle them?
those minorities that didn't show up (and of course many put the blame on them first), those special snowflake protest votes, etc - you're really then gonna argue theyd've come out in better numbers if we sang kumbaya & ignored said bigotry?
the mistake wasn't the use of the word "deplorable" (which, yes, much of trump's shitheel base then ran with), it was not attacking that angle further.
People are flawed and everybody knows this. The job of a politician is to convince these flawed and selfish individuals that they're worth the 'inconvenience'. As a career politician, Hillary failed massively at this.
It's not petty when her supporters were treating her win as destiny and thought nothing could get in her way. If you aren't willing to accept criticism to help make you better, you become weaker. That can be applied to anyone or anything.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
No they won't. DNC will look hard at Trump's success and try to replicate that.
EatinOlives
Member
In low-energy political climates, Republicans win by default. Liberals need to be coaxed more into voting, but when more voters show up they tend to lean Democrat.
If you have something like Wisconsin, where Clinton never even set foot in, they'll be gravitating toward Republican if the lead there is not large like they thought it was.
Saying "we don't need X supporters", be it Clinton or Bernie, is about the dumbest thing in the world you could be saying if you're a liberal.
We need everyone. Everyone has to fall in line and wake the fuck up, if we somehow manage to not all die in the next 4 years. What's depressing is it's now clear that the threat of destruction doesn't motivate people, and a woman won't, so we need to somehow find another Barack Obama. Which probably won't happen.
BotoxAgent
Member
Hey dude, chill. I am a Clinton supporter. I gave her my full support. And you are right...she told the truth. Trump supporters are a bunch of racist ass shitheads. But man, that comment made me diablos for that whole month. I think it would have benefitted more if she just held her tongue that night 😪 the double standards do suck though--Trump pretty much got away with anything ugh
The argument about how Hilary was the "sensible and pragmatic" pick was blown out of the water. As the drip drip of information about how Hilary ran her campaign comes to light, and the advantage of hindsight, it becomes clearer and clearer that Hilary wasn't this great "pragmatic" choice her diehard defenders painted her as.
If I heard words like "pragmatic" "sensible" "experienced" again, it'd be too soon.
Also, people venting after months of abuse and mocking from arrogant Hilary supporters on this forum that treated anyone that had even mild questions about Hilary as a leper.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Yes, his campaign was surprised he won, this was said and talked about as it was happening. They figured it was gonna be a rough night.
https://politicalwire.com/2016/11/09/trump-campaign-thought-lose/
I don't think anybody rational would argue that the FBI and the Russia stuff didn't have an impact. But I think focusing on them instead of things we can change is pointless.
Obama had no issue juggling the rust belt and the massive city life that exists across the expanse of the Democratic Party. He made sure to not only visit those regions but he made sure Campaign material was constantly focusing on the fact the region was being brutalized and that he would try to help while also pointing out how the Republicans assisted in the abuse
ryutaro's mama
Member
Shitting on the electorate is NEVER the answer. You can say what you want about their candidate but you STFU about them. All it does is motivate them AGAINST YOU. And she had the nerve to try and co-opt "when they go low, we go high".
SMH.
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