Clinton aides blame loss on FBI, media, sexism, Bernie, everything but themselves

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I have no interest in tarring and feathering Hillary Clinton or the Clinton campaign, but the Bernie Bros stuff from her diehards in the media that went on during the primaries was fucking stupid and we need to be better than that.

She was and is a decent person, good even. But she's flawed as a candidate. I never hated her, or even most of her rabid supporters. But to people outside her influence she was a mistake since 2008.

I think she ran a conventional campaign pigheadedly in an era where such things were so obviously an avenue for despair. Hate the game or the player, but you don't just get to wash your hands and blame the voter to the exclusion of anything else.

He perked up the worst in us. She managed to depress a coalition that had delivered resounding victories to a black man with all the baggage that racist fucks could muster.
 
Would Bernie being her VP change anything? Just the simple image of having both of them together may have been more motivating for some voters rather than have Tim Kaine, who I'm sure is a good man, but he's bland as hell. Plus Bernie debating Pence would have given voters a reason to tune into the VP debate and have more screen time for Bernie.

Also, listen to Bill the man won two elections!!

I'm sure picking Bernie or Warren as VP would have been seen as pandering, but at least Bernie supporters would have seen that Hillary thinks they're worth pandering to.

Instead she went with Tim Kaine, who was literally the choice of wall street.
 
When PoliGAF retreated back into their own cushion zone and stopped suppressing the anti-hillary opinions.

I mad, because I tried for months to get people to understand that we must work together. That you can't just force Hillary by demanding that people vote for her and make every other opinion invalid.

I got this: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=208215234&postcount=38

I really hope those posters have learned their lesson. Some of those posts are painful to read.
 
“They are saying they did nothing wrong, which is ridiculous,” said one Clinton surrogate. “She was the wrong messenger and everyone misjudged how pissed working class people were

This is key. Bernie warned the entire party that the 2016 election was at major risk if you don't address the issues the working class had

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Bill Clinton repeatedly tried to get them to speak to those people and was rejected

And she ceded the white working-class voters who backed Mr. Clinton in 1992. Though she would never have won this demographic, her husband insisted that her campaign aides do more to try to cut into Mr. Trump’s support with these voters. They declined, reasoning that she was better off targeting college-educated suburban voters by hitting Mr. Trump on his temperament.

Early on, Mr. Clinton had pleaded with Robby Mook, Mrs. Clinton’s campaign manager, to do more outreach with working-class white and rural voters. But his advice fell on deaf ears.

Ed Rendell also tried to get them to speak to them and was rejected as well

Former Gov. Edward G. Rendell of Pennsylvania also said he had encouraged campaign aides at Mrs. Clinton’s Brooklyn headquarters to spread their vast resources outside Philadelphia and Pittsburgh and focus on rural white pockets of the state. “We had the resources to do both,” Mr. Rendell said Wednesday. “The campaign — and this was coming from Brooklyn — didn’t want to do it.” (Mr. Trump won Pennsylvania by one percentage point.)

Joe Biden had also spoken out about the fact that the Democratic party wasn't talking to white working class workers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9g3py6RVrXQ

It shows how arrogant her campaign was. Everyone but her and the people that worked on her team knew how important those voters were.
 
And this is problem with modern liberals.

Can't stand to build a coalition for the common good with people who have different worldviews.

Where is the common good in "I don't give a fuck that she was the first woman to be nominated president, she failed and deserves to be shit on for eternity and not remembered for anything else"?

That kind of cynical worldview gets no one anywhere. It's not what Obama or Bernie even believe in.
 
Calling an ally flat out they're sexist, even if it is true, will do nothing but lose them as an ally.

That type of hard knock shit does not work. You will not give them some grand revelation that they're sexist. This is even entertaining the idea that they are sexist, which I'm not capable of saying definitively. That goes into subconscious shit that I know nothing about.
 
It was an attack by all sides - Media, the internet, the FBI, Russia, Bernie bros. It destroyed her turnout. She ran an amazing campaign but the voters just wanted another Obama and let all the bullshit keep them home. The "she should be in jail" narrative was pushed by fucking everyone. The country is sexist to the core, too. Maybe in a decade the people who stayed home will admit it.

Amazing campaign? I'd say it was in many ways competent, but amazing? Not by a light year. Obama 2008 was amazing.

And let's throw this Bernie bros shit in the garbage. It's just silly at this point to blame your ideological allies with a slur.
 
You lost because you picked a much weaker candidate with a lot of baggage to take on Trump, you dolts.

Learn from your mistakes & pick a much stronger candidate with less baggage to take on Trump (or Pence) next time.
Pretty much this. They tried to get past it with the first female president angle, but that can only take you so far. Eventually people realised that she had too many skeletons in the closet.
 
This is key. Bernie warned the entire party that the 2016 election was at major risk if you don't address the issues the working class had

cw8hzpruuaanhooudsvg.jpg

Wow I hadn't seen this before. That's crazy how he called it, not only the President but also the Senate etc.

Man there were a few warnings Democrats really shouldn't have blinded themselves to.

Bernie should have been the candidate in retrospect.
 
see, this feels like a pretty strong rebuttal here. no told-you-so bernie bro revisions, no focus on deplorables, just a narrative that's hard to argue with.

you gotta wonder what these voters will do when trump doesn't return any of those lost jobs?
hahaha no you don't, they'll vote GOP again
Assuming Trump's policies do go as horribly as every economic analyst predicts I really do think we have the chance to bring them back, without changing anything about the democrat's social and civil rights stances.

Once the fascist right wing polices fail they'll be looking for another radical extreme to help them economically. The democrats can be that populist left wing group with stances closer to Bernie on how to deal with it.

Trump took a lot of pent up anger and frustration and turned it against minorities and foreigners when a democratic campaign could have turned it against the rich and wall street where it deserves to go. Instead Hillary's campaign went too soft on capitalist elites and the fascist selling racial and xenophobic hatred has started America down a dark and historically dangerous path.

This is a very heavy blow to our democracy, possibly even irreparable if those voters get results from their hatred. The "put identity politics on the backburner" issues will lose those groups votes because they don't owe any party anything. If no one is out there front and center fighting for their rights they'll fight for them themselves in the ways they see fit whether it's a new party or violence. Both would be justified.

That point of no return may have already been crossed and it's too late anyway. Once a fascist with large swathes of government under their party's control take office history shows you don't get another fair election after that.
 
I couldn't care less. His mind is made up, his worldview isn't compatible with mine.
Then you're just as sexist as the rest of this country.
Calling an ally flat out they're sexist, even if it is true, will do nothing but lose them as an ally.

That type of hard knock shit does not work. You will not give them some grand revelation that they're sexist. This is even entertaining the idea that they are sexist, which I'm not capable of saying definitively. That goes into subconscious shit that I know nothing about.
@_AlexHirsch
The inability of the left to distinguish between an imperfect ally and an enemy is the height of privilege and will be our downfall
7:01 PM - 8 Nov 2016

https://twitter.com/_alexhirsch/status/796185943136813056
 
Calling an ally flat out they're sexist, even if it is true, will do nothing but lose them as an ally.

That type of hard knock shit does not work. You will not give them some grand revelation that they're sexist. This is even entertaining the idea that they are sexist, which I'm not capable of saying definitively. That goes into subconscious shit that I know nothing about.
It won't if they really care about equality, but it will demotivate, and decrease the energy to convince others.
 
Don't extrapolate one silly comment into something more than it is.

It isn't just one silly comment. It's calling voters "deplorables." It's saying "fuck white men" and insinuating that every vote for Trump comes from a racist.

Even if true, these things just embolden those against you and make you appear mean to those you're trying to win over. It isn't a winning strategy.

And dems HAVE TO WIN from here on out. Until the country is majority miniority (oxymoron I know) you can't be like this. You just can't. White fragility is very real and if not addressed, will cause more losses down the road.

You need a positive, exciting candidate willing to bring folks together. Division just begets division.
 
these people will never admit they made a mistake. Too many people believe they are pure and wouldn't make such colossal fucking mistakes. "I am not wrong, it is you who is wrong."

oh yeah, i think pretty much all of us are just waiting to see trump's initiatives fall apart & blame put firmly on obama

Calling people sexist sure does make them want to agree with you

why would that poster's goal be everyone getting along, necessarily? this is exactly the kinda logic we see in other threads where people are telling the marginalized to suck it up & embrace their oppressors "for the good of the country". (note: a comparison of logic, not saying the other poster was in any way comparable to these things)
 
Some people still trying to dress their wounds with the ashes of this election.


There is no reality in which Bernie beats Trump because we didn't vote for Bernie we voted for Hillary. And in humongous numbers. Your what if's (that arent based on any science whatsoever) mean absolutely nothing today. Bernies campaign would have had to been run completely different to even MAKE it to the general. But if we are handing out do-overs, we would be handing one to Hillary right now... not Bernie.

Lick your wounds, and get over it. You are making discussing the election and its results absolutely impossible with your inability to get over it.
 
This is key. Bernie warned the entire party that the 2016 election was at major risk if you don't address the issues the working class had

cw8hzpruuaanhooudsvg.jpg


Bill Clinton repeatedly tried to get them to speak to those people and was rejected





Ed Rendell also tried to get them to speak to them and was rejected as well



Joe Biden had also spoken out about the fact that the Democratic party wasn't talking to white working class workers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9g3py6RVrXQ

It shows how arrogant her campaign was. Everyone but her and the people that worked on her team knew how important those voters were.
The stuff about Ed and Bill begging for a different approach will never not be ridiculous. Unbelievable.
 
Trump took a lot of pent up anger and frustration and turned it against minorities and foreigners when a democratic campaign could have turned it against the rich and wall street where it deserves to go. Instead Hillary's campaign went too soft on capitalist elites and the fascist selling racial and xenophobic hatred has started America down a dark and historically dangerous path.

This. Republicans have a history of doing this and we let them do it all over again. Now we have a whole new generation of Republicans on our hands.
 
It isn't just one silly comment. It's calling voters "deplorables." It's saying "fuck white men" and insinuating that every vote for Trump comes from a racist.

Even if true, these things just embolden those against you and make you appear mean to those you're trying to win over. It isn't a winning strategy.

And dems HAVE TO WIN from here on out. Until the country is majority miniority (oxymoron I know) you can't be like this. You just can't. White fragility is very real and if not addressed, will cause more losses down the road.

You need a positive, exciting candidate willing to bring folks together. Division just begets division.

I'm not trying to divide people, I'm just fucking infuriated by the "Clinton will only be remembered for losing to Trump" posts. It's fucking disgusting and frankly comes off as totally sexist, that her career as a woman means nothing and being the first woman nominee means nothing. If people who say that kind of shit aren't even willing to entertain why someone might consider those statements sexist, there's nothing more I can do.
 
Assuming Trump's policies do go as horribly as every economic analyst predicts I really do think we have the chance to bring them back, without changing anything about the democrat's social and civil rights stances.

Once the fascist right wing polices fail they'll be looking for another radical extreme to help them economically. The democrats can be that populist left wing group with stances closer to Bernie on how to deal with it.

Trump took a lot of pent up anger and frustration and turned it against minorities and foreigners when a democratic campaign could have turned it against the rich and wall street where it deserves to go. Instead Hillary's campaign went too soft on capitalist elites and the fascist selling racial and xenophobic hatred has started America down a dark and historically dangerous path.

This is a very heavy blow to our democracy, possibly even irreparable if those voters get results from their hatred. The "put identity politics on the backburner" issues will lose those groups votes because they don't owe any party anything. If no one is out there front and center fighting for their rights they'll fight for them themselves in the ways they see fit whether it's a new party or violence. Both would be justified.

That point of no return may have already been crossed and it's too late anyway. Once a fascist with large swathes of government under their party's control take office history shows you don't get another fair election after that.

eh, i agree with the history note in that last paragraph but i'm not quite so disillusioned with the system as to think we're that far gone yet, thankfully.

beyond that: yeah, i think this is one of the more agreeable posts in this thread, for me. i get the concern in this thread that the dems will double-down in 2020 with a "safe" centrist (especially if turmp's failed on that level at that point), and while you, i & many in here would be upset at this choice, i don't need the quotes in the OP to make me think it's entirely possible that they take the wrong things away from this experience.
 
Wow I hadn't seen this before. That's crazy how he called it, not only the President but also the Senate etc.

Man there were a few warnings Democrats really shouldn't have blinded themselves to.

Bernie should have been the candidate in retrospect.

Biden himself stated pretty heavily this summer that he felt the working class was being completely ignored and that he would have to spend all his time in the rust belt etc. to show the democrats cared.

It seems like most people had an idea of what was going wrong but even as VP they really have no power to correct flaws
 
America will be remembered as the country that elected him, and she will be remembered as the first woman to get the nomination of a major party. It's not her fault that 50 million people wanted to elect him.

Donald Trump does not exist in a separate parallel universe. 50 million people wanted to elect him instead of her. As a person she was uninspiring to the average voter and her campaign did nothing to mitigate that.
 
I'm sure the fact that they used inadequate polling methods, didn't campaign hard enough in many traditional blue states, were too busy focusing Trump instead of focusing on their own strengths and policies and putting forward the wrong candidate had NOTHING to do with it.

It was sexism. Yep, that's it, Sexism.
 
oh yeah, i think pretty much all of us are just waiting to see trump's initiatives fall apart & blame put firmly on obama



why would that poster's goal be everyone getting along, necessarily? this is exactly the kinda logic we see in other threads where people are telling the marginalized to suck it up & embrace their oppressors "for the good of the country". (note: a comparison of logic, not saying the other poster was in any way comparable to these things)

Because we get so caught up in winning the argument that we lost the election. Yes, America has structural racism. Yes, America has massive issues with patriarchal bullshit. But calling people out as racist and sexist doesn't work. Even people in his own party called Trump racist and it didn't do shit to motivate people to vote against him. He won with white women for crying out loud and the man is a serial sexual assaulter.

Speak to what people need to hear. Be inclusive. Because we need those with white privilege and white fragility to win elections.
 
I couldn't care less. His mind is made up, his worldview isn't compatible with mine.

Which do you care more about: the safety and wellbeing of this country's minorities, LGBT people, and women, or giving the rich, old, white person who lost in one of the easiest and most important elections in recent history a pat on the back?
 
Dude, she lost to fucking Trump.

TRUMP!

Donald Trump is an exponentially better (as in more likely to succeed) candidate for the America of 2016 than virtually any other living American politician save for possibly Barack Obama, Joe Biden, or Bill Clinton (and 2 of those 3 obviously couldn't run). If liberals continue to get ensnared in blaming Hillary for losing rather than understanding why Trump won - and he actually had to go out and win this election, it wasn't her or our birthright - then we ain't coming back in 2020.
 
I'm not trying to divide people, I'm just fucking infuriated by the "Clinton will only be remembered for losing to Trump" posts. It's fucking disgusting and frankly comes off as totally sexist, that her career as a woman means nothing and being the first woman nominee means nothing. If people who say that kind of shit aren't even willing to entertain why someone might consider those statements sexist, there's nothing more I can do.

that will be the main thing though. It means something; she inspired girls and women all over this country, but it will not be what she is remembered for.

I don't mean to be a shit and I do think it is unfair.
 
Which do you care more about: the safety and wellbeing of this country's minorities, LGBT people, and women, or giving the rich, old, white person who lost in one of the easiest and most important elections in recent history a pat on the back?
Pretty much what I'm getting at here plus the protection of the Republic from a petty vindictive man who will think nothing of civil liberties and willingly courted foreign interference with our elections.

This isn't a normal year where her accomplishments in a losing effort can take center stage.
 
Tbh, since the election ended I've sort of swayed a bit on her and her campaign. She's just been doing some bitch moves and it's been crazy. I just don't know.

And as for Trump, I'm a bit different. While I was afraid before, now I'm sure that his tactics were just fear/wild tactics to get the middle of America on his side and now considering he'll be in office, he'll be like "ok, not gonna change" and then run with it. Highly doubt he'll do anything negative to minorities, LBGT and anyone else, he's just smart with it. He doesn't know shit about any position of office. He does however have the brains to get the right people to truly lead and hell Obama's going to be around a bit so, I don't know.

Whatever happens happens at the end of the day though. It is what it is.
 
Which do you care more about: the safety and wellbeing of this country's minorities, LGBT people, and women, or giving the rich, old, white person who lost in one of the easiest and most important elections in recent history a pat on the back?

Is there some rule where I can't appreciate the progress a woman has made in politics while simultaneously being critical on what the DNC needs to do next time?
 
the history books will remember clinton for losing to trump

everything else is irrelevant. You will need the revelation that Putin did some Civ shit to change that. May be not deserved, but deserve means nothing.
EDIT:

This. Kids in 50 years will read about this election in history class, and Hillarly Clinton will lucky to be a a foot note, most notable for losing the election to Donald Trump...who is now immortalized in American history. He's the one who's going to get a whole page dedicated to him, and people will remember Donald, for better or worse (Most likely worse), for centuries.

edit:
I'm not trying to divide people, I'm just fucking infuriated by the "Clinton will only be remembered for losing to Trump" posts. It's fucking disgusting and frankly comes off as totally sexist, that her career as a woman means nothing and being the first woman nominee means nothing. If people who say that kind of shit aren't even willing to entertain why someone might consider those statements sexist, there's nothing more I can do.

It means jack shit when she lost to a joke candidate. Yeah people who want to learn more about her will see that she was the first woman nominee, but this was a monumental loss and will always be at the forefront of people's minds.
 
Because we get so caught up in winning the argument that we lost the election. Yes, America has structural racism. Yes, America has massive issues with patriarchal bullshit. But calling people out as racist and sexist doesn't work. Even people in his own party called Trump racist and it didn't do shit to motivate people to vote against him. He won with white women for crying out loud and the man is a serial sexual assaulter.

Speak to what people need to hear. Be inclusive. Because we need those with white privilege and white fragility to win elections.

i hear the logic here, i just long for the day when this isn't the majority base. it also feels weird given that bernie's rhetoric was of a man unafraid and not willing to kowtow to these groups either, i thought

This is even entertaining the idea that they are sexist, which I'm not capable of saying definitively.

oh, but i am
 
Both sides really learned nothing from this. Nothing was more eye opening then seeing McCain say they were still planning on withholding the supreme courts if Clinton won.
 
I'm not trying to divide people, I'm just fucking infuriated by the "Clinton will only be remembered for losing to Trump" posts. It's fucking disgusting and frankly comes off as totally sexist, that her career as a woman means nothing and being the first woman nominee means nothing. If people who say that kind of shit aren't even willing to entertain why someone might consider those statements sexist, there's nothing more I can do.
If Trump turns out to be the modern day Hitler/Stalin I think he's going to be, voting against someone is going to be more exciting than voting for someone for a generation.
If Trump turns out to be the scourge you claim to expect him to be, then yes, she will literally be a footnote in history as the candidate who ran such a terrible campaign that it allowed for one of the greatest tragedies of the 21st century.

Maybe that's unfair. Maybe that's sexist. But that's reality when you run such a spectacularly bad campaign against one of the worst candidates in history. You risk cratering your legacy into a smoking hole in the ground.
 
History will remember her as the woman who got so far only to lose with a failure of a campaign to a walking, talking Nacho-Cheese Dorito.

Of course she's getting torn down, she and her entire staff deserve it. You don't get to do this:





And then whine because people are ripping you a new one.

You literally just said that you think Trump will be Hitler/Stalin 2.0. If that is true, then her becoming the first woman nominee means literally fuck-all in the face of her campaign throwing the election away and giving us Trump.

Her visit to Seattle was a 200$+ only event for tickets, limited to like 3000 seats or something. I wonder how many of these super exclusive venues she visited in attempts to raise money. Tone deaf.
 
@_AlexHirsch
The inability of the left to distinguish between an imperfect ally and an enemy is the height of privilege and will be our downfall
7:01 PM - 8 Nov 2016

https://twitter.com/_alexhirsch/status/796185943136813056

And yet many of her diehards have the nerve to call us the purity police.

I think anybody who voted for Sanders but didn't come out for her made a big mistake. I don't align myself with them. But I think the blame ultimately lies on the candidate and her campaign to bring in friendly voices.

I have no responsibility beyond my own vote and activism to ensure a victory for her or anyone else.

I did my part.
 
And as for Trump, I'm a bit different. While I was afraid before, now I'm sure that his tactics were just fear/wild tactics to get the middle of America on his side and now considering he'll be in office, he'll be like "ok, not gonna change" and then run with it. Highly doubt he'll do anything negative to minorities, LBGT and anyone else, he's just smart with it. He doesn't know shit about any position of office. He does however have the brains to get the right people to truly lead and hell Obama's going to be around a bit so, I don't know.

Whatever happens happens at the end of the day though. It is what it is.

bruh
his 100 day plan or whatever was attrocious on numerous fronts, and he's out here on twitter crying about protests but silent on hate crimes in his name

go ahead. anything I say will be based on the gut feeling of a 22 year old

for posterity: i really didn't mean to bust your balls any here man, just still think the literally one time use of "deplorable" is being overblown, is all
 
Donald Trump is an exponentially better (as in more likely to succeed) candidate for the America of 2016 than virtually any other living American politician save for possibly Barack Obama, Joe Biden, or Bill Clinton (and 2 of those 3 obviously couldn't run). If liberals continue to get ensnared in blaming Hillary for losing rather than understanding why Trump won - and he actually had to go out and win this election, it wasn't her or our birthright - then we ain't coming back in 2020.



Goddamn this is 100% spot on. It hurts to admit, but Trumps lunacy, charisma (yeah... it counts) and the way he carried himself this election makes him a damn fine candidate for the america of 2016.

Might make you feel sick to your stomach, and embarrassed... but its still true. Once upon a time this dude would be laughed at for any serious office, but that time is long gone. People are more than okay supporting a loud mouthed, know nothing, unqualified, Twitter obsessed, buffoon of a reality TV star as leader of the free world these days. The dude is perfect for this climate, and intersects with the slow growing alt right to a fucking Tee.

Keep on thinking that he was an easy lick that anyone could beat and he will curb stomp in 2020 also.

He didn't crush the Republican opposition and the General by accident. He was right on time...
 
History will remember her as the woman who got so far only to lose with a failure of a campaign to a walking, talking Nacho-Cheese Dorito.

Of course she's getting torn down, she and her entire staff deserve it. You don't get to do this:





And then whine because people are ripping you a new one.

You literally just said that you think Trump will be Hitler/Stalin 2.0. If that is true, then her becoming the first woman nominee means literally fuck-all in the face of her campaign throwing the election away and giving us Trump.

She spent 15 days in New York in September? What the fuck? Seriously? No wonder she lost.
 
I'm sure picking Bernie or Warren as VP would have been seen as pandering, but at least Bernie supporters would have seen that Hillary thinks they're worth pandering to.

Instead she went with Tim Kaine, who was literally the choice of wall street.

Picking anybody on the left of her would have changed the dynamic. She felt she didn't need to do that. She was wrong.

And yeah, Tim Kaine was a laughably out of touch choice. Perhaps the most damning point to highlight what was in the kool aid over there.
 
The fact that you think her losing to Trump is more important than becoming the first woman to ever be nominated reflects on yours too.
She let a wannabe-authoritarian take the most powerful position on Earth. The most disliked candidate in the history of presidential elections. A bigot who has promised to make life hell for people of colour. A businessman who believes a trade war with China is a sound macro-economic policy. A vain megalomaniac who admires dictators. A conspiracy-nut who believes climate change is a hoax.

But hey she was the first woman to be nominated. Brownie points count for something, right?
 
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