Clinton aides blame loss on FBI, media, sexism, Bernie, everything but themselves

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lastflowers said:
Her visit to Seattle was a 200$+ only event for tickets, limited to like 3000 seats or something. I wonder how many of these super exclusive venues she visited in attempts to raise money. Tone deaf.
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It'd be great to get a comparison someday down the line between her campaign events, their number, location and openness and then compare it to Trump, Obama, even Romney, Gore or Bush. A cursory look does make it all seem terrible and tone deaf.
 
mjp2417 said:
Donald Trump is an exponentially better (as in more likely to succeed) candidate for the America of 2016 than virtually any other living American politician save for possibly Barack Obama, Joe Biden, or Bill Clinton (and 2 of those 3 obviously couldn't run). If liberals continue to get ensnared in blaming Hillary for losing rather than understanding why Trump won - and he actually had to go out and win this election, it wasn't her or our birthright - then we ain't coming back in 2020.
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Trump was a bad candidate and lost votes compared to previous candidates of the own party.

Don't try to push the narrative that he was some unstoppable political power. It was Clinton who lost millions of voters to no one.
 
That's OK, after this loss the decision makers in that campaign won't be having prominent positions in another Democrat Presidential campaign, so they can stay in denial
 
IrishNinja said:
for posterity: i really didn't mean to bust your balls any here man, just still think the literally one time use of "deplorable" is being overblown, is all
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nah it's cool. Learning and challenging oneself is how improvement is made.

Also I meant the poster here on GAF. I know many Trump supporters are sexist.
 
IrishNinja said:
bruh
his 100 day plan or whatever was attrocious on numerous fronts, and he's out here on twitter crying about protests but silent on hate crimes in his name
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Definitely agree with you on that.

Going to take a bit for him to get adjusted, he's gotta realize what he's doing but yeah I just think that stuff was a tactic he used. Forgot where I read it but someone said that he used a tactic he mentioned in his book down to a science, how to make a deal. He just used it on America. He's gotta get smarter people on his side though and that includes a social media team (to take away his twitter like they did Meek) and others to help. That plan he had isn't going to happen. They gotta go back to the drawing board.
 
SURGEdude said:
And yet many of her diehards have the nerve to call us the purity police.

I think anybody who voted for Sanders but didn't come out for her made a big mistake. I don't align myself with them. But I think the blame ultimately lies on the candidate and her campaign to bring in friendly voices.

I have no responsibility beyond my own vote and activism to ensure a victory for her or anyone else.

I did my part.
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Many? It's bullshit to pretend the Bernie or Bust folk were simply an angry niche group, yet try and portray the purity police as a much larger group within the Hillary camp. Both groups were vocal minorities. Plus at large anyone who cared about the issues would want as large a supporting group as possible. I like to think the vast majority of both camps would support either, if they had gotten the nomination. If that was true...who can say

Baron Doggystyle von Woof said:
Totally out of touch. She couldn't even come close to Obama let alone winning from Trump. This is all on you Mrs Clinton and the democratic party. Get rid of the old garde.
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Why do people say this like there was any chance of any candidate doing so?
 
PdotMichael said:
Trump was a bad candidate and lost votes compared to previous candidates of the own party.

Don't try to push the narrative that he was some unstoppable political power. It was Clinton who lost millions of voters to no one.
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Exactly, the clown got less votes than Romney, the human robot. It just so happen that Clinton was a shit tier candidate, and the DNC screw up by backing her. If you want to talk about amazing presidential candidate, that would be Obama.
 
mjp2417 said:
Donald Trump is an exponentially better (as in more likely to succeed) candidate for the America of 2016 than virtually any other living American politician save for possibly Barack Obama, Joe Biden, or Bill Clinton (and 2 of those 3 obviously couldn't run). If liberals continue to get ensnared in blaming Hillary for losing rather than understanding why Trump won - and he actually had to go out and win this election, it wasn't her or our birthright - then we ain't coming back in 2020.
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A reasonable response is to look at both how he won, and how she lost. But the specific topic of this thread explains why one is being more considered than the other on these pages.

I'm happy to engage in relevant conversation as to how he won in more appropriate threads.
 
I think it's kind of interesting to think about how future history books will look at this election. Personally, I think she'll primarily be remembered as the very first female presidential nominee from a major political party. Following that would be her loss to Donald Trump, which would lead to a chapter or two telling of his rise to power and eventual presidency. If it was a college textbook, there will probably be discussion questions pertaining to the reason why Hillary could have lost, how Trump may have appealed to voters, and whether or not the electoral college should be abolished seeing as the system was initially put in place to prevent someone like Trump from gaining power lol.

Honestly, I think Hillary's loss is a combination of a lot of things - including the people/establishment/things her aides are throwing the blame at, as well as the handling of the campaign it's starting to seem like. It's just incredibly unfortunate. As someone who supported Hillary since she got the nomination, it is saddening to see this all unfold (though not unsurprising). I bet Hillary is devastated as fuck, and probably even embarrassed, having lost to Trump. I know I would be. I'm devastated for her.

I remember watching the video of the story of her campaign on Facebook right before the election. Made me emotional then, and it makes me emotional now for different reasons. It's just been a sad, frustrating, and surreal week for me lol. :(
 
Cipherr said:
Goddamn this is 100% spot on. It hurts to admit, but Trumps lunacy, charisma (yeah... it counts) and the way he carried himself this election makes him a damn fine candidate for the america of 2016.

Might make you feel sick to your stomach, and embarrassed... but its still true. Once upon a time this dude would be laughed at for any serious office, but that time is long gone. People are more than okay supporting a loud mouthed, know nothing, unqualified, Twitter obsessed, buffoon of a reality TV star as leader of the free world these days. The dude is perfect for this climate, and intersects with the slow growing alt right to a fucking Tee.

Keep on thinking that he was an easy lick that anyone could beat and he will curb stomp in 2020 also.

He didn't crush the Republican opposition and the General by accident. He was right on time...
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He had less votes than Romney. He can and should be easily beaten. Hillary was obviously not the one to do it.
 
Chumley said:
Is there some rule where I can't appreciate the progress a woman has made in politics while simultaneously being critical on what the DNC needs to do next time?
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There isn't. That's why I also recognize how great it is that a woman made it to the presidential election. I mean it. I was super psyched to have our first female president, especially after our first black president.

But both of these things have values, and I don't see how someone can attach more weight to an ideological victory than to allowing the ascension of "Hitler/Stalin 2.0".
 
PdotMichael said:
Trump was a bad candidate and lost votes compared to previous candidates of the own party.

Don't try to push the narrative that he was some unstoppable political power. It was Clinton who lost millions of voters to no one.
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Name one living American politician in either party that is (a) eligible to run and (b) not named Joe Biden that would have defeated Trump in 2016 America.
 
Officerrob said:
That's OK, after this loss the decision makers in that campaign won't be having prominent positions in another Democrat Presidential campaign, so they can stay in denial
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Party elites are saying they want Kaine for 2020.

They're fucking delusional and they're gonna fuck us all if we don't stop them.
 
UnemployedVillain said:
Many? It's bullshit to pretend the Bernie or Bust folk were simply an angry niche group, yet try and portray the purity police as a much larger group within the Hillary camp. Both groups were vocal minorities. Plus at large anyone who cared about the issues would want as large a supporting group as possible. I like to think the vast majority of both camps would support either, if they had gotten the nomination. If that was true...who can say



Why do people say this like there was any chance of any candidate doing so?
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I'm not suggesting the majority of her supporters were bullies. I have a family and state full of them. I'm was one of them in the general. I'm simply again pointing out that bullying in this forum was entirely one sided. That argument doesn't, and isn't meant to extrapolate to the world in general.

We've gone far down the rabbit hole, but the reason I was addressing that had to do with the effort to blame Bernie people for a mismanaged campaign.
 
Cipherr said:
Goddamn this is 100% spot on. It hurts to admit, but Trumps lunacy, charisma (yeah... it counts) and the way he carried himself this election makes him a damn fine candidate for the america of 2016.

Might make you feel sick to your stomach, and embarrassed... but its still true. Once upon a time this dude would be laughed at for any serious office, but that time is long gone. People are more than okay supporting a loud mouthed, know nothing, unqualified, Twitter obsessed, buffoon of a reality TV star as leader of the free world these days. The dude is perfect for this climate, and intersects with the slow growing alt right to a fucking Tee.

Keep on thinking that he was an easy lick that anyone could beat and he will curb stomp in 2020 also.

He didn't crush the Republican opposition and the General by accident. He was right on time...
Click to expand...
He got fewer votes than McCain and Romney. He did not get a majority of the primary vote, he benefitted from 17 candidates splitting the primary votes at first, and then splitting with 3-4 others. Nothing indicates he is this white knight. He is beatable.
 
Cipherr said:
Goddamn this is 100% spot on. It hurts to admit, but Trumps lunacy, charisma (yeah... it counts) and the way he carried himself this election makes him a damn fine candidate for the america of 2016.

Might make you feel sick to your stomach, and embarrassed... but its still true. Once upon a time this dude would be laughed at for any serious office, but that time is long gone. People are more than okay supporting a loud mouthed, know nothing, unqualified, Twitter obsessed, buffoon of a reality TV star as leader of the free world these days. The dude is perfect for this climate, and intersects with the slow growing alt right to a fucking Tee.

Keep on thinking that he was an easy lick that anyone could beat and he will curb stomp in 2020 also.

He didn't crush the Republican opposition and the General by accident. He was right on time...
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, I'm not buying this. Not only do the numbers argue against this, a Trump aide revealed there were voter suppression operations.
 
Chumley said:
I'm not trying to divide people, I'm just fucking infuriated by the "Clinton will only be remembered for losing to Trump" posts. It's fucking disgusting and frankly comes off as totally sexist, that her career as a woman means nothing and being the first woman nominee means nothing. If people who say that kind of shit aren't even willing to entertain why someone might consider those statements sexist, there's nothing more I can do.
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It means nothing cause she went and sabotaged herself so hard. Being the first woman means zip when you lose the way she did and to who she did. Her career means jack when her arrogance was her downfall. Maybe she inspired ed some young girls in politics, but there are plenty of other women in the arena that they can also look up too.
 
mjp2417 said:
Name one living American politician in either party that is (a) eligible to run and (b) not named Joe Biden that would have defeated Trump in 2016 America.
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I think Warren could have done it. Perhaps Russ Feingold. Tulsi Gabbard would have been a great choice as well.
 
I really hope the DNC comes out of this stronger.


Clearly the old ways where doomed. Hillary at best could have only ever won under special circumstances like what they predicted Trump to be. In the end her image only got worse to the point where even that was not doable. She would have lost to ANY half way respectable Republican candidate and as such would have only ever been a 1 term president.



I hope the DNC learns the right things here. I hope during the rebuild they dont go too far left and risk basically becoming the USA version of the current UK labour party and put their own interests ahead of being a viable opposition and electable government. This is not the time for that.
 
Makonero said:
Party elites are saying they want Kaine for 2020.

They're fucking delusional and they're gonna fuck us all if we don't stop them.
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This is the time to look at Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren. Not necessarily for them to be runner, but for them to raise the right people. Even if the establishment puts up Tim Kaine or anyone like him, I think this time a Bernie backed runner will steamroll right through this bad idea.
 
hairygreenpeas said:
I think it's kind of interesting to think about how future history books will look at this election. Personally, I think she'll primarily be remembered as the very first female presidential nominee from a major political party. Following that would be her loss to Donald Trump, which would lead to a chapter or two telling of his rise to power and eventual presidency. If it was a college textbook, there will probably be discussion questions pertaining to the reason why Hillary could have lost, how Trump may have appealed to voters, and whether or not the electoral college should be abolished seeing as the system was initially put in place to prevent someone like Trump from gaining power lol.

Honestly, I think Hillary's loss is a combination of a lot of things - including the people/establishment/things her aides are throwing the blame at, as well as the handling of the campaign it's starting to seem like. It's just incredibly unfortunate. As someone who supported Hillary since she got the nomination, it is saddening to see this all unfold (though not unsurprising). I bet Hillary is devastated as fuck, and probably even embarrassed, having lost to Trump. I know I would be. I'm devastated for her.

I remember watching the video of the story of her campaign on Facebook right before the election. Made me emotional then, and it makes me emotional now for different reasons. It's just been a sad, frustrating, and surreal week for me lol. :(
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She'll be a footnote, at best.

Like who remembers Geraldine Ferraro? I legit had to look up her name just to remember what it even was.
 
SURGEdude said:
I think Warren could have done it. Perhaps Russ Feingold. Tulsi Gabbard would have been a great choice as well.
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I disagree. I don't think Bernie could have done it either. Biden would killed him, though. The Democratic party needs to find some new blood and fucking quickly if Biden is the best we have, since Michelle Obama will never run.
 
Amazing that they learned nothing from this. The DNC and Washington in particular are so insular and myopic that they just thought they had it in the bag. I said this in the Michigan thread, how you spend more time in Michigan and Wisconsin after what happened in the primaries is beyond me.
 
Makonero said:
He had less votes than Romney. He can and should be easily beaten. Hillary was obviously not the one to do it.
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Honestly, I dont care if you believe the bolded; you are one person. But the DNC cant afford to be so blind that they watch a guy that several republican candidates tried to beat, but got WASHED, several people in the entire RNC tried to stop, and got WASHED, Hillary Clinton with Obama/Michelle/Biden/Warren ALL out on the freaking campaign trail for her and still got fucking WASHED as someone who is "Easily beaten".

I will lose my fucking mind if they come to that conclusion in the face of nothing but conflicting evidence, and in the wake of the man taking the fucking Presidency.

He was NOT an easy mark. This much was proven over and goddamn over again.
 
Chumley said:
I disagree. I don't think Bernie could have done it either. Biden would killed him, though. The Democratic party needs to find some new blood and fucking quickly if Biden is the best we have, since Michelle Obama will never run.
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I agree Biden could have done it. But all of the people I pulled off the top of my head would have fared better than her. They are all far more like Obama whereas she was John Kerry with a different gender.
 
hairygreenpeas said:
I think it's kind of interesting to think about how future history books will look at this election. Personally, I think she'll primarily be remembered as the very first female presidential nominee from a major political party. Following that would be her loss to Donald Trump, which would lead to a chapter or two telling of his rise to power and eventual presidency. If it was a college textbook, there will probably be discussion questions pertaining to the reason why Hillary could have lost, how Trump may have appealed to voters, and whether or not the electoral college should be abolished seeing as the system was initially put in place to prevent someone like Trump from gaining power lol.

Honestly, I think Hillary's loss is a combination of a lot of things - including the people/establishment/things her aides are throwing the blame at, as well as the handling of the campaign it's starting to seem like. It's just incredibly unfortunate. As someone who supported Hillary since she got the nomination, it is saddening to see this all unfold (though not unsurprising). I bet Hillary is devastated as fuck, and probably even embarrassed, having lost to Trump. I know I would be. I'm devastated for her.

I remember watching the video of the story of her campaign on Facebook right before the election. Made me emotional then, and it makes me emotional now for different reasons. It's just been a sad, frustrating, and surreal week for me lol. :(
Click to expand...
Hillary will be remembered as the Stannis of the US of A.
 
gogosox82 said:
Amazing that they learned nothing from this. The DNC and Washington in particular are so insular and myopic that they just thought they had it in the bag. I said this in the Michigan thread, how you spend more time in Michigan and Wisconsin after what happened in the primaries is beyond me.
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Hell even Minnesota was close and that's the state with the longest streak of supporting democrats in the country. Last time the repubs won was 1972, and before that 1956. Anything prior is muddled by party realignments.
 
numble said:
He got fewer votes than McCain and Romney. He did not get a majority of the primary vote, he benefitted from 17 candidates splitting the primary votes at first, and then splitting with 3-4 others. Nothing indicates he is this white knight. He is beatable.
Click to expand...

Not many establishment Republicans voted for him, and less supported him. They wanted him to lose. Those people are now stuck, because they've been proven wrong time and again about him. So their choices are stay or jump ship to a place where people clearly don't want them.

If you wanted to beat Trump, now was the time. Because in 4 years it's going to be impossible if he does well (Which, given how many people have been wrong about him so far, makes me think he will). Now the Democrats are in the unfamiliar defensive position without a figurehead to fight back with.
 
mjp2417 said:
Name one living American politician in either party that is (a) eligible to run and (b) not named Joe Biden that would have defeated Trump in 2016 America.
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What kind of silly question is that? The Democrats were in an excellent position after 8 years of Obama who will leave with good approval ratings, a Republican candidate who got one the worst results in the modern history for the Republican party.

It was Clinton who ignored the important swing states and also already lost to Sanders in many of them although everything was already screwed in her favour.
 
Donthizz# said:
She owes Obama an apology. Everything he worked hard for is going to be undone.
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I wonder how he feels right now. He pulled of an unlikely win and then worked to create a base for the next president to build upon. And Hillary Clinton just jeopardized everything with her darn ego. Literally everything Obama pushed through, 8 years of work against a system put up against him will be lost.
 
Cipherr said:
Honestly, I dont care if you believe the bolded; you are one person. But the DNC cant afford to be so blind that they watch a guy that several republican candidates tried to beat, but got WASHED, several people in the entire RNC tried to stop, and got WASHED, Hillary Clinton with Obama/Michelle/Biden/Warren ALL out on the freaking campaign trail for her and still got fucking WASHED as someone who is "Easily beaten".

I will lose my fucking mind if they come to that conclusion in the face of nothing but conflicting evidence, and in the wake of the man taking the fucking Presidency.

He was NOT an easy mark. This much was proven over and goddamn over again.
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Several candidates can't beat him when the votes are split and there are winner take all states. Hillary Clinton had 0 events in Wisconsin and very few events in Michigan, while Obama visited both many times in 2008. She spent 15 days of September in New York. She only had 2 battleground state events in Nevada and Ohio in the last half of August.

This was Clinton's schedule in late August:
http://www.p2016.org/clinton/clintoncal0816.html
August 18 - New York, NY
August 19 - Martha's Vineyard, MA
August 20 - Nantucket, MA, Martha's Vineyard, MA
August 21 - Provincetown, MA, Osterville, MA
August 22 - Beverly Hills, CA
August 23 - Los Angeles, CA, Laguna Beach, CA, Piedmont, CA
August 24 - Redwood City, CA, Los Altos, CA, Woodside, CA
August 25 - Reno, NV
August 26 - None
August 27 - White Plains, NY
August 28 - Sag Harbor, NY, Southampton, NY, Bridgehampton, NY
August 29 - East Hampton, NY, Quogue, NY
August 30 - Sagaponack, NY, North Haven, NY
August 31 - Cincinnati, OH

This was Obama's schedule in the same period in 2008:
https://www2.gwu.edu/~action/2008/obama/obamacal0808.html
August 18 - Albuquerque, NM
August 19 - Orlando, FL, Raleigh, NC
August 20 - Greensboro, NC, Martinsville, VA, Danville, VA, Lynchburg, VA
August 21 - Richmond, VA, Chester, VA, Petersburg, VA, Emporia, VA, Chesapeake, VA
August 22 - Chicago, IL
August 23 - Springfield, IL
August 24 - Eau Claire, WI
August 25 - Davenport, IA, Kansas City, MO
August 26 - Kansas City, MO
August 27 - Billings, MT, Denver, CO
August 28 - Denver, CO
August 29 - Monaca, PA, Aliquippa, PA, Beaver, PA
August 30 - Boardman, OH, Cleveland, OH, Marengo, OH, Dublin, OH
August 31 - Lima, OH, Toledo, OH, Hamilton, IN, Battle Creek, MI

We can compare her September schedule to Obama's as well:

http://www.p2016.org/clinton/clintoncal0916.html
1 Ohio event, 0 Michigan events, 1 Pennsylvania event, 0 Wisconsin events, 15-16 days in New York
September 1 - None
September 2 - None
September 3 - None
September 4 - None
September 5 - Cleveland, OH, Hampton, IL
September 6 - Tampa, FL
September 7 - New York, NY
September 8 - Charlotte, NC, Kansas City, MO
September 9 - New York, NY
September 10 - None
September 11 - New York, NY, Chappaqua, NY
September 12 - Chappaqua, NY
September 13 - Chappaqua, NY
September 14 - Chappaqua, NY
September 15 - Greensboro, NC, Washington, DC
September 16 - Washington, DC, New York, NY
September 17 - Washington, DC
September 18 - None
September 19 - Philadelphia, PA, New York, NY
September 20 - None
September 21 - Orlando, FL
September 22 - Chappaqua, NY
September 23 - Rye Brook, NY
September 24 - Rye Brook, NY
September 25 - New York, NY, Rye Brook, NY
September 26 - Hempstead, NY
September 27 - Raleigh, NC
September 28 - Durham, NH, Boston, MA
September 29 - Des Moines, IA, Chicago, IL
September 30 - Fort Pierce, FL, Coral Springs, FL, Miami Beach, FL

Obama:
https://www2.gwu.edu/~action/2008/obama/obamacal0908.html
3 Ohio events, 5 Michigan events, 5 Pennsylvania events, 2 Wisconsin events, 4 days in Illinois
September 1 - Detroit, MI, Monroe, MI, Milwaukee, WI
September 2 - Chicago, IL
September 3 - New Philadelphia, OH, Dillonvale, OH
September 4 - York, PA, Columbia, PA, Lancaster, PA
September 5 - Duryea, PA, Wyoming, PA, Middletown, NJ
September 6 - Terre Haute, IN
September 7 - Chicago, IL
September 8 - Flint, MI, Farmington Hills, MI
September 9 - Riverside, OH, Abingdon, VA Lebanon, VA
September 10 - Norfolk, VA, New York, NY, Washington, DC
September 11 - Harlem, NY, New York, NY
September 12 - Dover, NH, Hopkinton, NH, Concord, NH
September 13 - Manchester, NH
September 14 - Chicago, IL
September 15 - Grand Junction, CO, Pueblo, CO
September 16 - Golden, CO, Beverly Hills, CA
September 17 - Elko, NV, Las Vegas, NV
September 18 - Albuquerque, NM, Bernalillo, NM, Española, NM, Albuquerque, NM
September 19 - Coral Gables, FL
September 20 - Daytona Beach, FL, Jacksonville, FL
September 21 - Charlotte, NC
September 22 - Green Bay, WI, Chicago, IL
September 23 - Clearwater, FL
September 24 - Clearwater, FL, Dunedin, FL
September 25 - Clearwater, FL, Washington, DC
September 26 - Oxford, MS
September 27 - Greensboro, NC, Fredericksburg, VA, Washington, DC
September 28 - Detroit, MI
September 29 - Westminster, CO
September 30 - Reno, NV
 
KingBroly said:
Not many establishment Republicans voted for him, and less supported him. They wanted him to lose. Those people are now stuck, because they've been proven wrong time and again about him. So their choices are stay or jump ship to a place where people clearly don't want them.

If you wanted to beat Trump, now was the time. Because in 4 years it's going to be impossible if he does well (Which, given how many people have been wrong about him so far, makes me think he will). Now the Democrats are in the unfamiliar defensive position without a figurehead to fight back with.
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I don't think him being a shitty president is arguable. But whether he manages to fuck up enough like Bush did to scare people into going steady for a 2nd term is certainly possible.
 
SURGEdude said:
I think Warren could have done it. Perhaps Russ Feingold. Tulsi Gabbard would have been a great choice as well.
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I am a current Mass liberal who grew up in Trump country. Liz Warren is my spirit animal. But she isn't taking those rust belt votes from Trump, at least until he completely fucks them over during his first term. Performative white identity matters to them more than policy and she simply can't compete there. Feingold got demolished in his home state and Tulsi Gabbard (I like her too) is still a non-starter. We need to realize that neither party is really about economic progressivism at this point. That wasn't ultimately what this election was about.
 
PdotMichael said:
What kind of silly question is that? The Democrats were in an excellent position after 8 years of Obama who will leave with good approval ratings, a Republican candidate who got one the worst results in the modern history for the Republican party.

It was Clinton who ignored the important swing states and also already lost to Sanders in many of them although everything was already screwed in her favour.
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So there are obviously a ton of them then. Name some. I'll be here.
 
Dishwalla said:
Some of those like the FBI/the media/sexism were indeed factors but yeah a little self reflection is in order for the Clinton campaign(or whatever remains of it).
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metalslimer said:
They need to take some blame but the media literally devoted more time to her emails than every other issue combined. There was literally a Russian intelligence operation designed to take her down.
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Yup. The way emails were beaten to death over and over and over was ridiculous. The Russia thing was also barely talked about.

With that said, her team also had its own fuck ups.
 
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