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[Rentahamster]

I think you're overestimating the long term divide. Trump's first act of evil in the Oval will bring us back together. The concern isn't if we coalesce, it's where the energy and focus is put after that happens. If it slides back to the people running this recent shitshow then there's reason for alarm.

Maybe, but in the long run, what I feel is the biggest thing to worry about is if Trump improves the economy in the Rust Belt states, even if he has nothing to do with it. If that happens, you can kiss that shit goodbye for 2020.

A note: I am not wishing for their economy to be shit. I want everyone to have success. What I am saying is that Trump pierced the blue wall. The door is open now. Clinton fumbled, Trump recovered. It's his to lose.

Or win.

...Bigly.

 

[IrishNinja]

Poligaf needs to be nuked from the forums. I mean Gaf took a hardline stance on the Video Game side of things about how threads would be echo chambers and create negative community response when its just an echo chamber of like minded gamers.

Poligaf has evolved into nothing more than a Negative community of likeminded supposed political experts keen on destroying dissenting voices.

Man if you all don't get grip and stop acting like PoliGAF is some humongous country wide organization that wields the power to swing entire elections, Im gonna lose my mind

. Jesus Christ, never has a community thread been so overhyped.

seriously, this - y'all (that first post in particular) are being ridiculous about this, we're nearing the hyperbole about popgaf at this point

 

[StormKing]

The American left now has a racist crypto-fascist in the White House who will almost certainly roll back eight years of legislation and might pose an existential threat to American democracy. But if cooler heads don't prevail we might spend the next few years re-litigating the 2016 Democratic primary which wasn't even particularly close. Hillary supporters need to take the L and learn from it, but so do Bernie supporters. There are bigger things at stake and the most vulnerable among us aren't going to benefit from intramural dick-waving contests. We need to (a) not compromise on bedrock principles but (b) figure out why we lost despite a seemingly favorable national electorate and strategize from there.

It's hard for Bernie supporters to accept the result of the primary because of the leaked emails showing that the DNC actively colluded and cheated to ensure that Clinton won.

Those emails were disheartening not just for Bernie supporters but also for all Democratic voters.

 

[Averon]

I don't think PoliGAF is as bad as some are saying, but the shit they pulled over the past year left hard feelings. It is made worse when the candidate they were so smugly advocating ended up losing to a modern day fascist, making all that shit they pulled over the past year meaningless.

So, yeah. PoliGAF should not be "nuked", but it does deserve harsh criticism for its behavior.

 

[SURGEdude]

Maybe, but in the long run, what I feel is the biggest thing to worry about is if Trump improves the economy in the Rust Belt states, even if he has nothing to do with it. If that happens, you can kiss that shit goodbye for 2020.

A note: I am not wishing for their economy to be shit. I want everyone to have success. What I am saying is that Trump pierced the blue wall. The door is open now. Clinton fumbled, Trump recovered. It's his to lose.

Or win.

...Bigly.

Obviously there's a chance he will benefit from the natural swing in economic fortune, but think it's likely he will quickly be shown to be a false prophet.

 

[Chariot]

Man if you all don't get grip and stop acting like PoliGAF is some humongous country wide organization that wields the power to swing entire elections, Im gonna lose my mind

. Jesus Christ, never has a community thread been so overhyped.

PoliGAF had a group dynamic that made them punch down on dissenting opinions in OT to force unity instead of acquiring it. PoliGAF didn't swing the election by itself, though it did erode support and curbed enthusiasm on NeoGAF. On a bigger level, they are an example of an attitude of Clinton supporters in other places and a systematic problem in that movement that might have contributed to her loss as they tossed aside potential allies.

 

[antonz]

I think there is absolutely an argument for having the election taken from her by outside factors. She was attacked by both the FBI as well as the Russians / Wikileaks. Having said that it is also her fault. The minute her deplorables speech was released I knew she irrevocably fucked up. The message was not about unity but us v them.

Outside forces played a role and as you said her comment was stupid but so was her basic campaign. Almost 33% of her campaign stops were basically high class dinners for the rich and famous. Meanwhile she almost completely avoided going to the Firewall states. There was no attempt to actually reach out to traditional voters. Arizona got more visits then Wisconsin

 

[Seventy70]

I hope people realize that there was more to her being unlikable than people just being misogynists. She speaks in such a monotone voice that comes off as in-genuine. I've said it before, but I've never felt that Hillary's concern for minorities was ever genuine. It always came across as patronizing. We were always just tools for her to fuel her messiah complex. It was never about us. It was always about her helping us. Reminds me of this video. "Let's get back to the issues." SMH

The only time she comes off as genuine is when she loses and has a pity party for herself.

 

[Sinfamy]

I don't think PoliGAF is as bad as some are saying, but the shit they pulled over the past year left hard feelings. It is made worse when the candidate they were so smugly advocating ended up losing to a modern day fascist, making all that shit they pulled over the past year meaningless.

So, yeah. PoliGAF should not be "nuked", but it does deserve harsh criticism for its behavior.

They need to be moved here:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=20

 

[Vagabundo]

Maybe, but in the long run, what I feel is the biggest thing to worry about is if Trump improves the economy in the Rust Belt states, even if he has nothing to do with it. If that happens, you can kiss that shit goodbye for 2020.

A note: I am not wishing for their economy to be shit. I want everyone to have success. What I am saying is that Trump pierced the blue wall. The door is open now. Clinton fumbled, Trump recovered. It's his to lose.

Or win.

...Bigly.

I'm sure that the massive infrastructure spend will help with job creation. His other trade policies will cause inflation. He'll also be fucking over the country bigly with massive long term debt and some of the money coming from his off-shore tax amnesty - which apple cant use now since 19 billion is tired up in escrow.

His climate change shit is the worse, because with all the shit he can do this will cause the most long term damage to everyone.

 

[Rentahamster]

Obviously there's a chance he will benefit from the natural swing in economic fortune, but think it's likely he will quickly be shown to be a false prophet.

Maybe, but if there's a pattern to be recognized from the past year, one of them surely is this:

 

[Debirudog]

So we're only slingling shit at this point.

 

[Rentahamster]

It was never about us. It was always about her helping us.

#sheswithus

#imwithher

 

[Maintenance]

It's not like that's surprising, one look at the GAF threads and you'll see the same thing happening

 

[Rentahamster]

I'm sure that the massive infrastructure spend will help with job creation. His other trade policies will cause inflation. He'll also be fucking over the country bigly with massive long term debt and some of the money coming from his off-shore tax amnesty - which apple cant use now since 19 billion is tired up in escrow.

His climate change shit is the worse, because with all the shit he can do this will cause the most long term damage to everyone.

Short term economic gains that come at the expense of long term environmental health. Best propaganda that looks like success. There are of course exceptions to the magnitude of each of those factors, but the main point stands.

 

[SURGEdude]

Maybe, but if there's a pattern to be recognized from the past year, one of them surely is this:

Fair. But if the perception is that the rust belt was swung by perceived economics then that seems a reasonable place to assume a failure on his part might be the start of a turn around. I mean remember it's not that he's popular, she just was even less so.

I think there is absolutely an argument for having the election taken from her by outside factors. She was attacked by both the FBI as well as the Russians / Wikileaks. Having said that it is also her fault. The minute her deplorables speech was released I knew she irrevocably fucked up. The message was not about unity but us v them.

When she said her proudest enemy was republicans during the debate I remember wondering if she had lost it. Like you just don't say that out loud. Even if I would have wanted to say the same thing in her situation.

I appreciated the honest, but wasn't gonna play well.

 

[Boney]

Man if you all don't get grip and stop acting like PoliGAF is some humongous country wide organization that wields the power to swing entire elections, Im gonna lose my mind

. Jesus Christ, never has a community thread been so overhyped.

Nah man, people were legit upset at how all the usuals acted throughout the campaign. And since hillgaf was PoliGAF, it was always a situation when one would get piled on. PoliGAF stance was if you don't say stupid shit them you're not going to get shat on, and stupid shit meant not sucking on Hillary's tit.

Hell I remember people after the primaries unapologetically admitting on underhanded practices, like the Bernie bro narrative, as things they intentionally used to win the primaries.

 

[mjp2417]

I think you're overestimating the long term divide. Trump's first act of evil in the Oval will bring us back together. The concern isn't if we coalesce, it's where the energy and focus is put after that happens. If it slides back to the people running this recent shitshow then there's reason for alarm.

I admire your optimism, but never underestimate the fractiousness of the American left. It's kinda how we roll. This is also the first time since the OG Clinton era that there has been a really stark fundamental ideological divide within the party about its future. The gap between the worldviews of Clinton and Sanders (despite the attempt to paper over the cracks) is much more severe than that between say Kerry and Dean, or between Kerry/Dean and Obama. They were all largely part of the same zeitgeist. My initial sense is that we need to find a transitional figure between the Clintons/Obama era and an eventual reconstructed/repackaged Sanders era who, maybe most importantly, is charismatic as fuck. I'd love if that turned out to be Keith Ellison, but I have no illusions about my country choosing a fucking Muslim at this point.

 

[SURGEdude]

Short term economic gains that come at the expense of long term environmental health. Best propaganda that looks like success. There are of course exceptions to the magnitude of each of those factors, but the main point stands.

Doing long term harm to please voters is exactly what I expect once he feels any heat. It's smart as hell and it's not like he actually gives a fuck. I mean he is, after all, a rich sociopath.

 

[Rentahamster]

Fair. But if the perception is that the rust belt was swung by perceived economics then that seems a reasonable place to assume a failure on his part might be the start of a turn around. I mean remember it's not that he's popular, she just was even less so.

Oh, most definitely. I just don't want to start wishing against Michigan's economic prosperity just because it'll hurt Trump. That's not the kind of politics I want to be a part of. If Trump somehow makes America great again er than it already is, fuck it, I can accept that. (tempered by my fears about the environment as I laid out in my previous post, of course)

 

[D.Lo]

#sheswithus

#imwithher

'I'm With Her' has got to be the most self-centred campaign slogan I've ever heard. Like, how did that happen.

Make America Great Again
Change We Can Believe In
A Stronger America

All about the people. 'How I will help YOU to a better future' type messages.

'I'm With Her'? Where's the service? It's basically saying 'You are so lucky I'm here and letting you come along with me'.

Like, might as well have made it one of those generic candidate ones, 'Vote Hillary' or 'Hillary's the one' or whatever. At least that doesn't have any 'you have to to something for me' implication.

Even negative ones, like Romney's 'Obama Isn't Working' - at least they're not about Romney.

 

[ColdPizza]

Wow. They're still smug. I don't know how to tell you guys this, but you'll get the same from a Warren campaign unless things change between now and 2020

 

[Debirudog]

'I'm With Her' has got to be the most self-centred campaign slogan I've ever heard. Like, how did that happen.

Make America Great Again
Change We Can Believe In
A Stronger America

All about the people. 'How I will help YOU to a better future' type messages.

'I'm With Her'? Where's the service? It's basically saying 'You are so lucky I'm here and letting you come along with me'.

Like, might as well have made it one of those generic candidate ones, 'Vote Hillary' or 'Hillary's the one' or whatever. At least that doesn't have any 'you have to to something for me' implication.

Even negative ones, like Romney's 'Obama Isn't Working' - at least they're not about Romney.

I guess you could also ignore Stronger Together just to shit on Hillary further.

 

[D.Lo]

I guess you could also ignore Stronger Together just to shit on Hillary further.

That one is fine, but 'I'm With Her' was an official slogan right?

Edit: Yep, it's on her website right now. You can still buy merch with both slogans right now.

So you can't defend 'I'm with Her' so deflect with 'but she had another slogan as well'?

 

[Boney]

That one is fine, but 'I'm With Her' was an official slogan right?

Not sure how prevalent it was after the primaries. It was probably an answer to Feel the Bern

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I guess you could also ignore Stronger Together just to shit on Hillary further.

I bet no more than 10% of Americans could correctly identify Stronger Together as Clinton's campaign slogan. Even Bill Clinton misquoted it when it was on the podium in front of him!

 

[sunshine and gasoline]

They aren't blaming themselves? Idiots. Hope they aren't around for 2020.

 

[Apollo]

Thank you wikileaks from showing me the light. That's was hurt her more then anything.

 

[WillyFive]

I guess you could also ignore Stronger Together just to shit on Hillary further.

Stronger Together was a really weak and poor phrase. You can't chant it, it lacks action and excitement, and doesn't motivate anyone to do anything.

 

[entremet]

Bernie would've won and I wasn't a Bernie fan, but there was a palpable enthusiasm I saw for Bernie that I didn't see for Clinton. No one was excited for Clinton in the type of virality online that Bernie was.

Clinton was the "not Trump" basically. She had no compelling narrative.

 

[Elandyll]

Clinton and her campaign are obviously to be added to the factors, but #1 by far is voter apathy.

If you want to know why Trump is president, and you didn't vote in a now red state, or battleground state, go stand in front of a mirror.

30% frickin Hispanic vote for Trump. More than for Romney.

 

[Debirudog]

That one is fine, but 'I'm With Her' was an official slogan right?

Assuming it is, you can't defend 'I'm with Her' so deflect with 'but she had another slogan as well'?

you were trying to talk smack to her because you think she was being selfish. Feel the Bern was ok but I'm with Her is not?
Then I pointed out she had another slogan that was more about unity.

I'll even argue I'm with Her was the idea that you're supporting a female candidate which many feminist shat on her for not embracing the fact that she was a woman candidate in 2008 so this seems like just a blatant attack on her character.

 

[teruterubozu]

Fuck this campaign. Ugh Hillary was a huge mistake.

 

[SURGEdude]

I admire your optimism, but never underestimate the fractiousness of the American left. It's kinda how we roll. This is also the first time since the OG Clinton era that there has been a really stark fundamental ideological divide within the party about its future. The gap between the worldviews of Clinton and Sanders (despite the attempt to paper over the cracks) is much more severe than that between say Kerry and Dean, or between Kerry/Dean and Obama. They were all largely part of the same zeitgeist. My initial sense is that we need to find a transitional figure between the Clintons/Obama era and an eventual reconstructed/repackaged Sanders era who, maybe most importantly, is charismatic as fuck. I'd love if that turned out to be Keith Ellison, but I have no illusions about my country choosing a fucking Muslim at this point.

I agree that our lack of unity has historically been frustrating, and that divide is fairly wide at the moment. But that range of opinion has also been a strength and a place of deft evolution. It's things like samesex marriage came about because of that split, happened with sometimes surprising speed.

I think a transitional charismatic figure is likely. Yet I think a more radical person with the same charisma might be possible as well. Skipping the step between the past and the future would be of strategic benefit.

On a side note I think guns need to become a smaller focus. I don't think it's worth the damage with some rural voters and other more important work could have the shifted political capital expended on them. When we come back to considerable influence only then should it become a major talking point again.

 

[Debirudog]

i admit just reading this thread makes me angry as a Hillary supporter. The hillary venting is understandable but I feel the poligaf demonization just makes me sad when I feel the community has humbled a bit.

Most importantly, I am concerned that this hatred for those who supported Hillary would be lashed out at. I just ask that we forgive and learn for the sake of unity.

 

[Boney]

Bernie would've won and I wasn't a Bernie fan, but there was a palpable enthusiasm I saw for Bernie that I didn't see for Clinton. No one was excited for Clinton in the type of virality online that Bernie was.

Clinton was the "not Trump" basically. She had no compelling narrative.

On top of that, all of Clinton's weaknesses which was the only thing Trump had to run for were Bernie's biggest assets.

 

[SolidSnakex]

'I'm With Her' has got to be the most self-centred campaign slogan I've ever heard. Like, how did that happen.

Make America Great Again
Change We Can Believe In
A Stronger America

All about the people. 'How I will help YOU to a better future' type messages.

'I'm With Her'? Where's the service? It's basically saying 'You are so lucky I'm here and letting you come along with me'.

Like, might as well have made it one of those generic candidate ones, 'Vote Hillary' or 'Hillary's the one' or whatever. At least that doesn't have any 'you have to to something for me' implication.

Even negative ones, like Romney's 'Obama Isn't Working' - at least they're not about Romney.

Don't forget another one of Obama's great slogans was

"Yes WE Can"

I thought it was even better than "Change We Can Believe In". It's what Obama supporters would chant. It was not only an inclusive slogan, but also a very positive message. Telling people that despite what others may be saying, Yes We Can change thing.

 

[Maintenance]

Don't forget another one of Obama's great slogans was

"Yes WE Can"

"Yes we can" was an amazing slogan.

 

[Chariot]

you were trying to talk smack to her because you think she was being selfish. Feel the Bern was ok but I'm with Her is not?
Then I pointed out she had another slogan that was more about unity.

Yes, Feel the Bern was okay and I'm with Her was not. Feel the Bern was more than feeling Bernie, it was a play on Burn. And what burn? The Burn the establishment is going to get. After all Bernie was about Political Revolution (part of another slogan) and Enough is Enough (another slogan). I'm with Her was nothing else than it was on the surface. Being with Hillary.

And being with Hillary as a slogan is especially dangerous when selling Hillary as not Trump. Quite some people weren't with Hillary, they were against Trump.

 

[Fitts]

...Trump's going to get a second term, isn't he?

 

[Audioboxer]

Biggest issue was Clintons campaign starting from a position of we've won, whilst they viewed Trump as he's lost.

Next time take an opponent seriously no matter who it is. Probably not a great idea to be announcing fireworks celebrations of your win a week before voting even ends.

People vote republican and will always vote republican. Trump was just a meat puppet to them. You have to get your side on board to vote and spending all your time bitching about how bad the other side is isn't always going to get everyone who's a democrat on board. Especially not when you're also screaming about how you've already won. Pepe memes and the deplorables aren't what won the vote, it was the apparent liberals on your own side who didn't vote for you.

Harsh words, but there needs to be a change for 2020 or Orange man may well get a 2nd term, or at least his party might. Republicans went out and voted in the numbers expected given statistical trends, Democrats did not.

 

[PdotMichael]

i admit just reading this thread makes me angry as a Hillary supporter. The hillary venting is understandable but I feel the poligaf demonization just makes me sad when I feel the community has humbled a bit.

A bit isn't enough. If people already repeating the same shit again.

Sanders and his supporters are still getting branded as racists there for example.

 

[Johnny M]

Could you tell me US gaf why Jim Webb wasn't picked for the dems candidate? He seemed to me the most solid candidate, just in the middle of Hillary and Bernie, and yet with the pros of being a war vet and pro middle class workers.

 

[Boney]

Yes, Feel the Bern was okay and I'm with Her was not. Feel the Bern was more than feeling Bernie, it was a play on Burn. And what burn? The Burn the establishment is going to get. After all Bernie was about Political Revolution (part of another slogan) and Enough is Enough (another slogan). I'm with Her was nothing else than it was on the surface. Being with Hillary.

And being with Hillary as a slogan is especially dangerous when selling Hillary as not Trump. Quite some people weren't with Hillary, they were against Trump.

Feel the Bern is also about being passionate

Could you tell me US gaf why Jim Webb wasn't picked for the dems candidate? He seemed to me the most solid candidate, just in the middle of Hillary and Bernie, and yet with the pros of being a war vet and pro middle class workers.

Because it was always going to be Clinton. You would be running against your own peril

 

[Violet_0]

...Trump's going to get a second term, isn't he?

only under the assumption that the country isn't all dust and ruins by then

always the optimist, I see!

 

[D.Lo]

you were trying to talk smack to her because you think she was being selfish. Feel the Bern was ok but I'm with Her is not?
Then I pointed out she had another slogan that was more about unity.

I'll even argue I'm with Her was the idea that you're supporting a female candidate which many feminist shat on her for not embracing the fact that she was a woman candidate in 2008 so this seems like just a blatant attack on her character.

I didn't say she was being selfish, I said it was a bad slogan because it sounded self-centred. Yes I'm with Her was clearly an attempt for a feminist message, but like many other things from her campaign was IMO tone deaf, and ends up sounding self-centred.

 

[Debirudog]

Yes, Feel the Bern was okay and I'm with Her was not. Feel the Bern was more than feeling Bernie, it was a play on Burn. And what burn? The Burn the establishment is going to get. After all Bernie was about Political Revolution (part of another slogan) and Enough is Enough (another slogan). I'm with Her was nothing else than it was on the surface. Being with Hillary.

And being with Hillary as a slogan is especially dangerous when selling Hillary as not Trump. Quite some people weren't with Hillary, they were against Trump.

Alright, I give up on the slogan argument, it was an act of my biases for Hillary.

I don't really agree with trying to tear down the establishment and I guess that's where the divide really is. But after this election, we can't afford to stay fractured and while I agree to wash away the Clinton loyalists, I just wish we could move on at some point and focus on the bigger threat.

I guess this is the wrong thread for me to start preaching kumbuya so I'll mind my own business. What I'm afraid is that we're going to stay fractured and I don't want that at all.

 

[FreedomFighter]

Red Wedding - Part 2

I blame establishment Dems for this bloody massacre. Their centrist, corporatist, Neo-liberalist policies - their loyalty to Goldman Sacs over ordinary people, their push for TPP/TTIP, their HUBRIS - all contributed to this.

Time to purge the DNC. Time to build a true progressive movement.

 

[Maledict]

A bit isn't enough. If people already repeating the same shit again.

Sanders and his supporters are still getting branded as racists there for example.

Where are the posts saying Sanders was racist?

 

[Chariot]

Feel the Bern is also about being passionate

Right on. As someone else also mentioned, it's also very chantable.

Alright, I give up on the slogan argument, it was an act of my biases for Hillary.

I don't really agree with trying to tear down the establishment and I guess that's where the divide really is. But after this election, we can't afford to stay fractured and while I agree to wash away the Clinton loyalists, I just wish we could move on at some point and focus on the bigger threat.

I guess this is the wrong thread for me to start preaching kumbuya so I'll mind my own business. What I'm afraid is that we're going to stay fractured and I don't want that at all.

Yes, absolutely. The left needs to get it together and stand united. I hope that from the ashes people like Bernie Sanders will have the opportunity to take charge and stop Trump in four years with actual enthusiasm.