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DF Retro: Tomb Raider - PS1/SAT/PC

I played the saturn and pc versions first as I didn't have a playstation until late in its life cycle. I remember the sequels holding up quite favourably on PC, but I could be wrong.
 
Excellent! I just did a check last week to see of DF retro had covered this game, as it seems like such a perfect topic.
 
Ah, fond memories of a great game (I played it on PS1). I think TR2 was the game I was playing when I bought a voodoo 3DFX card - wow, what a difference that made!
 
Nice to see Dark10 dispel the myth that the Japanese Saturn version of "Tomb Raiders" had enhancements over the original UK release. That is a weird one in general.

I still think it is interesting to see what Core achieved on the Sega Saturn. But yeesh, that framerate is really quite awful compared to PS1 version. I had no idea that the PS1 port ran at a solid 30fps with no real slowdown (at least not in the areas shown in the video).

Unfortunately I never really had a chance to play the PlayStation 1 version. I originally had the Saturn port and then bought the DOS port much later, as well as Tomb Raider Gold for the PC. I was never really familiar with that version of the game. I spent most of my time with the PC port in software rendering mode.

The mobile versions really aren't that bad if you own a decent enough gamepad accessory/ attachement for your device. But yeah, trying to play Tomb Raider with touch controls is not fun.

Great video though.
 
This is the game that made me hate autoaim. I don't think I experienced it in any game before. All the shooting felt so lame because you didn't have to do anything. I played the PC version with 3dfx patch. Never finished it.
 
abracadaver said:
This is the game that made me hate autoaim. I don't think I experienced it in any game before. All the shooting felt so lame because you didn't have to do anything. I played the PC version with 3dfx patch. Never finished it.
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This game controlled horribly and I'd never go back to it... But hey, it was good for the time.
 
Damn I wish they would bring the whole anthology remastered to the PS4pro. I haven't played TR3 or Chronicles in too long.
 
Is it correct that the PSX captures are using a (probably the Framemeister's) scanline filter, while the Saturn ones are not?
 
Weird to think I first bought this game exactly 20 years ago tomorrow! Hadn't really considered it.

Now I'm wondering if I should buy Rise off Amazon to turn up tomorrow or see if there's any deals for it on the day...
 
dark10x said:
Yeah, Rayman 2 will be a huge project in terms of resource gathering.

Production time varies per episode but the basic gist is - 24 to 72 hours. Half-Life 2 and Goldeneye, for instance, were solid three day affairs. Silent Hill 2 took two days.

Smaller episodes can happen more quickly. It depends on the depth of info to be presented. Symphony of the Night, for instance, is one of the shorter episodes but took as long as GE and HL2 due to the need to illustrate how VDP1 and 2 worked as best as possible.

The issue is that I need to focus on regular DF work as well which requires a lot of time.

DF Retro only works due to the fact that I already have intimate knowledge of these games prior to covering them. I just brush up on them with light research to confirm that I'm correct and just roll into it. I tend to plan out the episodes in my head first then go through and basically make a capture check-list of everything I need. The episodes are fairly modular by design which makes it easy to go back and add more if I need. I could easily expand out the Wii section on Metroid Prime, for instance, if I had the time.

I don't know what the workflow looks like for other people doing videos, but I pretty much focus on delivering reasonably decent production values and interesting information as fast as possible. If I had a week or more to work on a single episode, man, the results could be really special.
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I didn't manage to answer in the last thread in time, so just let me do it here.

I really appreciate the insight into your work process. It's fascinating for me to see how fast you can turn around an episode like this. Hopefully with growing success you'll be able to take your time a little more for this project and have the community/devs be more aware to support you with little unknown facts and insight into the development process.

Excellent video once again. Loved the insight into the Saturns rendering method!
And with the tease for more of Crystal Dynamics to come, I can only hope that it means a dive into the Legacy of Kain/Soul Reaver series :)
...Or Gex :P
 
abracadaver said:
This is the game that made me hate autoaim. I don't think I experienced it in any game before. All the shooting felt so lame because you didn't have to do anything. I played the PC version with 3dfx patch. Never finished it.
Click to expand...

Well, Tomb Raider is NOT a shooting game, so of course combat is not the focus. It's a 3D platformer with some (admittedly undercooked) action elements to add a little diversity between all the platforming.
 
Remij said:
:)
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Happy to see it! It's one of the firesale games I got with my QD.

Lafazar said:
Well, Tomb Raider is NOT a shooting game, so of course combat is not the focus. It's a 3D platformer with some (admittedly undercooked) action elements to add a little diversity between all the platforming.
Click to expand...

Yeah. A problem with TR2 is the increased focus on combat. Felt no guilt using cheats to give the best weapons and ammo to trivialize combat.
 
xyla said:
I didn't manage to answer in the last thread in time, so just let me do it here.

I really appreciate the insight into your work process. It's fascinating for me to see how fast you can turn around an episode like this. Hopefully with growing success you'll be able to take your time a little more for this project and have the community/devs be more aware to support you with little unknown facts and insight into the development process.

Excellent video once again. Loved the insight into the Saturns rendering method!
And with the tease for more of Crystal Dynamics to come, I can only hope that it means a dive into the Legacy of Kain/Soul Reaver series :)
...Or Gex :P
Click to expand...
Soul Reaver would be interesting as IIRC the Dreamcast ver. of the game was pretty good compared to the PSOne ver.
 
abracadaver said:
This is the game that made me hate autoaim. I don't think I experienced it in any game before. All the shooting felt so lame because you didn't have to do anything. I played the PC version with 3dfx patch. Never finished it.
Click to expand...
Sometimes I like autoaim as it can make a game more about movement and positioning rather then aiming. In TR's case though yeah it's the weakest aspect of the game especially in enclosed spaces or against human enemies.

Such a shame modern Tomb Raider now focuses on the least important mechanic in the original game and went backwards with the rest of it.
 
Nice vid. Too bad TR2 (and at least one other Core title) never saw release on Saturn despite it being nearly complete thanks to Sony cutting in. I played TR1 at E3 the year it released and was almost more impressed with that than I was with Super Mario 64 being playable at the same show. I bought the import PAL Saturn version to have as early as possible as I was entranced by that game's focus on exploration and platforming. Ended up buying the PSX version not long after. Still the best entry in the entire franchise although Anniversary is a worthy substitute, IMO. Still a shame the series morphed into another dumb cinematic third person shooter over the years, though.
 
Great video, thank you.

Tomb Raider on the PS1 was quite literally a game changer for me, an absolutely wonderful game in so many different ways with an unmatched atmosphere. Would happily have swapped all of the extras that were included in the PS4 version of Tomb Raider: 20 Year Celebration for a good HD remaster of the original Tomb Raider. A vastly better way to celebrate the twenty years of Tomb Raider, for me.

For me, it's still by far the best game in the Tomb Raider series.
 
Maybe I should give it a try again on PC with the ATI 3D wrapper.
Looked pretty decent in the video.
I want to use my Xbox One controller, what is preferable?
joy2key or Xpadder?
 
arit said:
Then there are some crazy artifacts running across the Playstation's picture, which darkens every nth line a little bit. Or am I imagining things?
Click to expand...
It's PS1 dithering. YT seems to be at fault since it's not visible in the same way when viewing the original file.
 
MightyHedgehog said:
Nice vid. Too bad TR2 (and at least one other Core title) never saw release on Saturn despite it being nearly complete thanks to Sony cutting in. I played TR1 at E3 the year it released and was almost more impressed with that than I was with Super Mario 64 being playable at the same show. I bought the import PAL Saturn version to have as early as possible as I was entranced by that game's focus on exploration and platforming. Ended up buying the PSX version not long after. Still the best entry in the entire franchise although Anniversary is a worthy substitute, IMO. Still a shame the series morphed into another dumb cinematic third person shooter over the years, though.
Click to expand...

I've heard rumours about the cancelled Sega Saturn Tomb Raider 2, but has there ever been any media shown of that version? I wonder what they did with those builds, and did anyone ever steal a back up?
 
I remember, as a Sega fanboy back then, becoming so excited when I first learned about this game in a gamefan magazine. And then becoming so so salty when the ps version had become so much better :(
 
Glad to see the iOS port mentioned. Despite being on a system that's really not made for it, the fact that they made it widescreen I thought was really cool, which I've found hard to do on the PC version I have on Steam (You seemed to figure out how though, Dark)

If anything the iOS port makes me mad because they could very easily do the same thing, but for consoles. With the new Tomb Raider recently, I'm amazed they didn't take the iOS port and put them on Xbox One & PS4. for a 20th anniversary thing. Heck, they did Tomb Raider II as well!
 
Brilliant video yet again. As others have said I'm left salivating at the thought of the eventual Legacy of Kain episode.
 
I bought the Saturn version when it was released in the UK, a good while ahead of the PS version. Loved it.

With regards to the Saturn sound effects being lower quality, some were missing entirely like the wolves howling. I always thought it was a bit odd watching the howling animation with complete silence but assumed it was supposed to be like that until I played the Playstation version years later.

The mummies hissing was also not in the Saturn game and shit me right up when I got to that part on PSX!

Maybe the Saturn version was rushed out to beat the Playstation?
 
Cool video to see. Tomb Raider 1 was both the start and almost the end of my video game adventures back in the day. In 96, I had only just turned 11 when TR1 came out for the PS1 in Europe. I was clearly way too young for the violence, but more so the intricate puzzles. I don't think I've yet to best the original game without cheat codes.

Anyway, it all started with my dad finding out that I had been playing a demo of a fantastic game called Tekken 2, and he was sooo mad. One day the entire demo disc was gone and to this day, I have no idea what happened to it.

Of course, this put the fear in me that my parents would continue to dictate what I could play and TR1 was coming up. 20 years later and I can still remember the exact moment I had to explain to my mom that I knew that the violence wasn't real life, at the age of 11, and that Lara Croft was shooting all kinds of dangerous animals. I'm not sure if I mentioned it but my dad's a hunter so the hypocrisy was pretty adamant to me at the time. And the argument took and I managed to buy the game later on!

But it didn't take long for my younger self to get stuck, and I got stuck so hard that I truly considered giving up on video games altogether. I even lent the game to a random boy in my class, someone I hardly knew at all.

I don't usually let friends borrow games because who knows if you're ever gonna get them back, and in what condition. But this one time it turned out to be a savior of my entire connection to the games medium.

As I said, I got stuck in TR1 and couldn't figure out how to proceed. And I was stuck on like level 2 at the most stupid puzzle. But this boy from my class had learnt a trick from his older brother, namely that you could hold a button to drag/push boxes out of walls! :lol

I was awestruck at this massive revelation! :O A stupid block in a wall almost killed my entire interest in video games and I owe it all to a random guy and his brother who cracked the code xD

Now I've been a gamer for over 20 years with a Master's degree in game design looking for work. Things really changed.
 
jmga said:
I think it would be great in these videos to talk about how emulation improves original console release, for example with Tomb Raider where dancing textures and unstable polygons are all over the place:

http://www.libretro.com/index.php/mednafenbeetle-psx-pgxp-arrives/

In the Silent Hill 2 episode would have been great to see the game running on PCSX2.
Click to expand...

The PS2 version of Silent Hill 2 WAS shown running on PCSX2 in that episode. It was even nominated as the preferred way to play the game nowadays.

I didn't even know the texture warping and polygon jittering on PSX and Saturn can be fixed by emulators (texture warping yes, but I always thought the jittering was due to integer math which is part of the game code itself). Is this a recent development? If so, does this work out of the box for all games or do you need a patch/specific settings for every single game? Edit: Just read the Link. Fascinating.

Though in this case it's kinda unnecessary since the patched PC version seems pretty much perfect.
 
Man this game looks so smooth with the ATI patch, and sounds great with the FLAC music.
Just completed the 1st half of the caverns, feels good.
 
I've only played the iOS port...with the touch controls.

It wasn't ideal but you get used to it. I was frustrated with two puzzles though:

- there was on where you had to quickly jump over zigzagging columns before a countdown ended

- then there was one where you had to pull a lever and quickly run to reach a door before it closed on you. Took me days to do that with touch controls.

Unfortunately I made it to level 8 or 9 and an update killed my saves. Ugh. Couldn't stomach restarting.
 
Lafazar said:
The PS2 version of Silent Hill 2 WAS shown running on PCSX2 in that episode. It was even nominated as the preferred way to play the game nowadays.

I didn't even know the texture warping and polygon jittering on PSX and Saturn can be fixed by emulators (texture warping yes, but I always thought the jittering was due to integer math which is part of the game code itself). Is this a recent development? If so, does this work out of the box for all games or do you need a patch/specific settings for every single game? Edit: Just read the Link. Fascinating.

Though in this case it's kinda unnecessary since the patched PC version seems pretty much perfect.
Click to expand...

You are right, they did indeed show it.

I felt that something was missing in that video about the PCSX2 version, I just revisited the video and it is that he didn't mention the 16:9 hack and that you can simply fix the FMVs issue by switching to software renderer during FMVs(it is a toggle in the options menu).
 
Fantastic video. The first two Tomb Raider are some old favorites, with some really clever and complex level design. They remain surprisingly atmospheric as well, for games whose worlds are essentially built out of cubes.

I never knew that the Saturn used distorted sprites to render 3D - it's always fun to see how back in the early days of 3D graphics, developers would use unconventional methods like these to push otherwise limited hardware.
 
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