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[Mammoth Jones]

Threatened people do not change. Everyone saying "fuck racists" are feeling threatened too, one should remember that.

The article suggests person to person discussions, canvassing activism and more, citing that it's a long hard road reqiring multiple instances. So in other words, Activism is key.

I'm supposed to have a "personal discussion" with a person that spat on my mother and called her a monkey nigger?

Fuck a personal discussion. There's nothing to discuss on a personal level. The problem is when government enables and empowers these bigots. That's what people are worried and upset about.

Activism only works when the government can be brought to the table. And it's ALWAYS kicking and screaming. Never "Well, you made a well articulated and completely reasoned argument, let's change!" it's "Fuck, these niggers are making us look bad on the tv by getting beat and waterhosed....dammit".

And to be blunt we BEEN having conversations for over a century. Certain portions of the population plugged their fingers in their ears and some of their decedents continue to do so.

 

[Croatoan]

It blows my mind how much better this plan is for helping coal communities than Trump's plan to save what's obviously a dying industry. Too bad it didn't get more attention. I voted for Hillary and I never heard about this.


lol at the guy's username being Seeya

Hillary could have destroyed Trump in the debates even more if Climate Change had come up. Most of America, including a lot of Republicans, actually believe in Climate Change. But until it is front and center politically and constantly harped on by the media, they likely wont prioritize it.

 

[B4s5C]

I think some white liberals don't want people with racist ideas to change. They enjoy making fun of them too much. They get to enjoy feeling superior without having any repercussions minorities do.

I could see that bit I don't really know.

But I do know nonviolent communication works. When I see people respond the way they are doing here, it honestly just makes me sad because I feel progress isn't being held back by Republicans, but rather humanity as a whole. Humans overall are more keen to the 'easy' manner of conscious processing (System 1) where they don't have to put too much conscious thoughts into their beliefs towards others and their behavior. Racists and people so vigorously wanting to call out racists (and leave it at that) are defaulting to the easy way of thinking. It takes conscious effort from one person to challenge another person to also consciously challenge and engage System 2.

See Daniel Kahnemans two systems if you are interested in the decision making of people. Ots interesting stuff.

 

[leakey]

Sure would be nice if these white liberals would talk to their racist family members and friends.

Let's see how many people do that over the holidays this year. Waiting on the GAF threads of people just ghosting friends or complaining about it without a decent conversation or hearty attempt to have friends/family see the other side.

EDIT: Of course, some people refuse to be reached or entertain other ideas, but we can give it a shot. I'm not looking forward to the conversations over the dinner table with some extended family this holiday season, but I'm gonna put my point of view known.

 

[TheLaughingStock]

I understand that it's difficult not to call people out. I know it's frustrating when people don't listen. But do you know what I see?

Through all of these words, I haven't seen a single person say "this article is wrong because this method is more effective." It's just "stop telling us to coddle racists" or "we've been educating people."

I understand the anger. And here's the thing - regardless of who is in the wrong, if our goal is to *make change*, we know what is effective and what isn't.



It doesn't normalize them if your goal is change. Does it suck that people can't hear that certain ideas are racist? For sure. But if you dismantle the idea itself, without a catch-all term (accurate be it as it may), you make allies and move the ball forward.

The article is wrong. Blacks would be likely worse off had they taken this approach. The oppressed don't have to figure out ways to coddle racists. They need to take a risk and try to force the issue if they want a better life by calling it like they see it.

 

[EatinOlives]

It blows my mind how much better this plan is for helping coal communities than Trump's plan to save what's obviously a dying industry. Too bad it didn't get more attention. I voted for Hillary and I never heard about this.

This graph is no joke:

The election cycle was a complete circus as far as the media was concerned. Almost no talk of anything substantial, just reality-show-esque "scandals" and "hot takes".

 

[Darryl M R]

Ah I see. I agree. I definitely don't want to insult anyone that calls me a nigger.

 

[Croatoan]

I'm supposed to have a "personal discussion" with a person that spat on my mother and called her a monkey nigger?

Fuck a personal discussion. There's nothing to discuss on a personal level. The problem is when government enables and empowers these bigots. That's what people are worried and upset about.

Activism only works when the government can be brought to the table. And it's ALWAYS kicking and screaming. Never "Well, you made a well articulated and completely reasoned argument, let's change!" it's "Fuck, these niggers are making us look bad on the tv by getting beat and waterhosed....dammit".

Uhh, no, but you could have a conversation with that nice white lady down the block that waves at you when you go for a jog, and doesn't understand why voting for Trump lumps her in the same group as the person that did that to your mom.

 

[Seik]

One's humanity should never be up to debate

I think this is the simplest, clearest way to think about this issue.

Unfortunately, what seems to be common sense for us, isn't for many. I can't even wrap my head that racism was so strong until last week, big eye-opener and this is fucking sad.

I thought that generation of people was at their death beds waiting to die, at my grand surprise I saw the stats that a lot of young voters went racist, humanity lost many points.

I mean, do we really have to knock at every racists doors to show them that If we split a white and black person in two, the insides are exactly the same?

 

[Camp Freddie]

People can be convinced to be less racist but calling them racist generally doesn't work, as this election proves.

There is a difference between being a racist and doing something that is racist. I think most people have occasionally done things that are at least a little bit racist (our opinions and behaviours being products of a culture that contains a significant degree of racism).

Trump voters voted for someone who's made a lot of racist statements. You could even say that they voted for a racist.
But that does not make them irredeemable racists themselves. It just means they did something that supported racism. Most of them were just looking for a way to improve their lives, even if they were horrendously short-sighted and tunnel-visioned in doing so.

Here's an old video about it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0Ti-gkJiXc

And in a more general sense, just try and think of anything you've ever changed your opinion about. I can be almost certain it's because you had the opposing viewpoint explained to you calmly. People just don't change their minds when they're insulted, and calling someone racist is an insult (and ironically, a moderate 'diet racist' would be more insulted than a full-on white supremacist).

 

[Sami+]

It's a sad truth that will have to be taken into account soon.

A lot of racists will have to be coddled now in order to hopefully sway them away from those ingrained views

This is the weakass shit that makes us losers. American Conservatism and the Republican Party are very clearly deplorable, evil, and backwards thinking and yet they took 100% control and humiliated us this cycle because they doubled down on their base and strengthened their rhetoric. Over the past eight years they've gotten louder, more stubborn, more angry, and completely refused to work with us on anything. And they won.

Why do we keep reaching across the aisle and trying to compromise? Why do we keep trying to convert people instead of tapping into the raw emotional power that our base has, like they did? Liberals need to stop being so fucking weak. We have the numbers, if we mobilize and unite we don't need to convert anybody anyway.

Don't want to treat minorities like human beings? Then you're a racist/sexist/homophobe/whatever. That's it. Call a spade a spade. Tell it like it is.

 

[Vicetrailia]

I'm supposed to have a "personal discussion" with a person that spat on my mother and called her a monkey nigger?

Fuck a personal discussion. There's nothing to discuss on a personal level. The problem is when government enables and empowers these bigots. That's what people are worried and upset about.

Activism only works when the government can be brought to the table. And it's ALWAYS kicking and screaming. Never "Well, you made a well articulated and completely reasoned argument, let's change!" it's "Fuck, these niggers are making us look bad on the tv by getting beat and waterhosed....dammit".

And to be blunt we BEEN having conversations for over a century. Certain portions of the population plugged their fingers in their ears and some of their decedents continue to do so.

Agreed on all points.

On a separate note I wouldn't even try to sway a racist on the internet unless they're showing that they are in the grey zone where they are questioning their own racism.

 

[Infinite]

I agree with your post except for the bolded. This is not exclusive to America. At all.

I don't think this is exclusive to America, or even the biggest issue in America. It's one of the few countries where there actually is a NATIONAL dialogue about it. We still have other countries defending racists traditions are history, or trying to pretend that because their relationships and ideas about race aren't the same as in the US, it doesn't count.

Oh agree and I didnt mean to omply it was exclusive to america. I honestly specifically focused on america mainly because I didn't want someone to quote me and be like "well Canada isn't like that" or some shit. Preemptively filtering the noise I would have to deal with.

 

[Madrin]

You'd think endless Hollywood movies, TV shows, books, and talk shows would have done it, but apparently they missed the last several decades of media...oh, wait, no they didn't. In fact, they were so hyper aware of the attempted education that they threw fits and boycotted shows because there were gay loving couples presented, and boycotted Pepsi because they didn't like it when rappers expressed how racism had damaged their lives. Then they started their own media companies to avoid having to listen to mainstream media about anything.

Not saying your overall point is wrong, but look at how much public opinion on gay marriage has turned around. I think what that shows is some people can be swayed and some can't.

 

[Macam]

I think some white liberals don't want people with racist ideas to change. They enjoy making fun of them too much. They get to enjoy feeling superior without having any repercussions minorities do.

Get outta here with that garbage. I'd rather laugh at actually funny things than have my friends and family demonized and terrorized by shitty people, thanks.

 

[BajiBoxer]

Damn.

Anyways, I'm not here to coddle racists.

We've been here - explaining until we're blue in the face that our humanity is equal and something to be respected.

If calling you out on your bullshit makes you double down on said bullshit, that is a deficiency in you - not the observer.

Y'all in such a hurry to forgive yourselves after this election. Nope. No handwaving today.

I agree that they are the problem, but I think it's also important to look at what works regardless. I also don't think this particular tactic really applies to the overall online world where getting everybody to hold their anger and disgust in for brief and frank one on one conversations is an impossible task.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Uhh, no, but you could have a conversation with that nice white lady down the block that waves at you when you go for a jog, and doesn't understand why voting for Trump lumps her in the same group as the person that did that to your mom.

I've repeatedly said not every Trump supporter/voter is a "racist". But I do say that most of them are simply indifferent to racism he's opened up in terms of bringing it back into the mainstream.

I don't expect anyone to vote for my best interest when theirs are being met. But this "conversation" is met with "fuck illegals they don't belong here" and "muslims are terries!"

It's also impossible to have such a conversation when most true racists aren't going to be honest with me to my face: "Actually I think you're an inferior ape!" isn't something most men are willing to say to my face. If only I could be more tolerant so they'd open up and we could have a real conversation

 

[Enzom21]

Uhh, no, but you could have a conversation with that nice white lady down the block that waves at you when you go for a jog, and doesn't understand why voting for Trump lumps her in the same group as the person that did that to your mom.

Or you know, you could do that as a white person. We're sick of having to prove our humanity to white people. So as a white liberal ally, you should step up.

 

[entremet]

The study didn't implicate responsibility. I agree with most here that minorities are not responsible to engage with a hostile faction.

It's only talking about the efficacy of combating racism.

Personally, I think the study itself is bit flawed since the focus in on trangender people and not on race. Race is another bag of worms here and implicating race from the study is a huge leap.

 

[Kinitari]

I think a trap people fall in is they see deplorable, racist behaviour and attitudes coming from people - some anecdote or news story about someone saying something racist about the president let's say, and they think (or post on GAF) 'Oh I guess they just had some economic anxiety! I guess all these white folk just needed some empathy'.

If the problem with this isn't obvious, it's that you're taking (terrible) isolated instances and using them to dismantle efforts made by some to reach out, add it were and 'covert' people to a more empathetic way of thought.

Beseda's post is a good example of this I think. Did those people they went door to door with, talking to - did they organize a news group to avoid liberal media? Did they throw a tantrum on twitter? Why are we going in with these assumptions? Who is it helping?

I think seeing people trying to empathize with and convert people who are prejudice as the enemy, seeing them as coddlers or at best naive (I've been called both and worse on GAF) is not only a self defeating and illogical mindset, it's a dead end. This is where it leads. Now that more and more people are considering that maybe being pragmatic with and empathetic to those who do us wrong is a good idea, consider really what it is you want, what kind of world you want to live in and what's the best way to get there.

 

[Darryl M R]

So I'm getting a sense that white people will be leading the charge to change the hearts and minds of racists and bigots?

You guys can hold some marches and get hosed down with water and bit by dogs.

I'll be over here playing Watch Dogs 2 and spades.

 

[UncleSporky]

Ah yes, statistic and studies. Let's recap:

-After Obama lowered taxes for most Americans a few years ago, polls showed most Republicans thought he raised them.

-Most Republicans think there has been no warming for decades; deny climate change.

-Most Republicans feel the economy has gotten worse since Obama took office; deny statistics that show otherwise because they "come from the government."

-Most Republicans think America's image abroad has become worse under Obama.

-Many Republicans STILL believe Obama was not born in America and his birth certificate is fake.

Point being: statistics and studies DO NOT MATTER. Ok? Evidence and numbers DO NOT MATTER. They don't fucking matter!

It's like you guys keep pretending that the racist, dumb, white trash in this country are completely open to having their minds changed on topics if they were just presented with evidence. Reality shows that to be false.

This is all posted from a standpoint lamenting the fact that statistics and studies don't matter, that all this data which is clearly based in reality has no real effect on peoples' opinions.

And yet, this is being posted in a thread about the results of a study. Honestly, it's internally consistent: evidence and numbers really don't matter. If people are convinced that discussion and empathy don't work, then no study is going to change anyone's mind.

 

[captainnapalm]

Nothing wrong with calling out clearly racist behaviour as racist. But maybe ease up when it comes to these "micro aggressions" and stuff? That's the kind of thing that has led to this SJW backlash. The left has done itself no favours whatsoever with overly strident and entitled behaviour over the smallest things. And it's clearly already led to some significant losses. It also has the whiff of hypocrisy because some of these people doing the policing are the meanest, angriest, most anti-social people around.

 

[RedHill]

Why are the victims of racism constantly told they're handling it wrong? Stop.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I'm supposed to have a "personal discussion" with a person that spat on my mother and called her a monkey nigger?

Fuck a personal discussion. There's nothing to discuss on a personal level. The problem is when government enables and empowers these bigots. That's what people are worried and upset about.

Activism only works when the government can be brought to the table. And it's ALWAYS kicking and screaming. Never "Well, you made a well articulated and completely reasoned argument, let's change!" it's "Fuck, these niggers are making us look bad on the tv by getting beat and waterhosed....dammit".

And to be blunt we BEEN having conversations for over a century. Certain portions of the population plugged their fingers in their ears and some of their decedents continue to do so.

Yep. Tired of these threads full of people talking about racism as an abstract concept rather than a grim reality. People who actually live it don't frame the whole situation as something the oppressed has to alter about their behavior as if they were the ones creating the hate. Our lack of perspective warps so much about our thought processes.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

I agree that they are the problem, but I think it's also important to look at what works regardless. I also don't think this particular tactic really applies to the overall online world where getting everybody to hold their anger and disgust in for brief and frank one on one conversations is an impossible task.

What works is getting Trump supporters to comprehend that their man has blown every racist dogwhistle imaginable and they need to tell him to cut it the fuck out. That he can articulate his policies without letting all the bigots come out their holes.

But they won't do it cause they don't give a shit. Not their problem.

So I'm getting a sense that white people will be leading the charge to change the hearts and minds of racists and bigots?

You guys can hold some marches and get hosed down with water and bit by dogs.

I'll be over here playing Watch Dogs 2 and spades.

I'll be practicing smiling. And speaking well. Can't afford to lose my job.

 

[Kinitari]

Or you know, you could do that as a white person. We're sick of having to prove our humanity to white people. So as a white liberal ally, you should step up.

Another thing that kind of bothers me - aren't I black? I'm not sick of having those sorts of conversations and I'm willing to. A lot of other minorities in this thread and on GAF are too - take a second and consider that not all minorities feel the same way you do about it

 

[digdug2k]

Imagine, for example, a white man who lost a factory job due to globalization and saw his sister die from a drug overdose due to the opioid painkiller and heroin epidemic — situations that aren’t uncommon today. He tries to complain about his circumstances. But his concerns are downplayed by a politician or racial justice activist, who instead points out that at least he’s doing better than black and brown folks if you look at broad socioeconomic measures.

If someone is talking to you about how they lost their job and their sister died and your answer is "well, at least you're doing better than the blacks", yeah, you're an asshole. But I really doubt that's actually happening. FoxNews wants him to think its happening. Donald Trump wants him to think its happening. But I really doubt that that situation is actually happening.

 

[Croatoan]

Or you know, you could do that as a white person. We're sick of having to prove our humanity to white people. So as a white liberal ally, you should step up.

Who said I wasn't or wouldn't?

 

[EatinOlives]

This is all posted from a standpoint lamenting the fact that statistics and studies don't matter, that all this data which is clearly based in reality has no real effect on peoples' opinions.

And yet, this is being posted in a thread about the results of a study. Honestly, it's internally consistent: evidence and numbers really don't matter. If people are convinced that discussion and empathy don't work, then no study is going to change anyone's mind.

Are you seriously trying to equate this one study with something way better studied and understood like climate change?

And no, this study wasn't about race, it was about transgender discrimination. They're two pretty different things. Vox used it as a jumping off point, which is fine, but don't act like this is "hard science" in the same way that studies on climate change are.

 

[Seik]

Or you know, you could do that as a white person. We're sick of having to prove our humanity to white people. So as a white liberal ally, you should step up.

I know you were answering to him, but please be aware that there are white people fighting against racism.

I myself am getting into debates with my fucking family about these issues, it's breaking my heart that some of my relatives have this POV.

Seriously, this whole shit is ruining my everyday positive attitude lately. What's keeping my chin up is that MY problem is infinitely inferior to what you guys are facing.

 

[Altairre]

Oh agree and I didnt mean to omply it was exclusive to america. I honestly specifically focused on america mainly because I didn't want someone to quote me and be like "well Canada isn't like that" or some shit. Preemptively filtering the noise I would have to deal with.

I figured. Just thought it was worth pointing out. People mistake the lack of a dialogue about racism for the lack of racism. A lot of countries don't talk about it as openly as the US but those beliefs are still there even if they're not as apparent.

 

[wilsonda]

Easily the single most intelligent thing I've read since the election.

 

[Infinite]

Nothing wrong with calling out clearly racist behaviour as racist. But maybe ease up when it comes to these "micro aggressions" and stuff? That's the kind of thing that has led to this SJW backlash. The left has done itself no favours whatsoever with overly strident and entitled behaviour over the smallest things. And it's clearly already led to some significant losses. It also has the whiff of hypocrisy because some of these people doing the policing are the meanest, angriest, most anti-social people around.

Please explain. Do please

Actually this is connected to the problem I mentioned in my post. People don't want to see the nuances of racism and even when you change the language a bit (like saying microagression or racially insensitive) people are still going to act as if you called a klan member. It's like you cant fucking win at all

 

[Enzom21]

Who said I wasn't or wouldn't?

Are you? Because there's a whole lot of minorities should do this or that going on here.

Another thing that kind of bothers me - aren't I black? I'm not sick of having those sorts of conversations and I'm willing to. A lot of other minorities in this thread and on GAF are too - take a second and consider that not all minorities feel the same way you do about it

Good for you? I am tired of having to hand hold white people so they stop being racists, they're coddled enough.

I know you were answering to him, but please be aware that there are white people fighting against racism.

I myself am getting into debates with my fucking family about these issues, it's breaking my heart that some of my relatives have this POV.

Seriously, this whole shit is ruining my everyday positive attitude lately.

That's great, that's what should be happening. The problem is white people telling minorities to do it, to coddle white people so their feelings aren't hurt.
There has been a shitload of that since Trump's election.
Quite frankly, I don't want to hear from some white guy about what I should be doing to make some old white lady that waves at me feel better about her shit vote.

 

[Vermillion]

The article is wrong. Blacks would be likely worse off had they taken this approach. The oppressed don't have to figure out ways to coddle racists. They need to take a risk and try to force the issue if they want a better life by calling it like they see it.

Though I understand what you are getting at, the article isn't talking about protesting or fighting back against damaging policies. It's talking about communicating with one another.

When has attacking someone in communication worked out for the best?

 

[CopperPuppy]

Imagine, for example, a white man who lost a factory job due to globalization and saw his sister die from a drug overdose due to the opioid painkiller and heroin epidemic — situations that aren’t uncommon today. He tries to complain about his circumstances. But his concerns are downplayed by a politician or racial justice activist, who instead points out that at least he’s doing better than black and brown folks if you look at broad socioeconomic measures.

Is this article trying to say that this hypothetical man's concerns are being literally and directly downplayed by a hypothetical politician or racial justice activist? Because that is ridiculous. I mean, someone please fill me in if poor white working class citizens are coming to their representatives for help and are directly being told, "Too bad, suck it up, others have it worse." Because that's what's being said here.

My guess is that this excerpt is referring to the notion that rural white communities are suffering from things like poverty and drug addiction and are unhappy that solutions aren't immediately forthcoming while social issues and similar economic issues in minority communities are being openly discussed by politicians as well. Because, and let's be clear, when poverty and drug addiction were sweeping urban minority communities, the biggest and loudest response was a cry for personal responsibility and the passage of laws disproportionately throwing these individuals in jail. Now that opioids are sweeping through predominately white rural communities, other solutions are suddenly on the table. Don't take me wrong: I'm happy that the right solutions are now being discussed, but it should have been discussed a long time ago when minority communities were suffering without a voice. So to claim that this problem is being ignored is nonsense when, in actuality, those in power have just started paying attention to it because of the nature of the communities involved.

So I'm going to have to push back at the notion that the white working class is being ignored by "politicians and racial justice activists" in favor of minorities. The reality as told to this country by the results of the election is that the white working class is realizing that poverty and drug abuse are not exclusive problems to their communities and are wondering why their needs aren't being prioritized over the needs of communities who have been suffering from these problems without help for decades.

 

[spock]

I'm supposed to have a "personal discussion" with a person that spat on my mother and called her a monkey nigger?

Fuck a personal discussion. There's nothing to discuss on a personal level. The problem is when government enables and empowers these bigots. That's what people are worried and upset about.

Activism only works when the government can be brought to the table. And it's ALWAYS kicking and screaming. Never "Well, you made a well articulated and completely reasoned argument, let's change!" it's "Fuck, these niggers are making us look bad on the tv by getting beat and waterhosed....dammit".

And to be blunt we BEEN having conversations for over a century. Certain portions of the population plugged their fingers in their ears and some of their decedents continue to do so.

Someone at that level should get a swift kick for sure, but its the huge amount of situational and diet racists worth engaging if and when you can. Most people with some racial tendencies are not at the kkk type level.

 

[Zeuanimals]

You don't have to do anything, provided you are fine with the way things are.

The disenfranchised whites who hold ignorant and racist worldviews want things to stay the same. We want them to change. Unfortunately, that makes this our problem.

If they're disenfranchised, why would they want things to stay the same?

 

[Croatoan]

Why are the victims of racism constantly told they're handling it wrong? Stop.

I would argue that it isn't the victims of racism that are doing anything wrong, but the whites trying to help minorities that are "doing it wrong".

In, my experience it is white people screaming racist at other whites that is the problem.

Maybe look at it in that light.

 

[FinalStageBoss]

Damn.

Anyways, I'm not here to coddle racists.

We've been here - explaining until we're blue in the face that our humanity is equal and something to be respected.

If calling you out on your bullshit makes you double down on said bullshit, that is a deficiency in you - not the observer.

Y'all in such a hurry to forgive yourselves after this election. Nope. No handwaving today.

.

 

[Slayven]

This reminds me of how a lot of colleges that have a policy where a sexual assault victim has to meet with their attacker, cause of reasons. Not the same, but it is interesting how similar tactics are used against victims.

 

[Beefy]

Damn.

Anyways, I'm not here to coddle racists.

We've been here - explaining until we're blue in the face that our humanity is equal and something to be respected.

If calling you out on your bullshit makes you double down on said bullshit, that is a deficiency in you - not the observer.

Y'all in such a hurry to forgive yourselves after this election. Nope. No handwaving today.

Yep

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Is this article trying to say that this hypothetical man's concerns are being literally and directly downplayed by a hypothetical politician or racial justice activist? Because that is ridiculous. I mean, someone please fill me in if poor white working class citizens are coming to their representatives for help and are directly being told, "Too bad, suck it up, others have it worse." Because that's what's being said here.

My guess is that this excerpt is referring to the notion that rural white communities are suffering from things like poverty and drug addiction and are unhappy that solutions aren't immediately forthcoming while social issues and similar economic issues in minority communities are being openly discussed by politicians as well. Because, and let's be clear, when poverty and drug addiction were sweeping urban minority communities, the biggest and loudest response was a cry for personal responsibility and the passage of laws disproportionately throwing these individuals in jail. Now that opioids are sweeping through predominately white rural communities, other solutions are suddenly on the table. Don't take me wrong: I'm happy that the right solutions are now being discussed, but it should have been discussed a long time ago when minority communities were suffering without a voice. So to claim that this problem is being ignored is nonsense when, in actuality, those in power have just started paying attention to it because of the nature of the communities involved.

So I'm going to have to push back at the notion that the white working class is being ignored by "politicians and racial justice activists" in favor of minorities. The reality as told to this country by the results of the election is that the white working class is realizing that poverty and drug abuse are not exclusive problems to their community and are wondering why their needs aren't being prioritized over the needs of communities who have been suffering from these problems without help for decades.

Fucking well said, man. Thank you.

 

[Altairre]

Nothing wrong with calling out clearly racist behaviour as racist. But maybe ease up when it comes to these "micro aggressions" and stuff? That's the kind of thing that has led to this SJW backlash. The left has done itself no favours whatsoever with overly strident and entitled behaviour over the smallest things. And it's clearly already led to some significant losses. It also has the whiff of hypocrisy because some of these people doing the policing are the meanest, angriest, most anti-social people around.

You say this yet you provide no examples of this "entitled behaviour over the smallest things". And I would call the issues I have with Trump, his campaign and the current political climate many things but small is not one of them.

 

[Darryl M R]

Is this article trying to say that this hypothetical man's concerns are being literally and directly downplayed by a hypothetical politician or racial justice activist? Because that is ridiculous. I mean, someone please fill me in if poor white working class citizens are coming to their representatives for help and are directly being told, "Too bad, suck it up, others have it worse." Because that's what's being said here.

My guess is that this excerpt is referring to the notion that rural white communities are suffering from things like poverty and drug addiction and are unhappy that solutions aren't immediately forthcoming while social issues and similar economic issues in minority communities are being openly discussed by politicians as well. Because, and let's be clear, when poverty and drug addiction were sweeping urban minority communities, the biggest and loudest response was a cry for personal responsibility and the passage of laws disproportionately throwing these individuals in jail. Now that opioids are sweeping through predominately white rural communities, other solutions are suddenly on the table. Don't take me wrong: I'm happy that the right solutions are now being discussed, but it should have been discussed a long time ago when minority communities were suffering without a voice. So to claim that this problem is being ignored is nonsense when, in actuality, those in power have just started paying attention to it because of the nature of the communities involved.

So I'm going to have to push back at the notion that the white working class is being ignored by "politicians and racial justice activists" in favor of minorities. The reality as told to this country by the results of the election is that the white working class is realizing that poverty and drug abuse are not exclusive problems to their community and are wondering why their needs aren't being prioritized over the needs of communities who have been suffering from these problems without help for decades.

Amazing post.
Nothing to add to it just going to share my thought below.

These rural whites really like to pretend that their plights are extremely unique and not understood by others, yet minorities lived through drugs tearing down their communities and lack of job opportunities.

 

[UncleSporky]

Are you seriously trying to equate this one study with something way better studied and understood like climate change?

And no, this study wasn't about race, it was about transgender discrimination. They're two pretty different things. Vox used it as a jumping off point, which is fine, but don't act like this is "hard science" in the same way that studies on climate change are.

Exactly. When data doesn't paint a picture you like to see, then the primary goal is to find something wrong with the data. It's not as well understood as climate change, it's not a well-funded, broad research project, it's not hard science. Anecdotes do prove it wrong. Therefore it can be dismissed.

 

[Guileless]

Man it's so disheartening seeing this article bring up very valid points about people who may or may not be racist and a portion of GAF going "FUCK YOUR FEELINGS, RACIST".

I've come around to it. If you prefer Republican policies, the less class solidarity among downscale voters, the better.

The world will change with or without these people so if we stay strong they can change their way of thinking or fuck off. I don't believe in coddling. All it does is weaken our message.

 

[EatinOlives]

Let's just say this. Assume that Trump was super chummy with everything south of the border. Talked super nicely about illegal and legal immigrants, praised the trade deals the US has had with Mexico, pledged to fast-track DREAM-like acts, taco trucks in every corner, basically told everything every hispanic wants to hear.

I still wouldn't vote for the asshole, because of what he did and said about Muslims, the disabled, women, protesters, and black people. Just because he effectively panders to my particular corner of the woods does not mean I then have a carte blanche to say "yo this guy sounds rad, fuck everyone else he has trashed". And I don't need to be told, much less convinced, that people who did do this are perfectly fine and not to blame.

Exactly. When data doesn't paint a picture you like to see, then the primary goal is to find something wrong with the data. It's not as well understood as climate change, it's not a well-funded, broad research project, it's not hard science. Anecdotes do prove it wrong. Therefore it can be dismissed.

Wut. There's nothing wrong with the data. There isn't anything particularly wrong with the study. There's nothing wrong with Vox using it as a jumping off point.

There's definitely something wrong with people pretending like this is irrefutable fact and that people who in turn disagree with the discussion that Vox has started are "anti-science" or "anti-facts". That's pretty intellectually dishonest.

 

[captainnapalm]

Please explain. Do please

Here's an article on it:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/09/the-rise-of-victimhood-culture/404794/