Buying a 4K TV for PS4K thread!
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Marty Chinn
Member
We are in this transition period where every company is doing different things. We are now moving to where HDR is going to be decent and common on almost every TV moving forward. Next year should be the first big push towards that. It's why I highly recommend people waiting if you want something cheap. Soon decent HDR will be the norm like a TV having Netflix built in.
What the other manufacturers are doing is shitty. Like Samsung in this case calls it Premium HDR. I know it's marketing but that's such a deceiving description for it. I don't doubt it's because of the term UHD Premium starting to become a standard term. There's nothing premium about that HDR implementation.
Goose_Se7en
Banned
So much this. I've been following various threads on Gaf and folks just refuse to do their research for whatever reason. Right around the time that the Pro was officially unveiled I knew that I wanted a 4K set in the next 12-18 months and just started doing my "homework".
I posted this before but quick shoutout to Geoffrey Morrison and David Katzmaier from CNET. I've read countless articles by both (Morrison especially) and it's really has been an education in television. Reading on input lag, difference between edge lit LEDs, full array local dimming, difference between input lag and response time which aren't the same. And even now I still have plenty to learn.
The competing HDR standards such as HDR10 and the proprietary Dolby Vision. Lots and lots of reading that informed me on the tv that I was willing to get with the budget I had.
I know the thread is to help each other out, and some folks (Aztechnology comes to mind) have been extremely helpful. But when I see post like "is this -insert random model here- any good? Do a bit of homework folks.
The 4G of the TV world.
The blame lies squarely on Samsung and LG. 8K was originally called Super Hi-Vision and Super UHD but then last year Samsung started calling their tv's SUHD televisions with the S unofficially meaning Super UHD. LG adopted then adopted this moniker and officially called their 8k and 4k line Super UHD. Now you have all kinds of gimmick naming. Japan called HDTV or HD, Hi-Vision. Which is why Sharp and NHK wanted to have Super Hi-Vision for 8K. Now we'll have something else for 8K altogether when the time comes.
Where's capcom when you need them. Super-Hi Ultra-Turbo Vision.
DreadfulOmen
Member
i dont mind helping out, but when i see the same questions on the same page with the answer a few post up, i just stopped replying.
I am kinda lucky though, my dad is a big tech head is is all about PQ and AQ, so i've learned a lot from him. He bought his first plasma when dvds still only had 4:3 aspect ratios.
DreadfulOmen
Member
Better viewing angle, but really bad contrast.
I'd argue that the x800d really isn't a much better option than the 6300 or h8c, as even the va panel 43x800d does not have a very good contrast ratio and it really does not get very bright for an hdr set. The ips x800d seems like something to avoid altogether vs a 6300 or h8c.
Sure the Samsung does not have a wcg, but the hisense does 80-86% of dci p3, which really isn't bad when a vizio p series does like 82-90%, most people cannot even see a 5% difference.
Black levels, contrast, and brightness are just as important as wcg for hdr and the Sony really isn't that great on those fronts, especially the ips.
Those saying the 6300 or h8c are a waste, not everyone can afford $1000 tvs, and by rtings own admission the hisense gets very close to some of the higher end sets in terms of pq. $500 sets will get you pretty damn close to the quality of a $1000 set.
I would honestly probably get a vizio p series over a ks8000 as well as it doesn't have dolby vision. If you're spending that kind of dough I would want to have both standards supported.
Any hdr set you buy right now I'll be eclipsed by something else within 2 years. That's honestly part of why a budget set makes a lot of sense right now because there is an hdr format war right now and hdr12 is probably around the corner.
I have a hisense h8c and the hdr implementation is dramatic, it has excellent pq, black levels, contrast, and local dimming, and it was $500 for 55 inches. I don't think it was a bad way to go. I went with it over the Samsung 6300 because it has better colors than the Samsung and has 2 hdr 4k inputs vs one on the 6300, and picked it over the x800d because the 49 is an ips panel with poor black levels and contrast.
^ Weren't you just saying though you were possibly wanting to return the Hisense and pick up the X800D to see how it looks?
I have no dog in any fight. I used to own a Zenith CRT, then a Panasonic CRT, then a Samsung Rear Projection, then a Toshiba LCD, then a Samsung LCD, then a Panasonic plasma, now a Sony LED and Samsung LED. I am not beholden to brands. I bought the X800D because I needed less than 48" for my bedroom and they don't really make anything asides from 40" to 43" and by a lot of metrics, the X800D is the superior overall television to the 6300 at that size. Slightly higher input lag and slightly worse blacks but a much better operating system, wide color gamut ie. Sony triluminous display, upscaling, great motion handling for a 60 hz. Have yet to see any judder or blur.
The KS8000, for the price and specs is unbeatable. As a gaming forum, it does 22 ms input lag for 4K and HDR. It does HDR10 with full require nits of brightness. All inputs are HDR enabled. I am extremely lucky I was able to get in the EPP program or I was going to have to wait until next year for a set for the living room.
Whether people choose to heed my opinion or advice is upto them. At the end of the day it is your money. I don't get anything if you buy a Hisense, an LG, a Sharp, a Samsung, a Sony etc. I know the feeling of regret and disappointment and so if I can assuade some fears, or provide some insight before a purchase even better. Keep in mind, every single Sony set once they have gotten a substantial firmware upgrade, has almost halved their starting input lag. Imagine once the X800D get its first substantial firmware upgrade if they make the input lag lower?
I have no dog in any fight. I used to own a Zenith CRT, then a Panasonic CRT, then a Samsung Rear Projection, then a Toshiba LCD, then a Samsung LCD, then a Panasonic plasma, now a Sony LED and Samsung LED. I am not beholden to brands. I bought the X800D because I needed less than 48" for my bedroom and they don't really make anything asides from 40" to 43" and by a lot of metrics, the X800D is the superior overall television to the 6300 at that size. Slightly higher input lag and slightly worse blacks but a much better operating system, wide color gamut ie. Sony triluminous display, upscaling, great motion handling for a 60 hz. Have yet to see any judder or blur.
The KS8000, for the price and specs is unbeatable. As a gaming forum, it does 22 ms input lag for 4K and HDR. It does HDR10 with full require nits of brightness. All inputs are HDR enabled. I am extremely lucky I was able to get in the EPP program or I was going to have to wait until next year for a set for the living room.
Whether people choose to heed my opinion or advice is upto them. At the end of the day it is your money. I don't get anything if you buy a Hisense, an LG, a Sharp, a Samsung, a Sony etc. I know the feeling of regret and disappointment and so if I can assuade some fears, or provide some insight before a purchase even better. Keep in mind, every single Sony set once they have gotten a substantial firmware upgrade, has almost halved their starting input lag. Imagine once the X800D get its first substantial firmware upgrade if they make the input lag lower?
the_batman
Banned
edit: wrong thread..
Yes, I'm curious if the wider color gamut if the sony I will be able to notice or not vs the h8c, but reports of the blacks being pretty bad on the 49 ips sony has steered me away from that direction. Now I've decided if I were to return the hisense it would have to be something with both dv and hdr10, so most likely I am keeping the h8c. I am very happy with it but I have some degree of fomo with it because of the not quite as wide dci p3 coverage and no dolby vision.
graywolf323
Gold Member
so my 55" KS8000 should be delivered this morning, how do I tell which panel I got? I'm hoping for the AU Optronics one since that seems to be the best?
GalacticMouse
Member
The box has a sticker on the side that says Model: AA01 or FA01. I believe FA01 is the Samsung panel.
I'm in kind of a unique situation where I have two of these in my house (price was unbeatable and my main tv broke after I bought the first KS8500 for my gaming room and sold the one it replaced, so I was in the market for a second) and each one is a different panel.
My FA01 panel has a little more flash lighting than the AA01, but it's really only noticeable at crazy viewing angles or when the room is dark and the image is very dark. 90% of the time you don't see it.
The AA01 panel is much less noticeable, but it's also in a much brighter room. I still don't notice any flash lighting on it late at night, however, so it seems to be handling it better overall.
Other than the slight differences in backlight bleed, I haven't noticed any differences in the two models.
graywolf323
Gold Member
I was going off this article
http://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/panel-lottery-samsung
still hoping I get the AA01
I finally have my 4k tv up and running. 8 days later than I should have.
Hallelujah.
could you measure the box for me? Wondering whether it'll fit in the car boot - mine is in at Richer Sounds but probably can't pick up until Saturday
Edit; got it - 143cm x 88cm
nowheretorun
Member
So 2 differing points of view that's for sure.
I've looked at the Hisense 55m7000 and seen it @ £799 in UK.
I posted the following in the other thread;
edit:
Originally Posted by ZOONAMI
Based on reports of the 49 Sony having gray blacks and a bad contrast ratio, and it's relatively unimpressive nits rating, I'd go with a 55h8c hands down. If you are looking for a smaller tv, id go with the 43 Sony.
The Hisense has amazing pq, blacks, contrast, and colors looks great for rec 709 content and it has 80-86 % of dci p3 for hdr content. Hdr games and movies look great. It also has local dimming so black bars look like the screen isn't even on. The 55 inch is a steal.
Are you in the UK/EU?
I believe Hisense has an m7000 there that is actually a bit higher end than the h8c but his still very affordable.
Any idea of what the Input Lag is?
Also, this local dimming - does it mean you constantly see a dimming and lighting when going from light to dark scenes or light elements within a dark scene? I used to own a Samsung and a Sony a while ago and they drove me mad when I was playing Bioshock
Also what bit panel is it? 8bit or 10bit?
And last one lol! - What Nits is it?
And to add now I've read more is the Hisense HDR10 and what is dci p3?
edit:
just reading the rtings review on the h8c
DirtyLarry
Member
Is there a general time of year TV manufacturers release their new products or is it just a matter of they release them when ready?
I do not follow technology news related to TV's so apologies if that is an obvious question. I am thinking myself I recall people saying around the Super Bowl, but perhaps that is just the best time to purchase, not necessarily when new products get released.
The reason I ask is it appears to me with all of the different feedback and reviews on different HDR sets right now and with the technology itself still having different implementations and standards across companies, that although one will always find themselves in a perpetual state of waiting if they play that game with technology, this may in fact be a time where it pays to wait is indeed a prudent choice.
Again, I know one should not play the waiting game with technology as you will always be playing it, but I really feel this is one time to make the exception. I just would like to get an idea of how long I may be waiting is all.
I do not follow technology news related to TV's so apologies if that is an obvious question. I am thinking myself I recall people saying around the Super Bowl, but perhaps that is just the best time to purchase, not necessarily when new products get released.
The reason I ask is it appears to me with all of the different feedback and reviews on different HDR sets right now and with the technology itself still having different implementations and standards across companies, that although one will always find themselves in a perpetual state of waiting if they play that game with technology, this may in fact be a time where it pays to wait is indeed a prudent choice.
Again, I know one should not play the waiting game with technology as you will always be playing it, but I really feel this is one time to make the exception. I just would like to get an idea of how long I may be waiting is all.
Sneak peeks at CES in January but not necessarily the full range, and unlikely to go into detail like input lag. Start to hit the streets around march but often spread out over a few months. Prices will start dropping around September and hit peak discount around now, when people will start telling you to wait for *next* years CES
Ahh ok. Yeah got it in the back of my Octavia with room to spare with the back seats down.
Here is a review on the m7000. By most accounts superior to the h8c.
It does not have local dimming, but I don't really think that's a huge negative. The h8c does not have a lot of zones, so some people say they notice the zones turning on and off. I have not noticed that personally though. The h8c does around 440 nits iirc.
The m7000 is a bit higher end than the h8c in build quality and color gamut.
http://www.trustedreviews.com/hisense-h65m7000-review
Katana_Strikes
Member
Looked up my current input lag on my Samsung LE40C750 I got 6 years ago. Apparently in Game Mode (which I don't think I ever activated eek) is 41ms whilst the standard is 103ms lol.
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
How long does it take Samsung to actually ship the order?
It's been a day but still says "preparing order for shipment"
It's been a day but still says "preparing order for shipment"
Which one did you go for?
65ks8000 I believe.
Okay here's my dilemma: I need a TV that is at most 43"; because it's replacing a 32" bedroom TV and there simply isn't the space to go with a bigger screen. Believe me, if I could fit a 49" TV in there I'd have probably bought a KS7000 (US 8000) by now. It's just not practical without a whole room remodel.
My worry is that there seem to be very few 4K TVs under 49" even now, and screen sizes only seem to be getting bigger. If I wait until all this HDR stuff is ironed out and mainstream in a year or two, but the minimum TV size by then is 49" or higher, then I'm out of luck.
I was looking at the Sony KD-43XD8088 (US model XBR43X800D), I went to view it in John Lewis today and it looked very good. It supports HDR10 and has a wide colour gamut. Low input lag and seemingly many happy owners on GAF and elsewhere. Seems the best "midrange / budget" 4K TV under 49".
It seems one of the few drawbacks, perhaps the main one, is according to Rtings it only gets to 375 cd/m2 brightness, out of the 1000 needed for "proper" HDR10 as I understand it. This seems it'd limit HDR in the future but right now the only TVs that seem to hit the 1000 level are the Samsung KS series. Not even the LG OLEDs manage it. Is this a huge deal? It seems the only significant drawback to the screen from what I can gather after reading various reviews and forum posts about it.
I guess my question is, do I go for this TV now, or wait a bit and hope that "small" 43" screens aren't phased out by the time Ultra HD Premium is mainstream?
My worry is that there seem to be very few 4K TVs under 49" even now, and screen sizes only seem to be getting bigger. If I wait until all this HDR stuff is ironed out and mainstream in a year or two, but the minimum TV size by then is 49" or higher, then I'm out of luck.
I was looking at the Sony KD-43XD8088 (US model XBR43X800D), I went to view it in John Lewis today and it looked very good. It supports HDR10 and has a wide colour gamut. Low input lag and seemingly many happy owners on GAF and elsewhere. Seems the best "midrange / budget" 4K TV under 49".
It seems one of the few drawbacks, perhaps the main one, is according to Rtings it only gets to 375 cd/m2 brightness, out of the 1000 needed for "proper" HDR10 as I understand it. This seems it'd limit HDR in the future but right now the only TVs that seem to hit the 1000 level are the Samsung KS series. Not even the LG OLEDs manage it. Is this a huge deal? It seems the only significant drawback to the screen from what I can gather after reading various reviews and forum posts about it.
I guess my question is, do I go for this TV now, or wait a bit and hope that "small" 43" screens aren't phased out by the time Ultra HD Premium is mainstream?
Samsung UN49KS8000 49-Inch 4K Ultra HD Smart LED TV (2016 Model) @ 897.99 vs. Sony XBR49X800D 49-Inch 4K Ultra HD TV (2016 Model) @ 648.99
Which is the victor?
Which is the victor?
Go for it. The 43" is a VA panel so better contrast. It won't go super bright but then some others drop brightness on larger areas in HDR. (OLEDs onkybhave to hit 500 nits to qualify due to better contrast)
graywolf323
Gold Member
Price vs performance - which is more important to you? Samsung generally reviews better but it's $250 more. Personally I'd go for that one if you can afford it
noomi
Member
I had no idea about this panel lottery until I read a post a few up from here..... going to check when I get home 
gogogogo!
If you got the ks8000 series you're in for a real treat
It's really amazing.
gogogogo!
If you got the ks8000 series you're in for a real treat
It's really amazing.
TetraGenesis
Member
So jealous. I've got another week. 14 days I will have waited.
Get in on that EPP business somehow and get the KS8000 for $650. There's your winner.
EPP Business...?
Edit: Ah, its an employee savings thing. Sadly, GameStop isn't in on that. =/
Keep in mind that the KS series will hit the HDR light output requirements by blowing things out with the back-light. This will elevate the black levels, cause halos if there is a mix of light/dark content on screen, and effectively limit the contrast. OLED doesn't have to contend with this, so though the peaks aren't as high the black level doesn't become more gray when it peaks for HDR. So despite not hitting the same peaks, by keeping blacks black, the effective contrast is solid. Alternatively, a locally dimming LED LCD can be more precise with the backlight and avoid some of this, but then you have extra complexity with the FALD algorithm.
I've reworded this a couple times so I hope it's clear. It doesn't mean this is bad, just that there is no perfect display technology so you have to decide which strengths you need, and which weaknesses you can live with.
TetraGenesis
Member
You likely have a friend who works at one of these companies. We're talking a ton of major companies are in on this.
I'll ask on Social Media if any friends can help me out.
If any GAF friends can help me out, that would be cool too. I'll even go to the 55" if I can save some money. T-T
In the meantime, I'll aim for the Samsung if I can.
SuperEpicMan
Banned
I was under the impression it is mostly just a slightly different cosmetic design. The person I spoke to today also said it has a slightly newer processor, but realistically the panels should be virtually identical.
9000s has better motion handling, more dimming zones for better blacks during those bright scenes, slightly better input lag by like .5 of a second LOL, motheye screen to keep reflections as low as possible, slightly better processor so that it can handle the menu's and apps faster, and a few other little differences.
I got the 9500, and love it. My friend got the KS8000 just a week ago and I went to set it up for him. Image wise, both look basically the same. Wouldn't be able to tell any difference without a direct side/side. But, the 1 thing I did notice, was the speed of the menus and apps. The 9 series is faster for sure.
To each their own, but the 9 series, IMO is worth the extra money.
Ah that makes more sense now regarding OLED, cheers! Definitely leaning towards the 43" Sony, although the brightness isn't hugely impressive at first glance I still think it'll be a fairly big upgrade from my current 6 year old 32" 1080p set, and at the nice price means if things really do pick up improvement wise within 2-3 years I won't feel as bad about replacing it as I would if I'd spent ~50% more.
Thanks, that was clear and lines up with my experience viewing the Samsung. The brightness was really impressive but the Sony next to it still looked great detail wise. It's very true that right now there's seemingly no perfect choice tech wise. I could wait, but TVs are the kind of product I could wait, and wait, and wait, because "something better will be out in 6 months" but that will seemingly be true constantly, so I might as well jump in now while the price is good.
Hopefully the lower brightness on the Sony won't be a huge deal for a good while yet, as I said above I'm hoping it's still a considerable upgrade over my previous set, moving from 32" 1080p to 43" 4K HDR.
Aztechnology
Member
Take some pictures!
Goose_Se7en
Banned
My tv shipped (Samsung EPP)
This be me
This be me
I got my shipping confirm the night before it showed up. I ordered on a Wednesday night around 11 ET and it showed up on Saturday. FedEx said it was delivering next business day, but dropped off on Saturday.
family_guy
Member
My tv shipped (Samsung EPP)
This be me
Just hope the panel lottery doesn't change your mood.
Does the 65" has this panel lottery?
Every flat panel has a lottery as far as I'm concerned.
family_guy
Member
They all do. I returned two to finally get a good one. That's why I wouldn't bother with online shopping unless it's from Amazon.
MastAndo
Member
I'm all for saving a few bucks, but I would have to agree with this. If it's an online retailer, make sure they won't make your life difficult when it comes to returning a big, expensive item like a TV.
I've currently got one broken 55KS8000 boxed up, sitting in my apartment waiting for FedEx to pick up and return to Samsung, another in transit back to Samsung after I refused delivery since they shipped it despite my order cancellation, and a fully functioning set from PC Richard. I paid the full $1000 for it from PC Richard, whereas the others were EPP price. but they brought it to my place the next day after ordering and would have taken it off my hands right there if it was broken. This peace of mind of avoiding hassles goes a long way. I'm still dealing with Samsung, making sure I get the charges on my card for two TV's refunded.