The Guardian: Street Fighter V: victory and diversity in the eSports world final
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The Lone Dragon
Member
Oh look at that.
A positive SF5 thread that no one wants to participate in.
Shocking!
By the way, according to the article:
Actually. ~140,000 people tuned in:
I took the screencap while sitting in the audience, because I knew people would try to downplay the viewership of Capcom Cup.
A positive SF5 thread that no one wants to participate in.
Shocking!
By the way, according to the article:
Actually. ~140,000 people tuned in:
I took the screencap while sitting in the audience, because I knew people would try to downplay the viewership of Capcom Cup.
Domt pull that shit.Oh look at that.
A positive SF5 thread that no one wants to participate in.
Shocking!
By the way, according to the article:
Actually. ~140,000 people tuned in:
I took the screencap while sitting in the audience, because I knew people would try to downplay the viewership of Capcom Cup.
You want more to post positive articles, hit the make new thread button. I post threads because I think the articles are interesting and want to share. Get off your high horse and contribute if you think things need to improve.
Interesting part about the whole age thing. I've heard interviews with professional Starcraft and Dota players mentioning physically feeling like they can't keep up once they're in their late 20s. Meanwhile, many of the FGC's heaviest hitters are well into their 30s.
I don't know enough about starcraft to comment, but I would definitely say fighters are more demanding in terms of execution/reaction times than Dota, which makes it all the more perplexing to me.
I don't know enough about starcraft to comment, but I would definitely say fighters are more demanding in terms of execution/reaction times than Dota, which makes it all the more perplexing to me.
Free to play PC games that'll run on toasters and you have other people to blame if you lose. Also hats.
Also Riot and Valve sinking tons of money into the esports scene and cultivating a spectator culture (the front pages of the games' clients are basically ads for watching pro matches) while FGC was pretty grassroots and still is.
Because more people play those games.
Also they don't make a big enough deal of America winning Capcom Cup. And not only did America win it but it was an all American Grand Finals.
The rest of the world has to HOLD DAT L!!!!
Scrub Mcgrubb
Member
So still no word how much the pool for next years CPT is going to be? Can't help but feel their silence means Sony isn't writing them a check this year....
RecRoulette
Member
I wonder how the ESPN rebroadcast did. Granted this time it was only an hour and a good number of folks were only watching for Marvel information, but still.
I hope they increase it to 1 million next year. I'm thinking there're reworking how everything works again to not have a repeat of this year's shortcoming especially with all the dropouts last minute.
I think it was around 87k which ESPN said they were happy with.
Which might explain why people play those games, but not why they watch. MOBAs are boring as dirt to spectate and impossible to understand unless you're deep in the game already. Meanwhile, Fighting Games, especially more traditional ones like Street Fighter can be understood at a glance.
Not to mention the time investment. A single League game averages Half an Hour, while a standard best 2/3 tournament match for most fighters lasts 10 minutes tops.
Come back when America can win an SF game at EVO despite making up 90% of the entrants.
People like to watch games they like to play, at least when it comes to video games. Fighting games have a massive barrier to entry to the casual player.
Imperfected
Member
Street Fighter went into a repetitive cycle of appealing more and more to a core audience of die-hard players, to the point where the game being played at a professional level and the game being played at a casual level were almost unrecognizably different. Your average person can never actually play Third Strike, not the way a Daigo does, and they can't even play a remotely similar version of the game without many hours of literal practice--not playing, but training-style practice--and healthy pool of competitors... and for that second point, keep in mind that solid online play hasn't been around in fighters for very long (and many still release with mediocre netplay).
By contrast, League of Legends took a game most people could already more or less play (DOTA) and made it a game almost anyone can play in a way that's roughly similar to the way professional players do.
Think of it as the difference between tennis and football. I can "play" tennis with a friend of mine and have a tennis-like experience, but we aren't playing the same game the Williams sisters play. On the other hand, I can get together with a bunch of coworkers and kick a few goals and while it won't be anywhere near on the same level as a World Cup event, at least it more or less looks like we're playing the same game.
UcchedavÄda
Member
That's a pretty good article. It'll be interesting to see how long a career in SF (and other fighting games) can actually be. There are a lot of people, Ricki included, that I hope to be able to watch in many more tournaments in the future.
Somewhat related, but does anyone know how much the top 8 took home in the end? I only saw numbers (that included the CPT DLC bonus) for Du. Or was it only the winner who got that bonus?
Somewhat related, but does anyone know how much the top 8 took home in the end? I only saw numbers (that included the CPT DLC bonus) for Du. Or was it only the winner who got that bonus?
Haha this reads as a very salty post.
Yeah, tens of millions. So even a fraction of them dropping into a tournament stream makes for big viewership numbers.
And don't ignore the developer focus on pro games. If I opened League right now I'd be bombarded with ads for spectating something or other. Street Fighter waited until SFV to do this.
ZeroTheShadow
Member
It's super fucking boring & unbalanced
The core game is some of the best Street Fighter has been, yes. Everything surrounding the core just does its best to turn you away from it. It's a shame, really. The game was so close to being brilliant, but then it was fumbled out the gate.
Baby steps man. First we started winning Premiere events and now we won Capcom Cup.
Team sports are more popular than head to head.
Is this a worldwide consensus about the game :O ?
The big one is that it launched REALLY barebones, without a character-by-character guide or a traditional Arcade mode. My personal criticisms are that the game takes several steps back in small quality of life elements and that the character tutorial they added is the worst in the genre by a wide margin. Every other fighting game released in 2016 does a better job explaining their mechanics and characters and they're all significantly more complicated than SFV.
From what I can understand... Yomi (reading opponent and making educated adaptations) is more important than pure reaction time for fighters compared to MOBAs. Starcraft wasn't that bad either because old farts like Nestea lasted quite a while.
no, lol
Having played all three games, though nowhere near pro level, Starcraft II is the most demanding game in terms of reaction time and complexity of actions. Nothing else comes remotely close. Dota 2 is more demanding in pure reaction than any fighting game due to the speed at which these games operate and the wide range of input. In a fighting game, you use at most six buttons to attack and move your character fixed values in usually just three directions. The possiblity of inputs in Dota 2 is far greater, and the minute differences can sometimes be the difference between success and failure.
I don't think there's any truth to this assumption. I showed my girlfriend the last SFV tournament, and it was complete nonsense to her. The core values of both Street Fighter V and Dota 2 can be explained in a few sentences, but they're both still boring as shit to watch unless you know the nuance, and usually the players involved. Both take about the same level of investment.
Actually, time makes it much more interesting. The best thing about the Capcom Cup was making it three out of five. It allowed space for dramatic comebacks and close calls. That's what happens in better MOBA matches. Plus team games allow for more players for people to invest some level of interest in. So you not only take in the games as team to team, but what your favored player is doing. The current Dota 2 tournament was made single elimination and has made things less interesting overall though it's less of a time investment.
nah
So the main core is great, so the other things are little details right? i dont get whats the big deal about it.
Barkley's Justice
Member
Sorry but whoooo caaaaares...I don't!
I don't care about pro players. I don't care about pro tournaments. I just want to enjoy the game I paid $60 for and the $30 or whatever season pass I coughed up a year ago. And I simply have not enjoyed my experience with the game whatsoever.
I think Capcom pandering to the tournament scene has contributed to this game's lukewarm reception. I understand that's a very import crowd to cater to, but not at the expense of the "casual" player.
And I'm wrapping "casual" in parenthesis but I am anything but. I have been playing Street Fighter since it debut in the arcades and it's by far my favorite franchise. I have bought so many copies of the game over 2+ decades, it would be a fool's errand to even recount them here. My point being: I feel left out! Even when pro players are "on my side," expressing their frustrations with the game's release, it seemingly rings hollow. We're not the same. We have different needs and wants. Pro players likely received the game for free, etc etc.
Fuck Street Fighter 5.
I don't care about pro players. I don't care about pro tournaments. I just want to enjoy the game I paid $60 for and the $30 or whatever season pass I coughed up a year ago. And I simply have not enjoyed my experience with the game whatsoever.
I think Capcom pandering to the tournament scene has contributed to this game's lukewarm reception. I understand that's a very import crowd to cater to, but not at the expense of the "casual" player.
And I'm wrapping "casual" in parenthesis but I am anything but. I have been playing Street Fighter since it debut in the arcades and it's by far my favorite franchise. I have bought so many copies of the game over 2+ decades, it would be a fool's errand to even recount them here. My point being: I feel left out! Even when pro players are "on my side," expressing their frustrations with the game's release, it seemingly rings hollow. We're not the same. We have different needs and wants. Pro players likely received the game for free, etc etc.
Fuck Street Fighter 5.
This year had a lot of visa issues right at the end that probably have sent them back to the drawing board on scheduling for 2017.
SSFV (free for existing players to upgrade to, obv- you just include like a "SSFV char pack" at launch or something) does need to happen at this point, just because they need that rebrand.
It depends on what you come to fighting games for. Some people just like to run through single player stuff like an arcade mode or an in depth story and the game had nothing for them for the first 4 months. If you were getting into competitive play from scratch, the game does a TERRIBLE job teaching the player what they need to succeed.
Dota's tutorial had people build arcane boots on sniper. Sometimes no help is better than bad help.
All jokes aside I do think Guilty Gear has been doing a good job teaching the ropes of its game, hopefully Street Fighter takes some influence from there.
The boring part is subjective but the unbalanced part is a gross exaggeration. SFV's first version is more balanced than most first versions of 2D fighters and for SURE the most balanced first version of a SF game.
Think about first version of SF2, SF3 and vanilla SF4. SFV looks like a supremely well balanced compared to that stuff. Hell even when you compare to first versions of Marvel 3, Blazblue, GG, Skullgirls it holds up better balance wise.
A new balance patch of SFV is due, let's see how it compares to Super SF4 which was far better balanced than Vanilla.
What about the current state of the game? Singleplayer/story mode is still bad?
What other fighting game teach you all the things you need to know to succeed?
Also, to succeed against who?
Scrub Mcgrubb
Member
The Battle Designer for Street Fighter V is the EVO 2015 Guilty Gear Xrd runner up.
How is this something that goes on in your head? Almost all of those people show up knowing they have no chance of winning.
MWS Natural
Member
As a total novice to all of these games I have to disagree. I've watched major SFV tournament streams all the way through but would never sit and watch a MOBA match. Fighting games are much easier to understand for the average person.
Scrub Mcgrubb
Member
Daigo, Sako, and Haitani have seemingly proven that possible... and Alex Valle and Arturo Sanchez to a lesser extent.
The current state of the game? There's a decent story now, but still no traditional arcade mode.
You're taking a casual jab way too seriously.
Naw. People actually believe that.
Are you sure your experience level with both genres are the same though? Most people who have been playing game for years are steeped in fighting games even if they didn't play them much, while MOBA being a newer genre is more of an unknown. With someone starting from scratch, both are just as oblique. Fighting games about beating the other guy. MOBAs are about invading the enemy base. 'There's more to it than that' applies on both sides. And what makes watching a fighting game exciting if you don't know the execution layer? Seeing a spastic polygon figure getting thrown around and blasted with balls of light isn't compelling until you know the high speed chess side of things. MOBAs are the same way.
MarcoZombieCannon
Member
Don't forget that the gameplay is perfect but everything else is terrible because the launch was bad but here we are in december and that still matters
There is NOTHING perfect about anti-air jabs.
depths20XX
Member
The people participating in Capcom Cup are literally the best at the game in the world. If that isn't strong enough competition for you then I dunno what is. You sound mad.
Human Trashcan
Banned
There are differences and similarities. I do think fighting games are easier to read for obvious reasons: one screen, two characters, life bars. Done. But yeah, if you have absolutely zero experience, it's still not going to make a whole lot of sense. But I think if you've ever even TRIED to take a fighting game seriously, you'll have an appreciation of the skill involved. MOBAs I think are just incredibly uninteresting to watch, but that's me. I suspect, and I'm probably talking out of my ass, that the only reason they draw as many viewers as they do is because so many people play them. Like someone else said, if even a fraction of those people show up to watch, you've got big numbers. But if you look at sales of SFV and the amount of people who watch big tournaments, I'm pretty sure the percentage ratio of viewers compared to owners of the game is a lot higher. Of any genre, I think fighting games have the most potential as a spectator sport. They just need to get their shit together, the quality of the Capcom Cup finals was incredibly embarrassing. Awful sound quality, WAY TOO MUCH TIME between matches, too many ads, bad direction that sometimes didn't switch to the game feed at the start of a match, etc.
Revisionist history.
Vanilla SFIV was pretty balanced outside of Sagat doing too much damage. Certainly bottom tier was more viable than in SFV, where Zangief is horrible.
Super was wildly unbalanced compared to vanilla, with most of the new characters severely underpowered and many second Ultras far too good.
SFIV also had a fully functional arcade mode, far better UI, and superior stages/music right off the bat. The home version also had great extras.
Forearm Star
Member
Every
Single
Time..
It's pretty much why I've stayed out of most SFV threads. Glad there's finally something positive about the game in the news. Hopefully this doesn't get downplayed by people assuming the audience only tuned in for more Marvel news.