-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
casual players, what do you want in your fighting games?
- Thread starter Hutchie
- Start date
So like 4 weeks?
MikeBreezy92
Member
Nope, execution will always be a big part of fighters. Even in things like Rising Thunder or Smash you'll run into it. Execution is a natural wall of genre regardless of how easy it is surface level.
That would be a low blow if it wasn't, well, true. So pretty, so clunky.Players have to adapt to a new controller, not the game. Much like people have to adapt to the shitty controls of a Team Ico game.
Yeah, but still... Tap forward to dash. Hold stick to move. Analog walkspeed might be an issue, but it doesn't change that much. Some of the move commands would be in danger I could imagine. The dragon punch motion might as well officially be df, df if the game was analog only.
I would kind of like to see a hypothetical fighting game with the unholy spawn of Smash's and Xenoverse's controls. Analog for movement, four main buttons. Triggers act as modifiers to use specials and supers off the main four buttons. Analog+Button also modifies the move. That would obviously not be Street Fighter as we know it, but I don't see how that would lose much of the 2D fighter DNA. Some, yes, but not much. You'd have your footsies and your fireball wars just the same.
UpDownLeftRight
Banned
The counter system from DoA3. Sure it was a bit forgiving for the better players but for casuals like me it just worked. It wasn't so easy that you could do it on a whim each time, but it was simple enough to use it reliably and it would often result in chain counters.
I remember loving that you could get caught in this brief tennis match of counters wondering who will slip up and eat the hit. I get why they don't do it, because it's probably awful if you're great at fighting games but I'd rather just pick up the game and have some fun than put too many hours in just to be able to defend myself reliably.
I remember loving that you could get caught in this brief tennis match of counters wondering who will slip up and eat the hit. I get why they don't do it, because it's probably awful if you're great at fighting games but I'd rather just pick up the game and have some fun than put too many hours in just to be able to defend myself reliably.
Kawika
Member
I want Virtua Fighter 4 Kumite Mode in all fighting games. I want a reason to play the game beyond the Story Mode. If you never played it, it was basically an AI arcade where you would rise in the ranks. You would unlock costumes and decorations for your characters and really gave you a reason to play. The AI was so good. Sometimes you would come across a total idiot and they wouldn't know what he or she was doing and it often times felt like a real arcade seen.
Growing up in So Cal in the 90s I always was at Western Arcade playing against everyone in SF2 (and it's iterations). This campaign mode was the single closest feeling I got to playing in a real arcade since.
Fighting games take dedication and playing against other real humans can really be discouraging if you don't put the effort in to get good. I think this mode really gave you a reason to keep playing and learn strategies before trying to play against real humans.
Growing up in So Cal in the 90s I always was at Western Arcade playing against everyone in SF2 (and it's iterations). This campaign mode was the single closest feeling I got to playing in a real arcade since.
Fighting games take dedication and playing against other real humans can really be discouraging if you don't put the effort in to get good. I think this mode really gave you a reason to keep playing and learn strategies before trying to play against real humans.
I'm sorry, but can you do this in any competitive game?
I dont know why people try and make an exception for fighting games to make it so that players that barely play can compete with those that are competitive vs games like dota 2, cs go, and others. If you're casual you wont win against those actually put in the work to play competitively. This is no different than any other competitive videogame and wont change in fighting games either.
If you want to feel good about winning without putting in any work, play the CPU. Just like how those that want to play competitive FPS games casually and still win all the time play against bots.
Glitter and Gold
Banned
For me it was always art direction
but now I'm pretty dedicated to my one game so I'm not sure I can answer the question at this point
Damn lmao
but now I'm pretty dedicated to my one game so I'm not sure I can answer the question at this point
Damn lmao
I don't even understand how it would work. So playing the game regularly and learning the systems and the characters doesn't lead to being better at the game then someone who doesn't put the time in? It seems to imply that the game is totally random, or everyone else is really dumb.
It sounds like the mark of a terrible game.
Glitter and Gold
Banned
In most competitive games, progress isn't linear.
Putting X amount of time in doesn't guarantee a certain amount of results.
You have to actually learn, practice and apply. There's no shortcuts. Fighting games are very active learning experiences. You can't approach them expecting to just get wins after passively playing for a few hours.
Fighting games should strive to have the breadth of content and tutorials as this game.
I was just going to post this. KI pretty much has what you guys are asking for.
MorshuTheTrader
Neo Member
True. I guess I just mean that the barrier of entry is too much, especially when trying to perform some of the more basic moves needed to even play the game properly. At least in Smash I can perform all of the characters' moves relatively easily.
Maybe I just need to git gud lol
I think Rising Thunder was the best example of proving that argument as completely dumb. It was pretty much THE fighting game for these people. Very easy execution, with no SF motions, and limited buttons, and yet those same people still lost every match they played because they didnt put the work in to actually learn the game.
If they actually got the type of game theyre looking for it would just be a RNG.
The thing is, there are games with relatively easy execution. You have Persona 4 Arena, Mortal Kombat, pretty much all 3D fighters, among others where the barrier to entry is extremely low.(At least in terms of doing character moves) For some reason people extrapolate SF as encompassing all FG's when it's simply not true. You got a lot of choice.
Glitter and Gold
Banned
Yeah...
Unfortunately the execution conventions in fighting games are just apart of how the games are designed.
The cool thing about them is that once you do learn to think in terms of fighting games and their execution, it's pretty easy to rapidly pick up other games in the genre. Kinda like how all TPS games control fundamentally the same way.
The problem is that depending on your experience level with video games, the entrance barrier can range from difficult to insurmountable initially.
You just have to decide for yourself as an individual if it's worth pushing through. Again, there aren't any shortcuts and there's no getting rid of it really. Once you get passed it though you have access to what I believe is the most rewarding genre of video games you can spend your time with.
Crush countered D:
Some way to practice playing the game and getting good that isn't grinding against bots in training or arcade. Like, Shadow Lords in KI is great for having goofy shit while still encouraging you to get good with a variety of characters.
While we're on the topic of KI, make games that have flow like KI. In KI, the game is constantly going for BOTH players, without stopping for more than a moment. Unlike most fighting games where getting combod means you might as well put down the controller, in KI the player getting combod can actually do something about it. You're at a massive disadvantage, but it's not just "fuck you, you don't to play." That shit pisses me off to no end, and I hate SFIV for it.
While we're on the topic of KI, make games that have flow like KI. In KI, the game is constantly going for BOTH players, without stopping for more than a moment. Unlike most fighting games where getting combod means you might as well put down the controller, in KI the player getting combod can actually do something about it. You're at a massive disadvantage, but it's not just "fuck you, you don't to play." That shit pisses me off to no end, and I hate SFIV for it.
Lol yeah pretty much. The handful of fighters I've bought since my teens I've put maybe 10 hours into before I shelve them. I've been playing SFV for about three or four hours a day since I bought it. That's unheard of for me and I don't see it slowing down.
what is it about the game that you're enjoying so much?
I agree with no online. Casual players don't want to be stressed out by that. To me if you mastered that you should graduate to some different game. I would prefer the money and effort be put into better AI, different difficulty modes, layered tutorials (where new moves are put in over a sequence of battles and challenge you to master them) and a great long story mode that would drive you thru wanting to complete those tutorials and then boss battles. After that some kind of arcade mode with level challenges but based on AI not humans. The amount of money and time it takes to get that netcode and balance right is not worth it to me as a casual player. This is not just casual guys but those of us who don't have the twitch skills as we get older to stay competitive with younger folks. But I would still like to play these games . We will get wrecked and stop playing.
Professor Beef
Banned
More games have to reward fundamentals like sf3 third strike (the third iteration of sf3)
Im tired of these games only catering to hardcore nerds learning combos all day
sf3: 4th down was always my favorite version
Eppy Thatcher
God's had his chance.
There are two directions I had always hoped that fighting games would move towards back when i was crazy heavy into DOA:2 Hardcore...
1. Bushido Blade/Virtual Fighter style hyper realistic fighting. especially the bushido blade course... weapons and spacing/timing and all that goodness. Could be amazing this day and age.
2. And this came from my DOA love - I always wanted a fast, good fighting game very much like Dead or Alive but one that took the evolving stage/changing battle area idea from 3 forward and RAAAAAN with it. I'm talking destroying an office environment before throwing someone out of a window and following them into the street only to wreck/destroy cars as we tear it apart. That type of thing...
Really wish there was a new DOA for the ps4 for me to get into...
1. Bushido Blade/Virtual Fighter style hyper realistic fighting. especially the bushido blade course... weapons and spacing/timing and all that goodness. Could be amazing this day and age.
2. And this came from my DOA love - I always wanted a fast, good fighting game very much like Dead or Alive but one that took the evolving stage/changing battle area idea from 3 forward and RAAAAAN with it. I'm talking destroying an office environment before throwing someone out of a window and following them into the street only to wreck/destroy cars as we tear it apart. That type of thing...
Really wish there was a new DOA for the ps4 for me to get into...
Did you just post a MUGEN screenshot?
As for me, ArkSys package of modes in their BlazBlue games are something that I deeply enjoy. The mission mode from Gundam VS Gundam Next + is something I liked alot as well, with various secret objectives that unlocked alternative missions. Oh a a proper offline tournament mode please and thank you.
Gameplay-wise I'm not sure, I'm good enough to pull off special moves and maybe the easiest BnB in a traditional fighter but my execution is still lacking overall so maybe something NOT like BlazBlue or Guilty Gear with their ammount of subsystems? My favourite fighter this gen is KoF 14 so I don't know where that puts me.
Agree with this. There are more levels of player between casual and hardcore and I don't like to class myself as either. I've played lots of fighting games for many hours with varying levels of dedication. In any other genre I would be seen as a hardcore fan but I rarely play to any level where I'm bothering to look in detail at advanced techniques and I usually just stick with single player and am more then happy with that.
I don't like how some SFV defenders like to group me with people who can barely do a fireball and a dragon punch just because I want single player modes.
Starzonedge
Member
Fighting games would be more appealing to casuals if they had other casuals to play with. I recommend renting new fighting games during their first two weeks of release, enjoying how new and bad everyone is, and moving on to the next game. If you have no time to get better or take the game seriously, you're inevitably going to get matched up against advanced players that have been practicing the entire time, and it sucks.
Don't ruin this hot new meme
Easy to learn but difficult to master, not a ton of mechanics to figure out, excellent controls, great hit feedback, not much emphasis on long combos strings.
s_mirage
Member
It helps if the online match up/tier system is smartly designed too. I think they altered things to address this, but initially SFV's ranking system punished some losses too harshly and seemed designed to funnel most players into the bottom few ranks, rather than spreading them out more evenly. This meant that a lot of players of significantly differing skill level were in the same tiers, leading to lots of match ups where either you'd crush your opponent, or your opponent would crush you. Personally, I don't find either scenario terribly enjoyable if they're happening frequently.
KnightimeX_Legacy
Banned
I miss the days when a "combo" was a discovery that granted bonus damage.
Today combos is the only way to do decent damage in any fighter now.
It's the core element for today's game but back then it wasn't.
Sometimes I have to look at the box to make sure I was playing Marvel vs Capcom 3 and not killer instinct or MKX.
All fighting games feel mostly the same now.
Today combos is the only way to do decent damage in any fighter now.
It's the core element for today's game but back then it wasn't.
Sometimes I have to look at the box to make sure I was playing Marvel vs Capcom 3 and not killer instinct or MKX.
All fighting games feel mostly the same now.
petran79
Banned
I wouldnt recommend doing this with GG AC+ R though.
Instant deaths will be unavoidable in case the "shake stick" animation appears
Glitter and Gold
Banned
It sounds like you just want to play an action game. Devil May Cry is basically a one player fighting game that gives you stuff like that.
Fighting games at the end of the day are designed for PvP. Tutorials will be geared towards training you for PvP. The focus of the games is PvP.
If you want single player experiences and content there are other genres for that. If you have absolutely no interest at all in ever playing PvP I don't think fighting games are for you
100% agree. I'm in the same position as you.
I'm an adult. I have a career. I don't have time to play a fighter like I could as a teenager, I mean I can't spend 6+ hours daily in training mode. I don't have time to be stressed out by some online matches. I'd rather just play the game on my own time and just chill. An example is SFV, I'm Silver rank. As soon as I reached Silver? I stopped playing online because there's just no need for anymore Rank matches, I'd rather stay in Casual. Besides that though, I've become way more relaxed. Say I've got 6 hours of gaming I can do at night. I could spend those 6 hours in training mode or doing ranked matches...or I'd rather just do something else with a fighter. I'd personally rather knock out some Arcade Mode difficulties with a character and learn it based on my own time, my own speed.
If not that, something like Tekken's Ghost Mode. The mode is relaxed, very rewarding, I get money for it, just overall good. Same thing I did with MKX with it's Ladders. I can knock out some ladders, use that on Krypt, it's just more relaxed and fun for my current life.
I love fighters but I've transitioned gaming-wise. I'd like my fighters to do the same rather than damn near pushing me to go online like SFV did when it released.
Interesting comments, bolded is what I enjoy. I just don't have fun going online anymore and fighting people in fighters compared to a decade ago. I used to go online all the time with SF4, T6 but that was when I had nothing else to do. That's one reason why I loved Tekken's Ghost Mode. Bamco used the data from official players and programmed them into the game's AI and basically did an Endless Mode where you have a choice of 3 different opponents per win and depending on who it was, you'd fight a different AI, a "ghost" of a real life player except AI. Different difficulties, different strategies. It's fun. All the while you could rank up your character level offline while learning each character and all the while winning regards.
Now, just imagine that but with boss characters. That would be dope.
It's not impossible, would be pretty easy for Bamco to do. Idk about Capcom.
TheSpoiler
Member
How do all of today's games feel the same if they all of completely different combo systems?
Like what am I even reading?
I agree with that. I have no interest in PvP online mode but the most fun I've had in fighters is Soul Calibur with their extra modes.
I don't know how well received that stuff was by their respective 'hardcore' fanbase but the challenge board thing, character creator and little RTS type mode were the most fun things I've gotten out of a traditional fighting game outside of something like Smash.
Good online is vital for me.
Also, a fighting game should be fast to constantly throw me into the gameplay (I'm looking at you SFV for those ridiculous load times).
GG Revelator has a great overall package, but their business model is anticuated and the online experience could be better.
Also, a fighting game should be fast to constantly throw me into the gameplay (I'm looking at you SFV for those ridiculous load times).
GG Revelator has a great overall package, but their business model is anticuated and the online experience could be better.
Tavernacle12
Member
-Fights based more on tactics than memorising all of the move and combo inputs
-Arcade/Storymode
-Online where it at least attempts to match based on skill
-In depth stat tracker
-Smash Bros esque challenge mode and unlocks led
-Appealing character design
-Arcade/Storymode
-Online where it at least attempts to match based on skill
-In depth stat tracker
-Smash Bros esque challenge mode and unlocks led
-Appealing character design
TheSpoiler
Member
I think progression is a big thing. Like, let people see that they've been working and give them something for it. That's not even just for casual gamers too. VF4's quest system was great. SFA3's world tour mode was awesome. KI is REALLY great about their progression.
It doesn't even have to be items. It can just be something simple. If the survival mode in SFV wasn't booty, had checkpoints or better selections and better AI with a better progression route, that shit could have been fun. Earn FM, maybe even place a bet to see how far you think you can get.
Arcade modes are important for that very reason. People want to see that they are improving, even if it's against the AI. SFV, as much as I love it, offers no such format beyond spread out FM challenges that most casual gamers don't want to access. And that's fine for them to want that.
Let your players know they are doing better . It might be some carrot on a stick shit but that keeps people playing for longer, and most of them are having fun doing it.
It doesn't even have to be items. It can just be something simple. If the survival mode in SFV wasn't booty, had checkpoints or better selections and better AI with a better progression route, that shit could have been fun. Earn FM, maybe even place a bet to see how far you think you can get.
Arcade modes are important for that very reason. People want to see that they are improving, even if it's against the AI. SFV, as much as I love it, offers no such format beyond spread out FM challenges that most casual gamers don't want to access. And that's fine for them to want that.
Let your players know they are doing better . It might be some carrot on a stick shit but that keeps people playing for longer, and most of them are having fun doing it.
Actually, it sounds like he'd enjoy Tekken's Ghost Mode except with bosses and more unlockables in the middle of it. That seems pretty easy to do. Ghost Mode uses the AI of official players and lets you go through an "Endless Mode" just knocking them out, picking your opponents, getting money, just overall doing that non-stop. You can change the difficulty and be good. It sounds like is basically that except better AI, more tutorials in the beginning of it embedded with an actual story if possible if not separate.
I'd say Bamco can pull that off. They've pretty much done it.
Now what I'm thinking about is if they could somehow use official player data online and throw that into a next-gen Ghost Mode. You wouldn't have to go online, you'd stay offline but the people you fight in that mode are similar to real players. I mean, sure they're not real players but that's not to say they wouldn't do the same moves, combos and sorta-starts except with an AI perspective.
Would be pretty interest for people. It would basically be an Endless Mode except offline.
Plumpbiscuit
Member
Single-player focused content such as a tournament mode (from the older Tekkens), a beat-em-up mode (from the PS2 MK games), "quest" mode (from Virtua Fighter) and/or a new game entirely like Chronicles of the Sword (SCIII). Lots of in-game earned unlockables, varied characters with customisation, a decent tutorial for each character and 4-way movement. Finally, the fighting itself shouldn't be combo-based but more input-based like in Soul Calibur because I ain't got time to learn hundreds of moves for every fucking character, per game. I think that does it for the essentials.
Extras would be more stages with destructible environments, character creator and a diverse cast of characters.
Extras would be more stages with destructible environments, character creator and a diverse cast of characters.
Rhazer Fusion
Member
Exactly. The vast majority of casuals do not play fighting games, at least not for an extensive period of time. Of course the few that do play them need fighting games as well as the next guy, but developers really need to stop chasing after them because they are not the individuals supporting the game for the long term generally. Honestly, all of these tutorials and training tools are a waste of time unless the causals are willing to commit to the game and properly learn the mechanics which most of the time they do not have the patience or skills for.
It's comical how everyone and their mothers think SF5 is the worst game ever made yet the majority of gamers flock to it while the other fighters that supposedly have the content that they desire and are rarely touched or played by anyone.
Coffee Dog
Banned
The fact that there are so many people in this thread complaining about execution/combos shows how fucking horrible fighting game tutorials are at actually teaching anything.
If the character's moves and play styles are designed around those inputs, and the entire gameplay framework is based around framedata/hit confirming/combos, why are the correlations between those mechanics and the player's inputs not more apparent?
Basically, why do fighting games teach you specific combo lists instead of teaching how to make combos?
If the character's moves and play styles are designed around those inputs, and the entire gameplay framework is based around framedata/hit confirming/combos, why are the correlations between those mechanics and the player's inputs not more apparent?
Basically, why do fighting games teach you specific combo lists instead of teaching how to make combos?
Rhazer Fusion
Member
I hear that a lot and I disagree. There is nothing wrong with playing causally or having fun offline against the computer. Not everyone wants to play high level gamers who study frame data and practice their technique 24/7 online and prefer to play some relaxing matches where they can experiment or just have fun against the computer. People play games for different reasons. I am not heavily into multiplayer online shooters for example, but I typically do prefer a good single player campaign in a FPS over playing with some merciless, near professional gamers online who know the game inside out.
