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[Crossing Eden]

Easily explained: the Empire's hubris.

We're talking about an empire filled with grown adults making insane design decisions presumably to get this thing working, I don't think hubris would be a factor in that compared to the explanation in RO.

 

[The Bookerman]

It added nothing except muddling the introduction of leia in ANH. Movie was completely bland.

Had anything else to add to the thread?

No?

 

[phanphare]

Hate to agree here. The prequel trilogy is terrible but revels in its absurdity, it's the trash fire you can't stop staring at. R1 is just wooden and dull the entire film. Once was more than enough for me to ever sit through. Really shocked that so many have fallen in love with it actually.

I think it'll lose its luster as time goes on. it had some stuff in it that'll please instantly but was pretty hollow overall.

 

[MrToughPants]

This opinion is garbage. Rogue was decent, but story was NOT interesting at all. The films purpose was clear, but I feel that they could have been more creative with coming up with a plot for the film. There weren't many characters you could care for because of the lack of development, the minimal dialogue they had, or because the overall flat performances. The standouts for me were some of the actions scenes, the humor provided by the droid, and Vader scenes.

Opinions!

Rogue One was original and actually added to the SW story line... TFA had no creativity and it was same rehashed shit from the originals. The droid was C3 and R2 combined while the first Vader scene at his lava tower was one of the worst parts of the movie. Drive and Mad Max had little dialogue yet are praised to the heavens.

Nostalgia can be blinding.

 

[munchie64]

To claim that this movie was good is not an affront to film so much as it is as affront to storytelling.

Thinking like this is an affront to critical discussion.

 

[hamchan]

I think it'll lose its luster as time goes on. it had some stuff in it that'll please instantly but was pretty hollow overall.

We talking about Rogue One or TFA here? Lol

 

[Forkball]

In ANH wasn't the weak point just an exhaust port? It makes sense that it would be left uncovered since its entire function is to expel waste. Not to mention it was the size of a basketball hoop, hidden in a trench. Couldn't Erso have made a far easier weak point if he wanted to help the rebels? Like a password that forces the Death Star to self destruct?

PLOT HOLE

 

[phanphare]

We talking about Rogue One or TFA here? Lol

rogue one

feel like tfa only gets better with repeat viewings. compelling new characters and all that jazz.

 

[zeemumu]

They also own ESPN but nobody complains to Disney when a production of Monday Night Football has technical issues.

I'll complain once the play by plays start using that magic wand that people use to draw the mouse on disney channel.


The movie wasn't the greatest thing in the history of Star Wars, but it definitely wasn't bad. I had a lot of fun and I'm glad that they found a way to explain the Death Star's poor design choices.

 

[Foggy]

I think it'll lose its luster as time goes on. it had some stuff in it that'll please instantly but was pretty hollow overall.

Star Wars has really become a micro-genre unto itself. Most of what I love about R1 is in direct relation to the other films. Which is fine and totally commendable, but it does leave itself open to losing its shine over a period of time. Similar to the intense afterglow of TFA and its subsequent backlash.

 

[Dorsal Axe]

Having seen Rogue One, I went back and watched ANH and then TFA (basically the same film, right?) for the first time since I saw it in the cinema.

Rogue One does indeed seem to enhance ANH in a weird way. There's a greater sense of urgency and desperation than before, and of course Rouge One managed to explain why the Death Star has such a massive flaw, and why the rebel forces are so small, so these aspects aren't bothersome anymore. The Empire feels more menacing, having seen their show of power on Jedha and Scarif.

As for TFA, holy shit this film is way worse than I remembered. Was it always so cheesy? The constant jokes and one liners worked the first time around in a cinema full of people, but it feels pretty off watching at home. I feel like the only reason the film is as highly regarded as it is is simply because it's not as bad as the prequels. Really did not enjoy it the second time round, sadly.

 

[MrToughPants]

As for TFA, holy shit this film is way worse than I remembered. Was it always so cheesy? The constant jokes and one liners worked the first time around in a cinema full of people, but it feels pretty off watching at home. I feel like the only reason the film is as highly regarded as it is is simply because it's not as bad as the prequels. Really did not enjoy it the second time round, sadly.

TFA was a nostalgia boner fest.

"Chewy we're home"

 

[UnemployedVillain]

rogue one

feel like tfa only gets better with repeat viewings. compelling new characters and all that jazz.

Lol, well agree to strongly disagree. On repeated views I find myself getting even more annoyed by how Finn, despite being a cool dude, is embarrassingly incompetent and unskilled at all forms of combat despite being trained from childhood

 

[Garrett Hawke]

I have to disagree. If anything it adds more to her introduction in ANH, and even more to Vader's certainty that the plans are on the Tantive IV.

But even still, at the beginning of ANH the Senate is still intact so without actual proof that Leia is a traitor he can do no more than simply detain her.



You cannot be serious...

I was being sarcastic, yes

 

[Mass Appeal]

Completely agree OP.



Rogue One and TFA were both awesome movies. Loved them both.

Reading some of these negative responses are crazy to me. Especially the ones about the prequals being better!? Are you people high!?

 

[Vampirolol]

Rogue One is easily the best prequel, but IV, V, VI, VII are on another league.

 

[rekameohs]

Opinions!

Rogue One was original and actually added to the SW story line... TFA had no creativity and it was same rehashed shit from the originals. The droid was C3 and R2 combined while the first Vader scene at his lava tower was one of the worst parts of the movie. Drive and Mad Max had little dialogue yet are praised to the heavens.

Nostalgia can be blinding.

No creativity? The villain of Rogue One was literally a computer generated version of a past one, while TFA has probably the character that undergoes the most development over the course of a single movie in the whole series.

 

[phanphare]

Star Wars has really become a micro-genre unto itself. Most of what I love about R1 is in direct relation to the other films. Which is fine and totally commendable, but it does leave itself open to losing its shine over a period of time. Similar to the intense afterglow of TFA and its subsequent backlash.

see I think tfa has only gotten better with repeat viewings, but that's just me. I'm not trying to handwave this criticism but the new hope parallels didn't bother me at all because the movie introduced new compelling characters that I cared about. rey especially is a great addition to the star wars universe and I look forward to seeing her story continued.

Lol, well agree to strongly disagree. On repeated views I find myself getting even more annoyed by how Finn, despite being a cool dude, is embarrassingly incompetent and unskilled at all forms of combat despite being trained from childhood

yeah that didn't really bother me. finn was just one of many storm troopers. he gets rekt by a dude that looks clearly superior to him (that storm trooper with the staff thingy) and kylo ren. I mean, is every storm trooper supposed to be the cream of the crop, combat wise?

 

[BlueTsunami]

One of the best films ever made.

Yep, it topped Barry Lyndon for me

 

[HiredN00bs]

Thinking like this is an affront to critical discussion.

Sorry, did you you want to present a critical analysis of why Rogue One was good storytelling? Did you want to provide examples for the relationships between the protagonist and her two father figures? Did any of the characters form believable bonds with each other? Did any of the characters go through a believable or well-expounded arc?

 

[smokeymicpot]

It was a decent movie. Doesn't improve anything though. If they didn't throw in fan service and the first hour or so wasn't such a drag the movie would have been so much better. I honestly didn't care for any of the characters.

 

[ginger ninja]

The hottest of hot takes.

Rogue one was a one time watch. You can literally not watch it and pretend like it never happened.

 

[zethren]

I was being sarcastic, yes

Hard to tell, these days!
But I'm glad to hear it was sarcasm haha. Apologies.

 

[whatsinaname]

Some of the dialogue and dialogue pacing in the first 30 mins was very very awkward, bordering on cringe worthy at times. Like someone forgot their lines and got shown cue cards from behind the curtains.

Shades of grey? Was that just a bunch of guys on the runway telling us that they had all done terrible things?

The ret-con was cool, but I wouldn't really have cared if it existed or not. It connected up rather well though.

Vader's bit in the end was very very well done.

They should have just made the movie from the temple guardians' perspective. Make it a story of their survivor's guilt and their quest for a final glory.

 

[Foggy]

see I think tfa has only gotten better with repeat viewings, but that's just me. I'm not trying to handwave this criticism but the new hope parallels didn't bother me at all because the movie introduced new compelling characters that I cared about. rey especially is a great addition to the star wars universe and I look forward to seeing her story continued.

Yeah I won't begrudge that. It all comes down to what you want out of a given film. I'm more talking about the response at large.

Rey's definitely the best addition and Finn could have been if they gave him a better arc. He just came off as a dork. Even in regards to new characters, TFA suffers as a result of being so yoked to the original trilogy. I can't think of too many movies where the emotional climax of the film is divorced from the protagonists' perspective.

 

[liquidtmd]

"Well at least the Prequel trilogy was original" is perhaps the most hillarious, weakest argument I've ever seen on GAF.

And I was here for the Final Fantasy XIII console warz

 

[KingK]

TFA was a good nostalgic love letter to star wars fans. Certainly no masterpiece but a fun flick overall.

Rogue One on the other hand was certainly not on something like the prequel levels of bad but it was a mediocre movie and one i never intend to watch again. I seriously wonder how the people who like it will look back on it once the honeymoon phase wears off like with every Star Wars movie at this point.

There were plenty of people touting TFA as being one of the greatest movies ever made once it came out. However once the novelty of a new star wars movie wore off people started looking at it with a more critical viewpoint.

Eh, I was pretty damn disappointed with TFA immediately after I first saw it and wasn't understanding the praise. I was pleasantly surprised by how much I liked Rogue One and think it's my 3rd or 4th favorite movie in the series.

Also, I liked the characters. They could have used more development, but I feel like people are throwing around a lot of hyperbole here.

Having seen Rogue One, I went back and watched ANH and then TFA (basically the same film, right?) for the first time since I saw it in the cinema.

Rogue One does indeed seem to enhance ANH in a weird way. There's a greater sense of urgency and desperation than before, and of course Rouge One managed to explain why the Death Star has such a massive flaw, and why the rebel forces are so small, so these aspects aren't bothersome anymore. The Empire feels more menacing, having seen their show of power on Jedha and Scarif.

As for TFA, holy shit this film is way worse than I remembered. Was it always so cheesy? The constant jokes and one liners worked the first time around in a cinema full of people, but it feels pretty off watching at home. I feel like the only reason the film is as highly regarded as it is is simply because it's not as bad as the prequels. Really did not enjoy it the second time round, sadly.

Yeah, I actually liked TFA about the same on repeat viewing, but I was already pretty disappointed after the first time.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

Rogue One's four main achievements in my view are:

1) Providing a really excellent retcon that explains the Death Star's fatal weak point. It's logical and adds a poignant new layer to ANH. Now, the destruction of the Death Star is Galen Erso's vindication too. He sacrificed his last years for a worthy cause.

2) Giving the Rebellion shades of gray. The previous films painted them almost as wide-eyed do-gooders. The good guys. Rogue One shows their cutthroat, morally questionable, pragmatic side.

3) Showing the human cost of the Empire's brutal methods.

4) And the least of the four, but so satisfying, was showing a little sample of how Vader earned his fearsome reputation.

P.S. Didn't take long for the hate train to show up. Sorry you don't like thing.


Or nitpick fucking every big release of the year because nothing can ever be good enough.

Yes. Number 4 was my first comment out of the theater. None of the other movies were able to convey a truly terrifying Vader but that scene was amazing. Just raw anger and ruthlessness.

 

[phanphare]

Yeah I won't begrudge that. It all comes down to what you want out of a given film. I'm more talking about the response at large.

Rey's definitely the best addition and Finn could have been if they gave him a better arc. He just came off as a dork. Even in regards to new characters, TFA suffers as a result of being so yoked to the original trilogy. I can't think of too many movies where the emotional climax of the film is divorced from the protagonists' perspective.

what emotional climax? I would consider that rey using the force to pull the saber to her.

 

[Azerare]

I liked how Rogue one carried more of the star wars vibe compared to TFA. It's definitely has some flaws in actually fleshing out anyone besides Jyn.

 

[Nester99]

Yep, it topped Barry Lyndon for me

I did not think it was that good, but thank you for the reminder to rewatch Barry Lyndon.....to all that have not viewed this Kubrick masterpiece, reward yourself this holiday season.

 

[Knuckle Sandwich]

All it is to me is neat. It's neat that we got to see them steal the plans and the action was cool but the characters are boring as fuck with little backstory or reason to care about them. Maybe they tossed character development in the trash because of how it ends? Why bother doing anything with these characters since they're all gonna bite it i guess.

The only memorable bits to me are Vader and the shitty uncanny valley cgi Tarkin and Leia.

 

[notaskwid]

Should have had more Donnie Yen.

 

[Foggy]

what emotional climax? I would consider that rey using the force to pull the saber to her.

Han Solo dying is a pretty big moment for the film and series. To Rey and Finn, he's just a famous guy. It's definitely more of a profound moment than a force user doing what we were waiting for her to do.

 

[Eidan]

It added nothing except muddling the introduction of leia in ANH. Movie was completely bland.

It only muddled Leia's introduction if you're easily confused by additional information.

 

[Scrooged]

I can't believe the best they could think of was just Death Star v3.

To be fair, it's something the Empire would totally do. I mean they quickly started on v2 in ESB. They love blowing shit up from far away.

 

[reKon]

To claim that this movie was good is not an affront to film so much as it is as affront to storytelling.


It's mostly reactionary. People say things like it was the best film ever made and statements like that irk people who think critically about them. The production of this movie was outstanding and it had moments of action that were outstanding, but it never earned emotional connection to its characters, which is gravely disappointing for people who wanted it be an awesome movie. I feel like people who felt sad when characters in this movie die also felt sad when Wolverine's girlfriend dies in Origins. I simply don't understand why.

Damn, I don't even remember that from the Wolverine film. That's how forgettable that shitty film was.

 

[Savitar]

I quite enjoyed it, it was a different beast from the other SW movies, a bit more gritty though still not exactly gritty as most stuff is but compared to the other SW movies it was.

 

[zethren]

Should have had more Donnie Yen.

Cannot disagree with this! He was so enjoyable.

 

[DoctorFling]

It des not improve the original trilogy, they are as good as they ever were. That's like saying the Clone Wars show makes the prequels good, they're still shite films but they just have a pretty cool CG show kinda based on them.

 

[SapphiCine]

lmao

I'm living in a nightmare where Edwards' mediocrity is going to be considered essential to the series.

 

[Brazil]

It must be sad to be as jaded as some of you.

Film's amazing. The setpiece was the absolute best in the series, and the ending was breathtaking.

It objectively made ANH a better movie.

 

[rekameohs]

Han Solo dying is a pretty big moment for the film and series. To Rey and Finn, he's just a famous guy. It's definitely more of a profound moment than a force user doing what we were waiting for her to do.

Rey grabbing the lightsaber absolutely is the emotional climax of the film. We're following her from the beginning of the film and her realization of the Force is the entire premise of the film. It's literally the title.

Being emotionally connected to Han Solo's death works because, guess what? He's been a well written and performed character in this series. Rogue One could have used some characters like that before they all got killed.

 

[Mango Positive]

So weird seeing negative opinions of this movie. I walked out and immediately placed it in my top 2 Star Wars films.

 

[*Splinter]

It must be sad to be as jaded as some of you.

Film's amazing. The setpiece was the absolute best in the series, and the ending was breathtaking.

It objectively made ANH a better movie.

Reading this thread, I think the people that didn't enjoy this will never enjoy a new Star Wars movie. There's clearly too much baggage attached to the name.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

I did not think it was that good, but thank you for the reminder to rewatch Barry Lyndon.....to all that have not viewed this Kubrick masterpiece, reward yourself this holiday season.

Barry Lyndons problem is that it has really little CGI. It's not "dense" at all.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Christ no it's not. What a ridiculous notion. It's a bland, boring, husk of a film.

 

[Won]

Well, it makes TFA look even more embarrassing. Didn't think that was possible! /hyperbole


I actually think it puts the franchise in an awkward space. TFA and RO make it clear they would rather make movies with the OT setting, but that's a done deal and the movies are gonna be sillier and sillier chasing that gold standard.

 

[phanphare]

Han Solo dying is a pretty big moment for the film and series. To Rey and Finn, he's just a famous guy. It's definitely more of a profound moment than a force user doing what we were waiting for her to do.

well han did become a father-like figure to rey in their short time together so he was something more to her than just a famous guy

I definitely felt more emotion when rey pulled that saber though. han dying was an "oh shit" moment whereas rey pulling the saber was the culmination of her character arc for that film. definitely the emotional climax of the film. you'll remember that she freaked the fuck out after her vision and wanted nothing to do with that saber back at maz's place. plus the way that scene is framed. you see kylo ren trying to call for it, it budging a little bit, and then it comes out of the snow and goes flying right past ren's head to land in rey's hands. if there's a single moment to take away from tfa that's the one.

Rey grabbing the lightsaber absolutely is the emotional climax of the film. We're following her from the beginning of the film and her realization of the Force is the entire premise of the film. It's literally the title.

Being emotionally connected to Han Solo's death works because, guess what? He's been a well written and performed character in this series. Rogue One could have used some characters like that before they all got killed.

yep

 

[KingK]

Reading this thread, I think the people that didn't enjoy this will never enjoy a new Star Wars movie. There's clearly too much baggage attached to the name.

Idk about that. It's true for some people, but it seems to me a lot of the people that hate this movie loved TFA. Which is weird, because I really liked this movie and wasn't a big fan of TFA...