Paradox gonna Paradox. It's like forts in EU4 still not making sense to most people.
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Stellaris |OT| Imperium Universalis
- Thread starter More_Badass
- Start date
So I was looking through Steam in preparation for the usual sale, and it suggested Stellaris for me (You've played games tagged "Strategy" and "Space") and I kind of like what I see here. At least enough to get curious about it. But then I saw it's a Paradox Grand Strategy game, which have a reputation for being... thorough. Dense. With a learning curve reminiscent of a right angle. And that raises a few red flags, I'll admit. The most hardcore games of this kind I've played being the Civilization series and Galactic Civilizations II, as well as some scattered Total War games.
How hard is Stellaris to get into as a new player? Does it teach you what's what? Been trying to look over some new player guides, but they're either not all that easy to read or obsolete. Does the game have a good tutorial or a way for a new player to ease into things?
How hard is Stellaris to get into as a new player? Does it teach you what's what? Been trying to look over some new player guides, but they're either not all that easy to read or obsolete. Does the game have a good tutorial or a way for a new player to ease into things?
Stellaris is by far the easiest Paradox game to get into for new players. You start out with a small and simple setup and slowly expand unlike the other franchises where you start out as an already established empire. There's a tutorial explaining each new element as they're being introduced (you might have to wiki a few things to see how the systems relate to each other).
That's good to hear. From what I've been able to tell, there are many ways to play this game which is great for replays. From all out conqueror to pacifist and all in between. I kind of want to found a grand coalition of other people willing to go die for me. That's always fun.
How do you win, anyway? Or is that the wrong question?
It's also still quite half-baked compared to Paradox's other stuff. There's still fun to be had, but many elements feel like they could use additional depth. Then there's the normal Paradox stuff of the AI being wonky.
One Foul Note
Member
It's been a while since I looked into this so they might have patched a few new ways in. But at launch at least the only two victory methods were owning 40% of livable planets in the galaxy or vassalizing/destroying all other major empires in the game. That said, I've never 'won' a Stellaris game rather I just retire them once I feel my empire has reached a natural conclusion. And I know a few individuals who have played far more then me and most have never or rarely won a game too.
They added federation victory which requires you to have your federation own 50% of all colonization planets.
The victory conditions are kind of window dressing though. For grand strategy I usually play till I get bored and then start another campaign some time later.
EDIT: Sometimes I really wish someone would mush Aurora 4X, Distant Worlds and Stellaris into one polished(-ish) and detailed space game.
In the latest developer diary, they outline a new system they are adding in for 1.5. It's literally a copy and paste of Civ 5 social policy trees. No joke, its the same mechanic, systems and everything. Even comes with 7 treats, each has a starter bonus, 5 policies to buy and then a finisher bonus... ;-)
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...v-diary-55-unity-and-traditions.988693/page-7
Sounds like a lot of fun and an additional layer of complexity.
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...v-diary-55-unity-and-traditions.988693/page-7
Sounds like a lot of fun and an additional layer of complexity.
Which was a copy of the Civ 5 social policy stuff (this is a more direct copy however, it really is lifted from it. Even presentation wise it's the same format Civ 5 used).
All good though, definitely not a complaint from me!
I ran into 2 bugs/oddities today in a fight with a fallen empire and wondered if anyone else ran into them and if there was any way of preventing them in the future.
1. During the battle the ship my admiral was on was destroyed so he left the fight, and for a time the enemy admiral also was removed from the fleet (presumably his ship was destroyed) but then after a short while he was added back onto the fleet again. Is this a bug of some kind allowing computers to re-add admirals mid battle when they are not supposed to?
2. I won the battle (due to the enemy not having anything capable of hitting my corvettes) but in the warscore it was counted as a loss and there was no wreckage of their 190k fleet for my science ship to research. I can always use console commands to even up the warscore but the loss of their fleet to research really sucked. Is this common or does something specific trigger it? I noticed the after battle report had some of their casualties counted incorrectly (2 ships that joined later showed as not destroyed while in the main fleet their destruction was counted, ex. 178/176 and 0/2 destroyed), could that have caused it?
1. During the battle the ship my admiral was on was destroyed so he left the fight, and for a time the enemy admiral also was removed from the fleet (presumably his ship was destroyed) but then after a short while he was added back onto the fleet again. Is this a bug of some kind allowing computers to re-add admirals mid battle when they are not supposed to?
2. I won the battle (due to the enemy not having anything capable of hitting my corvettes) but in the warscore it was counted as a loss and there was no wreckage of their 190k fleet for my science ship to research. I can always use console commands to even up the warscore but the loss of their fleet to research really sucked. Is this common or does something specific trigger it? I noticed the after battle report had some of their casualties counted incorrectly (2 ships that joined later showed as not destroyed while in the main fleet their destruction was counted, ex. 178/176 and 0/2 destroyed), could that have caused it?
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/12/16/best-mods-of-2016/
Heh. Best Stellaris mod of 2016, baby!
Heh. Best Stellaris mod of 2016, baby!
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Great work!
exmachina64
Banned
You deserve it.
Thanks guys!
So I've been working on the event chains that form the core of the story we're putting in place (see here if you're interested in spoilers
)
One of the most enjoyable things about writing these is the freedom to elaborate on the "what might have been" aspects of many of the situations that crop up from episode to episode of the show. In particular I've always had a soft spot for the Animated Series episode "Jihad", and figured a scenario where the Skorr might be pushed to attempt to conquer the galaxy again would be a worth mid-game crisis.
So I've been working on the event chains that form the core of the story we're putting in place (see here if you're interested in spoilers
)One of the most enjoyable things about writing these is the freedom to elaborate on the "what might have been" aspects of many of the situations that crop up from episode to episode of the show. In particular I've always had a soft spot for the Animated Series episode "Jihad", and figured a scenario where the Skorr might be pushed to attempt to conquer the galaxy again would be a worth mid-game crisis.
It'll probably be in the Steam sale later this week
And the game is on sale, with 60% off the Nova Edition on Steam. Sneaky Paradox. That's only 50% off the normal basic edition price, but I guess they really didn't want to get under 19.99 but still wanted a bigger than 50% number.
Anyway, none of the DLC is on sale, but the only one I was curious about was Leviathans of those. Is that worth it or should I just try the main game out on its own? I doubt I'll make it far enough for that War in Heaven thing to even be an issue.
Anyway, none of the DLC is on sale, but the only one I was curious about was Leviathans of those. Is that worth it or should I just try the main game out on its own? I doubt I'll make it far enough for that War in Heaven thing to even be an issue.
You may as well try the main game without Leviathan and see if it's your thing. If not, money saved. If so, then you can always pick it up later or wait for the Spring sale where it'll presumably have a discount.
Probably best to just play the game some and see how you like it. If you do then Leviathans is a good little add on, especially for the additional soundtrack, which adds quite a bit to what is already my favorite OST in years.
Thanks. I've bought the Nova edition since that was cheapest. No Leviathan. 10 is worth two smaller games during sale season, so I'd rather do that.
Now I just have to figure out one thing... How to play the game. Any common newbie errors I should try to avoid? I heard missiles are a bad starting tech at the moment.
Now I just have to figure out one thing... How to play the game. Any common newbie errors I should try to avoid? I heard missiles are a bad starting tech at the moment.
Right now Kinetic is pretty good and probably the simplest. I would also start with warp for your FTL option for the same reasons. Turn on the option that prevents advanced start AI's from spawning near you. If you have played other 4X games there is a lot of the same philosophy, especially in the opener. In the early game try to expand and colonize new planets, there is a point where colonizing new planets is not as worth it but that is later on. Always try to colonize larger and better planets, but also planets that will push out your borders. The mining and science stations you can put around planets in your borders are almost more important than the planets themselves. There are early game events that will spawn enemies that attack you, but the game will give you a very small warning before they start.
Poodlestrike
Banned
I would note that planetary colonization sort of goes important->unimportant->important again. In the early mid game, you've frankly just got much more pressing calls for your resources, but later on you'll need the surface area for energy production; mining stations are NOT gonna supply enough to keep a fleet of battleships in service, not unless you've got massive borders or really really REALLY rich systems.
I started my first game, made some Fanatic Spiritualist / Individualist race with Warp and Kinetic weapons. I think this is a game I could get a lot of fun out of, but holy information overload, Batman. I think I get it, and credit where it's due, the tutorial is actually fairly patient with me. Unlike the one in Cities Skylines. At least the one in Stellaris doesn't assume I've done something before I've actually done it.
Got a pair of science ships doing the local rounds. Got my first colonization target picked out, but I don't hae the colonization tech yet. I think I may have to cancel the Alpha Aliens research for now. I'm just about to send my constructor out to build Mineral Stations in a neighbor system... and I get a nagging feeling that should be under escort. Not that I've found anything more hostile than space whales yet... still. If this was Civ, there'd be barbarians.
But to make Corvettes, I need minerals and to get minerals, I need to expand. Good old 4X dilemmas.
Got a pair of science ships doing the local rounds. Got my first colonization target picked out, but I don't hae the colonization tech yet. I think I may have to cancel the Alpha Aliens research for now. I'm just about to send my constructor out to build Mineral Stations in a neighbor system... and I get a nagging feeling that should be under escort. Not that I've found anything more hostile than space whales yet... still. If this was Civ, there'd be barbarians.
But to make Corvettes, I need minerals and to get minerals, I need to expand. Good old 4X dilemmas.
Very early game space monsters are pretty easy to avoid. If you warp into a system and see some you can usually get out unless you get really unlucky with your entry point. Aggressive ones don't tend to move systems too much, though, so your science and constructor ships can usually move about in peace if you scout ahead with your fleet. And it costs a lot of credits to have them out in space as opposed to stationed back at home, so try to get scouting done early or with just a handful of corvettes.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Your local constructors are pretty safe, generally speaking. They're set to automatically rabbit out of the system if something dangerous shows up, and in the early game, it generally won't.
Rule of thumb: If you see a research project for the neutral space squid(whales aliens it's not worth spending time on. There's no benefit to researching them. Don't attack them either because it makes every single one of them hostile which just makes things a pain.
As for corvettes, there's one early event that procs every time that you need to be prepared for(like if you have a fleet of about 175 you should be able to handle it), but beyond that and/or having an incredibly hostile civ on your border, you don't need to make a huge fleet in early game(I mean, there are systems to clear out that'd help, to be sure, but there's time for that later).
That being said, there are some early random events that will force you to funnel cash into fleet production if you want them done.
For colonization, you need to keep in mind that in the short term, colonies are a burden. When you get your colonies with sufficient populations they become a boon, but the instant you colonize a new planet all your research takes +10% longer and you won't be getting many resources out of the deal. Not to mention the cost of setting up stations in the new territory. Also, in order to get the most out of a planet for naval capacity, you have to build a space port, which is even more money in the hole.
If you weren't a spiritualist I'd say robots would be your best bet in getting colonies functional fast and if you weren't individualist I'd say forcible resettlement would be the fastest way. Or slaves. Your choice of ethics makes your pops hate both so...
I like playing diplomat in these kinds of games. Horrible murder and conquest is for when I know how to actually build an army. Good diplomacy means not having to fight as much. Great diplomacy means getting someone else to fight for you.
When you say a fleet of 175, you're talking fighting strength, as that is what I assume that number is, and not the actual amount of corvettes, right? Because I have... four. Building 171 corvettes seems a bit overkill.
I'll play some other empire later. I didn't know Spiritualist locked me out of robots, but then again, I do see them as someone who'd react... poorly to the question "Does this unit have a soul?" But I think I'll go for this one so far. The first game in 4X games is never really to win. It's to learn the UI and the mechanics. Winning comes later.
When you say a fleet of 175, you're talking fighting strength, as that is what I assume that number is, and not the actual amount of corvettes, right? Because I have... four. Building 171 corvettes seems a bit overkill.
I'll play some other empire later. I didn't know Spiritualist locked me out of robots, but then again, I do see them as someone who'd react... poorly to the question "Does this unit have a soul?" But I think I'll go for this one so far. The first game in 4X games is never really to win. It's to learn the UI and the mechanics. Winning comes later.
super-famicom
Member
Correct. You'll hit that 175 strength with like five or six corvettes.
Well, if you go deep enough into the robots, you can get synths... which can lead to a machine rebellion.
I'm running a collectivist/spiritualist civ to
I wouldn't worry too much. Spiritualists are good expanders because they're less likely to ethics diverge, which means your pops are less likely to become non-spiritualist and hate your guts. Not to mention the individualist ethic gives you a bunch of techs for happiness of your pops.
Slaves and/or forced resettlement can more than make up for robots as well, but your individualist ethic makes that difficult so...
Oh, that's right, there's a migration edict that you can place on a planet to make a bunch of citizens want to move there. I suggest you use that edict on new planets to get them going fast.
And yeah, meant 175 fleet strength.
Well, if you go deep enough into the robots, you can get synths... which can lead to a machine rebellion.
I'm running a collectivist/spiritualist civ tothe rest of the galaxy from heretical life forms. Should finish that some day...
Machine rebellions are pretty easy to get around. Just give the synths citizen right and leadership rights and they'll be quite happy with you.
The real problem comes up with materialist fallen empires trying to murder you for getting intelligent robots.
Well, I haven't had the opportunity for those yet, as I've banned AI in all my empires so far. Should run a Star Trek like empire at some point and try to get it. Would be a nice change of pace from the useless Swarm.
Played some more, surprisingly no other alien empires found yet. Except I know one of my neighbors is pretty advanced since his fleets have a K on their strengths. But there's plenty of room to go the other way. Also pirates appeared. And disappeared since my survey ship first met them near their base, then got chase right back to my 199 point fleet of corvettes. If the pirates had stayed near their base, I couldn't have taken them, but they chased. Bad plan.
So if I'm getting it right... Frontier Outposts are the main way to expand your claim. Stations are for harvesting and there's never a reason not to build them if you have the minerals. Colonization a more permanent stake. Still not entirely sure on what to do with planets. Specialize?
So far it feels like a solid 4X game, though I have little idea what's good to research. Probably diplomatic tech if my southern neighbor is advanced and hostile. Or shields. Speak softly, carry a big stick, and wear armor. Diplomacy.
So if I'm getting it right... Frontier Outposts are the main way to expand your claim. Stations are for harvesting and there's never a reason not to build them if you have the minerals. Colonization a more permanent stake. Still not entirely sure on what to do with planets. Specialize?
So far it feels like a solid 4X game, though I have little idea what's good to research. Probably diplomatic tech if my southern neighbor is advanced and hostile. Or shields. Speak softly, carry a big stick, and wear armor. Diplomacy.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Frontier outposts I would use sparingly; grab clusters of resource-rich systems, prevent neighbors from colonizing systems you have your eye on, that sort of thing, but be careful about it. Those suckers are expensive as hell for a good while.
Your early planets you don't want to overspecialize in. Unless they've got a dynamite bonus, just build whatever the relevant tile bonus is. Later on, you'll get the techs you need to colonize more hostile worlds, and THOSE you should feel free to turn into energy credit farms to feed your fleets, plus maybe a couple of research hubs.
Tbh, if your neighbor is hostile, there's not a *ton* you can do about it; try and make friends quickly with everybody else ASAP, but make sure not to neglect your combat trechs.
Yeah, try to use colonies to expand your borders. Outposts cost monthly influence so you can maintain only a few before getting into negative influence generation. I use them only to grab a promising cluster that I can't expand into yet or to block it from my neighbours.
You may want to balance researching your armor/weapons to counter the fleets of your neighbours, but it's not exactly necessary. Just keeping your stuff roughly on par with them will suffice, as long as you have enough ships. For example, point defence is really only useful against missiles (and later vs carriers), but useless against anything else. But PD will roflstomp a missile based fleet.
You may want to balance researching your armor/weapons to counter the fleets of your neighbours, but it's not exactly necessary. Just keeping your stuff roughly on par with them will suffice, as long as you have enough ships. For example, point defence is really only useful against missiles (and later vs carriers), but useless against anything else. But PD will roflstomp a missile based fleet.
Stellaris was my first paradox game,I also played total war, civ, galatic civilizations and endless space. It was really easy to learn the basics of Stellaris eveb through there are a few weird mechanics that you might need to read a wiki to have it click. My only challenge was the mind set, most strategy games you play to win while in Stellaris you kinda role-play your empire. I only won once in Stellaris, most of the time I just play how my species should behave.
Played some more and it's getting interesting. Found out all my northern neighbors are Xenophiles and all into peace and federation building, making my all too happy to enter all kinds of defensive and "Yay teamwork!" deals with them.
My southern neighbor on the other hand is a bit of a jerk. He doesn't like me at all and is a good reason to build a grand fleet. He hasn't tried anything... yet, but he's hostile and keeps sending insults. Well he can suck on my mutual defensive pacts with the rest of the galactic arm. I almost want him to try. Give me a reason to bring a quarter of the galaxy bearing down on him.
Not entirely sure where to go next. There's a whole lot of habitable worlds nearby, but they're all red. My southern neighbor has an Eden world juuust outside his territory, though. I may grab that, knowing full well that he'd consider that an outright provocation. Which it is! It totally is! It'll be great!
Also, I found out what the dangerous fleets I met were. 1.1K pirate fleets. But they don't sem to be mobile, so I just avoid those stars. They're a nice buffer towards the south, anyway.
My southern neighbor on the other hand is a bit of a jerk. He doesn't like me at all and is a good reason to build a grand fleet. He hasn't tried anything... yet, but he's hostile and keeps sending insults. Well he can suck on my mutual defensive pacts with the rest of the galactic arm. I almost want him to try. Give me a reason to bring a quarter of the galaxy bearing down on him.
Not entirely sure where to go next. There's a whole lot of habitable worlds nearby, but they're all red. My southern neighbor has an Eden world juuust outside his territory, though. I may grab that, knowing full well that he'd consider that an outright provocation. Which it is! It totally is! It'll be great!
Also, I found out what the dangerous fleets I met were. 1.1K pirate fleets. But they don't sem to be mobile, so I just avoid those stars. They're a nice buffer towards the south, anyway.
The interstellar bugs are... bugged
And there were three other systems like that. No wonder they didn't expand their borders.
And there were three other systems like that. No wonder they didn't expand their borders.
Make the jerk neighbour your rival! It pisses them off and gives you extra influence monthly. And insult them every now and then, if they get pissed enough they might even attack you so you don't get the negatives from an offensive war + your pact gets dragged in.
Way ahead of you on that one. He made me a rival already. But that does give me an idea. Steal the Eden world and THEN insult him. "You didn't seem to be using this, so I took it." I want him to snap so my buddies can smack him down.
I should probably look up how to war. Casus belli and war goals and all that is foreign to me. I imagine my goal will be something like keeping that Eden world and maybe punch him in the face. At least "He attacked me!" is a pretty solid cassus belli.
I'm also thinking of leaving the 1.1K pirates alone for now. If there's a war, they'll make for a nice buffer zone.
We've released a standalone version of our Star Trek The Next Generation ship pack / portrait set / empire, if you want to play as the Federation without the Total part of the Total Conversion:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=826756057
Ignore the quick logo job - getting an update soon...
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=826756057
Ignore the quick logo job - getting an update soon...
Lister
Banned
We've released a standalone version of our Star Trek The Next Generation ship pack / portrait set / empire, if you want to play as the Federation without the Total part of the Total Conversion:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=826756057
Ignore the quick logo job - getting an update soon...
I think you misspelled consent in the legal disclaimer at the bottom
Looks awesome!
You don't need a casus belli in Stellaris. You can just go and say "I want that" and declare war. War Goals are what you want out of the war - the higher it is, the more you want with a max of 100 (or 99? never got that exact). You can "ask" for them to cede planets, for them to cleanse a planet (this is the same as purging) or to liberate a planet, which makes the liberated planet(s) a new empire with your ethos. Then if you're the friend making type, you can vassalize them or invite them into your federation or something. I just burn them. Then there's the other stuff, humiliation, open borders, ban on AI etc. There's only offensive war and defensive war and you get benefits or disadvantages based on your government type / ethics.
It would be easy to say that the combat boils down to whatever fleet number is bigger wins, but there's a bit more to it. Fleet composition plays a big part - battleships are great at nuking cruisers and other battleships but can't hit corvettes for example. Then there are the different weapon systems. Missiles are awful, torpedoes are very situational until you get energy torpedoes, lasers are kinda bad, kinetics are great, plasma is great. XL weapons are kinda bad. Point defences are only useful against missile and carrier empires.
And try to fight on your terms. Early game, space stations are a big hurdle to go through. Later, you can build FTL snares to drop the enemy fleet in the middle of your close range pack - which murders long range fleets. Or go full hog and build defence stations with offensive and/or defensive auras. You'll have a much better fighting chance if your enemy's firing rate is cut in half while your shield regen is boosted.
I see there's still a lot of technology I don't have. Right now Destroyers are the hot new thing and planet spacedocks are as powerful as an entire fleet. I think my basic idea is to steal that good planet from just outside his influence then put a spacedock or what they're called on it ASAP. That should make it difficult to take fast enough that I can't send in help.
Sounds pretty reasonable. You could also try using an Outpost to cut off some of his lines of expansion if it's within your budget. Try to maintain a 2:1 corvette:destroyer relationship for now, two ships for every upper tier ship is a good rule of thumb for fleet composition. For now, your destroyers are your heavy hitters as it were, so outfit them with large guns so they can pump in more damage to heavily armoured stuff, like space stations.
I'm having a bit of a rough time really getting into this. When it comes to strategy games like this, my experience is pretty much Civ IV and V. So starting this, I've no idea what to go with when picking traits or whatnot because I'm not sure how everything effects the Empire.
At the start I've just been splitting and shooting the corvettes across the different systems, while the science ships scan the systems around me so the construction ships can build on minerals. Then science ships can go after another planet like mine, which is followed by a frontier outpost if the planet is good enough. That's about all I've got.
My corvettes have gotten wiped out so I built new ones to replace them. Other than that, I'm not really sure where I'm going here.
I've tried looking for some players' favorite builds or a good guide on how to really get into this, but everything is before Patch 1.3, which seems to have changed a lot. I also have Leviathans which narrows the search even more.
At the start I've just been splitting and shooting the corvettes across the different systems, while the science ships scan the systems around me so the construction ships can build on minerals. Then science ships can go after another planet like mine, which is followed by a frontier outpost if the planet is good enough. That's about all I've got.
My corvettes have gotten wiped out so I built new ones to replace them. Other than that, I'm not really sure where I'm going here.
I've tried looking for some players' favorite builds or a good guide on how to really get into this, but everything is before Patch 1.3, which seems to have changed a lot. I also have Leviathans which narrows the search even more.
You're going along the right route. Just keep going, I guess. You might've wound up in a weirdly underpopulated sector of space. Settle some new planets, keep researching/exploring/building and you'll contact other AI sooner than later. Then it's up to who you want to ally with, what you options are to expand or consolidate your alliance, etc.
There's a pretty major update looming, as there always is with Paradox games, but it doesn't seem like for several months maybe.
I think my biggest issue is the lack of power I'm feeling. Any ships I run into make mine look like ants, and while I haven't researched communications with anyone yet, a past game where I followed the same route ended with me surrounded by many who were better than me, despite the "no advanced empires near me" option. I'm just not sure when or if I should be building an army, alongside what optimal research options are.