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[Tal Shiar Agent]

Because it fucks with A New Hope and creates incongruities in the story?

No it doesn't.

Tarkin says in ANH "Since you are reluctant to provide us with the location of the Rebel base, I have chosen to test this station's destructive power on your home planet of Alderaan."


Sure that statement could be interpreted that Alderaan was the first time the Death Star was fired, but it could also be interpreted that Alderaan was the first time it was fired at full strength.

 

[Theslammer]

No it doesn't.

Tarkin says in ANH "Since you are reluctant to provide us with the location of the Rebel base, I have chosen to test this station's destructive power on your home planet of Alderaan."


Sure that statement could be interpreted that Alderaan was the first time the Death Star was fired, but it could also be interpreted that Alderaan was the first time it was fired at full strength.

Yeah, I thought it was clear in Rogue One that these weren't full-power shots and more test shots.

 

[Neoxon]

Yeah, I thought it was clear in Rogue One that these weren't full-power shots and more test shots.

They did make that clear. The test shots done in Rogue One's Death Star were only using a fraction of the Death Star's power.

 

[mckmas8808]

Worst Star Wars movie and I hated the PT.

How is this even possible to think?

 

[Psychoward]

Because it fucks with A New Hope and creates incongruities in the story?

No it doesn't. Name a single thing it fucks up.

 

[Boney]

Only because we see the noble sacrifice of red 5.

But the movie was a toss. First 15 minutes have awful editing and forest Whitaker as a whole was such a pointless part of the story that I feel is only there so they can make a movie out of him in 20 years.

It's funny there was the thread about Chekov's gun, where the movie waves the necklace pointlessly in front of you twice for nothing. Was a bit surprised we didn't see the Senate get abolished on screen but that's fine.

The action is a lot better than the average TFA was, and the Death Star is such a fantastic symbol with so much destructive power that makes the mega Death Star from TFA seem even MORE ridiculous after sitting through the movie.

Being above Jedi and FA isn't really that tall of an accomplishment. And this keeps the trend of dissapointing but serviceable movies.

 

[JB1981]

No it doesn't. Name a single thing it fucks up.

"This station is now the ultimate power in the universe. I suggest we use it."

"Lord Vader will provide the location of the rebel base by the time this station is operational."

 

[cyberheater]

It was an awesome movie. I'm really looking forward to playing this and ANH back to back on bluray at some point.

In fact. It's going to be episodes 3.5 all the way to 7 in a monster Star Wars marathon. Awesome.

 

[Cheebo]

"This station is now the ultimate power in the universe. I suggest we use it."

"Lord Vader will provide the location of the rebel base by the time this station is operational."

The station wasn't fully ever used before A New Hope. It's primary use was to blow up planets. Which never was tested until A New Hope.


It wasn't fully operational till A New Hope. The tests in rogue One were minor test runs.

 

[ebullientprism]

Yep. Second best SW film after TFA.

 

[scitek]

The last 5 minutes really make the fight between Vader and Obi-wan in ANH seem hilariously bad.

 

[Paskil]

I enjoyed it much more than TFA and I now want to go rewatch the original trilogy to build from it.

 

[Future PhaZe]

Do tell us what she thinks of ANH.

We did watch it recently, got to the point where Han and co reach Alderaan which is missing before I had to leave. She very much enjoyed what she saw and was surprised it was made in the 70's (although obviously noting the added CGI from the later editions). She pointed out Tarkin as having been from Rogue One and said "not him again!". She's completely confused about Star Wars beginning with Episode IV. "So Rogue One is Episode 3?". I didn't have the patience to explain it, but anyway, she has obvious preconceived notions about both Vader and Tarkin based off of Rogue One.

She instantly recognized Ponda Babba and Evanzan (walrus man and fukt face from mos eilsey). It was the same reaction all of us who saw the series had, "oh its those guys!", except in reverse. The chronology didn't change the effect at all.

Don't think she made any connection to Bail Organa being on Alderaan or the small bit about his Jedi friend at the end of Rogue One. She thinks 3PO is an asshole. She prefers K-2SO.

 

[prag16]

The station wasn't fully ever used before A New Hope. It's primary use was to blow up planets. Which never was tested until A New Hope.


It wasn't fully operational till A New Hope. The tests in rogue One were minor test runs.

"Single reactor ignition" or whatever they called it. Not sure how many reactors it would use for a "full strength" blast. But imo there's definitely more than enough room to hand wave that stuff. Claims that it "screws up ANH" are bs.

 

[LegendofLex]

A few things I enjoyed about Rogue One as an addition to the Star Wars canon:

- More realistic portrayal of the many extremes scrappy rebellions have going on in the background so they can be successful against an evil empire.

- Outside of the Death Star trench, this is the only film where we see suited Vader actually engage in a fight that isn't with one of the main characters. And it's nice that he's definitely portrayed as frighteningly powerful but not so gratuitously as we saw in the prequels. Nice contrast with ANH, where he's mostly there for exposition, and with the other two OT films, where he's mostly fixated on Luke.

- One thing that was pitifully covered in ANH was the Rebels' attitude toward the Death Star. We don't really get much of a sense of how desperate the mission to deliver the plans actually was from the scenes on Tantive IV. When it's finally actually used, our feelings are more with the fact that it's Leia's home planet that's destroyed than with how badly Leia wants to see the Death Star fall. By the time we reunite with them, there's a sense of tension with the clock ticking down to the Death Star being in firing range, but I didn't really feel much awe about how powerful the Death Star is. Rogue One gives us that fear.

 

[TheXbox]

My point is not to make a like-for-like comparison. I'm not sure where you're getting that from.

From your first post.

As many have said, ANH was a product of its time, and the thought of good guys fighting in a rebellion against an evil empire is as anachronistic as films like True Lies and Rambo 3. After 9-11, they're just a bit naive and on-the-nose. Rogue One gives ANH a little more context.

^ this one

More power to you if you're determined to dislike Rogue One

I love Rogue One.

movies like ANH, Rambo, and True Lies are ALL on the nose by today's standards.

This is what I really object to. You're doing a disservice to the creators of Star Wars and the audience who received it in 1977. They were not naive. They were not stupid. It's funny you mention Rambo, because I would say that the first film, First Blood, is a true contemporary to Star Wars. Films like First Blood, Chinatown, Apocalypse Now, Annie Hall, and Alien were all Star Wars' contemporaries. Those are some jaded-ass, post-Vietnam, post-Nixon, post-Kennedy assassination motion pictures, tinged with their own sort of progressivism. Star Wars shares a lot more in common with those movies than you're likely to give it credit, but as an escapist fantasy it was just as essential then as it is now.

Let me reiterate: George Lucas was not an idiot. His audience wasn't naive. Americans did not discover moral grey areas after 9/11. Rambo 3 is some Reagan-era bullshit and it flies in the face of what the original film represents; True Lies is closer to Episode I than Episode IV by some decades, and I find that comparison particularly bizarre. Those movies are not Star Wars' contemporaries. They come from different eras and represent altogether separate social climates.

Am I overreacting to your first post? Absolutely. I will usually accept any criticism of Star Wars. If you don't like the simplicity, the clean-cut factions, that's fine. But it's not naive, and it shares nothing in common with those films you mentioned.

 

[Mr. Mister]

Rambo First Blood is on the nose? Am I taking crazy pills? Easy to know who to ignore now.

Ohh never mind I see. It was a Rambo 3 & True Lies comparison for some reason. Blizzare and awful examples to pull but apologies on First Blood comparison misunderstanding.

 

[Seesaw15]

The last 5 minutes really make the fight between Vader and Obi-wan in ANH seem hilariously bad.

Lol, that's true. Maybe Vader was going easy on Ben because he was an old man.

 

[bishopcruz]

Yep. TFA is a masterclasses in writing acting and universe building when compared to R1.

I can't even...

 

[Starviper]

The last 5 minutes really make the fight between Vader and Obi-wan in ANH seem hilariously bad.

That's really the only thing that kinda breaks ANH in my eyes. Seeing Vader goin' hard on all those rebels and using all those moves, then he's moving like a real old dude in ANH. It leads directly into it so it's not like he'd suddenly aged or lost all that rage.

 

[Lebron]

Yep. TFA is a masterclasses in writing acting and universe building when compared to R1.


R1 is a child's play set come to life. I don't think that's a good thing either.

In one hour of R1, we basically see, what, 4-5 different locations? Learn about Jedi lore and visit an ancient temple. Get introduced to our first "force sensitive" user who isn't a Jedi. See how organized and vast the Empire was. Learn the real reason why the Death Star went boom so easily.

TFA had better universe building than that? lol okay there BB-8

 

[Theslammer]

We did watch it recently, got to the point where Han and co reach Alderaan which is missing before I had to leave. She very much enjoyed what she saw and was surprised it was made in the 70's (although obviously noting the added CGI from the later editions). She pointed out Tarkin as having been from Rogue One and said "not him again!". She's completely confused about Star Wars beginning with Episode IV. "So Rogue One is Episode 3?". I didn't have the patience to explain it, but anyway, she has obvious preconceived notions about both Vader and Tarkin based off of Rogue One.

She instantly recognized Ponda Babba and Evanzan (walrus man and fukt face from mos eilsey). It was the same reaction all of us who saw the series had, "oh its those guys!", except in reverse. The chronology didn't change the effect at all.

Don't think she made any connection to Bail Organa being on Alderaan or the small bit about his Jedi friend at the end of Rogue One. She thinks 3PO is an asshole. She prefers K-2SO.

That's awesome. I'm very glad she liked it coming off of a 2016 movie, but to hear how she reacted seeing "returning" characters was the most interesting part of this story. I take it seeing Vader gave her a reaction similar to Tarkin?

 

[Senoculum]

I can't even...

He's not wrong. TFA follows the blockbuster formula to a tee. The characters and their motivations are much more pronounced, and everyone was charismatic in the movie, including a droid that doesn't talk, including the villain who has a richer backstory. And add in those those sub villains and interesting world building and we got a Star Wars film for the ages. Rogue One did the one thing that's most criminal in these types of films: to be boring.

 

[LegalEagleMike]

Ehh I feel like the Vader Kenobi fight in ANH was not Vader going all out to destroy Kenobi from the start. He wanted to taunt him some and bask in his victory. At least that is my way of rationalizing that slow paced duel lol.

 

[smokeymicpot]

Ehh I feel like the Vader Kenobi fight in ANH was not Vader going all out to destroy Kenobi from the start. He wanted to taunt him some and bask in his victory. At least that is my way of rationalizing that slow paced duel lol.

Yeah Vader has some respect for Obi didn't want to actually beat him.

 

[Diatribe1974]

I didn't like the cgi version of Leia. Talking wasn't horrible though. James Earl Jones, while always my Vader, can be heard as a much older voice (duh) but still great.

Now, the moment I saw AT-ST's and AT-AT's, I actually kinda wanted the Empire to win and I'm an Alliance guy.

 

[Netherscourge]

It added nothing except muddling the introduction of leia in ANH. Movie was completely bland.

One of the best films ever made.

#NEOGAF.gif

 

[Shadybiz]

The station wasn't fully ever used before A New Hope. It's primary use was to blow up planets. Which never was tested until A New Hope.


It wasn't fully operational till A New Hope. The tests in rogue One were minor test runs.

Yeah agreed. I'm not sure about the first time they used it in R1, but the second time, they definitely said "use 1 reactor," or something along those lines. No idea how many reactors are actually there to be used, but it definitely made it seem as if they weren't going full force.

 

[Raptor]

R1 last part >>>>>>>>>>>> All TFA.

Straight up.

 

[bishopcruz]

He's not wrong. TFA follows the blockbuster formula to a tee. The characters and their motivations are much more pronounced, and everyone was charismatic in the movie, including a droid that doesn't talk, including the villain who has a richer backstory. And add in those those sub villains and interesting world building and we got a Star Wars film for the ages. Rogue One did the one thing that's most criminal in these types of films: to be boring.

TFA was paint by numbers. The characters have little to no depth save for Kylo, whose depth is all tell don't show. But honestly I was a lot more on the world building, it's AWFUL in TFA, with discount Tatooine, a National chain version of Mos Eisley, a Death Star retread, the Rebellion 2.0, and an Empire knockoff without the menace that was somehow even less competent. It was a well told, well directed movie, but it was all flash and absolutely no substance. The only reason it is better than the prequels is that the characters act like actual humans, not the humans that they would realistically be, but humans nonetheless.

Rogue One's world actually felt real, Jedha felt like it had history, felt like a place that existed before the movie, and every planet in the movie was far more interesting than anything in TFA bot visually and tonally. Say what you will about the shallow characterization, or the overuse of nostalgia, and I'll probably agree. But to say that TFA had better characters or world building is a joke.

 

[Noisy Ninj4]

This however still doesn't explain why Leia escaped in the Tantive IV and decided to stop by Tatooine first instead of heading straight back to Yavin IV to deliver the Death Star plans. It also leaves a rather huge plothole where the Alliance fleet wasn't ever seen fully assembled until ROTJ in the OT, where the hell was the fleet in ANH?

Going strait to Yavin IV would have given away the location of the rebel base since they have Vader hot on their heels. Tatooine is a nowhere backwater, so it wouldn't have raised suspicion.
As for the rebel fleet, I suspect they were used to evacuate the base if they weren't scattered already. Standing directly against a new superweapon directly with their remaining cruisers would've been a huge risk.

 

[HvySky]

R1 last part >>>>>>>>>>>> All TFA.

Straight up.

I really like TFA but I can get down with this.

 

[Mokujin]

Best movie since original trilogy.

But haters gonna hate, can't be helped.

 

[zoukka]

I thought the OP title was sarcastic.

TFA shits on Rogue One from great heights.

 

[bishopcruz]

I thought the OP title was sarcastic.

TFA shits on Rogue One from great heights.

TFA would have to reach great heights in order to shit on Rogue One from them.

 

[zoukka]

TFA would have to reach great heights in order to shit on Rogue One from them.

It's all relative to the distance. Rogue one is in pretty deep.

 

[Noisy Ninj4]

It's all relative to the distance. Rogue one is in pretty deep.

I wouldn't say it's *that* deep.

 

[zoukka]

I wouldn't say it's *that* deep.

It's not prequel deep, but not that far TBH. While it's not as offensively written and acted, it's just so goddamn forgettable and unnecessary.

 

[HiredN00bs]

TFA was paint by numbers. The characters have little to no depth save for Kylo, whose depth is all tell don't show. But honestly I was a lot more on the world building, it's AWFUL in TFA, with discount Tatooine, a National chain version of Mos Eisley, a Death Star retread, the Rebellion 2.0, and an Empire knockoff without the menace that was somehow even less competent. It was a well told, well directed movie, but it was all flash and absolutely no substance. The only reason it is better than the prequels is that the characters act like actual humans, not the humans that they would realistically be, but humans nonetheless.

Rogue One's world actually felt real, Jedha felt like it had history, felt like a place that existed before the movie, and every planet in the movie was far more interesting than anything in TFA bot visually and tonally. Say what you will about the shallow characterization, or the overuse of nostalgia, and I'll probably agree. But to say that TFA had better characters or world building is a joke.

EXCELLENT WORLD BUILDING
SUPERB PRODUCTION

And I guess we can have a story too, um, here.

 

[JB1981]

EXCELLENT WORLD BUILDING
SUPERB PRODUCTION

And I guess we can have a story too, um, here.

There was no story?

 

[Irnbru]

It's not prequel deep, but not that far TBH. While it's not as offensively written and acted, it's just so goddamn forgettable and unnecessary.

You're talking about TFA right? Becuase TFA was pretty much that.
Bishop's post is hammer meets nail.

 

[zoukka]

You're talking about TFA right? Becuase TFA was pretty much that.

Nah I cared for some of the characters in TFA and it felt like Star Wars. Rogue one only felt SW in the direct homage scenes. Rest of it was badly edited, grey forgettable whatever.

 

[Irnbru]

Nah I cared for some of the characters in TFA and it felt like Star Wars. Rogue one only felt SW in the direct homage scenes. Rest of it was badly edited, grey forgettable whatever.

TFA felt like a cheap Chinese Disneyland knockoff ride that tried to reproduce the feels of the original with almost carbon copies of everything. Rogue one felt like it actually belonged in the chronology in the way the clone wars does. It's not directly part of the mainline series but one of the many stories within it. I'd agree the first chunk is badly edited and could've used some more time in the oven, but as not feeling Star Wars, it felt so much more Star Wars than TFA did.

 

[HiredN00bs]

There was no story?

How do you get that from what I wrote? There may have been a plot, but there was not much of a story. The storytelling was mediocre, especially relative to what the film did well.

 

[Liberty4all]

TFA felt like a cheap Chinese Disneyland knockoff ride that tried to reproduce the feels of the original with almost carbon copies of everything. Rogue one felt like it actually belonged in the chronology in the way the clone wars does. It's not directly part of the mainline series but one of the many stories within it. I'd agree the first chunk is badly edited and could've used some more time in the oven, but as not feeling Star Wars, it felt so much more Star Wars than TFA did.

Agree 100 percent.

 

[Toparaman]

Rogue One isn't perfect, but it does make it a little easier to watch ANH. As many have said, ANH was a product of its time, and the thought of good guys fighting in a rebellion against an evil empire is as anachronistic as films like True Lies and Rambo 3. After 9-11, they're just a bit naive and on-the-nose. Rogue One gives ANH a little more context.

I get your point, but I think you're forgetting that the original Star Wars was created in the same era of films like Apocalypse Now, Taxi Driver, and The Godfather. Star Wars was created to get back to a more naive and on-the-nose era of film. Its black-and-white morality is very intentional and self-aware, even if it's not constantly winking at the camera like if it were made today. It was meant to be pure escapism.

I'm not entirely sure Rogue One muddying the original intent of Star Wars is something to be praised, though I suppose all is forgiven if Rogue One works as its own independent movie.

 

[Grenouille]

Man what a boring McMovie this was. Godzilla also bored me to death. Coincidence? I think not, no no.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Going strait to Yavin IV would have given away the location of the rebel base since they have Vader hot on their heels. Tatooine is a nowhere backwater, so it wouldn't have raised suspicion.
As for the rebel fleet, I suspect they were used to evacuate the base if they weren't scattered already. Standing directly against a new superweapon directly with their remaining cruisers would've been a huge risk.

It's well-established in the Star Wars universe that you can't follow another ship through hyperspace. Once the Tantive IV jumped, it was as good as gone. It could emerge from hyperspace anywhere in the galaxy. The only way to know where a ship is going through hyperspace if if you plant a tracking beacon on it before it jumps, or the other ship tells you where it's going and you jump to the same place.

They could have gone anywhere they wanted and Vader would not know where to follow.

 

[ronaldthump]

https://youtu.be/uJgfxlgUIZY

A lot of what he says about Rogue One makes sense. That whole thing about the death star... i mean, why do you even need to steal the plans?

Its a sorta convienience what happens in RO. Darth Vaders scene is really good, yes he was a killer and menacing AF. But in the trilogy, you just dont see that at all.

 

[Toxi]

The last 5 minutes really make the fight between Vader and Obi-wan in ANH seem hilariously bad.

It was always hilariously bad. Even at release, better sword fighting had appeared in other movies.

But it has always been okay because A. The dramatic context of the scene was good, and B. The rest of the movie was awesome.