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[SilverBullet]

Why do you guys say that the facial animations is "good for and openworld game"?

What does that have to do with the animation in cut scenes?

They don't use the same face/rig/animation when we are playing the game. Cut scenes cinematics use more robust rigs with more detailed animation. The fact that the game is open world has nothing to do with it.


The reason I find the facial animation not up to standard is because they are doing a lot of close up shots. When you do a close up in film is because you want to communicate deep though and emotion clearly. In CG (rendered or real time) if the facial tech and animation is not spot on then it doesn't work, falls apart and you got nothing to hold on to.

Side note: This is why Kojima did those extreme close ups on the DS trailers. He just wanted to show off

But anyway... Awesome trailer for what it's seems to be and awesome game. Looking forward to play this.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

christ that looks good

 

[jettpack]

Personally I love it as the combination of random pieces of left over tech, metals and other elements with the tribal aspect looks really cool and is not something we see very often as a lot of post apocalyptic games are much closer to the actual apocalypse.

I think the premise and the concept is good I just cant stand their execution. part of it is how squeaky clean all of those robot parts are. They look like bad costumes from a low budget movie. those character designs/costumes feels incredibly fake relative to the extreme level of fidelity they're rendered at.

 

[onemanasylum]

Does it matter? It's still all in-game. If they chose to add line options for you to choose it wouldn't change a thing.

Of course it matters..more dialog, more characters = more work, more animations.....

 

[StrongBlackVine]

I think the premise and the concept is good I just cant stand their execution. part of it is how squeaky clean all of those robot parts are. They look like bad costumes from a low budget movie. those character designs/costumes feels incredibly fake relative to the extreme level of fidelity they're rendered at.

I have no words. I'll just say that I'm glad that I am relatively easy to please.

 

[Jawbreaker]

You're right. My bad. I guess what I mean is that a lot of the design in that trailer contribute to the feeling of a believable world. Many of those character designs feel toy like in a world that is supposed to be grounded. They're execution on their "robot parts meets tribal dress" shtick feels really shallow to me i guess? The designs feel overwrought and ridiculous in a way that is not at all self-aware. I just don't buy into the world.

these are the ones i'm talking about in particular. Not the main character so much but all the other characters in these images. This is just a slice of what i'm talking about. im I crazy?

I think I understand what you mean. It's not crazy to dislike the aesthetic/designs they came up with for clothing. I personally think they're interesting, and it gels with the world because they hunt both real and mechanical creatures — hence the combination of materials. It aids believability to me. There are various tribes with different customs.

 

[MaKTaiL]

Of course it matters..more dialog, more characters = more work, more animations.....

I don't see how that would degrade the quality of the animations though. That's just extra recording of scenes they would have to do.

 

[Blackthorn]

Why do you guys say that the facial animations is "good for and openworld game"?

What does that have to do with the animation in cut scenes?

They don't use the same face/rig/animation when we are playing the game. Cut scenes cinematics use more robust rigs with more detailed animation. The fact that the game is open world has nothing to do with it.


The reason I find the facial animation not up to standard is because they are doing a lot of close up shots. When you do a close up in film is because you want to communicate deep though and emotion clearly. In CG (rendered or real time) if the facial tech and animation is not spot on then it doesn't work, falls apart and you got nothing to hold on to.

Side note: This is why Kojima did those extreme close ups on the DS trailers. He just wanted to show off

But anyway... Awesome trailer for what it's seems to be and awesome game. Looking forward to play this.

Time and money. A scripted, 20 hour game with a handful of major characters can focus their efforts. An open world game will have to make sacrifices, but if the story is scripted they can still focus on the quality of their cutscenes. In an open world RPG with dozens of characters and player driven interaction, the budget is tightened even further. Compromises have to be made somewhere.

This holds up fine compared to RPG contemporaries, and I would say better than Witcher 3, Dragon Age, Deus Ex or Fallout.

 

[onemanasylum]

I don't see how that would degrade the quality of the animations though. That's just extra work for developers.

?? You don't get having to animate 3-4 times as much is harder and unrealistic? You know they are a business right? Have timelines, budget restraints......

Rendering a few npc's like Infamousversus a lot like an rpg with long conversations is night and day

 

[TheFatMan]

Holy hell that was amazing. Such a larger world than I thought we would be seeing. That city looked amazing.

 

[MaKTaiL]

?? You don't get having to animate 3-4 times as much is harder and unrealistic? You know they are a business right? Have timelines, budget restraints......

Rendering a few npc's like Infamousversus a lot like an rpg with long conversations is night and day

Actually we are talking about Infamous, I totally forgot that the game had several choices throughout whether you played as a hero or villain. So they indeed had different dialog choices in the game and they did not degrade the quality of the animations. Extra recording would not affect it if they chose to add more lines. You talk about timelines, sure, they would probably delay the game for a few more months, that's the realistic part. But again, I don't get why the quality of the animations would be worse since the engine doesn't change in the process.

 

[Blackthorn]

Actually we are talking about Infamous, I totally forgot that the game had several choices throughout the game whether you played as a hero or villain. So they indeed had different dialog choices in the game and they did not degrade the quality of the animations. Extra recording would not affect it if they chose to add more lines. You talk about timelines, sure, they would probably delay the game for a few more months, that's the realistic part. But again, I don't get why the quality of the animations would be worse since the engine doesn't change in the process.

You realise people make the animations, right? People who are highly skilled with salaries who can only work so many hours in the day? Engines don't automate that.

 

[HStallion]

You realise people make the animations, right? People who are highly skilled with salaries who can only work so many hours in the day? Engines don't automate that.

Unless you're trying to get chewed out by Hayao Miyazaki.

 

[ronaldthump]

Clicked. And then realised. I'm buying this and I want to go in with fresh eyes.

Can't wait for Horizon. Yusss

 

[BradleyLove]

So, in this thread some folks don't know the difference between "plot" and "story"...

 

[Blackthorn]

Unless you're trying to get chewed out by Hayao Miyazaki.

I strongly feel that Horizon: Zero dawn is an insult to life itself.

 

[jayu26]

Does it matter? It's still all in-game. If they chose to add line options for you to choose it wouldn't change a thing.

Yes, very much so...

But I think there's a distinction between an open world RPG and and open world game, the dialog can often change in RPGs depending on your choices or what side quests you did or skipped.

In normal open world games you have five minutes of often pre-rendered cut scenes once in a while. Whereas, RPGs can have multiple dialogue heavy "cut-scenes" that don't have a single determined way of unfolding and can be 10 to 15 minutes long. At times you can even have 30 minutes long scenes if the NPC is spewing out lore.

I don't see how that would degrade the quality of the animations though. That's just extra recording of scenes they would have to do.

Actually, just recording is not enough. Devs have to still go in the touch up everything manually. That is why developers end up using lip-sync software in RPG, which is less actuate than hand animating.

 

[Teggy]

I wonder if the headgear changes are due to customized armor you find in the game or story related.

 

[stryke]

Not impressed by the voice acting and editing of the trailer seemed all over the place.

But so pretty...

 

[Jibbed]

I think I'll finally get a PS4 for this if it turns out as good as it looks.

 

[WordsintheWater]

Holy crap, this looked amazing, was debating pulling the trigger on the collectors edition, but I definitely will now, GCU and 40 dollars in rewards helps as well.

 

[SilverBullet]

Time and money. A scripted, 20 hour game with a handful of major characters can focus their efforts. An open world game will have to make sacrifices, but if the story is scripted they can still focus on the quality of their cutscenes. In an open world RPG with dozens of characters and player driven interaction, the budget is tightened even further. Compromises have to be made somewhere.

This holds up fine compared to RPG contemporaries, and I would say better than Witcher 3, Dragon Age, Deus Ex or Fallout.

Ah, ok. I understand that angle. I wish then, that they would give more resources to that part of the project. These games are pushed as cinematic experiences after all.

 

[MaKTaiL]

You realise people make the animations, right? People who are highly skilled with salaries who can only work so many hours in the day? Engines don't automate that.

You are basing the quality of animations on the exhaustion of game devs and their inability to maintain the same quality work for additional scenes. It's not like they would do 4x the amount of work on the same amount of time they had on the original game. The release date would probably be pushed forward to reflect that. Hell, they could even delay the game for an additional 2 years if they felt like they needed it. They would work on the new lines just like they worked on the original ones. That's what I'm trying to explain to you.

 

[boredandlazy]

Lip sync could be better, but it worked in that I'm more hyped than before.

 

[brunomartynhak]

ehh those facial animations ain't cutting it for me.

After Killzone Shadow Fall I was expecting it. The game looks gorgeous, but facial animations are meh.

 

[Bornstellar]

Lots of beautiful imagery, but that's a poorly cut trailer that doesn't know when to show less, not more.

 

[Jblanks]

Looks so good.

Please be good.

 

[LastMinuteHero]

So, in this thread some folks don't know the difference between "plot" and "story"...

You also have some dudes holding leaks based on a historically shady websites as gospel...

 

[Blackthorn]

Ah, ok. I understand that angle. I wish then, that they would give more resources to that part of the project. These games are pushed as cinematic experiences after all.

At this point all we can do is speculate about how well allocated their resources were. It's at least a huge leap from Deus Ex, which I'm currently playing. That has comedy level bad sip syncing.

You are basing the quality of animations on the exhaustion of game devs and their inability to maintain the same quality work for additional scenes. It's not like they would do 4x the amount of work on the same amount of time they had on the original game. The release date would probably be pushed forward to reflect that. They would work on the new lines just like they worked on the original ones. That's what I'm saying.

I'm basing it on the amount of money the studio has to spend on the project. When you say "release date pushed forward", that's months of the studio working at full capacity. That's not trivial.

An RPG with singleplayer standard character animation would be ludicrously expensive to make, and it's not going to be at the top of the list of budget priorities, nor should it be.

 

[Blam]

After Killzone Shadow Fall I was expecting it. The game looks gorgeous, but facial animations are meh.

Yeah, was gonna post this....something looks off about the animations in the cutscenes...sorta janky.

Hoping it ends up good though.

yeah hopefully.

 

[Primethius]

True.


Most games have really bad facial animation outside of cutscenes, regardless of genre.


Oh yea if we're talking about RPGs the closest point of comparison would be ME:A and Witcher 3.

Sorry, I should clarify. I meant like gameplay animations as in fighting, how NPCs generally animate (as oppose to facial animations in the gameplay context).There's a really huge gap in quality.

 

[Cloukyo]

She used to look like Andrew Garfield.

Now she doesn't look anything like him. I'm saddened that the novelty resemblance has ended.

Are american games afraid of creating attractive female characters? The appeal of your character from the onset should be their design. Male characters have the benefit of looking handsome, muscular, or "cool", but it seems whenever a female character is introduced the default design is straight to manjaw mc manly. It seems like strong women aren't allowed to be even vaguely attractive, they need to have masculine features to mirror supposedely masculine feats and traits.

Like, I get it, she's some tribal woman, she won't have time to trim her eyelashes or put on make up. But it's clear they've gone out of their way to fuck up the shape of her face to look like some sort of egg.

There's a reason why 2Bs design is getting so much attention while miss "random redhead you can find on the train on you way to work" is going unnoticed.

It's one of those things where you look at your character and you think... well fuck. I like this game but I don't want to draw fanart of that.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

So, in this thread some folks don't know the difference between "plot" and "story"...

Most people use the words interchangeably, that's not shocking.

 

[HStallion]

Are american games afraid of creating attractive female characters? The appeal of your character from the onset should be their design. Male characters have the benefit of looking handsome, muscular, or "cool", but it seems whenever a female character is introduced the default design is straight to manjaw mc manly. It seems like strong women aren't allowed to be even vaguely attractive, they need to have masculine features to mirror supposedely masculine feats and traits.

There's a reason why 2Bs design is getting so much attention while miss "random redhead you can find on the train on you way to work" is going unnoticed.

What? Most female characters often look like super models in a ton of games, 2B included. Aloy is a breath of fresh air if you ask me.

 

[PaulloDEC]

How can people say these animations/visuals doesnt look good. HOW

Every triple-A game thread reminds me how much lower my standards are than I thought they were. I don't think I'm blind to flaws, but I sure don't see them in the volume or severity other gaffers do.

 

[wild wild rice]

A nice 15 hour quest that stays interesting the whole time and I'm in.

 

[MrChowderClams]

Are american games afraid of creating attractive female characters?

Isn't GG based in europe? (edit: yeah, they're HQ is in Amsterdam). Also, Aloy looks fine. Don't see what your point is here heh.

Also, I don't think the animations are horrible, just, like others have said, it seems a bit meh.

 

[Jawbreaker]

Are american games afraid of creating attractive female characters? The appeal of your character from the onset should be their design. Male characters have the benefit of looking handsome, muscular, or "cool", but it seems whenever a female character is introduced the default design is straight to manjaw mc manly. It seems like strong women aren't allowed to be even vaguely attractive, they need to have masculine features to mirror supposedely masculine feats and traits.

Like, I get it, she's some tribal woman, she won't have time to trim her eyelashes or put on make up. But it's clear they've gone out of their way to fuck up the shape of her face to look like some sort of egg.

There's a reason why 2Bs design is getting so much attention while miss "random redhead you can find on the train on you way to work" is going unnoticed.

It's one of those things where you look at your character and you think... well fuck. I like this game but I don't want to draw fanart of that.

What the hell are you talking about? Aloy is a deviation from the norm, not the other way around. The majority of female game characters are "super model" attractive and/or sexualized in large part due to the male gaze. Furthermore, GG is not an American studio.

 

[HStallion]

What the hell are you talking about? Aloy is a deviation from the norm, not the other way around. The majority of female game characters are "super model" attractive and/or sexualized in large part due to the male gaze.

I almost suspect another joke post after the 2B "controversy" that Yoko Taro commented on.

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

Great trailer, and just looks fantastic every time I see it. It seems like it's going to have a decent story, with lots of interesting places to go and characters to meet. I almost keep forgetting this is an action RPG, not just a standard action adventure type game.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Are american games afraid of creating attractive female characters? The appeal of your character from the onset should be their design. Male characters have the benefit of looking handsome, muscular, or "cool", but it seems whenever a female character is introduced the default design is straight to manjaw mc manly. It seems like strong women aren't allowed to be even vaguely attractive, they need to have masculine features to mirror supposedely masculine feats and traits.

Like, I get it, she's some tribal woman, she won't have time to trim her eyelashes or put on make up. But it's clear they've gone out of their way to fuck up the shape of her face to look like some sort of egg.

There's a reason why 2Bs design is getting so much attention while miss "random redhead you can find on the train on you way to work" is going unnoticed.

It's one of those things where you look at your character and you think... well fuck. I like this game but I don't want to draw fanart of that.

Your joking right ?
One of the reasons why the game stand out was because aloy don't have a super attractive design .
She also don't have a body of a super model which are two things that most of the time happens .

EDIT this could be bait it hard to tell these days .

 

[Kenzodielocke]

Are american games afraid of creating attractive female characters? The appeal of your character from the onset should be their design. Male characters have the benefit of looking handsome, muscular, or "cool", but it seems whenever a female character is introduced the default design is straight to manjaw mc manly. It seems like strong women aren't allowed to be even vaguely attractive, they need to have masculine features to mirror supposedely masculine feats and traits.

Like, I get it, she's some tribal woman, she won't have time to trim her eyelashes or put on make up. But it's clear they've gone out of their way to fuck up the shape of her face to look like some sort of egg.

There's a reason why 2Bs design is getting so much attention while miss "random redhead you can find on the train on you way to work" is going unnoticed.

It's one of those things where you look at your character and you think... well fuck. I like this game but I don't want to draw fanart of that.

I am honestly triggered by this post. Please stop.

Edit: On second reading, thatsbait.gif

 

[mejin]

Are american games afraid of creating attractive female characters? The appeal of your character from the onset should be their design. Male characters have the benefit of looking handsome, muscular, or "cool", but it seems whenever a female character is introduced the default design is straight to manjaw mc manly. It seems like strong women aren't allowed to be even vaguely attractive, they need to have masculine features to mirror supposedely masculine feats and traits.

Like, I get it, she's some tribal woman, she won't have time to trim her eyelashes or put on make up. But it's clear they've gone out of their way to fuck up the shape of her face to look like some sort of egg.

There's a reason why 2Bs design is getting so much attention while miss "random redhead you can find on the train on you way to work" is going unnoticed.

It's one of those things where you look at your character and you think... well fuck. I like this game but I don't want to draw fanart of that.

jesus christ...

 

[Blackthorn]

Are american games afraid of creating attractive female characters? The appeal of your character from the onset should be their design. Male characters have the benefit of looking handsome, muscular, or "cool", but it seems whenever a female character is introduced the default design is straight to manjaw mc manly. It seems like strong women aren't allowed to be even vaguely attractive, they need to have masculine features to mirror supposedely masculine feats and traits.

Like, I get it, she's some tribal woman, she won't have time to trim her eyelashes or put on make up. But it's clear they've gone out of their way to fuck up the shape of her face to look like some sort of egg.

There's a reason why 2Bs design is getting so much attention while miss "random redhead you can find on the train on you way to work" is going unnoticed.

It's one of those things where you look at your character and you think... well fuck. I like this game but I don't want to draw fanart of that.

Don't worry, I hear if you angle the camera just right you can make out the subtle shade of Aloy's anus too.

 

[LastMinuteHero]

Hmm smells like bait..

 

[Jawbreaker]

I almost suspect another joke post after the 2B "controversy" that Yoko Taro commented on.

I hope so, though I'm usually able to suss these things out. It just doesn't sound like a joke going by some of the reactions after Aloy's initial reveal. If I got baited, ah well. : p

 

[Pilgrimzero]

What? Most female characters often look like super models in a ton of games, 2B included. Aloy is a breath of fresh air if you ask me.

I cant see her thighs or cleavage! WTH America?!?!

 

[Eppy Thatcher]

Are american games afraid of creating attractive female characters? The appeal of your character from the onset should be their design. Male characters have the benefit of looking handsome, muscular, or "cool", but it seems whenever a female character is introduced the default design is straight to manjaw mc manly. It seems like strong women aren't allowed to be even vaguely attractive, they need to have masculine features to mirror supposedely masculine feats and traits.

Like, I get it, she's some tribal woman, she won't have time to trim her eyelashes or put on make up. But it's clear they've gone out of their way to fuck up the shape of her face to look like some sort of egg.

There's a reason why 2Bs design is getting so much attention while miss "random redhead you can find on the train on you way to work" is going unnoticed.

It's one of those things where you look at your character and you think... well fuck. I like this game but I don't want to draw fanart of that.

Legit ridiculous. I'm hoping your lookin to rile people up because... uhg..

So hyped for this and I completely forgot that this drops next month! Like... godamn... snuck up on me.

 

[PaulloDEC]

Are american games afraid of creating attractive female characters? The appeal of your character from the onset should be their design. Male characters have the benefit of looking handsome, muscular, or "cool", but it seems whenever a female character is introduced the default design is straight to manjaw mc manly. It seems like strong women aren't allowed to be even vaguely attractive, they need to have masculine features to mirror supposedely masculine feats and traits.

Like, I get it, she's some tribal woman, she won't have time to trim her eyelashes or put on make up. But it's clear they've gone out of their way to fuck up the shape of her face to look like some sort of egg.

There's a reason why 2Bs design is getting so much attention while miss "random redhead you can find on the train on you way to work" is going unnoticed.

It's one of those things where you look at your character and you think... well fuck. I like this game but I don't want to draw fanart of that.

So you're saying that characters that look like sex dolls get more attention online than characters that look like real people?

I'm shocked.

Spoiler

Also I find Aloy to be super attractive and 2B to be a dumb cliche anime cartoon, so I dunno what you're on about.

EDIT: Sniffing out bait is too much work these days, I'm just going to assume everyone is being sincere all the time and take the hit later if necessary.

 

[CREMSteve]

this one is a perfect example of the facial animation not being too hot. it stands out especially BECAUSE of how impressive the models/textures/materials are

I think it looks fantastic. To each his/her own.